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whats the difference between southern baptist , and american baptist?

Don't know. What is it?



Of course I am, and here it goes   :D

Fundamental, Independent, Premillennium Baptist.... try that on t-shirt size.. it really gets better with my Church's name.
O.T.G.B.C
(old time gospel baptist church)    8) Gotta love it.............

Why not just Christ's or God's in Christ? Would such an identity tell a stranger you are of God and His Christ?

Ollie

I certainly don't know the answer - and I've been a "Baptist" my whole life.  I go to a "First Family Church" now (a spirit-filled, joy-filled church) which is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention - but it is not like any Baptist Church I grew up in - we have lots more fun.  :)

There must be hundreds of off-shoots of Baptists.

You could probably do a web search and find out more - but I'll guarantee you a SBC in one town will be different than an SBC in another – they are all fairly independent, and worship the Lord however the Lord leads the individual congregation.  
As far as SBC, particularly the one I attend – big on evangelizing, big on missions, big on charities, big on the Trinity, big on Grace, big on taking the Bible as literally as possible, big on pastors having divinity degrees from accredited universities or seminaries, and big on fried chicken and potato salad.  My church has a 7-piece band with three singers as opposed to a choir, and we make a LOT of noise during worship!  Worship lasts for at least a half-hour and teaching for about an hour after that.  We are pre-trib-rapturists and believe that everyone in the world is our brother or sister (most just aren’t saved yet).  ;D  We are actually fairly typical, except for the band and our fried chicken is better than anyone else’s.   ::)

(Oh – we love Catholics, too.)  ;D

Simple because a rebellious, drunken, womanizing Priest named Fr. Martin took it upon himself to correct his brethren.

Ok, he had some good points. But when he didn't get his way, things got ugly.

Buthca, I would have to know which southern Baptist and American Baptist you are talking about. The SBC (southern) and the Northern Baptists split in the pre-Civil War days, over the issue of slavery. There is an old joke:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
He said, "Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said, "Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
He said, "Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!"
I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.

lol, cute joke, but it makes a good point. The term “Baptist” is almost as broad as the term “Christian” now. You are going to have to be specific, my friend.

i ask the quistion, for my catholic church is closeing . being ,open to all christianity , im trying new churches. my freind recommended that i go to a southern baptist church. he felt it was closest to my beliefs. but he felt i should stay away from american baptist. he has gone on a mission, and i'm unable to talk with him.
 so i thought i'd ask my new found friends. :)

     butcha

Butcha - just start going to different churches!  You have nothing to lose...

An old saying:
Methodists - pray, pray, pray
Presbyterians - pay, pay, pay
Baptist - Dunk and be done (*plus fried chicken!)

 ;D

Seriously - ask Jesus!  He will not lead you in the wrong path as long as He is part of your decision making. Worship HIM and you will not go wrong!

PS: (I like the Spirit-filled churches where everyone lifts their hands to Him during worship.)  ;D

May Jesus be with you in your search for Truth!

We love you, brother!
JN

* I added that to the old saying.  ;D

Yes, the American Catholics are having a tough time. Preist shortages are a really problem, and with the scandles...

If you are planning on going to a new church, baptist are the opposite end of the spectrum. Half of them are extremly anti-Catholic, and the rest are "Closet anti-Catholics" ;D

The friend recommended either doesn't know a thing about Catholics, doesn't know a thing about Southern Baptists, or is trying to play a joke on you. Southern baptist (all baptists, for that matter) have little in common with your belief. Sure, you both believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins, but the simalerities stop there.

In honestly, Methodists might be what you are used too. Or Reformed Episcople.

thank you judge not

no he him self is anti catholic church
but in a constructive way not destructive
the hard part will be selling this to the wife in 5 kids. but i am the spiritual leader of the family so i've got to try guiding us in the right direction.
  thank you all for your thoughts they do help.

    butcha

I hope you meant the grinny-face at the end of that statement, Tibby, because it is simply not true.

Careful about the Methodist Church you choose - many of them (not all, but many) are luke-warm, pro-homosexual and pro-abortion - at least the ones in California.  
 

Speaking of good Baptist jokes...


