ChristiansUnite Forums

Why would I say this??

While reading Ehp 1, I realized He does all things for himself, that He might be praised, listen to these verses;

Eph 1
3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6  To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8  Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

According to verse 5, He has predestinated Christians that His Glory might be praised,  the majesty of his very person,  might be praised, this is the reason why He has appointed those whom He redeems from the condemnation of death.

Verse 12, to the end that Christaians,  first trusted in Christ, should be the praise of his Glory

13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
 

The above verses tells us, the Holy Spirit, is given as a pledge of  inheritance with a view to the redemption of Gods own purchased possession, unto the praise of His Glory

God does everything concerning Salvation, so that He should be praised
God does not save people primarily so they can spend eternity in heaven, He saves people primarily so that He may be Praised[/b]  

So that the majesty of His person should be exalted and honored as it deserves  to be..

So salvation is of great benefit, for those who are saved, but, it is not the ultimate end, salvation is part of the means to the ultimate end of the glory of God.

God does everything for HIMSELF.

See;  Phil 2:11, 2 Cor 4:15,

And this  is where everyones hope should be the Glory of God (Rom 5:2; not in themselves (2 Cor 10:17-18)

Therefore whether you eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Cor 10:31)

So then, we have a totally Sovereign God, doing all things for one purpose, HIS OWN GLORY, that He might be glorified.

This, doesn't sit well, with some who call or consider themselves christians, this is what they say;

"I don't like to be told, God is in total control, doing everything for Himself; ...............

"what about my sovereignty"??, what about my "free will"??, "what about my glory"??
"what about me"??, "what about my control"??, "what about my importance"??

Those that think this way, show they are still under their sin of rebellion against God..

This is Gods reply to you;  O man;

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?  (Rom 9:15-21)

And the Apostle Paul, exhorts all of us; while it is still called today,

2 Cor 13
5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
6  But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

Blessings,  
Petro

God is not under obligation to save anyone,

For ALL have sinned, and fall  short of the Glory of God.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

God the Creator only saves men, becauses He loves to love and be loved, and for that great love which He has for His Son, some of mankind become benefactors only because of His Great Mercy and Grace, THAT HE MIGHT PRAISED AND GLORIFIED.

Yet some say; He saved me cause I excersiced my "free will", and ok'd it..

 I don't think so.....

Petro

Good article. An interesting read. Thank you for posting it.

He who does not love, does not know God, for God is love (1John 4:8 >>Moffatt)

"(love) is never rude, never selfish..." (1Corinthians 13:5 >>Moffatt)
"(love) is never haughty or selfish..." (1Corinthians 13:5 >>Living Bible)
"It (love) is not indecent. It isn't selfish..." (1Corinthians 13:5 >>Beck)
"Love has good manners and does not pursue selfish advantage..." (1Corinthians 13:5 >>J.B. Phillips)
"(love) is not rude or selfish..." (1Corinthians 13:5 >>Complete Jewish Bible)
"(love is not) rude; never selfish..." (New English Bible)

Other translations such as the New King James; American Standard, New American Standard; Twentieth Century New Testament; Young's Literal Translation; Darby and Webster have it: "(love) seeks not its own..."

The NIV has it: "(love) is not rude, it is not self-seeking..."

According to Webster's New Riverside Dictionary, the meaning of selfish is: "concerned only or primarily with oneself without regard to others; self-centered; self-seeking."

I cannot help but think that I have missed something in what you are trying to say. Perhaps you could be a bit clearer... or perhaps "selfish" was a poor choice for an adjective to describe our God.

Certainly Jesus is God and He did not seek His own when He chose to become man (Philippians 2:6-8), and this act is Paul's model for us to follow in choosing another's welfare above one's own (Philippians 2:1-5; compare 2:21). While I understand that God does all things for His own glory, why should that be described as "selfish"? Would you say that a man (or woman) who above and beyond the call of duty gave up his (her) life while defending our country did so for selfish reasons? Certainly one's reasons would have to be heroic, honorable or even because one's character could not permit him/her to act otherwise in a crisis, but to say that such a deed is "selfish" would denigrate the act. Would it not?

In my opinion, to compare "selfish" with "jealous" is to miss a very important point. There is "righteousness" in jealousy, but I cannot imagine any righteousness in a "selfish" goal.

God loved Israel and chose her for His exclusive possession. He desired that Israel would choose Him as well, but He repeated found them "in bed" with other gods. He was jealous. There is a sense of honor and righteous indignation in this kind of jealousy. If you can give me one example of how "selfishness" is honorable at any time, under any circumstance, perhaps I could adjust my viewpoint.

John1one

Ephesians 1;3 means,Blessed here means worthy of praise.When God blesses man,He confers benefits upon him;when man blesses God,as Paul does here,he attributes praise to Him.Who hath blessed us (or because He has blessed us);The apostle,then,praises God because He has bestowed all spiritual blessings on His people.When did He do this? Probably in eternity past.(cf.v.4,5).Where are these blessings located? In heavenly places,that is in Heaven.

