Print Page - Biblical proof for the Rapture

I agree with Psalms 119-

Tim Lahaye is just a storyteller who knows nothing about prophecy. He's a rich man capitalizing on the selling of fear to people who don't study scripture. But the so-called "Church" loves his books regardless. And he's proporting lies, for money. That is the doctrine of devils (diamonion) distributor of fortunes.

Anyone, please name one of God's true prophets that were rich. They were all hated, infamous, threatened, and abased, but they all spoke the same thing.
And the Pope is not infailible, he's a man, dust, nothing greater that any other man. He's voted into the office by other sinful men, not by God.
Jesus said call NO man, Father on the Earth, for one IS your Father which is in Heaven. Matt 23:9
Pope, means "papa" He's just a man, period. I don't take my instruction from "the chair" ex-cathedra.

But from The Lord of Heaven and Earth.

In the Ancient Jewish culture, a man was not considered to be the son of his father, unless he obeyed his father. This can be found in any number of Jewish culture books. And that is who God gave his instruction to, not the pagans nations of later generations. So when Jesus said this, they understood exactly what he meant.

It took hundreds of years for the RCC to evolve ito what the so-called 'Church Fathers' wanted it to be. And they had a great impact on what was put into the Authorized Version of scripture.

Proof. The word Lucifer for example, is a Latin word. How did it find it's way into the Hebrew Old Testament, BEFORE the Latin language? Because of a Catholic translator.

Believe GOD, not man. All men are is corrupted dust.

a mathetes.

Hello friends,

I am wondering if the teaching of the pre or mid trib rapture isn't what will cause the falling away spoken of at 2 Th 2:3.

While many claim there is apostasy going on right now, verse 3, clearly together with 1 Tim 4:1, emphasizes the latter times and is connected with the man of sin the son of perdition.

The Lord and the Apostles clearly taught believers not to allow themselves to be deceived, He said no man knoweth the time nor the hour, yet the pre trib rapture is taught matter of fact.

Consider what could cause falling away (apostasy, departure); in masse, it could very well be people becoming disilusioned when there is no rapture, during tribulation

This is the Apostle Peter says;

2 Peter 3
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Today doctrines confirmed by church councils are treated as thou they be holy writ.

While the exact timing of the rapture is not clear, what is clear is that believers are to be expectant to His return, not allowing themselves to be deceived.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Mat 24:42

Quote from: TEXASGRANDMA on September 11, 2005, 10:04:03 PM

Teaching of the rapture is not causing the falling away. I believe the great falling away is Preachers who have stopped preaching about sin and sinners and instead are focusing on feel good and politically correct sermons.
Jesus is coming for those who are looking for His return.
betty

mmmm!

Grandma,

Are you saying those that fall away, will fall away from feel good politically correct sermons??

The falling away or apostasy is clearly the result of people believing a lie, and this lie is Gods judgement upon them because they did not believe the truth.

Please notice carefully the verses, which are held by those are deceived;

2 Th 2
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Notice verse 9-10, the deception precedes, the judgement, verse 11 makes this very clear.

Clearly in the context of what is being said in this chapter, the apostle is dealing with the false report atributed to some perhaps written (vs 2) by someone close to Paul, claiming the Lord had already come.

Paul rejects this very thought, making it clear that the Day of the Lord will not come unless first there is an apostasy; and secondly the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition is revealed; it is clear from the language at verses 3-6 that his revelation (the man of sisns) would be witnessed by those who are expecting His return because Jesus said ;

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Mat 24:15

The desolation, spoken by Jesus at Mat 24, is not the destruction of Temple at Jerusalem as some would have you believe, but refers to vs 4 of 2Th 2.

Note;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

This clearly seen in the prophecy of Daniel.

Dan 12
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

He goes on to say;

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

This is the second half of the tribulation period.

Do you agree with any of this?

God Bless

This is what I believe. I realize others believe other ways, thats alrighty. I am just stating my convictions.

Listen folks stop putting on that comfort blanket of this pre-trib rapture , and start putting on that armor of God, so that ye may stand!!

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19: And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20: For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
(Ephesians 6:13-20)

It says,"that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." Stand in the evil day????? Put on the armor of God? Withstand?? Does this mean we don't get blasted out of here before it gets bad?? Yes! We will suffer tribulation. Tell the chinese christians they are going to be "raptured" out before it gets bad! They have been persecuted and killed for the Word of God for many years.

Christ doesn't gather the saints from the four corners of the earth untill after tribuation, Not "The 7 year Tribulation". Thats why scripture tells us to endure, to stand! There is serious trouble coming here folks. I believe that believing in this pre-trib rapture is setting you up to unknowingly fall into the trap of the anti-christ, John spoke of. Read revelations, and think about it, not just that Daniel, Joel, Hosea, Thesselonians, etc. also, its all there.

We must endure for Christ and suffer for His names sake. Arn't you ready to suffer for the Saviour Christ who suffered so much for you??? Because of Christ we don't have to go to hell, if call upon His name, and believe! Jesus Christ is the only way.

Now as Christs soldiers we must endure sound doctrine! rightly deviding the word of God. Thats what I have been doing in my christian purifying process. I believed in this pre-trib for many years. It was so hard as I read my KJV bible (the only true word of God in english, all others are perversions) to figure out, ok is this before the rapture or after the raptue in the 7 year tribulation?? Well there was only one choice, in tribuation. Just not, "The tribulatuion".