I LOVE[/b] this one!  *LOL*  :D

I think the stance on regeneration.  SBC's hold to faith alone, while I think it's the American General Baptist's who hold to baptismal regeneration.  Could be wrong...been there.  Done that...

"Simple because a rebellious, drunken, womanizing Priest named Fr. Martin took it upon himself to correct his brethren.

Ok, he had some good points. But when he didn't get his way, things got ugly."

What does this statement have to do with my wondering why Christians do not identify themselves with the head of the body, Jesus Christ, instead of identities devised by men?

Ollie

Butcha,

Why not consider the church that is revealed and described in the Bible? What is its identifiers and descriptions as given in the word of God?  Who are its members? How is it governed?
What is its function? This and more is revealed about God's people in the scriptures. Use His word as the standard to find and identify a congregation of His people.


Romans 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15  For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


2 Timothy 2:19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.




Ollie

It is simple, once you figure out who I am referring to. THat sky Tibby, so vague in his posts ;D

Ok, for real, I was simply making a funny at why we are not one church. ;D

I admitt, it was lame, but I don't think it was hart to understand what I was referring, too. :P ;) :)

i dont get it . i dont know the answers to you qustions , do you have the answers because i'm interested in them.

                        hope you not messing with me again ;D

Oh, don't mind him, Ollie has a habit of posting random screptures to confuse them ;D

Ok, for real, he is either talking about:

A. Joining the church God leads you too.

B. Joining an Indepent Church that is "led by the Spirit of God" and the such ,like he is no doubt a member of.

So Ollie, which is? Or am I wrong on both counts?

tibby

thanks  ;D

Don't thank me yet, wait for Ollie to correct my transaltion. Ollie-speak is a hard language to learn, and I may have mistraslated it ;D

Nahhh - "ollie speak" is pretty much "Bible Speak" as near as I can tell - although - I have to admit, I can't always decipher it either.  ;D  (Nothing personal, Ollie, it's probably because you're waaaay smarter than me.)   ;D  (No! Seriously! I bet I’d have to climb a ladder just to see the bottom of ollie’s I.Q.!  I’m kinda like the little piece of the potato chip in the bottom of the bag with no grease and no salt – people wonder why I ever made it into the bag to begin with!)  ;D

Brother Butcha - jokes aside - I still think you should attend every church in your community.  Talk to the pastor (that's very important!)  The make a determination based on:
1. Jesus is worshipped as GOD, as 1/3rd of the Holy Trinity.
2. The Spirit is evident during worship (is He really there? You’ll know!)
3. His Word rules the church.  Period.
4. Are the people in the church obviously sincere?
5. All people are created equal, and unless God says otherwise – they ARE equal!
6. Fellowship with your brothers and sisters in Christ is imperative.
7. Who has the best fried chicken?

(You’ll notice I came up with 7 rules for determination – that’s no accident, since 7 is one of God’s favorite numbers.)  ;D

Visit ALMOST all the churches in town. There are a few rules for church to stay away from:

1. They dance with snakes
2. The church is split in 2, once side has red on, the other blue, and none of them look happy.
3. The sermon preached is "Why Tim Lehaye is the Second coming of Jesus"
4. The preacher is clad on a sequence suit
5. A red pentagram is painted on the floor
6. The Praise and worship include the gospel hit "Jesus is my Homie"

You’ll notice I came up with 6 rules – that’s no accident...

 ;D ;D ;D

YIKES!

Double YIKES!!

He-he-he

Elvis!???

Triple YIKES!!!

Hmmm....

 ;D

Now, see!  Lookie there!  A Catholic and a (near)Baptist DO agree!!!  ;D

Praise the Lord!

The sequence was an allustion to the cover of "Leap of Faith." Interesting movie. ;D

Near baptist uh? ;D Is that like a new group that split from the Reformed Baptist church of God? ;D

Nah - those guys been around for a long time.  They call them “Presbyterians”.  :-X

We are a splinter group of the “Reformed by God Church of Revised Baptists”  ;D

Better known as a Nondenominational Independent with Intentional Ties (to a Baptist Convention).  NITWIT for short.  ;D

 ;D  Did I mention that we love Catholics, too?  ;D

"hope you not messing with me again"  

What does this mean?
 

ollie  ;D
thats what i'm asking you what does it mean. in regards to what you wrote.
 i dont understand , and i wrote i hope your not messing with me, means i thought it was possible you where trying to confuse me . thats all buddy , nothing more than that , just that i didnt get what you where saying.  
                                     

"i dont get it . i dont know the answers to you qustions , do you have the answers because i'm interested in them."

