ChristiansUnite Forums

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

This is definitely a hot topic, one that appears to have many Christians divided on what the Holy Bible either does or does not teach.

Please, this poll is about what the Holy Bible either does or does not teach on this subject. This question is not about individual rights, rather about what the Holy Bible teaches.

Please try to give a Biblical answer to this poll and quote the Scriptures as your authority. Non-Christians are specifically excluded from this poll since they don't believe in the Holy Bible.

Please, let's have a serious attempt at letting the Holy Bible speak on this topic.

Love In Christ,
Tom

FWIW, I think the protestant bible is ambiguous on the matter.

Isa 44:24

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
KJV
Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
KJV
Isa 44:2

2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen
KJV

Ps 106:38-39
38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.
KJV

Prov 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
KJV

Ebia,

I disagree, but feel free to use your Bible, Catholic I assume. I doubt that it is ambiguous, and I doubt that the teaching of the Catholic Church is ambiguous either.

Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to Sister Reba,

Thanks for posting some excellent Scriptures to get us started. This is a lot to study and think about in one post.

Love In Christ,
Tom

All I meant was, I believe there is a verse somewhere in the deuterocanoncial books that specifically speaks against abortion, where as there clearly isn't in the rest of the canon.  I own and use variety bibles of both persuasions - as it happens my favorite is a catholic one, but mostly because I like the style of translation of the New Jerusalem.

The rest of the bible makes it quite clear that killing children is unacceptable - I don't imagine anyone would argue otherwise.   It does not unambiguously imply that an embryo or fetus is a child in that sense.  I believe it is, but I don't believe the bible is clear on the issue, or that the case is as clear cut as some would make out - the verses above could be seen as pointing in that direction, but they are hardly unambiguous.

That seems pretty unequivocal. God says he knew us before we were in the mother's womb...

It's not so much the proving of "murdering the children", but's it's a matter of "proving" whether or not a few fetal cells are considered a child.

If one considers the multitude of prophecies (do I really have to quote all those verses) and instances where God tells people that a "child will be born unto you" it seems very much like long, long before even the conception of the child God has planned for it.



David spoke that as he was nearing death to his son. But it seems from the time God spoke it to David (prior to Solomon's birth), David believed it would be so.


Job seems to point out the difference between the day he was born and the day he was conceived.

Sorry, I guess this is more opinion that anything. It's hard not to use your own moral opinions in something like this.

It will be interesting to see what everyone comes up with.

Gracey
† be filled with his hope †

's fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't demonstrate that aborting is murder, just that it might be interfering in God's plan.  After all, the majority of embryos that are concieved die in the first few days anyway, so God clearly doesn't intend all conceptions to lead to birth.  Everytime we get in the way of God's plan we sin, but much of the time we don't know what God's plan is anyway.  The quotes make it quite clear that God knew us BEFORE we were even conceived, but you surely wouldn't say we exist as humans before we were concieved - consequently it doesn't prove that we are fully human immediately after conception.

a.  so what?
b.  its hebrew poetic style to repeat the same idea in different words - see the psalms.

Indeed it is.

Seem to have forgotten to say - I know RCC teaching on this is unambiguous, but then, I'm not catholic.

Nobody can convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. I was merely showing the possibility given the words used.

And as far I know, being born and being conceived are two different things, regardless of hebrew ideas.

†† hope springs eternal ††


Gracey

I believe the Bible is somewhat ambiguous on the matter of whether a foetus in the womb is a person, and therefore on the issue of whether abortion is ok or not.

I do think that the Bible does teach that intentional miscarriage (that is what abortion is) is not a punishable offence under the Law. I'd point you to Exodus 21:22-25 and Numbers 5 on this. The first states that if, during fighting, someone injures a woman so that she miscarries, no one is to be punished, though I fine will be levied. If she herself is injured, an eye for an eye applies. Evidently the foetus is not here legally considered to be a person.
In Numbers 5 (the law of jealousy) a man who suspects without evidence being available that his wife is unfaithful is told to take her to the priest, where she is to be given the water of bitterness. If she has been with another man, she will swell up and her thigh shall fall away. That is a strong indication of a miscarriage being induced, to me. Neither the man nor the priest are to be responsible should this occur, but the woman is to be punished for adultery.

To be honest, I am not sure of scripture's overall teaching on this issue. There seems to be ambiguity.

ReligiousTolerance.org on Abortion (http://www.religioustolerance.org/abortion.htm) (thought this might be useful)

::Emma::

I believe the Bible is somewhat ambiguous on the matter of whether a foetus in the womb is a person, and therefore on the issue of whether abortion is ok or not.


      ::)

It would interest me to know the view, on the abortion issue of the owner of this forum.

      I'm adopted, the result of an "affair." The Law in 1963 protected my right to exist, thank God. My birth mother considered an illegal abortion to cover up her affair but was afraid, thank God!

     Had I been conceived in 1983 instead of 1963 I would never have been born! I would have been murdered to cover up the sin of my birth mother.

