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There is a Protestant Fundamentalist DENOMINATION that calls itself "the church of Christ" and is not. :'(

It is very easy to establish this fact.

The real church of Christ, was founded in 33 A.D.

The protestant denomination that stole the name was founded in the late 19th to early 20th century, the official date it appeared in the US religious census was in 1906.

The real church of Christ was founded by Christ himself,

the denomination using that name was founded by dissadent members of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) over the issues of organ music and missionary funding organisations, and other "unauthorised, unbiblical innovations", the DOCs were in turn founded by Alexander and Thomas Campbell, and Barton Stone in the early 19th century.

The REAL church of Christ was founded in Jerusalem,

the campbellite denomination was founded and is still for the most part limited to the deep south of the USA.

The campbellite sect claims to "restore" the first century church which supposedly "apostacised" itself out of existence when it ceased to follow the Bible as God.  Of course this too is impossible since the Bible was not followed as God by the first century church, it could not have since the Bible was not formed into one volume  until the year 390, long after the church and Christianity had supposedly gone into "total apostacy" and ceased to exist.

To put it bluntly Ollie, you cannot "restore" a body which never esisted to begin with.

Ollie you can act dumb all you want to, but you forget that I to was raised in the Protestant Fundamentalist sect you belong to, I am very familar with all the rhetoric it uses, and none of that changes the fact that it is a protest denomination, and not THE CHURCH OF CHRIST  no matter what name it chooses to call itself

Only familiar with the denomination, "The United Church of Christ".
Do not know of a denomination that calls itself "the church of Christ".

That's odd since you a member of it and have provided links to sites published by the "church of Christ" denomination.


Only know of the true church of Christ as revealed in the Bible.

Sorry but the sect yoou beleong to has little to nothing to do with the REAL church of Christ as revealed in the Bible

True

Not familiar with this denomination or the given data, so cannot speak here.

Again you are fooling no one since you are a member of it, it might be a good idea to familiarise yourself with the history and background of the denomination you "placed membership" in.  But again I am sure you are already familiar with this, and are just continuing your "dumb" act

True

 True, many of these denominations have practices not found in God's word. Not familiar with the so called "founders".
How can any man found a church that has already been established by God through His Son Jesus Christ? Entrance to it is only through obedience to Jesus Christ.

Perhaps you are getting my point after all.  Human beings or "men" did not establish the REAL church of Christ, but they did establish the Protestant denomination that the Protestant denomination you belong to schismed from,  whether you acknowlege that fact of not does not make it any less the truth

A truer statement would be established when Peter preached and those that heard the good news of Jesus Christ, and were pricked in their hearts, repented of their sins, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were added to the church such as should be saved.

The only difference in our statements is that yours is much longer and contians a charectoristic quote from the idol you worship


Cambellites are as unscriptural as orthodoxy. They can not be found in the Bible. However I donot know what a campbellite is, only know it is not a scriptural reference for God's people.

While is dissagree with you as to the "unscriptural" nature of Orthodoxy, as well as the need to get permission from the Bible for everything we do or say, if anything is "unscriptural" it is the Campbellite sect, of which you are a member, I know you are continuing your "dumb" act.  But if you really don't know what a Cambellite is, take a look in  the mirror, or look around Wednesday night when you go to church and you will see many more Campbellites

If they refered to themselves as campbellites, they were not Christ's church!
The New Testament Church in the first century had holy men inspired of God delivering God's word in person just as it is written for us today. This word is complete and claims itself to be all sufficient for the man of God to be thoroughly furnished unto good works.

{quote]To put it bluntly Ollie, you cannot "restore" a body which never esisted to begin with.Christs Body has never been in need of being restored. It has been since the day of Pentecost as related in Acts 2.

What has been missing since the apostate, paganistic, traditions of men, church took over is the good news of Jesus Christ to be preached in truth, not adulterated, and people obeying it so once more they could be added to the true church such as should be saved. With this came a visible assembly of the church as Christians are told to assemble together.

I am not even going to bother to respond the the rest of your silly dumb act,  if you are unwilling to debate on an honest basis, why do you even bother comming here?

What has been missing since the apostate, paganistic, traditions of men, church took over is the good news of Jesus Christ to be preached in truth, not adulterated, and people obeying it so once more they could be added to the true church such as should be saved. With this came a visible assembly of the church as Christians are told to assemble together.

