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Reading through 1 John and came across this verse and now I'm trying to understand what the "sin unto death" reference is alluding to:

KJV- If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


Has anyone here studied this and come across an explanation?

God Bless,

-Samson

This is one of the most difficult passages in all of scripture and I don't think that any final answers areavailable. "Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" is the only sin that is not forgiveable. The Lord Himself declared that ALL manner of sin save this one was forgiveable.

Since the letter is addressed to JEWISH BELIEVERS, it could relate to their LAW. There were some sins that were punishable by death, such as incest.

Another possibility is that of a convicted murderer on death row. It would do no good to pray that his/her sentence be reversed unless of course, he/she was found guilty unjustly.

Another possibility is that it is temporal death imposed by God- the ultimate in chastisement. Not loss of salvation, but physical death for their own well being.

I don't think that there is one definitive, orthodox answer.

Its good to see one studying and asking good questions- I encourage you to continue in spite of coming across things that are sometimes hard to understand. The Lord will guid you into all truth if He is given the opportunity.

aw

I have been taught and believe that "Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" – or unpardonable sin, is to “look the Lord in the eye and be defiant towards Him”.  This is the sin committed by Satan and his fallen angels – they can never be forgiven.  I’ve also heard the opinion that it is also true of some of those Pharisees who looked Jesus in the eye, interacted with Him, saw His miracles, but still rebuked Him and said His powers came from ‘demons’.

:) And there are plenty of things that are sometimes hard to understand... However, I have discovered something that many people probably already know and it is this: The more I read scripture, the more I fall in love with scripture, which in turns leads me to fall more in love with God, which in turn leads me to read more, which in turn... you get the point.

I've also discovered that as I read more I am able to link more scripture together that, in turn, opens up my understanding, little by little. Yet, every once in a while I encounter these interesting points that make me go "huh?" :)

Many thanks for all your insight.

God Bless,

-Samson

:)  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)  :)
Can't add anything to that statement!

One thing I have discovered about the "tough" passages- the more we study them, pray, and meditate, the more we will find the true blessings that are in them.

For example, I used to be really worried that I could lose my salvation because of a teaching from Hebrews 6:4-6 It lasted for a long time until I finally read Vs 9- the lights came on and jumped for joy!!!!!

Its all good and God is good- all of the time!

aw

blasphemy against the Holy Spirit results in spiritual death
(mark3:29)and the book of hebrews describes spritual death of a person who turns against christ(hebrews6:4-6)John was probably talking about the people  who had left the christian fellowship and joined the antichrists rejecting the only way to salvation.

Just a couple of points Jenn,
A true believer cannot commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

Secondly, I think you are right in that 1 John, like all of the JEWISH epistles, addresses the need for JEWS to stay identified with the Lord and to not TUCK & RUN.

aw

  :)

How about this?

Matthew 6:14.  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
 15.  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If one's trespasses are not forgiven by God because one has not forgiven the men who trespass one, will one live?

Ollie

Unforgiveness is a bad thing, but it is not the nature of the true child of God. If we go forward from the synoptic gospels to Ephesians, we will find the beseeching of "Forgiving one another as Christ HATH forgiven you." The believer is forever forgiven of all sin in terms of condemnation/judgment. (Romans 8:1,2; John 5:24) Unforgiveness can resault in LOSS of fellowship with the Lord and fellow believers, but not death.

aw

Which brings up an interesting question (unless it's already been answered)... what exactly is forgiveness?

We, obviously, don't have the ability to FORGET trespasses which is something that God does have. It's also a given that forgiveness is not simply an act of verbally expressing "I forgive you". What is the act of forgiving?

Can forgiveness occur when there is not repentance on the part of the offending party? In other words, does God forgive us even though we don't repent? If not, then must we forgive those who don't repent of their acts against us?

Sorry for all the questions, the last two threads just started my brain moving again... :)

God Bless,

-Samson

Hello Samson,
Hope your hair is still long (kidding).

Wow, 2 broad topics. My understnading of repentance, in a nutshell, is that of "Changing one's mind. To TURN and go in the opposite direction." There is an aspect of it that involves "GODLY sorrow," but not sorrow as the world knows it.

