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It may just be me, but I get a general sense that most posters here (particularly parents) don't think very highly of public education.

Do you or do you not agree with public education? Do you have any specific issues with it? Would you send your children to a public school if you had any, or, if you do, do you/did you have them attend one?

Just curious, is all. For perspective, I'm finishing up my senior year at a public high school, and I've loved all four years here. I'm excited about college, but I know I'm going to miss this place when I leave for Duke next fall.

So... thoughts?

In my opinion, 'public' education is largely (not completely, but largely) indoctrination into the liberal-humanist politically correct platform.  As such, they have invaded the home in that they are attempting to teach their versions of morality.  Morality is better taught in the home.  
I want my daughter learning math, english, geography, science and history.  She doesn't need to know how to put a condom on a cucumber, and our Pastor and I will teach her true morals as God has given us in His written word.

Could you explain that a little more? What moral principles are being taught with which you don't agree?


I've never heard of anyone doing that in Health class. It strikes me as being strangely hilarious, if you want to know the truth, as well as more than a little odd.

How old is your daughter, and does she attend public school?

Neo - the following link will take you to a fairly good 'history' of public education.

http://www.libertyhaven.com/politicsandcurrentevents/educationhomeschoolingorchildren/failureamepublic.shtml (http://www.libertyhaven.com/politicsandcurrentevents/educationhomeschoolingorchildren/failureamepublic.shtml)

(FYI - My daughter is 17, a high school junior.)

Public, private, or home-schooled?

And out of curiosity, of all the kids that are home-schooled... how many, do you think, have parents that are even remotely qualified to teach high school-level courses? (Calculus, chemistry, physics, biology, English, foreign language, etc.)

 ;D  I was home schooled--in the sense that I'm a sixth grade graduate.   ;D  You may notice I depend heavily on spell check.   ;D  My home schooling actually involved me teaching myself, however, I didn't live with my parents--the lady I lived with had 20 other kids to raise so there was only time for hard questions when I was doing my self-teaching. I use lots of smiley icons because I feel that my ability to write how I feel and what I think doesn't accurately convey what I'm thinking.   ;)   However, I also don't think like everyone else.  I think it must be because I missed out on the public education indoctrination.  

When I was twenty three I passed the GED exam without studying.  I started at a junior college and now I've graduated from Time Magazine's Liberal Arts College of the year--hectic entrance requirements.  AND I'm smarter than the average bear  :P  That's a joke.  Actually, I'm not much smarter than he average American--but I am smarter than the average bear.   ;D   I feel that missing out on junior high and high school was actually to my advantage.  PRAISE GOD!!  As a child, I hated the school environment and actually woke up and thanked God for years and years that I didn't have to go to school.   ;D

So, I wouldn't worry about whether the parents are equipped to teach on certain topics.  When the kids grow up and need those topics taught to them to survive, they can seek out the experts.  In the mean time, they don't have to be sitting for hours and hours getting indoctrinated on the public school's idea of the meaning of life, when the answer is that we're all a cosmic accident.

P.S.  As long as there are tests, there will always be prayer in schools.   ;)

What evidence do you have for this?


Morality needs to be taught in both.
If it isn't taught at home, then schools can't completely make up for that.
If it's not taught at school then:
a:  there's no comonality of morals, and society isn't going to function very well
b:  (more importantly) those kids who aren't taught any moral standards at home (an increasing proportion it seems) are left without any moral framework
c:  kids need to be exposed to a decent moral framework (even if it's not exactly yours) all the time.  If they are going to be in school, then they are in a social environment and the what is and isn't appropriate will need to be talked about frequently.

More importantly she needs to learn how to think, how to learn, and how to interact in a social environment.

What evidence do you have that she would spend more than a miniscule about of time on this sort of thing?   And the fact is, a fair number of the kids do need to know how to put one on.   Indeed, she might for any number of possible medical reasons.

Clearly written by a columnist, not an educator - it doesn't even touch on what the purpose of public education is.  Until you do that, talking about how well it does or does not  achieve that is meaningless.

My husband and I were both public schooled.
Because of what we learned in public schools, we have chosen to homeschool for now.