The Bible reveals Christ's Church. People believing and obeying God through and in Jesus Christ are the church.
They are Christians according to God's word and wear no names of man. There is no central governing earthly body.
The governing body is in heaven. Jesus Christ is the head.

The Holy Spirit has revealed, taught and brought to remembrance, through the word and writings of inspired men, the doctrines and teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus governs His people through this revealed word of God. These writings were compiled into a book we call the Bible. It includes the Jewish scriptures.

What is very strange and perhaps ironic is that the compilers of these Holy writings belonged to an organizational church or churches that did not match that given in these compiled writings.
Something must have happened in the time period from the first century to when the scriptures were compiled into a book that led some congregations to depart from the words and writings of the apostles and others. The departure was so vast in that one or two congregations tried to become predominant over all congregations and they succeeded.
This resulted in all congregations departing from the inspired word if they chose to follow the predominant congregation that had strayed from the revealed word. The coming back to the revealed word about God's people as the Holy Spirit gave it seems to have started with what secular history calls the reformation. This is not to say that perhaps there were not still congregations of Jesus Christ still adhering to the word as given. We donot really know because secular written history chose to follow the paths of the departed predominate churches and there was no more inspired word other than what had been revealed about the church in the first century..  

The answers to my questions are contained in the Bible. I will try to reference them for you and post them.
Perhaps others might know of some off the top of their head and will post them.

Ollie

Butcha,

Judgenot has given some good thoughts on the subject.

"1. Jesus is worshipped as GOD, as 1/3rd of the Holy Trinity.
2. The Spirit is evident during worship (is He really there? You’ll know!)
3. His Word rules the church.  Period.
4. Are the people in the church obviously sincere?
5. All people are created equal, and unless God says otherwise – they ARE equal!
6. Fellowship with your brothers and sisters in Christ is imperative."


This one I have seperated even though it can be very much a part of God's people. I don't think the Bible tells of such.  ;)
"7. Who has the best fried chicken?"

Butcha,

"Why not consider the church that is revealed and described in the Bible? What is its identifiers and descriptions as given in the word of God?  Who are its members? How is it governed?
What is its function? This and more is revealed about God's people in the scriptures. Use His word as the standard to find and identify a congregation of His people."

"What is its identifiers and descriptions as given in the word of God?"

John 13:34.  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
 35.  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


To the Church at Corinth and all the faithful:

 1 Corinthians 1:2.  Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

2 Corinthians 1:1.  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:


 Colossians 1:2.  To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Romans 16:16.  Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

 Hebrews 12:22.  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
 23.  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
 24.  And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


 
1 Corinthians 12:27.  Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


:Who are its members?"


Acts 2:41.  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 Acts 2:47.........And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Obedient believers such as should be saved are the churches members. Members of the body of Christ



"How is it governed?"

 Ehesians 1:1.......to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:


17.  That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
 18.  The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
 19.  And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
 20.  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
 21.  Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
 22.  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
 23.  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Philippians 1:1.  Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

It is governed by Christ with His congregations having bisops and deacons to oversee, be example to, and serve the needs of God's people according to God's word.


"What is its function?"


Ephesians 1:1.  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1:4.  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 5.  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
 6.  To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
 7.  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
 8.  Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
 9.  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
 10.  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
 11.  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
 12.  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
 13.  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 16:25.  Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
 26.  But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:17.  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
 18.  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
 19.  For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Acts 2:42.  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

John 13:34.  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
 35.  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


Pray this helps. It takes much study and discerning of God's word and much physical traveling and visiting to find a congregation of God's people who are living by His word and His word only through the Holy Spirit. If none can be found in your area how about a congtregation in your home with your family and friends?

Ollie

Amen!  :D




and DITTO!  :-X Sorry, it just slipped.....