The above statement is very revealing of the inconsistency of many fundamentalists. The claim that the early Church apostacized as the so-called "traditions of men" took over and that at some later point a "visible assembly of the church" came about runs contrary to scripture and contrary to history.

Any and all Protestant sects (even the silly Trail of Blood Baptists who have no visible proof for their statements other than their own say-so) can be shown historically to have begun long, long after the first millennium. For the most part, a good 1500 years transpired before the Reformation. Christ said He would build His Church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Thus, to claim that the Church apostacized and that it was only with the coming of the Reformers that the Church was gotten "back on the tracks" so to speak, is to fly in the face of scripture. It is also to run completely against historical facts. The Orthodox Church can demonstrate historically and factually that it has been there from the earliest days.

Ollie... Christ's Church never had need of a reformation. The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church has withstood the assualts of the Romans, the Ottomans, the Communists and now the fundie naysayers. It will continue until the Bridegroom returns for His Bride. Your claims are without foundation and little more than wistful, imaginative thinking.

It was built by Christ - Matthew 16:18.
The saved are added to the church - Acts 2:47.
Jesus shed His blood for the church - Acts 20:28; Ephesians 5.
The church is where we learn of God's wisdom - Ephesians 3:10.
The church is the body of Christ - Ephesians 5:23.
The Lord's church worships in spirit and in truth - John 4:24.
The church of Christ only follows the Bible -2 John 9-11; Mark 7:6-7.
The Lord only built one church - Ephesians 4:4-6.
The Lord's church is not a denomination - 1 Corinthians 1:10

 
From:
http://www.pagestoyou.com/

Jesus shed His blood for the church - Acts 20:28; Ephesians 5.

Acts 20:17.  And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
 18.  And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
 19.  Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
 20.  And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
 21.  Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
 22.  And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
 23.  Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
 24.  But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
 25.  And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
 26.  Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
 27.  For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
 28.  Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
 29.  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
 30.  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 Ephesians 5:25.  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
 26.  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
 27.  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


 Christ shed His blood to sanctify whosoever will come to Him, and they in turn are members of His body, this is the church, which are the saved.
Obedience to God sanctifies one through Christs blood and adds one to His church, the saved.

The church is the koinonia of God's people in the world. Here is where we especially see the church as a means that the Holy Spirit uses to make Christ really present. The church is the people of God in the world for the salvation of the world. The church is the koinonia of Christ in the world to make Christ really present in and for the world. The church is the people of God in mission.

To discuss the mission of the church, we need to define three terms: Dominion of God, church, and world.

The Dominion or Reign of God is the final goal of the whole creation in Christ by the Spirit in which all creation is finally liberated from all bondage to alienation and death. Jesus' proclamation centred on announcing the presence of the Dominion. The Reign of God is the primary reality toward which the Spirit is drawing all creation.

The world is creation, the arena for the realization of the Dominion, but which now lives under the domination of alienation and death. Thus the world currently exists in a duality as that which God is acting to save and as that which opposes God's act of salvation.

In this context we see the church - the people of God in Christ by the Spirit whose life revolves around the proclamation and enacting of the Gospel and who is called into mission in the world - is that part of the world which by the work of the Spirit and in the Spirit has accepted the Reign of God as primary reality. The church is the koinonia where the memory of the Dominion in Christ and the hope of the Reign in the Spirit is alive. The church is not itself the Dominion, but it is, like Christ's words and actions, a sign of the presence of the Reign of God.

Because the world is both being saved and resisting salvation, and because the church is a sign of the presence of the Dominion but not itself the Reign, the church always exists in some tension with both the world and the Dominion.

If the church and the world are too closely identified, then the church becomes a mere institution which cannot save anyone from alienation and death because it itself is only a part of the systems of alienation and death. Such a church is an enemy of salvation and works against the coming Reign of God.

On the other hand, if the church assumes itself to be identified with the Dominion, it becomes an institution of Platonic triumphalism which either separates itself from the world - the very world God has sent the church to save - or establishes itself as an alternative source of worldly power. In either case such a church is an enemy of salvation and works against the coming Rule of God.

In its history the church has fallen prey to both of these temptations, and sometimes both at once. The church is not sent to confuse itself with the world or with the Dominion, but to be a sign of the presence of God's future in the midst of the world.