I now many of think I'm nuts as some of the other good soldiers of Christ have tried to warn you of in earlier posts. But we merely bring you the truth because we care! If we didn't we wouldn't be debating this big doctrinal topic with you. Remember the one who brings you the truth is the one who cares! I have to tell you when you preach against the pre\trib rapture, most christians get very very worked up. I love you guys and pray for you that you will not fall into the trap of the anti-christ and his mark. .

By the way excellant studies brothers, I agree with you guys ( Arpel, curious, Psalam, Phil, one sheep, Tibby, etc.) !! We need us," men of understanding" to band together stand up and shout of the coming of the Christ. Thats why I'm here with you guys. We are so few us last days remnant. Small pockets of true soldiers serving God. We feel very alone as we are attacked by the apostacy, illuminati, , and the ecumenical church followers. But we must endure longsuffering, and tribulation. Thats why we must put on the whole armor of God (Ephesians chapter 6) so that we may stand in that day. Whats the first thing Paul tells us, take heed that ye be not deceived! Deception is everywhere, christians worshipping around spruce trees, colored eggs, and scary costumes. Theses are all adopted from the devil worshipping pagans. We are to worship in Spirit and Truth!! John tells of this spirit of anti-christ which has come into the world. Well its here folks!! And it is going to start killing, and beheading us true soldiers very soon. There are already concentration camps built and ready to use, yes right here in America! They are poisoning our food supply and water supply. They are minipulating weather with chemtrails, and such. Depleted uranium is spreading everywhere. Look we are in serious trouble here folks. Lets put on the whole Armor of God, and go out and win souls for Jesus, the time is short and the harvest is ripening. Soon the tares shall be seperated, from the good grain and burned in the lake of fire. The wheat shall then attend the marrige supper of the Lamb.

But the pharisees the religious leaders sought to kill the apostles and Christ Himself. They claimed they were teaching false doctrine. Just like you some people think of us followers of Christ who are ready and prepaired to suffer for Christ, even be beheaded for Christ. I for one am ready to be the first to give my head, because I will NOT deny my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!!!!

So I have expressed my total faith in a suffering tribulation for all beleivers in the Lord Jesus Christ. I beleive in no rapture! I beleive in the second coming of Jesus Christ!

Soldier of Christ;
Brother Jerm

1 Thessalonians 4:13 NASB But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 NASB For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 NASB For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:18 NASB Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The above portion of Scripture is the Rapture of the Church which is the Body of Christ. One should carefully note that Christ does not come all the way down to the earth for the Rapture, rather the Church is caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The Second Coming of Christ is a completely separate event, and Christ does come all the way down to the earth.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 NASB But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 NASB For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 5:10 NASB who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
1 Thessalonians 5:11 NASB Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

The above portion of Scripture is a beginner's start to understanding that the Church which is the Body of Christ is NOT appointed to wrath, rather to salvation. Other beginner's topics include the basics about Daniel's 70 weeks. Daniel's 70 weeks were determined against Israel, not the Church which is the Body of Christ. In fact, the Church which is the body of Christ was a mystery to Daniel, and he knew NOTHING about it. One should also note the association of "Jacob's Trouble" with the Tribulation Period. It takes considerable time and effort to get beyond the basics and do an in-depth study of the "end of this age".

It is important to note that varying opinions about end of age events are NOT Salvation issues. We've had several recent new users that indicate an interest in debating these issues, and that's fine as long as the forum rules are followed. Disagreements over these issues will NOT result in name-calling as in several recent events. If the long-term users here wish to join you in debate, that will be totally up to them. I think that I can safely speak for most of the long-term users here and say that very few, if any, will be interested in any heated arguments. AND, from a moderators point of view, there won't be ANY name-calling.

New people here might wish to review a sampling of previous discussions on these issues. Some of them got out of hand, went too far, and they caused hurt feelings. This is improper for discussions between brothers and sisters in Christ, so the moderators will enforce the forum rules. See the next couple of posts for a sampling of related discussions already on the forum.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 5:7-9 NASB for we walk by faith, not by sight--we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

Understanding the Book of Revelation -- Open Discussion\Debate Thread - 5 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6873)

Best of Paul2's Pre-Trib. Rapture pages - 30 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2110)

Understanding the Book of Revelation - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6835)

autumn in Israel... - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=7510)

Is The Pre-Trib Rapture Theory Biblical - 9 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=7842)

tribulation questions - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=2455)

THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know - 6 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=256)

The Rapture - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=5345)

THE DISPENSATIONS - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=3154)

The coming of God's Kingdom - 2 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=20;action=display;threadid=4132)

Pre-trib Rapture - 7 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=6811)

some problems with the Preterist theory - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=5474)

Bride of Christ & the Mid-Tribulation Rapture - 11 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=255)

Rapture........ - 5 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1432)

Where does the trumpet fit into the rapture? - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1906)

Paul2's Pre-Tribulation Rapture pages - 5 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=298)

Daniel's 70th week speculation timeline - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2025)

The Rapture:"Arose by any other name" - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2261)

Mark of the Beast - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1975)

Papal Rome and the European Union - 2 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2280)

Paul2"s Group End Times Studies and Debates - 2 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2943)

Revelation 12 & Pre-Trib Rapture - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3707)

Pre-wrath investigation - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3426)

Paul2 vs Joel End Times Open Debate Discussions - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2992)

Paul2 vs. Petro's Pre-Wrath Rapture Pages - 4 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3418)