Hmmmm? "Random"? "Them"? (http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/jump3.gif)

One does not join the church. One is added to the church by the Lord such as should be saved. However one can change congregations and join oneself to another.

The church is not independant, It is ruled by God through King Jesus who also is the Christ. It is guided by the Holy Spirit through His revealed word.

Love in Christ,
Ollie   8)

Ollie said:
I keep telling everyone how smart Ollie is.
The proof is in the puddin'.

Amen Brother Ollie.  :)

Ah-uh... DENIAL! Only 2 people say these kinds of things, Professional Catholic Apologists and Independents. I know a great Independents Anonymous group. It will really help you to come to grips with being an indepenant.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

OLLIE I THINK I GET IT . YOUR TELLING ME TO CHOSE BETWEEN THE CHURCH WITH THE FRIED CHICKEN, OR DANCE WITH SOME SNAKES, THAT TIBBY TALKS ABOUT.


 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Independant of what?

Independant from whatever you want. ;D That is the beauty of the Independant Church you are a member of ;D

OLLIE ,
SEE NOW I GET TIBBYS POINT.That is the beauty of the Independant Church you are a member of

Christ's church is not independent from God, His Christ, or the word of God, as given through His Holy Spirit to inspired men of God.


The religions of man however are independent from God and His Christ with their many independent rulings, doctrines, and
diversive and dividing ways that are not authorized by God or His Christ.

Ollie    :)

 hi ollie

i here ya brother you do crack me up. im pretty good getting the feel for people but your a tough one :D

if its not to personal i was wonderring do you attend church? and if you do wich one?

because you sound so anti church, anti astablishment?

i'm not insulting you, i figure the way you talk that you have nothing to do with any church at all, is this true. just wonderring

                 in love butcha

Oh, Ollie. Independant is not a 4-letter word. Do not be scare to use it! ;D

The drifting away from the one church and unity in the faith started long before "Martin". In fact it started in the first century during the time of the apostles etc.

The printing press and the mass publication of Bibles probably was the beginning back to God's truth of the one church and the unity of His Spirit with the believer's spirit. After it was no longer a death sentence to copy and print Bibles.

Hi there,

???

I meet and assemble with a congregation of the faithful in Christ.

  The one that the Bible reveals to us, Christ's, God's

Just anti men's religion and churches of men instead of Christ.

I know, thanks.

 No. As I have already said before.

 OK.

Likewise,
Ollie

 ;Dwell i guess that clears that up . thanks for the answers ;D

Before or after the bible was put together in the 3rd century ::)

Ok really, when did the loss of unity start, Ollie? What caused it?

Ollie and Tibby,

Independent=liberated.   ;D


Before.   ;D  And...


Unity was lacking first when people began to leave.  I know whatch'yer thinkin' too.  The "protestants" left the CC, therefore, they have left.  I'd contend there man.  The CC has proof it was the church Jesus began because it says so.  The New Testament church, wasn't Baptist, Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox.  It was His.  Uniquely, still is.  Only now we have the parts naming themselves.  The Catholic head, and Baptist belly  ;D.  The Protestant foot and the Orthodox hand.  There are saved folk in each, as well as lost.  Some teach truth, some teach heresy.  Some teach truth heretically.  Some wouldn't know truth if it came up and bit them!

Guys, we're either part of the church or we aren't.  Each knows where he stands with God, regardless of denominational standing.   :)

Guys, we're either part of the church or we aren't.  Each knows where he stands with God, regardless of denominational standing.

This is the best statement I've read in a loooooong time.... Now if only it started with 'Guys AND Gals'....  ;D

You could have read it sooner... in the Catecism ;D

"Whats in a name? A rose by any other will smell just as sweet!

"Before or after the bible was put together in the 3rd century ::)"

Before.


"Ok really, when did the loss of unity start, Ollie? What caused it?"

Paul gives a hint of it in his letter to the church at Corinth and Galatia.

 1 Corinthians 1:10. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
 11.  For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
 12.  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
 13.  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


1 Corinthins 15:12.  Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Galatians 1:6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.


The causes always seems to be man in the vanity of his own will instead of God's.