Thus we speak of the church as the means of the Spirit to make Christ really present in the world. The Reign of God is present whenever Christ is present, for Christ not only announces this rule, Christ is the Dominion of God. The Reign of God is fulfilled when all creation is brought by the Spirit under the Lordship of Christ. The role of the church is to be used by the Spirit to make Christ really present in and for the world. Since the goal of history is bringing all creation into Christ, the focus of the church can never be inward, but is always outward: outward into the world and for the world.

The church is never self-centred, but always world-oriented. Survival of the church is not the issue - God has already promised that the people of God in Christ by the Spirit will exist until the Dominion is fulfilled - the issue is mission. The reason for the church's existence is to be used by the Holy Spirit to communicate the Gospel in words and in actions for the salvation of the world. The church is the koinonia of Christ in mission

God called the church to be a partner people in the world. The partner people had their ups and downs. They were saints and sinners at the same time. Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit molded them into a CONTRAST SOCIETY, a community which reflected the gracious reign of God in a world of oppression and greed. Besides sharing their manna and eating together as Jews and Gentiles, here are some of the counterculture ways they followed:

1. Slaves and "free people" gathered as equals, all one in Christ. There were no hierarchies, no big deals and little deals. One person's talent or ability was not judged better than another's. Each believer used what was his or her gift or charisma for the building up of the whole body. This "living for the whole" was called LOVE (Rom 12.1-8, 1 Cor 12.14-31, 13.1-13, Gal 3.28, Gal 5.13-14, Col 3.12- 17).

2. Leadership was not a position of personal power or prestige. It was one of many servant gifts which were bestowed by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit did not consider social status or gender in the giving of this charisma. Therefore, men were leaders in some communities, and women were leaders in others (Rom 16.1-16, 1 Cor 12.1-13, Phil 4.2-3).

3. The followers of THE WAY sunned the immoral and hedonistic ways of the Empire. They refused to participate in events which were contrary to the Spirit and teaching of Jesus—events where violence was glorified, where slaves killed animals and other slaves for the entertainment of the masses. Christians also practiced simplicity and moderation in the midst of a society which found its joy at the local Roman shopping mall (Gal 5.16-26, 1 Cor 6.9-10, Rev 18.11- 14).

4. In a world which considered sickness to be the result of fate, bad luck, or punishment, the followers of Jesus continued his ministry of healing the sick, cleansing the lepers, and casting out demons. These wonderful works were signs of the reign of God, evidence that all the powers which hold humans in bondage have been defeated by the death and resurrection of Jesus (Jn 9.1-3, Acts 3.1-10, Jas 5.13- 15).

5. In a world which believed in revenge and the power of the sword, the believers refused to retaliate or defend themselves, even when threatened by death. Instead they loved their enemies as Jesus had taught them (Rom 12.14-21, 1 Pet 2.21-25, 3.9-12).

6. In a world of greed, the Christians gathered food for the hungry both inside and outside their fellowship. They did what they could to make the whole world a manna society.

7. In both Jewish and Gentile societies, where women had few rights and where the marriage covenant was easily broken, the followers of Jesus place high value on purity and faithfulness within the marriage relationship. The men remembered how Jesus had treated women—with dignity, respect, welcoming them as equal partners in the life of God's reign (Jn 4.1-42, Eph 4.21-33, 1 Pet 3.7).

8. In a world which believed in the strict separation of spirit and flesh, which considered spiritual things good and physical things evil, the believers celebrated GOD IN FLESH—in water, bread and wine, in all creation! (Jn 1.14, 1 Cor 11.23-27, Eph 1.23, 1 Tim 3.16)

9. In a Roman society which was cynical about death, the followers of Jesus celebrated the promise of resurrection. Their hope was in Christ who lives as the first fruit of all who sleep (1 Cor 15.1-58).

When the risen people failed to live as a contrast society, God raised up teachers and preachers to call them back (1 Cor 1.10—4.21, 11.17-24). The partner people returned and received power to begin again. They were renewed in their calling to live as God's people in a world of oppression and greed (Rom 12.1-2).

[quote author=ollie

(removed)

Not sure, but you seem very angry, Why? I don't completely under stand your post. Standing up for God's truth and those that mock it in return are agitators. There are some of such in this forum. It was not addressed at you, but this thread reply has me wondering?    ???  ???
******

John here:
OK, you asked twice that I should go back & read the thread?
Some of these are so small in print that it is hard to do so. And then there are some perhaps toooo long? :) (no offense intended)

I did catch some questions to you & some answers. From my end at least, it appears that if any dis/agree with your 'church' understanding, then they are either off thread, agitators, or as you say to me above? "That this thread reply has you wondering?"--"Or that I seem angry?"

