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For those who may still think their 'good works' have some part in their redemption (as though they could add to the life, death, burial and resurrection of the Son of God in their place), the word of God is plain and clear:

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Galatians 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
II Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Romans 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

YOU BRING THIS UP ALOT WHAT RELIGION BELEAVES ITS BY WORKS :-\

I think you already know the answer. :'(

i know its catholics , but my catholic friends dont think like that. thats why im confused.

I have had a lot of roman catholic friends, most of them are now ex-roman catholics. I have been used to lead them to the Lord. When they become Christians they leave the roman religion.


Thank You Jesus

Brother Love :)

   <:)))><

most catholics and people besides catholics who believe that christians do work understand the work as something prepared for them by god. there is no boasting, only that we are accused of boasting. the only ones i know that boast are those that boast about not doing works... go figure.



catholicism is not in conflict with any of these verses. it is sad that you think so.

i have a feeling though that you are in conflict with these.

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

(the only place in the bible you will find faith and alone in the same sentance.)

mike

wow great! i have been helping many people who have been mislead by people like you come back to the church, and even bringing a few who have never been catholics along too.

mike

Salvation is first and foremost UNTO good works which God hath BEFORE ordained that we should walk(live) in. (Eph 2:10, et. al.)

Salvation is never contingent upon Any work and, in fact, salvation from beginning to end is entirely a work of God on man's behalf.

We do GOOD WORKS BECAUSE we are saved and never to get that way.

aw

hi butcha

don't be confused.. if your catholic friends don't act like that then they simply are not like that, and that is that. i have heard thousands upon thousands of attacks made against catholicism and after entering the catholic church i can only assume that there are a lot of liars out there in the protestant world, because it just aint like they say it is.

mike

Salvation is first and foremost about grace.
 

Salvation is a gift and is dependent on us accepting it otherwise we would all be saved if it was a gift we could not refuse.  Then it comes down to how do we accept the gift and that of course is up for debate and your mere statement of which side you think is right does little to prove one side or the other.  I will say this much - that nowhere in the Bible does it say that salvation is only by faith.  In fact the only place in the scriptures the words "faith" and "only" appear together says that we are NOT saved by faith only.


We do both, it is not an either/or but more a both/and scenario.  As Mark 1:15 teaches "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - we repent first, then we believe the Gospel.  Therefore, we cannot truly believe until we repent and repenting is a works that preceeds even faith because repentance comes from a military term meaning about face.  It is not merely a change of mind but a change of life, a turning around of your life, which is works.

Right On aw, Amen

Your friend and Brother

   Brother Love :)
        <:)))><

Michael:

If that's what you think the Bible teaches, then you believe that SALVATION = FAITH + WORKS.  That is false.

However, Scripture explicitly and emphatically teaches that
SALVATION IS BY GRACE ALONE, THROUGH FAITH ALONE, IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK ALONE.

Read the entire book of Romans and especially Romans chapter 4.

"NOW TO HIM THAT WORKETH IS THE REWARD NOT RECKONED OF GRACE, BUT OF DEBT. BUT TO HIM THAT WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIVETH ON HIM THAT JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Rom. 4:4,5).

Why don't you believe God instead of believing a lie? Good works FOLLOW salvation by grace through faith in Christ and HIS finished work!

Sower, and fellow adherents,


If you really did that, then you either didn't read carefully or you totally misunderstand what Paul is actually saying.

The entire Book of Romans is discourse between Paul and imaginary Judaizers. His whole argument is against the Law of Works versus the Law or Grace or "works of Righteousness".  These are totally different concepts.

Your misunderstanding also stems from the use of the word 'saved'.

When it is in reference to Christ's work, that is His, Life, Suffering, Death, Resurrection and Ascension, that is what is called the Salvation of the World or of Mankind.
Christ redeemed the entire world, His Creation. If you don't believe that, then you also cannot believe in the Incarnation. They are one and the same.

That 'Work of Christ' overcame death, the hold death has on the this world, its corruption. His work made it possible for man once again to be in union and communion with God.
It is that objective work of Christ that any man could not ever accomplish for his salvation.

Christ's work 'saved' all men. He brought Life to all men. There is no distinction whatsoever.

Because Christ's saved all of mankind, did He actually 'save' or put all men back onto union or communion with Him?

The Bible is quite clear that He did not. He puts us on the same level as Adam in reference to a command. We either accept or reject this gift. In order to come back into Union, we much believe in Him, that He did in fact redeem us (me). By faith are ye 'saved' brought back into a personal relationship. That 'faith' is always active. Never in Scripture is that faith ever treated 'alone'. If you say we are saved by faith alone in Christ, that would also be correct. Only Christ can save.

Thus man must fulfill his God-given responsibilities. It is now a journey. The actually fully 'saved' is eschotological. We finally will recieve glorified bodies in the Resurrrection. Because Christ died for ALL mankind, ALL of mankind will receive resurrected bodies as well. However, where you spend your eternity with your resurrected bodies depends on what you do on this earth in response to that inestimable free gift.
If you do as the person who got two talents and hid it, in other words did nothing, it will be taken from you, and then he was cast into outer darkeness.
James was quit clear, faith without works is dead. No works, no faith, not saved.

This is not because of man's efforts. It is all Grace. How could it be any other way. We literally breath only because of His Grace. Would our works be any different.

Like you they just change religions, like I said when they become Christians they leave the roman religion behind. And Real Christians will not go back.

You are part right salvation is by grace.  Butthat grace has to be responded to.  You big mistake is when you claim that the scriptures are emphatic in teaching faith alone.   Nowhere in scriptures does it teach that salvation is by faith alone, that is simply your believing a lie of men, as noone in the history taught this idea until Luther in the 1500's and that was only after he added the word tot he scriptures before they would make sense to him.


I have read it and have even prepared a verse by verse commentary on it in response to another time someone challenged me to read it (as if I ahdn't already read it many times over).  I will provide you this commentary for your rebuttal if you will answer my challenge to prove that salvation is by faith alone only from the Words in Read.  Surely if this concept is central to Christiainity Christ would have taught it, so it should be easy for you to shwo this doctrien of yours from His own words.


This is talking about how works (aimed at meriting the gift)cannot be used to earn a reward or make God a debtor.  The second part is talking about faith being counted for righteousness and if all we did was study Paul in isolation forming our doctrine from just part of the scriptures we might be tempted to think this teaches faith alone.  But Paul is refering to a true living faith - one that cannot exist separate from works.  As James teaches (clarifying Paul's statements) Faith alone is dead.  Works serve to both enliven and perfect faith.  That is why faith is inferior to love.  It is also why Christ so clearly teaches that salvation is dependent on loving obedience (works) not in an attempt to merit salvation, but as a means of properly accepting the free gift.


I do believe God but I believe and read all of His word.

Why do you not read and apply all of God's word to your doctrine to see if it can accomodate all that was taught in the Gospel and stop basing your doctrine on a subset of verses taken in isolation?

nice try but this sort of manipulation does nothing for me. real christians will and do go back all the time.. just as soon as they put on their thinking caps and start to see all the inconsistencies in the attacks against the catholic church. all true christians are concerned with truth, and those that seek shall find... like me.



mike

Keep Seeking Mike


Brother Love :)

   <:)))><

True message, its all Gods word.

His Messenger

To anyone:

I'm at a loss as to who believes that their 'good works' has a part in their redemption? I have been on this board only a short time, but I have yet to find anyone who believes this. Maybe someone could document it.