     Pro Abortion people basicly deny my right to life. They wish my birth mother had the right to murder me just as women have the right to murder their babies today.

    How dare you deny me my right to life! The law protected my right to life then but that law is gone now.

    If you support abortion, you deny the right of life to those who were saved from abortion by the law that is now gone.

   You'd rather see me dead, unborn, so that my mother could have had the right to choose to murder me, and hide her affair. You may see abortion as some tissue and cells but for those of us who escaped being murdered in the womb, we become PEOPLE! I only here because the law in 63 protected me from murder.

    Look me in the eye and tell me my mother should have had the right to murder me, and then DUCK!

                                                           Paul2 >:(

I would be interested in knowing the view of the abortion issue of the owner of this forum.

Abortion is one of those areas where there is not any gray.  One is pro life or pro death.  Using pretty words such as ‘ pro choice’ does not change the facts. The words ‘pro choice’ are a frilly mask for a gross evil.  Those who are not pro life are pro death. As Christians do we have the strength to stand for life? Or do we pander to the masses to be accepted before man?

A business, or club, just about any group of people have views they adhere to many are broad wide paths that can be traveled by many. These entities are not in the same league as Christians. We have a big wonderful manual to live by.

When we say we are Christians and we embezzle from our employer that act reflects on other Christians like no other group. Let a pastor in town have an affair and all Christians are lumped in the same pot.  Not so with the manager of the store.

As a Christian posting on a forum that says it is a Christian forum it is my responsibility to understand if the forum is indeed Christian.  This is apposed to places like pogo or msn chat they do not claim Christianity.

Many view are espoused here they all are with in the boundaries of teaching of the Word. Forums were everyone is completely of like mind would be boring, very boring. Yet as Christians we have a core belief we understand must be held too, the Cross … resurrection ….for me abortion is also a core issue.  

I would be interested in knowing the view of the abortion issue of the owner of this forum.

Paul2,  I am so glad you are here! You force me to study scripture. I was thinking of you when i was posting about the  forums  being boring if we all of 'completely like minds'. Glad your here  :)

     Reba,

    Thank you for the kind words. I know we disagree about prophecy alot, and I was starting to think you didn't like me. I wouldn't blame you, you disagree with me so you see my interpretation of prophecy as incorrect and perhaps even dangerous. We do agree on most Salvation issues especially those with are in effect now at the present time. We differ on future things but where we are in time now, we agree with each other on many issues.

    I attack interpretations, not the people who believe them. Its easy to assume someone who disagrees with you is therefore your enemy but that is not so. I often feel that those like you who often disagree with the interpretation I teach wish I'd shut up and go away, wish I'd never been born, consider me the enemy, the false teacher, the antichrist...

      Know this, I believe what I say, I would never try to miss lead anyone. I'm taking a Huge risk and realize it by trying to teach. The more I study the more evidence I find confirming my beliefs. Instead of doubts arising, I find more answers that stengthen my beliefs.

    See me as you will, but know that I truely believe this is my purpose for living, my pre-destined role for me to do. I wage war against Satan, the only way I know how, I try to rescue people from his grasp. I see the world on the brink of eternity. If someone dies, their eternal fate is then sealed. When God is done with me, I'll die, until then, I'm immortal. I can't be killed until God allows it, but I sure can suffer.

    I know when I meet Jesus, face to face, I'm gonna smell like smoke. Many things in my life will burn up, Thank God for that. I may smell of smoke but I hope I also will have some crowns to place at his feet. Paul is my favorite writer, I can relate to Paul, Woe to me if I don't preach the Gospel.

    God seems to use me to reach people that others can't. I have my role, pre-destined for me to do and its a gift, a priveledge. God doesn't need me, a talking rock would be far more effective and probably much easier than using me. I see it as a unmerited gift that God ALLOWS (puts up with) me the gift of helping lead someone to eternal life just as I see my son, Christian, as a gift God gave me allowing me to raise up a son for God, God gave my son his soul and allowed me to provide the flesh, thats awesome. God allowing us to be part of creation is awesome and God allowing us to be part of Salvation, which has eternal effect is beyond awesome!

    I'm fighting for souls. I want everyone to be saved. When God fixes us we'll love each other. You may not like me now, but you'll just love me when Jesus gets done fixing me!

    Thanks for letting me know your glad I'm alive, and can tolerate me being here. That means alot to me, more than you think.

                                                      Paul2

Never once have I doubted the sincerity of your heart.
 

Psalms 139:13 For You have possessed my inward parts; You wove me in the womb of my mother.
14 I will thank You, for with awesome ways I am distinguished; Your works are marvelous, and my soul knows it very well.
15 My bones were not hidden from You when I was made in secret; when I was woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my embryo; and in Your book all my members were written the days they were formed, and not one was yet among them.

*****  That says it all  ;D   ;D   ;D

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

There are many excellent posts here that make you think. There are also many that touch the heart with personal feelings and Scriptures from HIS HOLY WORD. Thank you all for your input, thoughts, and posts. Please forgive me if part of my post is a partial repeat of some Scriptures that have already been posted.
____________________

Generally, there is a contrast throughout the Holy Bible between the barren and that which brings forth fruit. This contrast is applied to land, Christians, the womb of a woman, and many other things in the Holy Bible.