As far as not being qualified to teach certain subjects.....
I didn't know how to potty train a child until I actually had to. We got through potty training between the ages of 2 and 3 so I think we can get through just about anything else.

Good teachers know how to find the information to teach the pupils in which they've been given.

If the public system has equiped you to homeschool competently, it's done pretty well.  If not, ....

Which show's how much you know.

If you are able to devote more time to learning to teach each topic than the kids need to spend learning it, then fine.  It's not about information, its about genuinely understanding the concepts, the process, how to teach those, and (maybe most of all) understanding what misconceptions are likely to arise, how to avoid them, diagnose and correct them.  Learning the content that you have to teach is the trivial bit.

Or it could be a matter of learning from the mistakes of public schooling.  ;)

*snorts*
The joy of learning something new along with your child is priceless! Wonderful for bonding and definitely shows your child that you're never too old to learn!  ;D


ebia,
Have you ever taught or attended public school in the US?
Have you ever homeschooled or been homeschooled?

Neo so you're headed to Duke?  Isn't that sorta like Tufts?  Several years ago at Tufts the oncampus Christian club was prohibited becuase it refused to allow gay leaders(I think this was later overturned, thanks to some hard work on some Christian attorneys' part, I think).

But it seems I've seen Duke mentioned in some similar type action; and they are a very secular school, as I recall hearing.

Perhaps that's to advantage though.  Like public school, you can take what you can use, and throw the rest away.  On young, impressionable minds though, that is difficult, if not impossible.

The homeschoolers I know commute with others to classes in the sciences, like in high school.  In some ways it's just duplicating what is offered in thehigh school.  But perhaps witha slightly different, um, "perspective"(and atmosphere  ::))

I'm undecided whether public school helps toughen you up for the game of life.

Nope, I would definitely steer clear of a public school.  Still, they're the ones who Christ came for.

I've been invited to a public school, and would expect invitations in the future.  But I think they pretty much know I'm going to tie any talk into Jesus Christ somewhere, and I'm guessing they'd get all embarrassed and start wringing their hands, I imagine.

This prohibition on speaking about Jesus Christ (except as an explitive-- ::)), is what gets me.  And I help pay their salaries.

    >:(
   

The public schools severly lacked in teaching many things. I grew up in the Bay Area, my husband grew up in rural MN.
History classes were ok, for the most part.
Goverment classes we learned to laugh at the right and were taught that the issues of the left were serious.
English classes, books like Judy Blume's Wifey (which is a book that condones extra marital affairs) were allowed for book reports.
Science taught the lies of evolution.
Math classes were ok.
Planned Parenthood came to our Health classes on a regular basis.

Which show's how much you know.
I know enough to know that I've been a mom for 18 years and I'm no where near an expert. Different children learn at different rates. I know my children better than any teacher who has to deal with 20-30 of them at a time.

If you are able to devote more time to learning to teach each topic than the kids need to spend learning it, then fine.  It's not about information, its about genuinely understanding the concepts, the process, how to teach those, and (maybe most of all) understanding what misconceptions are likely to arise, how to avoid them, diagnose and correct them.  Learning the content that you have to teach is the trivial bit.

Then you should do everything in your power to avoid the public schools, private schools, homeschools, etc.
My pastor's wife is a teacher. She went to school to be a music teacher. She teaches music and English, yet English wasn't one of her strong points in college. She does a lot of learning as she is teaching.

I've got a bachelors in Secondary Education... and my husband has his Masters. We've homeschooled our 10 year old daughter, Sarah since Pre-K! She's two years ahead of the public school.
If you're wanting to get "Biblical" about this then just READ the Bible! It says "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it." Do you ACTUALLY think a child will get the proper training in a Public Environment that will allow him to "not depart from it?" He'll get training alright... sure, the chemistry, biology, Calculus even physics... (worldly wisdom) but will it "train" him to live a godly, moral life?  ???  I'm not all that great at Math myself... but when it comes time for Trig we'll get a tutor!

To me, people who spew out "No Social Interaction" "Not suitable teaching material" Blah blah blah... to me that is a cop out! It is our RIGHT as parents to "train our children".

I went to public school when I was younger... (quite a while ago) and even THEN there was garbage that I wish I'd never seen... my father is a Baptist Minister and he started a Christian School through our church and I LOVED IT! I excelled in my studies and far surpassed the Public School System requirements for graduation.