Don't you know partial rapture solves the problem!! - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3733)

The sins of various end-time views - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4075)

End Time Prophecy Revealed - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3633)

Revelation 4 is a key to pre-tribulation rapture - 2 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3716)

The Mid-Trib Rapture - 4 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3630)

THE GOOD NEWS OF THE COMING KINGDOM - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4207)

Is the pre-trib rapture truth or fiction? - 2 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3489)

The Great Tribulation: What is it? - 5 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2516)

The Day of the Lord - What is it? - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3853)

Rapture season 2006/2007 facts & evidence - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1888)

Pre trib & the Chip - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4459)

The Word of God vs. the Pre-Tribulation Rapture - 9 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4135)

America's role in the end times.. - 4 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=388)

Babylon the Great is Falling - 2 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4671)

SORRY ! No Rapture Today....or, Next Week... - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=2286)

Rapture season 2006/2007 facts & evidence *reactions* - 5 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1889)

Jewish eschatology - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4538)

On the last times - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4525)

Twobombs, and other prophecy watchers. - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4471)

2nd Coming: January 2011 (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=295)

The Whole Earth is on Borrowed Time - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=5040)

"Trends of the End" - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=5003)

Why Study Bible Prophecy? - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4566)

THE KINGDOM AGE (The 1000 Year Reign of Christ) - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4716)

Are We in the End Times, Prophetic Signs - 5 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4248)

"Unless there come a GREAT falling away..." - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=5305)

Fear, motivates the Secret Rapture theory ? - 4 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4952)

The GAP theory revisited - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=5759)

Revelations - 6 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4916)

What do you believe the Rapture will occur? - 9 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6559)

70 WEEKS PROPHECY... - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6554)

Prophecy series II Europe and the Antichrist. - 6 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=5909)

24 Elders and the Four beast...Redeemed? - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6843)

"Behold a Pale Horse" - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=7091)

Isa 17 study [ yes i'm back ] - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=7018)

New Heavens and a New Earth - 3 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=7527)

Rapture, Saved or reward based? 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=7488)

Mark of the Beast Technology here! - 8 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4026)

USA in prophecy? - 10 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6063)

Not Wrath But Rapture - 2 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=7736)

Prophecy and End Time Series. - Israel - 7 Pages (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=5900)

Iran, Iraq and End Times Prophecy - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=8188)

200 Million Horsemen army - 1 Page (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=8104)

book "Blinded by the Sun"
by S. David Mitchell

The Seven Year Tribulation
Another --- perpetrated by the --- shepherds of ecumenism is that of a Pre-
Tribulation Rapture. This doctrine teaches that all Christians will be gathered to
meet the Lord in the air at the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation, and that after
the Rapture 144,000 Israelites (12,000 from each of the Twelve Tribes) will be saved to evangelize the world.
“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there
were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the
tribes of the children of Israel.” Revelation 7:4
The scripture says they are sealed, NOT saved! This is to keep a segment of
descendents of Abraham safe as the wrath of God is poured out on the world.
“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the
seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four
angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we
have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”
Revelation 7:2-3
Some claim that because they are called servants of God that proves they are
followers of Christ. But in speaking to His disciples, the Lord Jesus said:
“Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not
what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things
that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.”
John 15:14-15 (emphasis mine)
Those that adhere to this ------ also believe that the Holy Spirit is keeping the
Antichrist from coming into power. Therefore all Christians that have the Holy
Spirit within them must be taken from the world before the son of perdition
comes to rule the earth.
“And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed
in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only
he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
281
However, the apostle never says that it is the Holy Spirit keeping the Antichrist
at bay. Claiming it is the Holy Spirit is an assumption by -----; used to
support the Pre-tribulation rapture ------. For centuries True Believers in Christ
have preached and proclaimed that the Roman Church is the whore of
Revelation mentioned in chapters 17 and 18. Many stood for Christ, paying the
price of their lives. But thanks to the likes of Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, Billy
Graham, Oral Roberts and a host of others; the mystery of iniquity (compromise)
working within modern Christendom has convinced the Body of Christ to remove
the standard of truth for the sake of false unity, paving the way for the rise of the
Antichrist.
“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness
of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received
not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this
cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should
believe a lie.” 2 Thessalonians 2:11
Going along with this --- is that since the Lord loves us so much, He would
never let His Bride go through such a horrible time. Did the Lord love not those
who were burned at the stake during the Inquisition? Does He not love those in
other lands that suffer unto death for His Names sake? What most Christians
here in the West do not realize is that this ------ is setting believers up to
actually fall into the trap of worshipping the Antichrist.
Another one of the main scriptures you will hear quoted to support this
---------- is found in the Book of Revelation.
“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will
keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon
all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”
Revelation 3:10
But scripture defines scripture! To discover what the LORD is saying one need
only look to the consistency of the Bible for the meaning.
In the beginning of the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John wrote:
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation
and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ...”
Revelation 1:9
282
What is this patience mentioned? In the context of this book it is staying faithful
to the Lord and refusing the spirit of the Antichrist!
“...If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his
mark in his forehead or in his hand, the same shall drink the
wine of the wrath of God...Here is the patience of the saints;
here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the fait
of Jesus.” Revelation 14:9b-10a; 12
Jesus never promised His church that we would be exempt from tribulation. In
fact, He told us just the opposite.
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have
peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good
cheer; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 (emphasis mine)
The Word of God also tells us that in time of tribulation or trouble, He is our
strong fortress.
“He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall
abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the
LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I
trust.” Psalm 91:1-2
“…God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above
that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to
escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” 1 Corinthians 10:13b
Also consider that the entire seven-year period that takes place after the
alleged Rapture, is never called “the tribulation” in the Word of God. The terms
used to describe this period of time are tribulation, great tribulation and wrath.
These do not have the same meaning in any way! The word tribulation comes
from the Latin, “tribulum” and refers to an instrument used to harvest grain. It is
used to separate a kernel of wheat from the husk. Wrath is judgment, destruction
and retribution!
So, by the Word of God we see that true Christians will have tribulation but they
are not to be subject to the wrath of God.
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation
by our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 5:9
The Signs of Noah and Lot
The Lord Jesus compared the Last Days to the times of two men of old, Noah,
and Lot; the nephew of Abraham.
283
“For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating
and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that
Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came,
and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of
man be.” Matthew 24:38-39
Noah endured tribulation (the testing of his faith) the entire time he was building