And lets not forget the worst offence in this reply? You do not know me, at least to my knowledge?  NOTHING is known about my LOVE RELATIONSHIP with my Master? And vice/versa. A letter arives on the forum, perhaps two, three, a dozen?? And then you tell me that the 'thread reply has you wondering?'

And then you suggest that I sound angry? Wow, you are a mind reader even, & can see inside of ones heart to! In ALL HONESTY YOU [SOUND] *DANGEROUS TO ME!

I suggest that NO one can read minds, but One! And surely you are not trying to read ones motives, are you? God/Forbid!

Yet, with all of the letters behind this one by you that I was told to read, if they were ALL TRUE, that there is a true FOLD, Church, denomination, and that you are presenting it to others as directed by God??? Is that it? The bottom line??

Then if it is, I suggest that you STUDY EZE. 9 for THIS TRUE CHURCH ENDING! :'( And Matt. 25:6 for its 'FOLLOWING CHRIST OUT OF IT' before the door of probation closes on these Virgin in doctrine ones (only) for good! verse 11-12 ibide. And 1 Peter 4:17? Naw, perhaps to deep for you?

That of course is IF your understanding was correct? And of course it is not. Unless you do not fall in the class of the Rev. 3:16-17 ones who your many 'posts' honestly sound like? Who say, that they 'have need of nothing'. (yet they ARE BLIND, *NAKED, WRETCHED, MISERABLE!-you know, angry.)

Now in closing this out. God through 'Inspiration' tells 'all of life' who it is that [ARE HIS!] I doubt that you even claim to keep the Commandments of God? But, yes, just perhaps you are not there yet?? By that, I mean that  you have been going on & on with 'some Gospel' and maybe that you are still in first gear with the reams & reams of postings?? (Yes, 'i' know... agitators) But there IS A MATT. 28:20!

But be that as it may? God tells us aLL who the saved will be! Rev. 12:17 ".. the Remnant of her (*CHRIST'S TRUE CHURCH)  seed, which [KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS]." And the others?? Read 1 John 2:4 & Isaiah 8:20, & God Himself will dispose of these false teaching ones as seen in Obadiah 16!!

---John  

You say:
" ... let us carry on the discussion of Christ's church as revealed in the bible"
Did you read Re. 12:17? Surely the verse is on the thread topic?

And the post after mine? With No reply from the Christian members to that one from here? Is it any wonder that I had asked the question of...  are there any sincere seekers here?

I read about a duck walking, quacking a while back? ???
Then I see rebukes to some who do not seem to need it, & then rebuke that is missing, from those who anyone can see needed it?

Surely the old saying has some truth in it that.. we are judged by the company that we keep?

But do get back to 'your' post as you desire.

Forum:
If there be any one who desires a work on 'The True Church & Peter being the Rock?' Drop me a line at the below site & just request it. It contains the needed scripture.

pastornb@cherco.net

---John

(removed)
I seemed to have lit some spark in you because of this. So I ask your forgiveness for whatever I may have done,and let us carry on the discussion of Christ's church as revealed in the Bible.

In the love of Christ,
Ollie
**********
Hi, John here:

What has been missing since the apostate, paganistic, traditions of men, church took over is the good news of Jesus Christ to be preached in truth, not adulterated, and people obeying it so once more they could be added to the true church such as should be saved. With this came a visible assembly of the church as Christians are told to assemble together.

The above statement is very revealing of the inconsistency of many fundamentalists. The claim that the early Church apostacized as the so-called "traditions of men" took over and that at some later point a "visible assembly of the church" came about runs contrary to scripture and contrary to history.

Any and all Protestant sects (even the silly Trail of Blood Baptists who have no visible proof for their statements other than their own say-so) can be shown historically to have begun long, long after the first millennium. For the most part, a good 1500 years transpired before the Reformation. Christ said He would build His Church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Thus, to claim that the Church apostacized and that it was only with the coming of the Reformers that the Church was gotten "back on the tracks" so to speak, is to fly in the face of scripture. It is also to run completely against historical facts. The Orthodox Church can demonstrate historically and factually that it has been there from the earliest days.