Ollie

You're so cute with your Independent beliefs, ollie. There was a little bit of a issue, yes, but, this issue was addressed by Paul. The verse you quoted WAS Paul addressing the issue! A little disagreement between a few baby Christians (babies, as in still young, still immature in the faith, as Paul stated earlier in the book) is a FAR, FAR, FAR cry from a complete church drift.

Whether mature or immature in the faith it is examples of how even in the first century there were those trying to preach a gospel other than Jesus Christ's and pull the assemblies in another direction.
Secular history shows it happened. The two predominate churches that eventually came out of the first, second, and third centuries were and are so far removed from the inspired word's of Peter, Paul, and others that one can see from Paul's reprimands to the young Christians in the first century that it was all very possible for this falling away to have started in Paul's time.

One could say I became independent from these secular churches and dependant on God and His Christ,though not always.
Dependency on God's word and God's word only became apparent when it was discovered from much Bible study that these secular churches did not always tell it as God revealed it.

Ollie

I didn't realize even the entire Catholic Church listened to and followed what I believe!   ;D

And what were these Churches? Heretics came out, yes, but I have never read of these two predominate churches so far removed. If you are going to make claims like this, cite them.


Actually, Allinall, you just went the long way around by coming to this belief on your own ;D You could have just saved yourself the time and talked to a Catholic ;D

Naaah.  I like my version better.   ;D

I'm sorry to here that. ;D

You sound like a friend of mine the other day. He is blind, and needed help finding his class. I said

"Aaron, want me to guide you to the class? I have been to that room a lot, and I'm sure I can help you find it"

"No," he said "I prefere to find my own way"

He finally found the class, but by then the rest of us where already in our next class!  ;)

For this analogy to be accurate you would have to add 2000 years of detours along the way.  :-[ Many times "religion" does more to distract from the truth than it does to clarify it.

Since each of us shall give account of himself to God we better be fully convinced in our own mind of the truth and not someone else's religious agenda.

(Rom 14:4-12 NKJV) []bWho are you to judge another's servant?[/b] To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. {5} One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. {6} He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it... But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother?... So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

(Heb 10:16-19 NKJV)  "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," {17} then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." {18} Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. {19} Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,

(1 Tim 1:3-8 NKJV)  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia; remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, {4} nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. {5} Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, {6} from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, {7} desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. {8} But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully...

Nah.  In truth, it's not my way, your way, the Catholic or Baptist way.  It's His way.  And in the round about, God takes us His way often through our own stubborness to teach us truths we'd never learn the easy way with the clarity we do the hard way.   :)

Hey, it isn't my school, nor is it Aarons, but I still got to class before he did, now didn't I? Yes, we all take the same class, but we got there different ways. It just so happens my way got me there is time to hear the lecture. :)

Maybe it was divine providence...the lecture was on evolution.


'These people draw near to me with their mouth, And honor me with their lips; But their heart is far from me.  And in vain do they worship me, Teaching as doctrine rules made by men.'... "Every plant which my heavenly Father didn't plant will be uprooted.  Leave them alone. They are blind guides of the blind. If the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit." (Mat 15:8-14 WEB)

Man, that was close, good thing I believe in Theistic
evolution! :P ;D Actually, for sake of the example, it was Grammer & Comp class (please, save the sarcasm for later ;D )



Man, another close one! Good thing I'm Catholic! :P ;D

"And what were these Churches? Heretics came out, yes, but I have never read of these two predominate churches so far removed. If you are going to make claims like this, cite them.".

The church that was at Rome and the churches of the East that became Eastern orthodox.

Ollie

You might want to rethink your Christianity if you are reading and following a bible put together by Heretics... ::)

Scripture inspired by by God..."my words will by no means pass away"

Religion corrupted by man..."philosophy" and "the tradition of men"


Every writing inspired by God is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 WEB)

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. (Luk 21:33 WEB)

But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'  "For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men...(Mar 7:7-8 WEB)

For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside to fables.
(2Ti 4:3-4 WEB)

As therefore you received Christ Jesus, the Lord, walk in him, rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, even as you were taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving. Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ. (Col 2:6-8 WEB)

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. Abstain from every form of evil. May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Th 5:21-23 WEB)

In all fairness this appears to be a problem with all religions not just the Catholic flavor.