cont.

the ark. God had told him it was going to rain for 40 days and 40 nights and Noah
believed the LORD. But in the end, the total number of people saved on the ark
was indeed a remnant, 8 people in all!
“…the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while
the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were
saved by water.” 1 Peter 3:20b
After Noah and his family entered the ark, how many were saved as the wrath
of God fell upon the world in the form of a flood? Zero! Not one person was left
behind to preach to the masses about the salvation of the Lord.
“Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they
drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But
the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and
brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall
it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
Luke 17:28-30
Lot lived in one of the most godless places in the ancient world, known as
Sodom. This metropolis was comparable to New York City or San Francisco here
in the United States. Plagued by rampant homosexuality, it is from the name of
this city that we get the word sodomy. The Bible says that righteous Lot was
vexed by the wickedness of Sodom.
“And [the LORD turned] the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into
ashes [condemning] them with an overthrow, making them an
ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And
delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the
wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing
and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their
unlawful deeds).” 2 Peter 2:6-8
When the LORD told Abraham of His intention to destroy the cities of Sodom
and Gomorrah:
“…Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the
righteous with the wicked?” Genesis 18:23
284
Angels were sent to Sodom to take Lot and his family from that place before the
wrath of God fell upon it.
“And there came two angels to Sodom at even…And when the
morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take
thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be
consumed in the iniquity of the city. And while he lingered, the
men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife,
and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being
merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him
without the city.” Genesis 19:1; 15-16
Sodom and Gomorrah were completely wiped off the face of the Earth. How
many were saved in those cites after the wrath of God fell? The same as in the
days of Noah – absolutely none!
Although Tim LaHaye, Jerry B. Jenkins, Hal Lindsay and their ilk have made a
fortune teaching the ------ that multitudes will be saved after the Rapture, there
is absolutely no basis in scripture for this teaching.
Persecution and Apostasy
Persecution for righteousness sake is evidence that a person or fellowship is
following the Lord and the leadership of the Holy Spirit
“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated
you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but
because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the
world, therefore the world hateth you.” John 15:18-19
“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to
believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.” Philippians 1:29
“Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:10
In these Last Days, the Antichrist and the One World Church will indeed
persecute the True Believers.
“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and
tongues, and nations.” Revelation 13:7
According to the Word of God, two things must occur before Christ appears in
the clouds to gather His Bride.
285
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not
come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin
be revealed, the son of perdition.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3
Jesus told His disciples that persecution would cause many of those that
profess His Name to deny Him and turn on True Christians.
“And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another,
and shall hate one another.” Matthew 24:10
In the parable of the seeds (Matthew chapter 13), Jesus describes seed that
falls on rocky ground.
“Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth:
and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of
earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and
because they had no root, they withered away.” Matthew 13:5-6
Another cause of apostasy is --------- teachings and ecumenism. There is no
root in the Christian that has been fed a diet of error, lies and religious harlotry.
“Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for (not if,
but) when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word,
by and by he is offended (and falls away).” Matthew 13:21
Although the ------- of ecumenism have convinced a church gorged on
promises of prosperity and escapism that they will all be snatched away before
the son of perdition comes to power, this is absolute ------.
The Sixth Seal, the Sign of the Son of Man
As recorded in the Book of Matthew, when the abomination of desolation is set
up, it begins what Jesus called “great tribulation”.
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso
readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea
flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not
come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him
which is in the field return back to take his clothes: And woe
unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those
days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on
the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was
not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever
shall be.” Matthew 24:15-21
286
He then went on to say what would happen after the tribulation:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars
shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be
shaken.” Matthew 24:29 (emphasis mine)
There are other references to this occurrence mentioned in the Word of God.
“And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood,
and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into
darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the
terrible day of the LORD come.” Joel 2:30-31
These scriptures in Matthew and Joel refer to the Sixth Seal in the Book of
Revelation.
“And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there
was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth
of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven
fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,
when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed
as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and
island were moved out of their places.” Revelation 6:12-14
It is when the Sixth Seal is broken open that the word wrath is mentioned for
the first time.
“And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich
men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every
bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in

cont.