Ollie... Christ's Church never had need of a reformation. The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church has withstood the assualts of the Romans, the Ottomans, the Communists and now the fundie naysayers. It will continue until the Bridegroom returns for His Bride. Your claims are without foundation and little more than wistful, imaginative thinking.

Ollie, What denomination are you?

Well... if you take a look in another discussion folder you'll discover that our Ollie gives a resounding AMEN Brother to a discourse on humility. Then in a typical two-faced manner he does a 180 degree and slams me and the Orthodox Church. How do you spell hypocrite, Nostalghia? I spell it: O... L... L... I... E.

Well... let's allow that little slip of Christian praxis to pass. After all... most of them find it far easier to talk about the fruits of the Christian life than to actually apply them to their own lives.

So, which of the 30,000 + denominations is your cuppa, Ollie?  ;)

I have never heard of such a thing.  How can the Church be restored?  I do not understand this movement at all.  How can the Church fall, when the Gates of hell cannot prevail against her?  Id like your answer Ollie, and describe to me the doctrines of this Cambellite church, and I will look at your persuations honestly.  How can one claim to be "THE" Church of God, and yet have started its existence in the 20th century? What Church would this be?  And how could you use the Bible as a blueprint, when the Bible was not intended to be used as a blueprint for the Church- like the OT, becuase they already had the Church at the time the NT was written!  There was no need to write down the practices in epistles that are dealing with specific problems.  But I will accept your reasoning, brother!  Just tell me!

Ollie,
I was not being in any way cynical when asking you which denomination you belong to.  Please note that I am speaking humbly, and I speak to you as a brother in Christ. I realize we are all searching for the same thing, and that I am first among sinners, so please do not think I am writting in a way to be insulting, or from arrogance.  
I think we all realize that Christ's truth is Objective, and the second you say "My interpretation" or "My opinion" it becomes subjective.  Since God is the same forever, if any Truth of God's is subjective, God no longer exsists.  This is clear.
All we can know from God is directly revealed to us from the person of the Holy Spirit.  Even the interpretation of the Scriptures must be taken only from the Holy Spirit, knowing that they do not interpret themselves- however this is the wrong thread for that argument.

Now,  I was just asking the question becuase this is important.  I belong to an evangelical church, if you are wondering, and I have no reason to hide this, or the fact that I am examining Orthodoxy.  Of course the definition of the Church is the Body of Christ, I believe this with all my heart!  In fact, we share His flesh and Blood, and thus in this mystery we are united with His resurrected body as One.  When I asked what denomination are you, I was wondering what physical church you goto.  Do you goto church? I do not think this is irrelavant, since we are the Body of Christ- unless you are a Monophysite, and believe that God was only spirit and not body.  The Christian teaching and tradition states that God had a physical Body, and was at the same time 100% spirit. (see the 4th council at Chalcedon) In this way, His Church is also made up of physical believers, in the flesh- just as he *really* was fully man.  It is a physical church mystically united in spirit.  Do you disagree with this statement.  Id love to hear your thoughts on this!

And of course the Bible is still not God.

The church of Christ only follows the Bible -2 John 9-11; Mark 7:6-7.
The Lord only built one church - Ephesians 4:4-6.
The Lord's church is not a denomination - 1 Corinthians 1:10

The church of Christ only follows the Bible -2 John 9-11; Mark 7:6-7.
The Lord only built one church - Ephesians 4:4-6.
The Lord's church is not a denomination - 1 Corinthians 1:10

Ollie, I like much of what you're saying about the church.  I've said a lot of the same myself.

I have two questions for you.

1.  How do you practically work out what you are describing.  If you attend a local congregation, then unless it's the only congregation in your town, are you not participating in a division?

2.  Do you have any Scripture that says the church follows only the Bible?  Those two passages you gave say we are to follow God.  They say nothing about the Bible.

Since the sons of God are led by the Spirit of God, not the Bible, and since the pillar and support of the Truth is the Church, not the Bible, then why should I believe that the family of God, the pillar and support of the Truth, follows the Bible rather than what it is led into by the Spirit?

It is through faith that one accepts the Bible as the word of God. Just as in the first century they heard these same words and believed. Today we can not only hear but read and believe.

