ChristiansUnite Forums

Restore the Constitution and Our Religious Liberty!
 
Not since the ink dried on the U.S. Constitution has our liberty been at such great risk. Last summer's travesty of justice against the Ten Commandments monument in Alabama was a direct assault on the Constitution's guarantees of freedom of speech, free exercise of religion and freedom from federal interference in matters reserved to the people and the states.

Your help is needed to stop black-robed tyrants from turning America into an atheist state that actively persecutes religious believers!
Please  go to ConservativePetitions.com to see what is at stake. Here's the address:
http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=266

Our situation is dire, yet it offers a great moment of opportunity to turn things around! Our Constitution can and must be restored if we are to halt the same kind of tyrannical violations of God-given rights that America was founded to prevent. Here is where to help restore our Constitution and our liberty:
http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=266

Will you boldly stand up and speak out against this judicial
dictatorship and government-sanctioned religious persecution? Then sign a petition in support of the "Constitution Restoration Act of 2004" --
H.R. 3799 and S. 2082 now before Congress.

Then join us in an effort to educate fellow citizens on how our
Constitution is being abused and what is needed to make it right. Help move your brethren to action that will defend the integrity of the Constitution and thus protect our right of religious expression! Here again is where to join the fight:
http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=266

Keep Faith!

Alan Keyes
Chairman
The Declaration Alliance

P.S. Let it be said of us that when time came to stand up for the Word of God, and to protect our constitutional order, we the people of America heard the call. Don't let our Founders' vision of religious freedom -- untrammeled by government -- be ground under the heel of unelected, atheist judges. Act now! And pray for God to touch hearts and create a loud outcry that cannot be ignored at:
http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=266

Pray for God to touch hearts and create a loud outcry that cannot be ignored
amen crusader!



On November 6, 2003, the Family Independence Agency (FIA) of Michigan initiated a halt on the inflow of referred children coming to Teen Ranch, a fully licensed and state-approved residential and foster care placement organization. This moratorium was established after an FIA official objected to the 37-year-old organization’s practice of incorporating faith when helping neglected, abused, and troubled youth between the ages of 11 and 17.

Who’s Next?

Dr. D. James Kennedy, president and founder of the CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA, stated, “This case is particularly dangerous because if a state-funded foster care organization can be barred from offering Christian counseling and other faith-based programs to its children, then it is increasingly likely that such restrictions could extend to individual Christian foster parents.”


http://www.reclaimamerica.org/Pages/News/newspage.asp?story=1511

Hi Crusader,  :)

Will you be voting for Michael Peroutka the Constitution Party
candidate in the upcoming presidential election in Nov? I know that I am going to vote for him.

http://tinyurl.com/37sea

He may not get in office, but at least I will be voting in a way I will not have to be ashamed.

God
bless

 ;) This url gives more info on the Constitution Party Candidate. http://tinyurl.com/2vs72

 Who knows if God may not have brought this man up for such a time as this?


God
bless

Thanks,

 It is nice to be reminded there  ARE some good guys out there....



I have had the pleasure of hearing Dr. Keyes speak in person. The man is spell binding. His cause is just....

The constitution never went away.  The interpretation of the constitution has been bent to satisfy the unGodly.  Just as the Commandments will never go away simply because they have been outlawed by the same lobby that bends and misinterprets the constitution.  They are the same who take the commandment “You shall not murder” and remove that basic human right from those among us that are the most helpless; the unborn and elderly.  It is up to us to do what we can to make sure we have servants (yes – they are our servants) who will interpret the law as it is meant to be interpreted.

Meant by whom?   The (secular) law belongs to the current citizens of the country, not people who died a couple of hundred years ago

The way Americans seem to regard those who originally wrote your consititution as though they were divinely inspired is incomprehensible to the rest of the world.

Ebia,
I could care less what “the rest of the world” thinks about American's and our views of our founding fathers.  American's opinions of those who 'dis' us is probably somewhat lower.

I contend that the U.S. Constitution was, in fact, divinely inspired in that the Founding Fathers did have deep faith and did keep God in mind when writing it.

97% of the founding fathers were practicing Christians and exercised their faith in public office, at work, at home, and had it taught to their children in their schools. 187 of the first 200 colleges in America were Christian, Bible teaching institutions. Entrance to Harvard required strong knowledge of the Bible. The money was printed, "One Nation Under God." Noah Webster wrote the dictionary with Bible verses explained so children could understand the words of God and know the truth of Jesus Christ. Webster even wrote a translation of the Bible for the American speaking people.  (Source: http://www.christianparents.com)

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention." George Washington

"Let...statesmen and patriots unite their endeavors to renovate the age by...educating their little boys and girls...and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system." Samuel Adams

"History will also afford frequent opportunities of showing the necessity of a public religion...and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." Benjamin Franklin

"Only one adequate plan has ever appeared in the world, and that is the Christian dispensation." John Jay

"The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians." John Quincy Adams

Also, I contend that today’s interpretations of the Constitution are by and for a minority of the “thinkers” and do not represent the majority of American opinion.
 
