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Title: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: sonofHilkiah on June 11, 2012, 06:50:05 PM Because the Scripture tells me that he is.
His Calling and Election: Luke 6:12-16 12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. 13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; 14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, 15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes, 16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. Jesus goes up to a mountain to pray to His Father. He spends all night in communion with God and returns when it is day. Jesus calls unto Him His disciples. And of them He chose twelve men whom He also named apostles. Twelve apostles. Not eleven apostles and one false apostle. Twelve apostles. And Jesus named them apostles. Here is the calling and the election of twelve men that will be with Jesus until His arrest and crucifixion. Peter was called and elected in the same capacity as all the others. Judas was called and elect in the same capacity as James. There is no distinction in the calling and election of these twelve men. And if Jesus named them all apostles, then they are His apostles, and the gifts and calling of God is without repentance (Rom. 11:29). Do you believe in calling and election? Here, Jesus calls and elects Judas to "be with Him" (Mk. 3:14), and for three years Judas is with Jesus. I know Judas was a thief. Peter was a blasphemer. He cussed and cursed. Peter had a big mouth. Judas had big eyes and a big desire for monetary gain. Twelve men, all sinners, and in need of a Savior. I don't second-guess Jesus. He called twelve men and the Scripture says Jesus named them apostles. I believe in calling and election. I reject the false "free will" heresy in the Church. No man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them. If there's no drawing, there's no coming. And if one is called of God and elect of God, then that alone is enough that through ones life the perseverence of the saint will be fulfilled. And there is nothing man can do to escape the call of God on their life, even if it lasts on earth only three years, as with Judas, or mere hours as with the thief on the cross next to Jesus. I believe Judas is saved because Jesus called and elect him to be with Him, and by the mere fact that Jesus named Judas an apostle. A true apostle. An apostle of the Lamb (Jn. 1:29). Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: nChrist on June 11, 2012, 08:44:34 PM John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Judas is the son of perdition. John 6:64-71 KJV But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: sonofHilkiah on June 11, 2012, 11:23:05 PM John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Yes, I understand your point. However, I address that Scripture in a separate post. Judas is the son of perdition. John 6:64-71 KJV But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Title: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 2 Post by: sonofHilkiah on June 11, 2012, 11:34:31 PM Because the Scripture tells me that he is.
The Scripture, both the Old Testament and the New Testament is Authored by the Holy Spirit. He is the inspiration behind the men whom He used to get God's Word across to His people. The Scripture reveals to us among other things the Creator God that brought all this that we see, and this that we do not see into existence. The "among other things" the Scripture contains are the thoughts of God as well as His Word to His people in the things they must know in order to live an ordered and holy and righteous life before Him. The Scripture tells us what God thinks about sin, man, woman, marriage, children, obedience, holiness, righteousness, about government, homosexualism, idols, creation, salvation, repentance, conversion, being born again, angels, wisdom, everything that His people can and will be involved in while they live a life here on earth. And since such things are revealed in Scripture and contain the will and thoughts of God it is what Paul called the Mind of Christ. We find this doctrine and understanding for this in 2 Timothy among others: 2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The Scripture, the Word of God, is given first and foremost for doctrine (teaching). Second, when doctrine is being ignored or rejected, or for some reason difficult to grasp then the Scripture is also profitable for reproving and then for correction. The Scripture is given by inspiration of God for instruction in righteousness so that the man (and woman) of God may be throughly furnished unto ALL good works. But what does all this have to do with Judas Iscariot? It has everything to do with Judas. For one, the Holy Spirit who Authored the Scriptures goes to great lengths in letting us know that He not only called and elected him to be an apostle, but that he is an apostle that was chosen in the same capacity as the other eleven, thus making twelve men given command of their Lord for the service. It is the Holy Spirit who constantly remarks and reminds us that Judas is one of the twelve chosen of Christ to "be with Him" (Mk. 3:14) and to be an apostle of the Lamb. One cannot but see the Holy Spirit telling us so we do not forget in spite of anything and everything else that Judas is of the twelve men chosen by Christ in His service. A true apostle. Take a read: Matthew 11:1 1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. Do you see the ownership? The Holy Spirit says these twelve disciples are "his" (Christ's). The Holy Spirit constantly reminds us that Judas is indeed "one of the twelve" apostles. This speaks of inclusion, not exclusion. Matthew 26:47 47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve... Mark 14:10 10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve... Mark 14:20 20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish. Mark 14:43 43 And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve... Luke 22:3 3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Luke 22:47 47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve... John 6:71 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. And if that is not enough the same reminder to us is made of the Holy Spirit concerning Thomas: John 20:24 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. I'd say that there is a great significance in this. For the Holy Spirit to keep repeating Himself about Judas being one of the twelve is important and we should take notice of it. We should receive it. It is the Word of God. How many times must a King repeat Himself to His servants about something that He wants us all to know. For me, all He has to do in order for me to get the message is to say it ONE time. May God give me the grace to hear that one time. Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 2 Post by: nChrist on June 12, 2012, 12:21:46 AM Judas was chosen to fulfill Bible Prophecy that Jesus Christ would be betrayed. See the Scripture that I used in answer to your part one. It would have been better to put this in the same thread as part one since it's on the same subject. See what Jesus Christ Himself said. Judas is LOST.