the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and
rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on
the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of
his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”
Revelation 6:15-17
After the Sixth Seal is opened, there is no evidence of anyone being saved.
The Word of God openly states that after the seal is opened: “They repented
not!” Then the Seventh Seal is opened which contain the 7 Trumpets and the 7
Vials of plagues (the Wrath of God) loosed on the Earth.
287
“And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues
yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should
not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and
stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries,
nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.”
Revelation 9:20-21 (emphasis mine)
Also consider that when Jesus Christ returns and does battle at Armageddon,
the Word of God says that He comes with all of His saints.
“And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of
the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of
Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints
with thee.” Zechariah 14:5 (emphasis mine)
How could the LORD return with all the saints, if some of them were saved after
the Rapture? Up until the time that the Sixth Seal is opened Christians will be
suffering tribulation. There is much contained in the Word of God surrounding the
opening of this seal.
The Lord Appears in the clouds to gather His elect:
“And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds
with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels,
and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the
uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
Mark 13:26-27
He harvests His wheat from the Earth and throws the tares or grapes as they
are called into the winepress of the wrath of God.
“Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of
harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares,
and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat
into my barn.” Matthew 13:30
“And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud
one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden
crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came
out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the
cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for
thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat
on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was
reaped.” Revelation 14:14-16
288
“And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven,
he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from
the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to
him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle,
and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are
fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and
gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress
of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the
city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse
bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.”
Revelation 14:17-20
The most dangerous part of this ------ teaching about a Pre-Tribulation
Rapture is that it has convinced Christians that they will all be gone before the
Antichrist appears. Saturated in the spirit of ------, modern Christians fattened
on the diet of a health and wealth gospel, are unprepared to:
“…endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.”
2 Timothy 2:3
Because they have listened to the false ecumenical shepherds, how many
Christians will have exercised their faith and allowed it to be tested – so that
when the Mark of the beast comes, (when no one will be able to buy or sell
without the mark), they will have the faith to trust God?
“And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free
and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their
foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had
the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
Revelation 13:16-17
How many will be able to watch as their loved ones suffer for their faith, truly
knowing and believing (because they have already been tried in the fire) that the
Word of God is sure!
“But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches
in glory by Christ Jesus.” Philippians 4:19
Or will have the faith to make the same proclamation as the three Hebrew lads
in Babylon!
289
“Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the
king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in
this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver
us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of
thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king,
that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image
which thou hast set up.” Daniel 3:16-18 (emphasis mine)
Notice that they were saved in the midst of the fire (tribulation) NOT before it!
“And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell
down in the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Then
Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste and
spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men
bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto
the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four
men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no
hurt; and the fourth is like the Son of God. Then
Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery
furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and
Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and
come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came
forth of the midst of the fire. And the princes, governors, and
captains, and the king’s counsellors, being gathered together, saw
these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an
hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor
the smell of fire had passed on them.” Daniel 3:23-27
According to the Word of God, anyone that takes the Mark of the Beast, even
though they may be a professing Christian, will lose their place in the Kingdom of
God and be cast into the Lake of Fire.
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If
any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark
in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine
of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into
the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire
and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the
presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment
ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor
night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever
receiveth the mark of his name.” Revelation 14:9-11
290

cont.

The True Christians will be subjected to the Antichrist for 42 months, or
approximately three and a half years!
“And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things
and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue
forty and two months.” Revelation 13:5
“…and [the saints] shall be given into his hand until a time and
times and the dividing of time (approximately 3 ½ years).”
Daniel 7:25b
The Tribulation is the wrath of Satan, unleashed against the followers of Christ.
“Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil
is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth
that he hath but a short time.” Revelation 12:12
Teaching doctrines concerning the Last Days and especially the Book of
Revelation is something every person that claims to follow Christ should do with
godly fear.
By changing the times appointed by God, these false and ---------- shepherds
have substituted the human invention of the Rapture occurring at the beginning
of the so-called 7-Year Tribulation, with the truth concerning the Sixth Seal.
As with Christmas and Easter, it is the spirit of antichrist to change the times
appointed by the LORD.
“And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times
and laws…” Daniel 7:25a
They have added to the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelation with
the proclamation of multitudes being saved after the Lord Appears in the clouds
to gather His Bride. By removing the warning for Christians that the Antichrist will
be in power and Mark of the Beast will happen in the Last days while they are still
here, they have taken away from the Book.
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the
prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things,
God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of
this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of
life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are
written in this book.” Revelation 22:18-19 (emphasis mine)
291
!

---
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28

Brother Jeremy

Brother Jerm,

I do believe that you are making a very grave misunderstanding. You or whoever wrote that piece is coming off very self righteous. It is as though you believe that you are the only one that God has given any revelations to and that if anyone believes contrary to you that they are sinning and going to hell.

1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

For some of the newer Christians, who don't know whats going on.
Pre-Trib, Where Christ will Rapture the church BEFORE the Tribulation even begins.

Mid-Trib, Where Christ will Rapture the church at the MID-POINT of the Tribulation.

Post Trib, Where Christ will Rapture the church at the END of the Tribulation.

Pre-Wrath, Where Christ will Rapture the church JUST BEFORE the Battle of Armageddon.

Partial Rapture, Where Christ will Rapture those WHO ARE READY and leave the rest to go through the Tribulation.

Trib-Pan, or Pan-Trib, Think it will "All pan out in the End" ???
______________________________________________________

Some major areas of problem with your view, Brother Jerm.

God Has Not Appointed Us to Wrath

John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"

Ephesians 5:6 "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him"

In the above verses we see a very clear distinction between; who will taste of God's wrath and who will not.

Paul assures us that God has not appointed us unto wrath ...

1 Thess 1:10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

1 Thess 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.."

This wrath being; God's anger that will be poured out during the Tribulation.