 2 Timothy 3:16.  All scripture, (Jewish scriptures at this point in time),
******
John here: About your above remark? :'(
Is not CHRIST'S WORD ETERNAL??? And that does include ETERNITY!  *WITH NO STARTING POINT! 'Me' thinks so! Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20 were not in 'print' as yet either. It is STILL FACT! :)

Try 1 Peter 4:17 for the 'not in print' FIRST JUDGEMENT of Israel of old! Yet, 1 Peter IS Everlasting Gospel! See Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15

---John
******  


is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 17.  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Scripture is given by inspiration of God therefore the word of God.
This scripture was not refered to as "a book" until it was all compiled and made "a book". The Jews had there scriptures already compiled and to it was added the testament of Jesus Christ.


 Romans 15:6.  That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
There must be unity no division in Christ's church.

It is through faith that one accepts the Bible as the word of God. Just as in the first century they heard these same words and believed. Today we can not only hear but read and believe.

 2 Timothy 3:16.  All scripture, (Jewish scriptures at this point in time),
******
John here: About your above remark? :'(
Is not CHRIST'S WORD ETERNAL??? And that does include ETERNITY!  *WITH NO STARTING POINT! 'Me' thinks so! Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20 were not in 'print' as yet either. It is STILL FACT! :)

Try 1 Peter 4:17 for the 'not in print' FIRST JUDGEMENT of Israel of old! Yet, 1 Peter IS Everlasting Gospel! See Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15

---John
******  


is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 17.  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Scripture is given by inspiration of God therefore the word of God.
This scripture was not refered to as "a book" until it was all compiled and made "a book". The Jews had there scriptures already compiled and to it was added the testament of Jesus Christ.


 Romans 15:6.  That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
There must be unity no division in Christ's church.

It is through faith that one accepts the Bible as the word of God.

Just as in the first century they heard these same words and believed. Today we can not only hear but read and believe.

There are to be no divisions in Christ's church. There is to be no participation in strife and divivisions. Many times there will be only one congregation in town.

(removed for quote only)

you're saying, and you have no practical advice whatsoever to help them.

I know, because I've seen many so confused they eventually became a church unto themselves, just their family in their own house, with maybe a couple friends, just one more fragment, worse fragmented than even the denominations.

It doesn't have to be like that.  Do you have a suggestion for the many who believe like you but have no idea how to carry it out?  Or for the arrogant who claim to, but who end up alone, never being exhorted daily, and thus hardened by the deceitfulness of sin?

Faith in what?  Even the Bible doesn't say it's the Word of God.  I asked you for a reference, and you answered with "it's through faith."  The Bible says Christ is the Word of God.  If you think the Bible is inspired by God, then at least listen to it and say what it says.  Christ is the Word of God, and he cannot be contained in a book.


In the first century they heard way more words than you heard and believed.  You have a very, very small portion of what Paul called the Word of God.  He mentions other letters he wrote, and he said that all the things he commanded were the Word of God, not just the ones in the few letters we have.

In Thessalonians, he says that he brought the Word of God whenever he spoke.  Those things are not all written down.  God's Word cannot be contained in a book.  Even the small percentage of his deeds that were done in the 3 year ministry of Christ would overflow many books.

The Bible says that we shall live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, not a few Words that once proceeded from the mouth of God.

Christianity today is in the shambles it is, because of a lack of the Word of God, because against the Scriptures they limit the Word of God to the Scriptures.

And your comment that the Spirit of God is the Word of God is another violation of Scripture.  You use a lot of assumptions that are in conflict with the Bible to back up your view of the Bible.


So the person who wants to agree with what you say and do the things you say should go hunt down some rare small town in the USA, if it can be done, in which there is only one congregation so that they can avoid participating in strife and division?

The average Christian, even if he agreed with your interpretation of things, would collapse from confusion trying to carry out what you're saying, and you have no practical advice whatsoever to help them.

I know, because I've seen many so confused they eventually became a church unto themselves, just their family in their own house, with maybe a couple friends, just one more fragment, worse fragmented than even the denominations.

It doesn't have to be like that.  Do you have a suggestion for the many who believe like you but have no idea how to carry it out?  Or for the arrogant who claim to, but who end up alone, never being exhorted daily, and thus hardened by the deceitfulness of sin?

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Hi Truthseeker, John here: (my emphasis added)

You have suggested that the truth is that the above are arrogrant, who end up alone, and thus hardened by the deceitfulness of sin? Or that they have no idea how to carry it out?

Friend, that is what happened to PERFECTION in all ages past!
See Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15. (if one believes God's Word) But if you read your comment above, you have tossed this reformatory [hard work] out as 'wrong'? :'( (you make it even harder!)