All polls show that a majority are against abortion.  
All poles show that a majority want “…under God” left in the Pledge.  
All polls show that the majority approve of prayer in school.  
All polls show that the majority believe our laws are based on the Ten Commandments and also believe the Commandments should be displayed in court rooms.  
All polls indicate that the majority believe American Judges are ‘legislating from the bench’ to appease the ACLU.

Of course - since you are not American (I don't think??) I don't expect you to understand any of this, and I don't hold you in low regard for not understanding the American mind.
Also - since you are not American, I should say that the 5 quotes, above (if you don't recognize the names) are all from American founding fathers - just 5 quotes of hundreds from the founding fathers confirming Jesus Christ as Lord and that He was in their minds and hearts as they wrote the document in question.

God bless,
JN

I wasn't "dis"ing anyone.  I mealy said it's incomprehensible to the rest of us that you would put that level of confidence in any group of people, however impecable their credentials.

I don't doubt that they were men of deep faith, and that they did their best to serve God and their country.  It does not follow that they were divinely inspired.  The US consitution isn't the bible, and those men weren't infalliable.

This is rather more to the point, but opinion polls are notoriously unreliable.
 


I'm not an American, but I'm not an idiot.

You might try to sound like you mean that.

I recognise 4 out of 5, and I could have guessed the other.

I don't doubt it, but men have had God "in their minds and hearts" and gone on to write some extreamly falliable documents.

If Americans would reguard those men as such this nation would be doing well. I am deeply saddened that those men and their sacrifice is so quickly disreguarded by folks who call them selfs Americans.

LOL, Ebia!
If this forum had sound I'm certain you would hear the sincerity in my voice.  :D  :D

Do we need a bill like this :

http://www.renewamerica.us/commandments/legislation/hr3799.htm

Why ?  Does the first ammendment not provide adequate protection ?

Alnilam

Alnilam,
Let’s see if the following can help you answer your question for yourself:

The First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

First of all, most normal thinking individuals who can plainly read English know that the first phrase, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...” clearly means that the government is prohibited from making a religion (such as Catholicism or Presbyterianism) “The Official Government Religion”.  This clause was inserted because of the status of The Church of England at that time, and the subsequent outlawing of any other denominations.  However, ‘modern day’ (secular humanist) thinking believes it means that the name God or anything having to do with God should be forbidden from public display in public spaces.  With the power of the ACLU, the secular humanists are winning in the courts.
Second of all, the phrase “…or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;…” does NOT include, according to those same secular humanists, acknowledgement of God.  

Thank you JudgeNot,

I would carry the interpretation of the establishment clause a little further to say that government is not to favor (or dis-favor) one or more religions over others.  In essence, government is to be neutral regarding religion.  Do you agree ?

There are limits to "free" speach but I do not feel these limits would include the mention of God, but would deal with things like libel for example.  So far, I do not see the mention of God being outlawed or repressed in and on its' own.  If you would provide one or more examples we could discuss it (them).

I do not find this bill to be a good one for a number of reasons.  For one, it violates the checks and balances our founding fathers intended.  Eliminating past cases from being used as precedent seems a very bad thing.  

If you read the bill I'm sure you can imagine situations where it could "backfire" on its' supporters.

Thanks !

Alnilam

Ebia says: Hmm.  We put a lot of confidence in Church leaders – particularly the early ones, you know – that "group of people" called the disciples. :D  
It is actually our founder's wisdom we Americans hold in such high regard.  Not necessarily the individuals themselves.

No it isn’t the Bible.  But the Bible was used to write it.  I didn’t say they were infallible.  They were human.  Only God is infallible.

Yes – unreliable.  That’s why everyone keeps using them.

Nope.  I’m not a name caller, and I didn’t call you an idiot.  I’m sure you know about as much of American History and politics as I know of Australian History and politics – in other words, I certainly wouldn’t even pretend to be able to debate you about your country’s history and policies.  That would be kind of like what that G. Polya person says is foolish, huh.

Only God is infallible.  However, if you are calling the US Constitution “fallible” then you are on the verge of “dissing” the US.  Are the governing documents in your country better?  Are you worried about the speck in someone else’s eye while you have… well, you get my point.  That also gets back to what that G. Polya person says.