Don't get this confused with the John 16:33 "In the world ye shall have tribulation.." This is in reference to the trials and tribulations that this world brings. We certainly have our sufferings here - some more than others. But this is not the same as the Great Tribulation where God pours out His wrath ... That time will be unparalleled by any!

Matt 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"

Rev 6:16-17 "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 11:18 "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

More, Rev 14:10, 14:19 Rev 15:1, 15:7 Rev 16:1, 16:19 Rev 19:15

Rapture and Second Coming are Very Different Events, Brother Jerm.

Some are often surprised at how many do not realize there are distinct differences in God's Word between the description of the Rapture and that of the Second Coming of Christ. These are two totally different events. Some people refer to them as one & the same. Here are just some of the obvious differences,

The Rapture...........
Seen Only by Believers ... 1 Corinthians 15:52
It's a Mystery - revealed by Paul in the New Testament ... 1Corinthians 15:51-53
In a Twinkling of an Eye ... 1 Corinthians 15:51-53
We are Going "UP" - Meeting Jesus in the Air ... 1 Thes 4:15-18
A Thief in the Night.... 1Thessalonians 5:2
Christ Comes for His Own ... 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Believers taken to Father's House ... John 14:3
No reference to Satan ...
Earth not judged ...

The Second Coming..........
Every Eye Will See Him ... Revelation 1:7 19:11-16 and Matthew 24:30
Not a Mystery - Foretold in Old Testament ... Daniel 12:1-3 and Zech. 12:10; 14:4
He will be Coming "DOWN" to the Mount of Olives ... Zechariah 14
He Comes With His Own ... Revelation 19:14 *
Satan bound ... Revelation 20:1-3
Earth judged ... Revelation 20:4-5

Revelation 19:14 speaking of the Second Coming reads; "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

At the Second Coming, He is not coming alone. Rather those who had been raptured earlier are coming back with him!

Jude 1:14 ... Enoch also, prophesied about this saying;
"Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints."
Interesting that Enoch was also Raptured! Genesis 5:24

In a post-trib rapture scenario, we would rise in the air meet the Lord, then turn do a 180 back down to earth. Zech. 14:4 tells us His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. If He is already headed our way, why would we need to be caught up to meet Him?

Resting in the Lords arms.
Bob

1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

Quote

Our Catholic friends seem to think that the Rapture is not a Biblical teaching.

There's no doubt that the Bible teaches a "catching up" (rapture) of the Believers. The big debate is when. Sadly this non-salvation issue has divided the Body ever since it came into existence in the 19th century.

I wondered about the popularly taught theories for decades until, I believe, the Lord revealed to me what is going to happen (not WHEN but WHAT).

When the Lord returns He will establish His Millennial Kingdom here on this Earth. For that thousand years those who have rejected God's plan of salvation and Satan and his demons will be removed from this Earth (Psalm 37: 9-11, 20, 22, 29, Matt. 24: 40-41). I understand the Lord to say those represented in those verses are NOT the Believers.

At the end of the thousand year Kingdom the Believers will be removed and God will cast Satan, his demons and those who rejected His plan of salvation back down to Earth for the "Great Tribulation". After that God will destroy this Earth and the Heavens and create a New Earth, Heavens and the New Jerusalem (See Rev. 21). Our eternal home will be the New Earth (NOT Heaven as has been taught by many because Heaven is GOD'S domain, "headquarters" so to speak, where all the records and rewards are kept). We have been taught that we will go to Heaven based on the Scripture where Jesus said He was going to sit at the right hand of God and that we would be with Him. That is based on the erroneous assumption that Jesus never leaves Heaven and that is where He is preparing a place for us.

I know this view of the end-times will rattle some cages and perhaps even upset some because they have bought into one of the popular "Rapture" theories. But you need to remember two things: 1. This is not a salvation issue and 2: I'm just the messenger.

In case I am unable to return to this discussion board any time soon, I would like to so ahead and share what scripture is clear about regarding the “end things”.

Revelation basically sums up what the prophets foretold would occur and what Jesus Christ Himself told us about the end of the ages, along with some of the other writers of the New Testament bringing light to a seemingly mysterious topic…the end of the ages.

There are several aspects of scripture that tie in together. Without understanding them individually, the bigger picture will never be understood.

God's seven Holy Days (found in Leviticus 23) foreshadow His plan of salvation for mankind. Four of the events that the Holy Days foreshadow have not yet occurred. They are, briefly: a)the return of Christ/ harvest of the firstfruits (Feast of Trumpets), b)the binding of Satan for 1000 years (the Day of Atonement), c)the millennial reign of Christ (the Feast of Tabernacles), and d)the greatest harvest/opportunity of salvation (the Great Last Day).

Most Christians are so busy keeping Babylonian holy days (Christmas, Easter, etc) and minding the world’s system that they are completely unaware of God's Holy Days and the tremendous significance of them. Understanding what they mean brings greater understanding to Revelation 20 and 21.

At the end of the millenium, Satan is loosed for a "season", the resurrection of the "rest of the dead" takes place, and the Great White Throne judgment period begins. Scripture indicates that the "books" will be opened and also the "book of life". Ezekiel tells us in chapter 37 that many dead will be raised to fleshly bodies, which ties in with Revelation 20:5 and Revelation 20:12.