Read Jer. 15 for starters. In verse 19 the Lord told Jere..."IF thou RETURN, then will I BRING THEE AGAIN, and thou shalt stand BEFORE ME; and [[IF]] thou take forth the PRECIOUS FROM THE VILE, thou shalt be AS MY MOUTH; let them return UNTO THEE; [BUT RETURN NOT THOU UNTO THEM]."

(sounds similar Rev. 18:4 to me!)

And verse 17? & verse 15's last part? "... Know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke'  ?

"I sat not IN THE ASSEMBLY of the MOCKERS, nor REJOICED; I SAT ALONE because of THY HAND, FOR [THOU] HAST FILLED ME WITH INDIGNATION."

So far it might sound as you are telling us? But now read verse 16!
"Thy WORDS were found, and I DID EAT THEM; and thy Word WAS UNTO UNTO ME THE JOY AND REJOICING OF MINE HEART: FOR I AM CALLED BY THY NAME, O LORD GOD OF HOSTS." (personally friend, this is my 'desire' also!)

This is a TOUGH work for the 'servants' of God. You will be called Beezelbub (Matt. 10:25) Christ tells one! (or asked if you are on druggs, perhaps ? ;)) Yet, as you seem to understand 27-34 AD's seven year time period, maybe? you can see that this is again EXACTLY what CHRIST DID!

A new denomination came foward! Matt. 23:38's past Virgin denomination became DESOLATE of Christ, and who then took over? (try the repeat of Rev. 3:9-and you say that this is better than seperation & being with Christ??)

This took time! READ Matt. 10:5 & 6 on, for Israels 'MIDNIGHT CRY". (from Matt. 25's parable) 70 AD's loud cry slaughter came 39 yrs. in the furture. Christ & Paul told us there was to be NO MORE 39 years this time around! (it WILL be cut short in Rightousness)

OK: It is time to ORGANIZE. All that a tiny denomination of 144.000 will need is to be once again persecuted by the Mother as was seen in Sauls case. Read the Matt. 10:23's ENDING! (by the way, Christ was already there speaking!)
This IS HAPPENING now.

The increased knowledge was not given to watch ball games with! TV & Satalite will be watched in wonderment as the Virgin Mother persecute the Rev. 12:17 'Philadelphian Remnant ones' worldwide. This is what will climax the TRUTH. Both having claimed the truth in Virgin doctrine, (as in Christ's Israel of old! see Matt. 23:3) while the 'few' are being locked up & persecuted in the NAME OF CHRIST & with the same professed Belief?

Very soon, after what, 6 months, or maybe a year? We see the VERDICT. But remember that as the WORLD WAS WATCHING as they did the O.J. Simpson trial & the 'short war' just completed, the Holy Spirit is being Shed About! And the 'hell' of 's'atan is being seen day by day escalating. (little time of trouble leading up to the 7 last plagues)

It is NOW that the 'c'hristian world [unit] for their last stand! A worldwide Sunday lay. It starts with the US first. They will do anything to get out of God's JUDGEMENTS! But this is the easy one, huh? They mostly agree here anyway!

Some teach that the 144000 Philadelphains are not united into a denomination? If this is so, then I want no part with these ones either! Christ HAS AN ORGANIZED DENOMINATION AT THIS TIME OF HIS SECOND COMING! So TEACHES HIS WORD! Matt. 16:19 & Matt. 18:*15-18. And where did Christ send Saul in Acts 9:6? "MUST DO".

Remember: The WORD IS, John 10:16! Eph. 4:5! and the ENDING is Rev. 18:4! Join what??? Some 'loose canon' with NO GOSPEL ORDER? Hardly! That is what was done in heavens rebellion! Is this going to be counterfeited by satan, surely! It already is being, as seen in the Armstrongs group.
(WHAT IS NEW? God asks!)

Well friend, this is where we are at! We will 'see' how the Lord now leads? Rom. 8:14-Acts 5:32. Do you feel the burden in leading out in this ORGANIZATION?