To your first post: What are you saying? The bible fell out of the sky? ???

To you second post: I tend to lean toward the fact that this appears to be a problem with all religions but Catholic flavor. Ancient Catholics, from the same company that brought you the bible! ;D

Every writing inspired by God is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 WEB)

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. (Luk 21:33 WEB)


God has preserved His Word in spite of man not because of man.


I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel; and there isn't another gospel. Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any gospel other than that which you received, let him be cursed. (Gal 1:6-9 WEB)

Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you not to obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth among you as crucified? I just want to learn this from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now completed in the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain, if it is indeed in vain? He therefore who supplies the Spirit to you, and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." (Gal 3:1-6 WEB)

He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints... that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, Christ; (Eph 4:11-15 WEB)


I'll stick with inspired scripture.

Others can choose to follow religious doctrine if they choose.

God removed the veil, the "church" created a new one.

I gotta be honest, I stopped reading your post after I read that line. ::) What is that suppose to mean? Oh, I don't agree with you, so I must not be a Christian, because Mr. I_Believe is infallible or something? ::)

Been there, done that and knowledge in God's word finally freed me from the secular religions of man and brought me into the perfect law of liberty in Jesus Christ.

You need to study on the compiling and organization of the Bible and its contents and how it came to be even though some who helped compile it and organize it apostasized from the truth it contained.

The potentates of the church at Rome were not the sole possessor of the scriptures we know as the Bible, the word of God. How ever they did their utmost in trying to keep what they possesed from the people.

Knowledge of truth is power and eventually will bring to naught those that teach otherwise when it is found out. The potentates at Rome knew this and did everything in their power to prevent knowledge of the beautiful simplicity of the true church Christ is building.

Ollie

I know how the bible came into being, but after this last post, I have my doubts on if you do.

As for the Church trying to keep the bible from people... well, to qoute early 90's pop-culture "Whatever!" Who did htey keep it from? The serfs who couldn't read and couldn't even afford a copy if they could? Yeah, like they where really dying to get there hands on a copy. ::) The kings and lords? Yeah, maybe if the Priest had a death wish he could tell the king no! ::) Who did they keep the bible from?

No person or group of people (Catholics included) are infallible.

As therefore you received Christ Jesus, the Lord, walk in him, rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, even as you were taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving. Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ. (Col 2:6-8 WEB)

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. Abstain from every form of evil. May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Th 5:21-23 WEB)

But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them. (Eph 2:4-10 WEB)

But to each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of Christ...He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ; (Eph 4:7-12 WEB)

GRACE + anything is not the gospel.

We are created in Christ Jesus for good works.


Scripture from God...religion from man.

You're right, Catholics are not infallible. But that still doesn't answer my question.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried about with different and strange doctrines, for it is good for the heart to be established with grace, not with foods, in which those who have walked in them were not helped. (Heb 13:8-9)


Saved by GRACE through FAITH Yesterday, today and forever!

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=2895&start=15 (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=2895&start=15)

That STILL does not answer my question. I ask you what you mean by:


Now stop boosting your post count with spam and answer the question ::)

"Who did they keep the bible from?"

"Laymen"

Reference- Inquisition, Council at Toulouse, circa 1229.
Catholic Encycopedia 1913.


"I know how the bible came into being, but after this last post, I have my doubts on if you do."

Explain the scriptures in the hands of Eusebius, Clement, etc. at the end of the first century and beginning of the second century. The Roman Catholic church was not yet in existence.
There is no established proof that the council at Hippo in 329 AD was of a Roman inclination.

Ollie

Do all Catholics consider scripture to be spam or is that your personal opinion? Were they just trying to protect the poor laymen from the scripture?

Truly I say to you, Unless you are converted and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Therefore whoever shall humble himself like this little child, this one is the greater in the kingdom of Heaven. (Mat 18:3-4)

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those being lost, but to us being saved, it is the power of God. (1Co 1:17-18)

For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. (1Co 2:2-5)

CCC 1257: "The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation...The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude...God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism..."


Saved by GRACE through FAITH Yesterday, today and forever!