Verses 4-5-The last two words of verse 4 (in love) may well belong to verse 5;the link between verb forms in these two verses is expressed in this rendering;He chose us.......in that He lovingly predestined us. So the divine choice of verse 4 is futher defined by the divine predestination of verse 5.Predestinated means marked out in advance,determined or appointed beforehand.Prior to creation God appointed those who would believe unto [or,for] the adoption of children;that is,He appointed them to be His sons.This divine appointment was according to [because of] the good pleasure of his will;it was due not to anything good in ourselves,but due solely to his kindness.These verses stress the divine sovereignty in salvation.Verses 12 and 13,which mention our trust and belief in Christ,emphasize the human responsibility in the process.

To be continue.
God Bless.

James 2
19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

This word believe is the same , word which is found in ;

Jhn 6  
29  Jesus answered and said untio them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Trusting, or having confidence in the word of God, produces, faith, which God gives as a free gift by Grace to everyone who comes to Him.

Jesus, said;

Jhn 14
6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No man can come to God the Father except by Jesus,

and again Jesus said;

Mat 11
27  All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

And the scripture tells;

Jhn 6
44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rom 10
17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Note the work of God, is that you believe in Him who He has sent.  (Jhn 6:29)  above.

Now I know alot of christians like to take credit for believing, as though this is their work.

But it is God who does a work in everyman, whom He has elected , which when it is done, produces trust sufficient enough to believe Him, so that He can give them that faith which is  necessary to believe in Jesus who Saves the Soul.

Who is it that can take credit for this work?? .........which produces the will of God.

Petro

Have you ever stopped to consider that before ANYTHING there was only God.
and in Himself was PERFECTION ,JOY and eternal peace and contentment.
He had NEED of nothing.

Yet knowing HIMSELF the BEST and most PERFECT thing He could do was to create man who that where God was "there he could be also"
For the highest GOOD for man was and is to know Him."whom to know is LIFE eternal"

Now you say God is selfish?
I once thought that when i was a child.
using the same arguments as you have.
pretty much.
Yet think on this for amoment.

It COST God EVERYTHING to give us soemthing for nothing.

God has no need of air and sun and all of creation.
Nor has He need of men or of angles or of anytthig that was made.
Yet God being God and by that which is in His nature which is LOVE;ACTED out of LOVE AND created MAN.
Not by command as all creation.
But He FORMED Him out of the dust of the earth and breathed in Him that which was of Him and "he became a living soul"

How is it then that we will gloryfy men for the deeds that THEY do but not God who DESERVES  ALL the glory for what He has done.
But men would rather gloryfy men and give men PRAISE and are so quick to CONDEMN God that it seems alitle unbalANCED.

Is not God WORTHY to be praised?
and in the FINAL ANLYSIS is not ALL the glory HIS?

Yet you say He created men to worship Him.
To any man who has fallen in  love with God and has experined the worship of God.
I say glory to God for that also!
For God KNOWS as He knows himself that mens HIGHEST and maturist service is done in the worship of God.

I would say that God created MAN that he might know HIM who created him.
and that the NATURAL response of a RIGHTOUS man IS     to worship God and it is RIGHT to do so.

That MEN do not shows that it is by mens FREE will that they do and no compulsion of God.
But a 'NATURAL' REPSONSE of a THANKFULL and regenerated heart. TO God who is WORTHY to be called GOD and who ALONE is worthy to be praised.

geralduk,

Amen, I dol not disagree, with what you have posted.

I posted this subject from mans prespective, I know it sounded negative, however, it is true, God formulated and is executing his plan today, that He might be glorified, and He will in the end, whether or not man agrees with me or not.

Since the scriptures states,expressly,  

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.  (Phil2:11)


As for the reason, why God did all this, we know it was for the sake of fellowship and praise, but there is more to it, and I am afraid none of us knows the whole story, the reason why I say this is because, He never prepared a place for cursed men, note that Hell (a place of everlasting fire) was prepared for the devil and his angels. Mat 25:41; while the Kingdom was prepared for them that should inherit it, from before the foundation of the world.

Petro

 

  The interesting thing about your post, Petro, is that God creating all things for Himself and for His glory is to the greatest benefit of all His creatures; and those who will not repent and believe the gospel will be a benefit also because in them the glory due God for His righteous judgment will be seen by all, and He will thereby be glorified even in His enemies.

Ralph,

How true, in the end God will be glorified, by ALL,  those whom He has saved, for His Mercy and Grace and the ungodly  will also bend the knee, and confess Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of God. (Phil2:11)
Because God, has spoken, and His word has gone forth, and will not return to Him, void, but will accoimplish, ALL that He has purposed it, to do.
The Will of God will not be  frusterated..

God Bless,

Petro