I am in South Carolina, and am just short of 71. Another older Christian, who is an ex/ordained elder of  the Seventh-day Adventist denomination from Calif. visited us some time back & asked if I would lead out in this work? I suspect that the Master has His God fearing [young'ins] from modern Israel of old, who are somwhat like the twelve, which had the seed sown that will be quickly brought to the for/front?  Remember that two were defined by Christ as the 'sons of thunder'? And Peter & his non/converted foul mouth? And even one more huh? Saul (Paul) who did escape, if even if by the skin of his teeth. (so to speak)
But we see in one chapter that he was a killer, and in a verse or two on, he surrenders his stubborn will to Christ! This is where we are AT TODAY!

Hang in there, or [do] as the Holy Spirit LEADS YOU!

---John

PS: By the way, there is plenty of working space in the Carolinas! We even have several seperates country ac.'s.    

You have suggested that the truth is that the above are arrogrant, who end up alone, and thus hardened by the deceitfulness of sin? Or that they have no idea how to carry it out?

Mardis,

That's great that you believe wholeheartedly with Ollie.  Let me ask you the same question I asked him.  How does a person become part of that church?  I don't mean spiritually be saved and join it.  I mean be able to partake of its fellowship, its daily exhortation, its calling nothing its own and sharing everything, its joy, its assemblies?

One can go participate in a division, picking the best division one can find, but Gal 5:19-21 suggests that divisions, schisms, and factions are works of the flesh.  How exactly does one meet with the one church.  Where is it, as in WHAT IS ITS ADDRESS?

Truth seeker,
I agree with you that Ollie's [POSTS} are empty, and contain Heb. 5's milk!
---John
 
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Christ is revealed through God's word to us and what we must do to receive Him and that is sufficient. Nothing else is needed. God has revealed in His word all that is necessary for worship, praise, prayer, SALVATION, REDEMPTION, how to receive the Holy Spirit, His love toward us through Jesus Christ, etc., etc. The word of God is complete for the man of God to be thoroughly furnished unto the works of God.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and always eternally!

What has God left out that man needs?

Of course, there are many other characteristics of the Lord's church given in the Bible.  However, these were listed simply to illustrate that we can know what the church is to be in worship, doctrine, benovolence, etc.  There are churches of Christ in many states across America and in other countries as well.

The Lord's church is not a denomination - 1 Corinthians 1:10
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John here:
So says Ollie! ??? But what does the Master say, do, & teach, is what matters?!
A FOLD is an organized denomination! Call it what you will??
Sanctuary, Tabernacle, Fold, True Fold, Whore, Harlots, VIRGIN FOLD!

Ollie's post's are playing the Jesuit game, of word games! See 2 Cor. 2:4 (are you a jesuit?)
See 2 Cor. 6:14-18 in REGARDS to [ANY YOKE]. Marriage, clubs, unions, DENOMINATION or any church membership! (of error) Rev. 18:4 is AGAINST your post!

Christ came to His OWN FOLD! John 1. He tells us that there are other FOLDS in John 10:16! HE WAS A GOD OF ORDER!! COMPLETE ORGANIZATION! See Eph. 4:11-16! He tells us that THE DENOMINATION (VIRGIN-CHURCH-FOLD) are [INTRUSTED WITH THE HEAVENLY ZION'S DENOMINATION CHURCH KEY'S]!! What [WE BIND or LOOSE] on earth as a denomination, [WILL BE DONE IN HEAVEN'S ZION] WHEN THE FOLD IS OBEYING CHRIST'S WORD!! Matt. 16 & Matt. 18.

Your teaching is the TROUBLE with professed Christianity, a [LOOSE CANNON] that takes ORDERS FROM NO ONE! (except Gen. 4:7) This is the same theology as we see that was carried on in the first rebellion! {{NO LAW!}} We are not UNDER ANY EVERLASTING GOSPEL AND EVERLASTING *COVENANT ORDERS! (CONDITIONS!)

Paul, upon his [GENTILE CONVERSION] WAS SENT TO THE CHURCH DENOMINATION BY **CHRIST HIMSELF!! FOR HEALING & OTHER [[COMMANDED]] CONDITIONS! (True Virgin EARTHLY FOLD---WHY, WHY, WHY FORUM??)

The ONLY ONES SAVED will have ALL OF these ORGANIZED TRAITS of Rev. 12:17 & Rev. 3:10's KEPT ONES FROM THE 666 [TESTING]! Where else would the Rev. 18:4 ones go??

AND: Until this is a UNIFIED DOCTRINE, the Master WILL NOT COME!

John
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It is not denominated. Christ's church is of God not men.

It is!
When you accept the Son of God He adds you to it.