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. Abstain from every form of evil. May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1Th 5:21-23)

Old Testament and the “memoirs of the Apostles” as they called them. And the memoirs differed in each area. It wasn’t until the put it into a single cannon that is was the uniform book we call the bible.



Ya think? :P The “Roman Catholic Church” never came into being until after Fr. Martin Luther. It was one united holy and Apostolic New Testament Church. Christian was Christian, and it was like that until Luther came along. The Church that is now “Roman Catholic” never thought of it as A church. Before the reformation, it was THE church. Oh, the the Roman Catholic church was in existence, make on mistake. It just didn't have a cute little pet name, it was just "The Body of Christ." Don’t confuse the name with the entity.

Hey, I_Believe, stop monkeying around and answer my question. That isn't an answer. How do you relate:


to mean that I am "deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel"? I just don't see the connection between my post, and your insult.

Scripture is not insulting.  If you don't think it apllies to you then let it pass.

For as the rain comes down and the snow from the sky, and doesn't return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, and gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (Isa 55:10-11 WEB)


Every writing inspired by God is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 WEB)

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. (Luk 21:33 WEB)

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. Abstain from every form of evil. May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he who calls you, who will also do it.  (1Th 5:19-24 WEB)


Oh, the arrogance of man.  God and only God preserved His Word.  He preserved it in spite of man not because of man.


For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart... Having then a great high priest, who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold tightly to our confession. For we don't have a high priest who can't be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore draw near with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace for help in time of need.  (Heb 4:12-16 WEB)

For this cause I, Paul, am the prisoner of Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles... that by revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I wrote before in few words, by which, when you read, you can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ;... has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, whereof I was made a servant, according to the gift of that grace of God which was given me according to the working of his power. To me, the very least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now through the assembly the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord; (Eph 3:1-11 WEB)

Religion is like a coconut.  You must break through the husk of man's traditions to get to the sweet milk & meat of the truth of the gospel of Christ.

Scripture from God...Religion from man.

Not a very bright one, are you? Show me where


is in scripture. ::)

Enjoyed I Believe, thanks for posting. Never mind Tibby, he is very slow. :)

Brother Love :)

<:)))><

Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things. (2Ti 2:7)


I have shared scripture that shines the light of the truth of the Gospel of Christ as revealed by the Apostles by word and deed.  I do not have the power or commission from the Lord to enlighten you to the truth.  The "Father of glory" is the one who enlightens us "with a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him."

...don't cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him; having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of his calling, and what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to that working of the strength of his might which he worked in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and made him to sit at his right hand in the heavenly places... (Eph 1:16-20)

Let such a person consider this, that what we are in word by letters when we are absent, such are we also in deed when we are present. For we are not bold to number or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves. But they themselves, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves with themselves, are without understanding. (2Co 10:11-12)


The Lord removes the veil, religion creates a new one.


But their minds were hardened, for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains, because in Christ it passes away. But to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. But whenever one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the Spirit. (2Co 3:14-18)

Still doesn't anser the question ::)

BL- I thought you left with A4C and all.

You just didn't like the answer.  The scripture contains the answer.  Your religious doctrine does not.

But in vain do they worship me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men...(Mar 7:7-8)

THE HOLY FATHER - The Roman Pontiff, as the successor of Peter...

And they love the first couch at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the market-places, and to be called, Rabbi! Rabbi! by men. But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers. And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven. (Mat 23:6-9)

Scripture from God...Religion from man. ;)

Ok, in that case, spell it out for me. Remember, I’m an unsaved Catholic, you have to explain things for me. So, explain it, or stop skinning the question. What is this fear of a straight answer you have?  ::)

When deciding what building to worship in and what group of people within the body of Christ you want to cooperate with and get support from I say do the following:  My friend did this and she found all the good churches that are SO perfect for exactly the mission that she is given for her life.  Your mission may be different, so  . . . .