Ebia, I know I’m running the risk of sounding ‘highbrow’ by saying this – but you and I better stick to debating the Bible where we are on more even footing.  When it comes to the US Constitution I am a heavy weight and you don’t qualify to be a flyweight.  I’ve spent years studying the Constitution and the men who wrote it.  You've spent... minutes?

Yours in Christ,
JudgeNot  

Greetings Alnilam,

You said: Yes – pretty close.  The founders made very certain that what they wrote could not be left open to a lot of debate.  In other words, they pretty much said what they meant without getting too wordy.  The problem is that back then, the religion of Atheism was very, very small.  In fact, the founders probably didn’t even recognize it as a religion.  Today, we know it to be a religion.  That’s the problem – the Religion of Atheism is quickly becoming the “Official Government Religion” which is against the constitution.

 
Valedictorians are forbidden from thanking God for their successes at High School graduations.  Children are forbidden to mention Jesus at school during Christmas time.  Pastors are forbidden to speak on anything political (the morals of candidates or bills for example) from the pulpit lest the IRS take their Church’s funds.  The Ten Commandments being removed from courthouses.  The list is almost endless.  I could probably give you hundreds of real-life examples.


Actually – deep in my heart, I don’t either.  I abhor anyone “messing with” the constitution.  What we need to do, as Americans, is to make sure we vote people into office that will quit reading fantasy into the Framer’s words and take them at face value.  As I said in a previous post; the founders were very, very careful to write the constitution in such a way as very little could be left open for debate.  But God-haters always find a way and an audience.  Lawyers will argue anything for a fee.  

Yep.  You are right on the money with that statement.  Look how the First Amendment, even though it is written quite plainly, has backfired!  Shoot, look at the Second Amendment!  (You get it?  “Shoot”…”Second Amendment”???  Ha-ha; I still kill me!)  ;D

Your brother in HIM!
JudgeNot

wow judge i am sorry you divorced me.
 

A statesman!  Sir Statemen Judge ;D

Reba, just for you:
(http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/travesmilies/flaggen1/smilie_flagge13.gif)

PS:  YOU divorced ME

In which case you need to support that without reference to the individuals.  The only reason for regarding their wisdom in high regard that has been given so far IS based on who the individuals were.

You seem, from an outsiders perspective, to treat it with a level of regard non-American Christians would reserve for the bible.


Yes - mostly by people who want to "prove" a conclusion that they have already decided upon.  And the media, who don't care what the conclusion is or how reliable, as long as it makes a good story.

Didn't think you were.

I could be wrong, but I suspect I know quite a bit more about American history and politics than you (or virtually anyone outside Oz) knows about Australia's.  America's politics affect the world, Australia's (on the whole) don't.   According to one or two of those polls you like, a lot of American's don't even know the difference between Austria and Australia (not that I'm putting anyone here in that category), whereas I doubt there are more than a handful of people in the world who don't know something about America.


No I'm not.  I'm saying that, however good it is, it could be better.


I doubt it.  No-one - seriously no-one - outside America holds their documents in that sort of regard.



I'll debate where I choose, thanks.  You may know your facts when it comes to your consititution, but facts aren't wisdom.

I thought you said that the qualities of the individuals who wrote it weren't relevent, make your mind up.

Oklahoma Howdy to JudgeNot,

 ;D  Brother, you must remember that morals, God, and the Holy Bible are foreign subjects to some folks. I'm glad to hear about your lengthy study of the founding of America. I have done the same, and I'm convinced the founding fathers would start another revolution if they saw what happened to their dream.

Judge, after lengthy thought for the last 30 seconds, I've decided that I could care less what people from other countries think about what Christians want or don't want in America. I would take it one step further and say that I could care less what the children of darkness want for America. Christians are still the majority here, and we will vote however we wish.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ebia,

Now it's accurate, including the spelling of Constitution. I tried to ignore the bad grammar.

Hello JudgeNot,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Glad to see we are in general agreement on the first ammendment, and I did appreciate your 2nd ammendment humor.  I guess the question I have to ask now is whether a non-mention of God by government constitutes a promotion of atheism, or, as I would like to think, a sign of respect and sensitivity for all those (not just atheists) who do not share our monotheistic belief ?

Thank you for the examples.  I'm not familiar with the first three, but don't doubt you.  But without having any background I'd feel better not commenting at this time.

The 10 Commandment issue is a good one though.  I've read about cases in Indiana, Wisconsin, Alabama and recently Minnesota.  To be fair, the issue in Deluth has not gone to any court and probably will not do so.  AFAIK, the courts treat each case individually.  Sometimes the commandments were left in place, sometimes not.  The issue in Alabama (Roy Moore) probably got the most media attention.  It might have been better if SCOTUS did hear the appeal (they refused without comment), but I think I understand why they did so.  Did you have a particular case in mind ?