So, here we have millions of newly resurrected people, Satan being loosed for a "season", and the "books" opened and the "book of life" opened. We are also told that it is Satan's primary goal to deceive people during this time. Those he deceives he will gather together to make one final attempt to quell the saints. These rejecters of the grace of God, whose names are NOT found in the book of life, are cast into the lake of fire. We are told that many others (Ezekiel 37) will respond to the outpouring of God's Spirit will believe and be saved.

The parable of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46) is the Great White Throne judgement. Works do not save. It is only by God's grace that he declares a sinner "righteous" through the blood of Jesus Christ. However, a person's deeds done with pure motives will be the test of genuine faith. That is why the parable of the sheep and goats SEEMS to say people are judged by what they do, because, in a sense, it is what they do from a pure heart that demonstrates their inward faith. Revelation 20:12-15 speaks of this also, people are judged "according to their works". It is only the works of the genuine believer that will stand the tests of the judgment period.

Now remember, all those "in Christ" prior to Christ's return were in the "first resurrection" and will not be subject to any further scrutiny regarding their position of eternal life (Rev. 20:6). These "firstfruits" will have already reigned with Christ in glorified bodies during the millenium. After the millenium they will obviously continue to minister the gospel to the newly resurrected unbelievers until the end of the Great White Throne period.

At the end of the Great White Throne period, all who are not found written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire, along with Satan, and death and hell. The "second death" is very final. All unbelievers will PERISH (die, cease to live). In fact, death will be no more and hell (the grave) will be no more. (Revelation 20:14; I Corinthians 15:24-28)

There are many in mainstream Christianity have adopted the pagan belief that a soul is immortal. Plato also embellished on this unbiblical idea. This is what many churches ignorantly teach out of tradition.

However, scripture teaches that man is MORTAL, not immortal. I Timothy 6:16 clearly states that ONLY GOD has immortality. Anything he created, he can destroy (Matthew 10:28). He GAVE Jesus Christ immortality when he raised him to life from the grave, just like he will give all believers immortality when Christ returns (I Corinthians 15:51-54; I Thessalonians 4:16-17). Satan will be destroyed because he is not immortal (Ezekiel 28:18-19; Isaiah 14:15-16) So, basically, all that goes into the lake of fire is destroyed (Malachi 4:1-4)

Eternal life is a GIFT for those who believe, not a "given" for all that come into existence after an egg and sperm unite. "For the wages of sin is DEATH (not live torture into the eons), but the GIFT OF GOD is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord." Also, John 3:16 clearly delineates man's options, which are: a)to perish (die, cease to exist) or b)to have eternal life.

The God I believe and trust and have faith in is not a sadist. Scripture makes it very clear that He is not willing that ANY should perish, but if they do reject Him and die, they are put out of existence forever. It is confusing to some to reconcile the words "everlasting punishment" with total abolishment of life (DEATH). This simply means that the punishment of death can never be undone. The EFFECTS of death are forever. So, it is not endless punish-ING, but rather a punish-MENT, the EFFECTS of which will be everlasting.

So, by understanding the significance of God's Holy Days, one can then know that this is not the only age for salvation. The resurrection of the "rest of the dead" will be the greatest harvest of God's people and will occur AFTER the millennium. The Great White Throne judgment is a period and will last for a "season". All who have ever lived will be given an opportunity to hear and believe. This is the most wonderful part of God's plan of salvation for mankind that most in mainstream Christianity never teach nor understand.

John 7:37-38 speaks of the Great Day of the Feast when Jesus Christ stood and cried, "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." This cross-references Revelation 21:6, "I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." Also, Ezekiel 37 tells us that many will be resurrected and God will put His Spirit in them. These all reference the offering of salvation AFTER the millenium and during the Great White Throne period.

When all enemies are made Christ’s footstool (unbelievers, Satan and his forces, death itself – I Corinthians 15:25-26, Revelation 21:10, 14-15), he will turn the kingdom over to God the Father, who will be all in all. The beautiful eternity we’ve all been waiting for commences without ONE ounce of sin, ugliness, tears, heartache, or sorrow (Revelation 21:1-5).

Quote from: Lampstand on February 02, 2006, 09:19:12 PM

God's seven Holy Days (found in Leviticus 23) foreshadow His plan of salvation for mankind. Four of the events that the Holy Days foreshadow have not yet occurred. They are, briefly: a)the return of Christ/ harvest of the firstfruits (Feast of Trumpets), b)the binding of Satan for 1000 years (the Day of Atonement), c)the millennial reign of Christ (the Feast of Tabernacles), and d)the greatest harvest/opportunity of salvation (the Great Last Day).

Lampstand,

This is hardly a new misconception, in reality it's something the church has been dealing with its entire life. As Paul made his missionary journeys around the ancient world, preaching freedom from the Law of Moses, a group of ex-pharisees (known loosely as the Judaisers) would follow a few days behind him, preaching that Gentiles had to become Jews before they could become Christians. This teaching included circumcision, a kosher lifestyle, and generally following Mosaic Law. When Peter heard of this, he came before the Christian sect of the Pharisees, saying:

Acts 15:7-11 8 And God, Who is acquainted with and understands the heart, bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit as He also did to us; 9 And He made no difference between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith by a strong and welcome conviction that Jesus is the Messiah, through Whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God). 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting a yoke on the necks of the disciples, such as neither our forefathers nor we [ourselves] were able to endure? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace (the undeserved favor and mercy) of the Lord Jesus, just as they [are].