 ;D  I say keep a sharp eye out for the best fried chicken!   ;D  

1.) Then remember that no man is perfect.  
2.) Don't swallow anything whole.  
3.) Don't believe anything you see and only half of what you hear.   ;)  --Many Christians are excellent fakers.  They have to be because we are ALL so judgmental.  --  And we love to make the scriptures say what we want them to.  There's benefits to being liked and accepted in our community there's got to be ways to justify whatever we want to get away with and still keep our acceptance in order.
3.5) to avoid this downfall look for places where Freedom is there.  For where the Lord is there is FREEDOM.  Where freedom is there are a lot less fakers and much less volumes of twisted doctrines to learn.
4.) Don't go a full day without reminding yourself that God  knows He has a mission for You and He knows you need guidance.  
5.) Then visit and worship as often as possible.  Check schedules and see how many worship services you can get in in each week.  Go to the morning, the afternoon, the evening, the mid-week, the thursday  night, the Wednessday night worship services!  Bring lots of Ones because there will be a collection basket passed around for this and that, and unless you have lots of ones, you can't afford this.  Learn to fix something you can bring that everyone will love.  They'll be dinners, pot lucks and lots of food.  You'll learn a lot and the Holy Spirit will help you pick out truths and discern spirits.  He's the Holy Reminder too.  He'll bring the important things back to your mind.  

What I've found out is that if there's a big group of people that call themselves XYZ and they've developed a reputation for serving God, another group will name themselves XYZ because they want to ride on a good name.  And if there's a name that's been doing wrong, then folks change their name.  Changing names doesn't guarantee changing hearts or ideas or groups of people.  So, don't look at names and labels and groups.  Man looks on the outside appearances, but God looks on the heart.  Keep an eye on the heart.  

I've also seen people with MINT doctrine.  They know the stuff inside and out and yet they don't live out what they teach.  I've seen folks with wrong doctrine living out Christ's love.  The Lord looks on our heart,  not on our I.Q. or our ability to learn concepts.  What happens sometimes is that we develop biases that blind us.  Just never forget that Jesus Christ DIED for your sins--including the ones about not knowing everything, that included with the part that renewing your mind makes you much happier--gotta get the dust and junk and  cobwebs out.

Let MERCY LEAD!  

And don't forget the creed.  "I believe in God the Father, Almighty Maker of Heaven and Maker of Earth.  And in Jesus Christ His Only Begotton Son, Our Lord.  He Was Conceived by the Holy Spirit, Born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered under Pontious Pilate, He was crucified and dead and buried, on the third day rose again.  I believe that what I believe makes me what I am.  I believe in the Holy Spirit, The communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, and the resurection and LIFE THAT NEVER ENDS!"  Everyone here in this forum can agree with these things.  As to their exact meaning, that's another story.    ;)  

God Guide and Bless!  ;)

For the record, I've modified this post a billion times because I'm afriad of that scripture about the millstone and the neck and leading little ones astray.  I'm pretty sure that I have no biases and I checked my heart for ulterior motives and well, I think it will do.  

Please see post 80 above.  Read it very carefully and pray that God will open the eyes of your heart.

If you don't think it apllies to you then let it pass.

Therefore since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not faint. But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor adulterating the Word of God, but by the revelation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But also if our gospel is hidden, it is hidden to those being lost, in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For it is God who said, "Out of darkness Light shall shine;" who shone in our hearts to give the brightness of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2Co 4:1-6)

Man's doctrine...

With the Rosary, the Christian people sits at the school of Mary and is led to contemplate the beauty on the face of Christ and to experience the depths of his love. Through the Rosary the faithful receive abundant grace, as though from the very hands of the Mother of the Redeemer.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html)

God's scripture...

But you, when you pray, enter into your inner chamber, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. In praying, don't use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their much speaking. Therefore don't be like them, for your Father knows what things you need, before you ask him. (Mat 6:6-8)

But may the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a little while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To him be the glory and the power forever and ever. Amen. (1Pe 5:10-11)

Primary differences between the Baptists are really quite simple. Though there are other minor variances the two fundamental reasons we differ are in Mission support and Church government. Third may be communion.

Southern Baptists believe it is best to tithe to a central body who in turn supports the mission field. Thus we are able to place hospitals, schools and missions right when we go into the field.
 
We also believe we have the right to self govern and hold lightly to the guidelines and structure of our convention. Southern's tend to be smaller church bodies and more focused into Bible study.

Other than that you will likely never notice a difference except in communion which often may in truth vary per local body more than in our various splinter groups.

Satire