"FORGIVENESS" comes from root words meaning "cancel" or "send away." God has forgiven us to the extent that our sins have been cancelled and sent away.(Hebrews 8:12)

We are to do the same. We are to "FORGIVE one another as He forgave us." We take it to the Lord and He grants repentance and forgiveness. We can then go to the offending brother or sister and have the matter reconciled.

aw

Sorry Aw... my wife took care of the long hair eons ago... :)

Yea, I think most individual's concept of forgiveness doesn't go much deeper than the "I forgive" you process, at least from the folks that I know and have spoken to about it. They haven't really grasped the "how to forgive" idea even though it's mentioned constantly that they SHOULD forgive.

I believe that stems from the fact that we've never really been taught HOW to forgive to the point that we really don't understand HOW forgiveness really happens.

For example; let's assume that an individual has committed an infraction against me, something that hurt me deeply. Let's also assume that this individual has repented of his actions and comes forth with a sincerely repentant heart.

What do I do? Well, I can say "That's ok, I forgive you" and this individual may well go on his merry way with the knowledge that he has been forgiven. But has he?

What happens internally, I believe, is where the true act of forgiveness resides. I'm convinced that I must somehow find the will internally to reconcile his actions with my resulting reactions and make the sacrificial effort to bury the emotional hurt. How can I do that?

That is where the miraculous power of God comes in to play. It would be nearly impossible to accomplish such a thing without the love of God residing within me. It is His love that empowers me, that heals me, that truly gives life to the act of forgiveness.

I believe it may be nearly impossible, if not completely impossible, for an individual who has not come to know PERSONALLY the love of Christ to know the true meaning of complete forgiveness. If an act committed years ago, months ago, days ago, whatever, still tears at us and still eats us inside... then we've not really forgiven...

God Bless,

-Samson

Nice insights Samson. All sin is ultimately against God and therefore HUMAN forgiveness must rest upon divine forgiveness. It is God who grants repentance and only His influence on our hearts, which is by definition grace(Strong'S Exhaustive), can create true forgiveness.

aw

 The phrase "sin unto death" describes the final stage of divine discipline in which God removes from the earth the person who is totally alienated from God. The "sin unto death" is not a particular sin; but it is, rather, a mental attitude of total indifference to and rebellion against the will and purpose of God.

The spiritual condition of the person who comes under the "sin unto death" is characterized by continual and maximum carnality; and this punishment represents God's final step of chastisement to those who are in maximum alienation from God. Only God can discern the true nature of a person's mind, attitude, or volition; and only God knows whether a person is actually implacable and deserving of physical death.

The "sin unto death" is described as a principle in 1 John 5:16; Psalm 118:17,18; and Ezek. 18:21-32.

It is important for the Christian to understand the circumstances under which sins are not "unto death".

First, sin which is confessed is not "unto death". 1 John 1:9; 1 Cor. 11:31; Ps. 32:5; Ps. 38.

Second, sin which is discontinued is not "unto death". Heb. 12:1; Eze. 18:21-32.

Finally, the person who responds positively to divine discipline is not involved in the "sin unto death". Heb. 12:6, cf. 12:11-15.

There are definite characteristics by which to recognize the conditions which lead to God's applying the "sin unto death". Persistent, unconfessed sin, sin which continues unchecked with no repentance, may bring a person under this category. Also, the person who persistently ignores Grace, warnings, and discipline may come under the "sin unto death". Lev. 26. Then, sin which has a maximum adverse effect on other people (causing stumbling) may lead a person into severe discipline.

Some case histories of the "sin unto death":

* The case of "lying to the Holy Spirit" (Ananias and Sapphira). Acts 5:1-10.

* The case of persistent carnality while sitting at the Lord's Table, 1 Cor. 11:30,31.

* The case of disobedience to the Word of God.1 Chron.10:13,14; 1 Sam. 13:9-14. King Saul did not kill Agag although directly ordered to do so by God; he insisted on personally offering sacrifices in the place of divinely appointed priests; and he consulted a witch, itself a capital offense.

* The case of self-righteousness and dependence on man which was perpetuated (case of Hezekiah). Isa. 38.

* The case of apostasy on the part of a believer. Num. 31:8; 1 Tim. 1:19,20.

Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead when they lied to God (Acts 5:1-11)

Paul said that some Christians had died because they took communion in an unworthy manner (1 Corinthians 11:27-30)

There are two kinds of death tho, physical and spiritual.

Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit may result in spiritual death, though I know there is a lot of debate about this, and what it entails.

I wouldn't worry too much about discerning whether or not someone has committed this sin, just leave that up to God.