I've also had others say "You're sheltering your daughter... do you think she'll not SEE *bad* things later on in her life?"  Oh yeah... let's ALL live by THIS principle! DUH! We are "equipping" our daughter to FACE these obstacles later on... she is not strong enough to ward off the "firy darts of the devil" by herself right now... and we, as godly, Christian parents, should not EXPECT that! If you think I'm talking about the Cirriculum then you're SORELY mistaken... there are some GREAT teachers in Public School with great teaching abilities... it's the peer pressure and the worldliness she'd have to face. YES, she has to face that even in our neighborhood... but we can help "control" that.

If you think we are 'controlling' then so be it. But I've SEEN what the public school system has done to many young "Christian" children and we REFUSE to allow that to happen to Sarah.

For what it's worth... *Public Schools* were a "tradition of man" that started in Ancient Greece for "boys!"

So, what is my "stand" about Public Education? Hmmmm... let's see...   :D  
Christian Education as in Christian Schools? I don't mind them... although I've seen SOME Christian Schools become glorified Public Schools.

For my husband and I, homeschooling is the BEST and most appropriate way to train our daughter... not just for the academics but for the Biblical training of raising "Godly seed" for His Glory.

I'm sure there ARE those who are not "appropriately trained" to teach their children at home... but I applaud and commend them for trying! We use School of Tomorrow Cirriculum and will start Saxon Math for Sarah's 5th grade year... and I'm QUITE pleased with the outcome!

 From His_Child   (You go girl!)

Lady Kay

P.S. As a side note: I think it was the year before last that at the National Spelling Bee HOMESCHOOLERS won first and second place...  ;) Hmmmm.... interesting!

Yes, I've seen local press on some homeschoolers succeeding at this competition or that competition.  And right in the page of the newspaper where typically it's the public school's event.

So it was good to see the homeschoolers excelling, doing well.  Plus, they have to carry a double burden--much of their annual property taxes go to support the public school, in addition to coming up with their own curriculum.

Our public schools are apparently pretty "tolerant" of like the gay thing, and I'm only waiting now for them to become dictatorial about it.  Public schools can sometimes be fairly bureaucratic and dictatorial.  I think I distrust them because of the bureaucratic aspect--people are just there to do "a job".  It's not a "love"--tho for younger teachers perhaps early on they have ideals.

But when I saw the publicity for the homeschoolers, all of a sudden I began to realize--hey, this thing can swing the other way too--which is one of the reasons secular education is wary sometimes of the homeschoolers, I'm thinking.  What if homeschoolers become so successful, they not only have superior acumen--which some obviously do or will, but they become the aggressor??

Just something that occurred to me.  

I think one of their familiar examples is like the Spanish Inquisition, where the church was the State.

Do you know what's staggering to me, Symphany? I read a statistic that stated 80% of Federal employees children attended: academically. What does it say when the government wants private or homeschool/tutors? Sure, there's security reasons, I'm sure... but it IS a thought, is it not?

Doesn't matter - as long as one learns, the system is successful.

Absolutely, school teachers learn from and alongside their classes too, but if one expects one's children to spend, say 20 hours a week learning, then that leaves you to spend, say, 30 hours a week learning.  Plus whatever other learning you may need to do in your life.  If you can afford that, unpaid, that's quite a luxury.


No - I teach in a Catholic school in Australia, and I've taught in public schools here.

I accept that US public schools have far from a great reputation internationally, but generally not for any of the reasons listed in this thread.

No, but I've friends who do.

Have you ever been a professional school teacher, or trained as such?

Hopefully things have moved on.  The early days of "citizenship" as a subject idea were pretty flaky, but I dare say the same was true when science, say, was first taught in schools.


Allowed, or you were forced to read and agree with it?

Whether you agree with it's conclusions or not, evolution is good science, and must be taught as such.  Anyone who doens't understand why it's good science certainly isn't qualified to teach science to anyone.


Pleased to hear it.  :)


I wonder how much time was actually spent on it.  Our perceptions can be very misleading as to what we spent our time on at school.


Being a mum is no less a difficult job than being a teacher, but it isn't the same job.