The Newdow case is also an interesting one, questioning the words "under God" in the PoA.  The SCOTUS heard arguments 2 days ago (March 24).  There are religious groups supporting both sides, emotions are running a little high (by court standards anyway), and one justice (Scalia) has recused himself, allowing for a 4-4 tie.  I'm pretty sure a decision either way will not effect me personally, but I am hoping the court does not dismiss the case based on Newdows standing.

God Bless

Alnilam

If this were really true, you wouldn't have felt the need to respond to my post.  :P

My post was to JudgeNot, not you. Besides, I have better funny faces than you do.

http://www.gifs.net/animate/giflist.htm  (http://www.gifs.net/animate/giflist.htm)
http://www.clicksmilies.com  (http://www.clicksmilies.com)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2080/snows.gifs.html  (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2080/snows.gifs.html)
http://www.oksda.com/resources/graphics.htm (http://www.oksda.com/resources/graphics.htm)

 Here are some  fun 'pictures' i still dont have a nack for using them :P  there are tons more  OUT THERE

This:

was to JudgeNot.  I don't thinks so.

Wow.

Ebster,

Now you are quoting from two different posts. The one you quoted from even had JudgeNot's name in it. You must work harder on being precise. And, YES!, my funny faces are much better.

Are you really this thick, or just pretending?  Of course I've been referring to more than one of your posts in some of mine.

I am a little suprised,  we've gone from the subjects of the Constitution and Religious Liberty to who has the best smilies.  Go figure !

Alnilam

Oklahoma Howdy to Alnilam,

We all already know that our religious freedoms have been removed. The ACLU is working on the few left remaining, so WHO HAS THE BEST SMILIES?


A nation or nations turning away from GOD could be a sign of the end times and/or a precursor for just chastisement from Almighty God. Regardless, trying to intellectualize the removal of God isn't very smart.

Love In Christ,
Tom

(http://www.gifs.net/animate/nuclear.gif)

 ;D  You win JudgeNot, and you won 1,000 dance tickets with:

"Shock and Awe"  ;D

Or is that "Awe shucks?"  ???

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

Because  God's people have sat back and done nothing, except wait for rapture, for years.


Luke 19:12-13

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
KJV

Because maybe some of that 86% don't feel its necessary to make the other 14% leave or lie.

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

Brother, that sounds like a winnner! It's about time we did just that.

What would you suggest we do with morally bankrupt non-Americans who wish to tell us what to do?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Because maybe some of that 86% don't feel its necessary to make the other 14% leave or lie.

Reminds me of all the 'tourist' places I've lived in the south. Yankess show up to visit and notice how beautiful it is then decide to stay and try to make it just like the place they left... ::)

Hm.  Nuking them is bad PR – plus we’d get the good with the bad – God did spare Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot had time to ‘retrieve’ the good.  (And even then one of them turned out to be better salt than flesh.)  ;D

Problem nowadays is – if we retrieve them, where do we put them?  ???

Praise the Lord they can’t vote in our elections!  I have a business associate from New Zealand who attempted to tell me who I should vote for in our last presidential election.  I just couldn’t get him to understand that it didn’t matter what he thought.  He also can’t understand why anyone would need something as useless as a second amendment – after all, it is the government's job to protect us.  :-X

Oklahoma Howdy to Sincereheart,

We require visitor's permits for Yankees in Oklahoma. When it runs out, they are open season for hunters. You wouldn't believe how many of them have antlers.   ;D   ;D   ;D

They make horrible looking trophies, and taxidermists charge extra fixing them up.   ;D   ;D   ;D

Just kidding..........

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to JudgeNot,


Brother, we really need you to run for President. I'll vote for you. I really think that any lasting solution to our rights as Christians should be addressed with a Constitutional Convention. We could have one with the proper number of petitions and signatures. All of the wiggle room for the ACLU in our customs, traditions, and religious freedoms should be completely removed. The wiggle room for the Supreme Court and Federal Courts should also be removed so definitely and strictly that the Constitution answers it all, including the instructions for them to butt out and keep their mouths shut.

Brother, I'm far too shy on this. I could easily think of additional requirements that would be quite reasonable.

Love In Christ,
Tom

We used to see the bumper stickers that said:
"If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?"
I liked those.  ;D


Just kidding, too..... sort of!  :-X

Ebia,

That's no problem at all. I'll be happy to write the amendment for them and make it less than 1 page. Those 14% would be hollering like stuck pigs. I would bring the 86% out of the closet and put the 14% in the closet. It would be exceptionally simple. I'd have Congress, the Supreme Court, and etc. singing Amazing Grace as the start of each session just as a starter.   ;)

Those 14% would be hollering like stuck pigs.

ROFL!  :-X