John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Judas is the son of perdition. John 6:64-71 KJV But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: nChrist on June 12, 2012, 03:06:17 AM Yes, I understand your point. However, I address that Scripture in a separate post. Negative. Jesus Christ Himself says that Judas is lost - see above. What is your interest in pushing something so odd and definitely not supported by the Bible? Title: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 3 Post by: sonofHilkiah on June 12, 2012, 07:47:05 AM Because Jesus Promised him a throne along with the other eleven disciples:
Matthew 19:27-30 27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. For three years the twelve disciples lived, ate, slept, worked, recreated, with Jesus. And yes, for three years the twelve disciples followed Jesus to the very end of His life on earth. Twelve disciples and twelve thrones. Twelve apostles and twelve thrones. These twelve men being with Jesus have forsaken houses, brethren, sisters, father, mother, wife, children, land, and as the Scripture say, "shall receive an hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life." "In the regeneration," or when Jesus restores all things and sits in the throne of His glory, that "ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." It's interesting that in the four gospels Judas is listed last where the apostles are named. It's just a thought, but although listed last in Scripture on this side of glory, is Judas now the first on "that side" of glory? Mark 10:28-31 Luke 18:28-30 Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: sonofHilkiah on June 12, 2012, 08:11:15 AM Negative. Jesus Christ Himself says that Judas is lost - see above. What is your interest in pushing something so odd and definitely not supported by the Bible? As I said, I address those passages of Scripture on a future post. The study is too long to put in one thread so I decided to break it up into parts. Odd and not supported by the Bible? Am I not saying the same thing as the Bible? Jesus hand-picked the twelve disciples He called to Himself and chose as His twelve apostles. Scripture declares that Jesus "named them [His twelve] apostles." My Biblical support? It's right there in Luke 6:12-13. I posted it. Do you see this? Romans 11:29 For the gifts and callings of God are without repentance. Do you believe this Word? Well, I do. If the Holy Spirit says that Jesus "named them [twelve disciples] apostles," shall I say the opposite and say Judas was not an apostle? Shall I doubt what Jesus is quoted by the Holy Spirit as saying that Judas was an apostle when Scripture clearly says that Jesus named them [all twelve] apostles? There is no distinction. It does not say Jesus named eleven apostles and one false apostle, does it? Nor shall I say that Jesus was lying, or make up excuse and deceive my eyes from what it reads. Here is the Scripture. Tell me again if I am saying or not saying the same thing as God? Luke 6:13 13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; Jesus named the twelve He called and chose, apostles. I am saying the same thing. Jesus called and chose twelve [men] whom He also named apostles. These twelve men were called and chosen "to be with Him" (implying intimacy) Mark 3:14, and Jesus named them apostles. Jesus is the Lamb of God when He does this (Jn 1:29), therefore, these twelve men are the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: Soldier4Christ on June 12, 2012, 08:19:35 AM These three threads are all the same subject and easier to follow and respond to as a whole rather than in parts. therefore I have merged them all into one thread. It is the same manner that we need to approach this subject in the Bible, not in parts but rather with all verses that apply taken together.
Jesus himself called Judas lost, a non-believer and the son of perdition (fact of being lost or destroyed, eternal damnation, spiritual ruin, state of souls in Hell) . This is not my point nor is it the point of nChrist but rather it is the point that Jesus made quite clearly that matters. Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: nChrist on June 12, 2012, 04:09:09 PM One of the Apostles to the twelve tribes of Israel was replaced - Judas. Judas was not a believer and his purpose was to betray Jesus Christ to fulfill Bible Prophecy.
Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: Didymus on June 14, 2012, 04:26:42 AM The bible is clear (as shown above) that Iudas was the son of perdition. The word perdition literally means destruction. The fact that he killed himself instead of repenting is proof that he was not saved. God restored Peter after his betrayal of Jesus, and Peter gave abundant evidence of his restoration. We see the exact opposite with Judas.
Didymus Title: Re: Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1 Post by: Brother Jerry on May 07, 2013, 04:20:14 PM Only because I have been away for so long..
The answer to this is quite simple. Disciple does not mean you are saved...it means you are learning. Apostle does not mean you are saved...it means you are sent with a special message. Stating that one is called to be a disciple or an apostle does not mean they are saved...no more than saying the title of prophet means you are spreading the message of God. 2 Corinthians 11:13 "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ" We see that from that verse there are people who are false apostles....so just calling someone an apostle is not enough. Plus the salvation that you and I may know today, only came after the death and resurrection of Christ, not before. If Peter had died before Christ died...he would have gone to Paradise with Moses and Abraham and the others. Moses was not "saved" as described in the New Testiment, he never experienced the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as you and I would. |