Of course.  Homeschooling certainly has some advantages, and that one is undeniable.


What you are good at, and what you can teach well, are not necessarly the same thing.

Nevertheless, I think it is one of the failings here is that teachers commonly teach way outside their area of training.  This is much less common in England.

Even so, she's still only paid to understand and try and keep up to date in two KLAs, not all of them (which you have to do).

Of course, any teacher does, but learning content as you go (reading one page ahead in the textbook, as we say) isn't the same as trying to teach a subject where you don't understand the issues.  When you teach maths, do you spend as much time reading up on how maths should be taught, what the issues for kids are, etc, as you spend actually teaching it?  And that's supposing that you know the content already.

Whatever a teacher may say, no-one just does it as "a job".  It's too much like hard work to do it if you're not getting something else out of it.

What ever happened to "reading, writing, and arithmetic." The proper teaching responsibility of public schools.

The three "rs", The golden rule and the hickory stick melody.

When did it become the public schools responsibility to teach moral behaviour? Is this a socialist concept?

 

The schools USED to teach morals... Check out any late 1800's and on texts and note the mention of God and right and wrong. It's all through them.

In the area I'm in, the bus picks the kids up at 6:30 a.m. and drops them back off at 4:30 p.m. That's 10 hours that the school system has the children in its care. Do you suggest that morals be ignored in the biggest part of the child's day? :-\

Kids learn through homeschooling. So the system is successful.  ;D


Actually, being a mom is harder.  ;)


Exactly! And just because a teacher is 'trained' in a certain subject matter, doesn't mean that they're good 'teachers' of the subject matter.


You don't have to study up on the age levels that you will be teaching ala 'Materials and Methods' style when you KNOW your own child and how your child learns best. Those studies best serve strangers teaching others children. They can give you a general overview but not specifics pertaining to individual differences.

Yes, to both questions. And I must (grudginly) admit that it took me a good full year to get that out of homeschooling!  ;)

So you haven't taught or attended schools in the US? And you haven't homeschooled or been homeschooled?  ???
 

You should have learned those by the end of primary school (or whatever you call it over there).  Universal secondary education has allowed us to aim a bit higher than that.

When kids stopped learning it elsewhere - and to a frightening extent, they have - the schools had to try and take over.

Absolutely.  Just pointing out the inconsistency in "I went to public school and learned nothing, so I'm going to teach my kids at home."

Quite possibly.


Also true, but the training does weed out some who won't be good teachers.

No - you don't need to know as broad a range as a classroom teacher should

Unless your training was spectacularly poor, I don't believe you aren't making use of what you learned, even if its just what to avoid.   Either way, that puts you way ahead of most homeschoolers.

I'm still highly skeptical that you can do as well in certain specialist subjects such as maths and science unless you have the appropriate background and understand of how kids learn (and don't learn) those subjects.

's what I said, isn't it?

Do you know what's staggering to me, Symphany? I read a statistic that stated 80% of Federal employees children attended: Quote:
homeschool or private school
 
academically. What does it say when the government wants private or homeschool/tutors? Sure, there's security reasons, I'm sure... but it IS a thought, is it not?



This really fries my potatoes.    I heard of a big city public school principal who homeschools his own kids.  >:(

And of state employees who homeschool theirs.

It really eats my shorts--if you'll pardon me.

   >:(

I mean, give me a break!  It's like the Jews who trafficked with the Nazis in their Jewish brethren, to the death camps, or the Africans who sold their brethren into the slave trade!

This is where I start getting really profane.

   :-[

yes in the liberal state of taxachusetts the gay state they teach how to put a condem on a cucumber, and at the high school 3 nights ago i watched with my own eyes at awards cerimonies 4 girls get awards for the best lovers of the gay alliance club they were 9th graders,.

the push libral views on politics and abortion , we reconize all religions customs and holidays except christian , they call it mult cultrial. oh when asked how you can do this the answer is oh we talk about santa clause.

yes all 5 of my children are in public schools , they are strong in thier faith and morals they also know when they are being tought wrong and they defend whats right.believe me we are well known myself and my wife , the school system doesnt like it when they see us, were in thier with issues quite often but are children are very high achievers and well behaved, so we do get the respect.
note to poor for rpivate schools with five children we refuse to have my wife work, she stays home. saveing our money for college

Why?