The Mosaic law was difficult to follow to the letter. Many times, however, these difficulties arose from how the Pharisees and Saducees interpreted the law. These men were not only the Clergy, but also the Legislative, Executive, and on occasion the Judicial branches of their entire political system. If someone wanted to know if it was kosher to tie a certain type of knot on a certain day, they'd ask one of them (they're also referred to as Lawyers). If someone had a complaint against his neighbor, they'd bring it up with them. This eventually led to a very large, complex system which (by Peter's own admission) was impossible to follow.

Paul says "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, so that no one may boast". Salvation comes by grace, not by works. If we could somehow earn our way into heaven by doing enough good deeds, shying away from the bad deeds, there wouldn't be any need for Grace. Paul addresses this issue in his letter to the church in Rome: "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", continuing "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". Now, don't hear me wrong: works are an important part of faith (James even goes so far as to say 'Faith without works is dead'), but it's the Faith that leads to eternal life. Consequently, anyone preaching salvation by way of works (salvation by Mosaic Law, salvation by indulgences, salvation by baptism, etc) is falling into the same trap many pharisees fell into thousands of years ago.

Paul continues: "If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.", "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day -- things that are a mere shadow of what is to come", and "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under Law but under grace". Keep in mind who Paul's talking to: young churches, mostly of a Jewish background. When he speaks of "the Law", he's referring to Mosaic Law. When he speaks of "the law", he referrs to state law. (I say this so nobody thinks I'm claiming Paul says to disobey all laws.). Jesus clearly states in the the Gospel of Matthew that He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it. He didn't destroy the Law of Moses, he completed it. He fulfilled the prophesies of the coming messiah, He became the very essence of the suffering servant, (foreshadowed here, here, and here; reinforced here and here.)

So what laws do apply to christians?

Matthew 22:37-40 37 And He replied to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind (intellect). 38 This is the great (most important, principal) and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself. 40 These two commandments [a]sum up and upon them depend all the Law and the Prophets.

In short, everything comes from love,the love from Christ.

Chaplain Bob, I don't believe I have had the pleasure of saying hello and Welcome to Christians Unite! So Hello and Welcome to Christians Unite! :D

Quote from: Chaplain Bob on February 02, 2006, 03:45:35 PM

I don't believe I have ever heard this scenario before. Not sure I would agree with it, but interesting never the less.

Quote

I know this view of the end-times will rattle some cages and perhaps even upset some because they have bought into one of the popular "Rapture" theories. But you need to remember two things: 1. This is not a salvation issue and 2: I'm just the messenger.

Rattle Cages, Upset? Why that never happens here on CU!!! :D Just funnin ya there Bob. I will honestly say that I disagree with your view, but at least we both agree He is coming back for us and no matter how when or where, we are going to be with Him praise God!

Welcome aboard!

Lampstand, a hearty howdy to you also!

Grace and Peace!

Code:

Quote from: Chaplain Bob on February 02, 2006, 03:45:35 PM
There's no doubt that the Bible teaches a "catching up" (rapture) of the Believers.  The big debate is when.  Sadly this non-salvation issue has divided the Body ever since it came into existence in the 19th century.

I wondered about the popularly taught theories for decades until, I believe, the Lord revealed to me what is going to happen (not WHEN but WHAT).

When the Lord returns He will establish His Millennial Kingdom here on this Earth.  For that thousand years those who have rejected God's plan of salvation and Satan and his demons will be removed from this Earth (Psalm 37: 9-11, 20, 22, 29, Matt. 24: 40-41).  I understand the Lord to say those represented in those verses are NOT the Believers.

At the end of the thousand year Kingdom the Believers will be removed and God will cast Satan, his demons and those who rejected His plan of salvation back down to Earth for the "Great Tribulation".  After that God will destroy this Earth and the Heavens and create a New Earth, Heavens and the New Jerusalem (See Rev. 21).  Our eternal home will be the New Earth (NOT Heaven as has been taught by many because Heaven is GOD'S domain, "headquarters" so to speak, where all the records and rewards are kept).  We have been taught that we will go to Heaven based on the Scripture where Jesus said He was going to sit at the right hand of God and that we would be with Him.  That is based on the erroneous assumption that Jesus never leaves Heaven and that is where He is preparing a place for us.

I’ll keep this short and to the point, I will expound if needed.

The book of Revelation puts the Rapture in its proper timeline.
The Rapture occurs in Rev 4:1, which corresponds with the 1st Thes verses.
In Rev 19:14 we see His saints, the Raptured Christians returning with Jesus from Heaven. satan and his friends are tossed into the bottomless pit for 1,000 years – This is the beginning of the thousand-year rein. When the thousand years is up satan is released so he can tempt the people who survived the seven year tribulation and their offspring, so that they may also choose or deny Jesus. Satan actually manages to gather a hoard and they descend upon the gates of the Holy City which is on Earth, and that’s the end of satan and his children.

The Rapture did not first appear in the 1800, there is documentation, which places this Biblical truth at the second century. Even if it was not understood until the 1800s what does that prove? Jesus specifically said there would be mysteries, which would not be understood until the end times did He not?

You really have to turn a blind eye to several key scriptures in order to dismiss then Rapture. It is Biblical. Look for any example in the Bible where God has left His select to face His personal wrath…you will not find a single example. God did not appoint His children unto wrath, He said so, and I believe Him…why don’t you?

Bronzesnake

ChristiansUnite Forums

Theology => Debate => Topic started by: creationist on March 18, 2004, 03:40:48 AM