It's perfectly reasonable for a school principal to believe strongly in the availabilty of free public education for all, but knows he can't deliver as good an education for his kids as he can at home.

One doesn't have to take the view that everyone should be homeschooled or everyone should be public schooled.

As far as state employees - why should they even have to agree with every choice the state makes.  If that were a job requirement, NO-ONE could work for the state.

Maybe they don't see homeschooling as quite as evil as genocide or slavery,

Ollie asked:When Socialists took over.
Yup.

ebia- do you know any homeschoolers?

I believe I've already answered that:

Unless your training was spectacularly poor, I don't believe you aren't making use of what you learned, even if its just what to avoid.

Now see, that's what I was saying about attending public school. It helped me learn to avoid it!  ;)

Seriously though, my 'training' did help me learn that there is no big mystery to teaching. The best teachers seem to take to it instinctively. The 'training' seems to consist mostly of learning the paperwork.  ::)

I'm still highly skeptical that you can do as well in certain specialist subjects such as maths and science unless you have the appropriate background and understand of how kids learn (and don't learn) those subjects.

My oldest daughter takes Spanish. I took French in high school and college. I can't help her there. Does that mean we can't homeschool? Nope. It just means that I have to find other alternatives.

Have you ever heard of a publically (or privately) schooled student needing extra help? There's always a high school student available to tutor and there are Huntington and Sylvan learning centers, etc. IOW, being 'schooled' by a teacher who specializes in a subject matter is no guarantee that the student will still 'get it'.

There are some awesome teachers out there. I have no problem with that! I do have a problem with the whole institutionalized, 'one-size fits all', idea.

 

Sounds like the training is very different there than here.

I'm still highly skeptical that you can do as well in certain specialist subjects such as maths and science unless you have the appropriate background and understand of how kids learn (and don't learn) those subjects.


At least half the tutors I've encountered have been very poor, and that's when they are on top of having an adequate classroom (maths) teacher.  Several have been worse than useless.


Of course not.

It's not ideal - I'm not claiming it is - but it's all that's feasible for the vast majority of people, and I still maintain that it stands up pretty well against homeschooling.  Each system has its advantages and its disadvantages.

The very best homeschooling should equal the very best schooling, and probably does.

I'm sceptical that most homeschooling is significantly better than most public schooling, but there is no way we can ever tell for sure.

I'm certain that if most people homeschoooled the standard they would achieve would be terrible.

Hmm.  I should state I don't have kids, and so I have no authority.

I went to public school in the US. I feel that certain areas of my education were lacking.  However, I am grateful to have had the education I did.  I am working on furthering my education now.  I think I want to go into physical therapy or botany (Hey, I'm only 22.  I don't have to make a decision yet).  I personally don't think it is that bad for a child as long as you are parents like mine that constantly ask questions about what I learned.  My mother was always able to help me with english and sciences and my father was great with maths and technical things.  They gave me a good home foundation to learn from to supplement what I learned in school.  

I have personally seen homeschooling go both ways as I have public education.  I dated a homeschooled guy and him and his sister both were smart, but one could tell they were behind on things.  His sister went to a community college and ended up having to take longer b/c she had to take a ton of catch up classes.  He never really had the desire to further his education and as far as I know he still lives at home and works at a casino.  Now I date a guy who loves education.  He grew up in a small town and had lacking education... he was taking college courses in highschool b/c they couldn't offer him what he needed.  He recieved his bachelors in chemistry and is currently working on his Master's.  I see him, and he has such a desire to teach and to care about really getting it across to students and I wish more teachers really had his passion for it.  I can't say my teachers were awful, and I think I was fortunate to have the ones I did.  

My bf and I, as we look at a future together, have discussed homeschool and public.  We both agree that public school was lacking, but there is the question of whether or not we'd really be better teachers.  Private education is non-appealing b/c of costs.  He and I didn't really choose careers that would support sending a kid to private schooling. I guess we are still undecided for now.  Which is fine.  We aren't married and we have no kids (we like that no sex until marriage idea, and no I'm not taking jabs at anyone...just saying) and so we don't really have to worry about it too much.  

Sorry, my mistake. I didn't see where you had answered that.
I've debated homeschooling issues on and off the internet for 6 years now. The comments you've made seem to be very standard from someone who has had very little to no experience with homeschoolers.

What about from a different angle. There are those of us who are homeschooling children who are learning disabled (LD). My daughter has dysgraphia- something that a good deal of teachers know very little, if anything, about.
If I put her in public schools she will be placed in LD classes for everything.
She isn't LD in all areas.
She is 11.
Words like Parimaribo and Paraguay (recent spelling words) are a breeze for her to spell verbally, but she has a hard time getting them down on paper.
How would public schooling help her when I know more about the type of LD she has then they do?

I never heard of this particular LD until I went looking to see why my daughter's handwriting was so sloppy and she was missing so many spelling words in the third grade. I found out what the LD was and how to work around it. I learned how to teach a child with this LD and I can learn how to teach her other topics as they arise.

Possibly. What were you 'taught' that made a difference in your teaching? Here in the US, I've found that most of what is taught is 'common sense' stuff.


As has been my experience with the teachers. The ones that are good are really good. They care. But several have been  worse than useless.  ;) However, with tutors, you have the option of stopping the sessions. With teachers, it's a major battle to get your child out of that room.


I agree that it's all that most people think is feasible. However, having had my children in public, Christian, private and home schools, as well as having taught in them, I find that homeschooling is the best overall.

We can go to a restaurant and eat. It's easier. But I can take the time to find out what my family likes and incorporate that into the most nutritionally beneficial meals and say that I think that it's the best option.


The very best homeschooling should, and most often does, exceed the very best public schooling. ;D

No worries.

In an ideal world all teachers would be properly trained in all the learning difficulties they come across.  Of course, that isn't the reality.   Good teachers are pretty good at adapting to the individual needs of each student, many of which are diagnosable and (as I'm sure you are aware) the individual needs of kids diagnosed with the same LD can be wildly different.  My spouse has dysgraphia, and can't spell decently verbally or on paper, for example.

I've never argued that homeschooling is never better - in her case it may be that you are a naturally competent teacher, and your ability to cater for her (greater than average) individual needs outweighs your lack of training in the individual KLAs, at least at a junior level & middle school level.

Most of the general teaching stuff was an introduction to educational theories (far from common sense), courses designed to make us think deeply about learning, curriculum, classroom management, etc, etc.  On the maths side, what the pitfalls are, where kids pick up misconceptions, how to diagnose them, etc - how to avoid the mistakes of a "common sense" approach to teaching maths.  In teaching maths, there are many instances where common ways of explaining something tend to produce disasterous misconceptions - and you can easily find those bad methods in text books of only a decade or so ago.  Hardly any of it was common sense, though some of it was a waste of time.

The course here is designed to prepare teachers for the long haul, not to equip them in the short term, so you go out to your first job very green compared with countries where the course equips people well for their first job (like the US?), but we tend to produce better teachers in the medium to long term.  Most of what you learn about the practicalities of teaching, you learn during your teaching practice rounds and your first term in the job.



I've yet to encounter any teachers who are worse than useless yet.  I have met a few who clearly are in the wrong job.

Can't argue with that.

For you, that may be true.   Most parents are not so well equiped to do the job.   Many can't even manage to ensure they kids get to school everyday, on time and properly equipped.  A very large proportion don't take the time to read with their children or instill a love of learning.  And these are parents who care enough about education to pay a (very modest) fee to send their kids to a Catholic school.  In government schools its considerably worse. If parent's can't manage the basics to back up a public eductation, the results of them trying to homeschool would be disasterous.


That's fine if you understand and care enough to put in the hard work, but if your home cooking consists of fish-fingers and chips every night (or whatever the US equivalent would be) then using the restaurant might be the better option.

It may well do, but how can you know this?

OK- for starters I want to say that I'm not anti-public school.
In fact, the local ps had their graduation for the 5th graders today and they invited my daughter and other hs students to participate. We were the only hs family to show up.
I've had many opportunities to get to know many of the teachers and faculty of the school.
We are a small town and most (if not all) of the teachers and the faculty live in this town.

As good as our ps is, there are many problems with it.
There are the religious problems (i.e. "winter solace" instead of Christmas break.)
Academic problems. Many of the students that graduated in today's ceremony were reading at the 5th grade reading level. Unfortunately, it's the 5th grade reading level of today. We have had a "dumbing down" in the ps and what is considered 5th grade today would have been considered about 3rd or lower in years past.
Teachers overstepping their bounds. It is legal for a teacher or school counselor, etc. to drive a student to an abortion clinic to have an abortion and they are not allowed to tell the parents about it. Can't take them on a field trip with out parental consent, but you can drive them to a slaughter house to have their unborn baby murdered and possibly endanger their own health. There is something really wrong with that.

That being said, I do have a situation that needs prayer.
My daughters are 16 and 11.
The 16 year old will continue to be hs'ed because she is autistic and has some other LDs going on. She doesn't do well around a lot of other people, even her peers.
I have been working full time since October.
My husband has been laid off since March of 2003.
He has been having struggles with depression and has put little effort into finding work or hs'ing the girls.
Therefore, I've been working full time and doing the schooling.
I have to find a second full time job so that we can make ends meet. I am seriously considering putting the 11 year old in ps because I can not work two full time jobs and hs two girls.

When I decided to hs, I really felt that was what the Lord wanted for our family. I no longer feel that. I really feel that He is leading us to ps. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't understand and wants me to continue hs.

I'm not supermom or wonderwoman. Nor will I pretend to be.
Please all, be in prayer for our family as we make this decision.

I've no problem with using religion free terms (though I don't see the need - Christmas is part of our culture even for non-Christians).  

The drop in reading standards in schools is more to do with what's happening at home.  If kids aren't practicing their reading at home (which many more are not), then their readings standards will drop.  For those kids who do have homes where reading takes priority, there isn't a drop.  Although I would critisise some of what they are given to read at younger ages here - many of the "readers" are, quite honestly, boring.


Doesn't sound like teachers are overstepping their bounds, but the authorities who set the rules are.  Teachers have to work with the rules and guidelines that the authority sets.  If the authorities say that teachers must not tell parents, then they can't, can they?


This isn't about education at all, but society putting (quite frankly, unfair) roles and responsibilities onto teachers and schools that have nothing to do with education and little to do with reasonable pastoral care.

Ouch

Will do.

FWIW, last night I happened to be speaking to a very senior and highly regarded (Australian) maths educator who currently writes resource material for American maths teachers, and he tells me that the standard of training of most [maths] teachers in the US is much lower than here in Australia.

 The problem with many christians is that they want to hide their children from the many harsh realities life presents.

 Public education is important for a child. It helps them learn to interact socially, to learn right from wrong, and make thier own mistakes. It helps prepare a child for the adult world waiting for them.

 You can hide a child from life as much as you want, but when they turn into adults and get jobs, move out, and explore life, they'll be shocked by stuff they never would have imagined existed.

 As christians, you shouldn't find ignorance as a haven for your children. Instead, teach them right from wrong, and let them make their own destinies. Your god gave you free will for a reason.

 It will also help teach them the guises that lies take, and it will help them be able to uncover them.

LOL! Kano, As a self-proclaimed agnostic I don't suppose you have any children, either?


ebia,
FWIW, last night I happened to be speaking to a very senior and highly regarded (Australian) maths educator who currently writes resource material for American maths teachers, and he tells me that the standard of training of most [maths] teachers in the US is much lower than here in Australia.
This doesn't surprise me. Saddens me, though.

Replies to Kano
As a non-Christian you know no more about how a Christian thinks than you do a grasshopper.  Now, if you had said: "Many Christians want to protect their children from the many harsh un-realities life presents until they are mentally prepared to discern secular propaganda from truth" you would be more correct.

Socially in whose society?  Yours????  That phrase is just more secular crap.

Ha-ha!!!! Just the oposite - it teaches them to be secular: exactly what the anti-God crowd wants.

That is the most prevalent argument secularists use, simply because the to the unknowlegable secular-humanist's brain, it "sounds" good.  To be perfectly frank - it is an ignorant statement.

That is the most foolish statement you made, and why I will not bother to read or reply to any more of your godless rhetoric.

Get a life.  Get Jesus.  :)