Generally, that which is barren may be said to be desolate, without increase, without fruit, and without blessing. Generally, that which bears fruit is said to be an increase, blessed or with blessing.

Regarding the seed and fruit of the womb, who gives it and who forms it? The CREATOR of all, Almighty God, gives all and creates all. The CREATOR of all, Almighty God, forms all. Man does not know or understand the ways of God, and it is not man's place to question the ways, will, and purpose of Almighty God. Man may pray that God guides them and helps them walk within HIS WILL AND PURPOSE, but man may NOT question the will and purpose of Almighty God, THE CREATOR.

It is important for man to never forget that ONLY ALMIGHTY GOD IS THE CREATOR, certainly not man who was formed by THE CREATOR from clay. Thus, all CREATION is formed by HIM and belongs to HIM. All man needs to know is "THE CREATOR'S WAYS ARE PAST FINDING OUT."
____________________

Genesis 49:25  Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

Deuteronomy 7:13  And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

Genesis 30:2  And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

Psalms 127:3  Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Exodus 21:22  If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Ecclesiastes 11:5  As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

Isaiah 44:24  Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isaiah 46:3  Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:

Isaiah 49:1  Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

Jeremiah 1:5  Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Jeremiah 20:17  Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.

____________________

If someone is still wondering how I feel about abortion, I will make myself completely clear. The child in a mother's womb, regardless of how mature or immature, belongs to GOD and was created by GOD. The child DOES NOT belong to the mother or the dad to do with as they desire, nor does THE CREATOR give the parents choice about whether or not they wish to MURDER the creation of ALMIGHTY GOD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

AMEN   TOM!

The eggs and sperm that come together to form an embryo are also creations of God.  Is destroying those murder?

First I can think of 2 now right from memory.
1. Thou shall not kill.

and in the Old Testament if a man hurt a woman who was pregnant, if the child didnt die, the man wouldnt be killed. If the man did kill the child while killing the woman then the man should be put to death. I will have to look more to see the rest. I just wanted to send a quick post.

Oklahoma Howdy to MalkyEL,

AMEN SISTER!

I don't know how I missed your post. This is a beautiful portion of Scripture. I guess that I got tunnel-vision the day I posted mine. It appears that we posted almost at the same time.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to Tony350,

First, welcome to Christians Unite.

Thanks for your input on this important Christian topic.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I know abortion, is against,  teachings of the Bible.

Each persons life is in the hands, of the Lord. Job 12:10: In [God's] hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.

Isaiah and Paul addressed the majesty of God's creation, including human life: Isaiah 42:5:  ... God the LORD who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it.... Acts 17:25: "... because he himself [God] gives all men life and breath and everything else."

Children are a gift-- a reward-- from God to us:  Psalm 127:3: ... children are a reward from [the LORD].

The Holy Bible teaches that our Heavenly Father knows and loves each person before birth, and that He has a plan for each person's life. Of the many Scriptures addressing this issue which could be quoted here are only a few.

Psalm 139:13-16: 13For you created me in my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15My frame was not hidden from you when I was in that secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
Jeremiah 1:4-5: 4The word of the LORD came to me saying, 5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart...."
Isaiah 49:1, 5a: 1... Before I was born the LORD called me.... || 5And now the LORD says-- he who formed me to be his servant....

 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.  (GENESIS 1:28 - KJV)

And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. (GENESIS 9:1 - KJV)

And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction. (GENESIS 41:52 - KJV)

See our children is our fruit, so why would we get rid of that when we are commanded to have it. And it was our choice why you or me have a child. don't we know that it is a result of what we do, if we don't want a child then abstain.

AMEN BLAD!

I see this is your first post, so WELCOME!


I look forward to reading your posts and having fellowship with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 4:19-20 NASB  And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.  Now to our God and Father be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Amen BLAD, and welcome to Christians Unite.

 :)  Abortion is murder.  God said DO NOT MURDER.  There for it is a sin. 8)

While to gether, they spark life, separately they have not brought about "conception", a word God uses to define our beginning. Life begins at conception, the union of sperm and egg.

I am new this board and debated in my heart wether or not I should chime in. My perspective is personal as I had an abortion 10 years ago. If  the law was as it was in 1963, I would have less heartache forsure. Although God has redeemed me , I have to say from my own experience that child was and still is very real to me. In the grieving process I wrote that child a letter that I carry in my bible of apology and love. Noone can convince me that that child was anything less than a human being growing inside of me and I chose out of fear to murder him/her. I pray that I can do my part in leading young girls to understand the consequences of sin , but that having a baby that wasn't planned even though hard, is the best choice. You see 3 years later I still hadn't GOT IT and was pregnant again. I had a wonderful little boy who is now 7 and 2 others that are 4 and 2. I have a wonderful relationship with the Lord and a great ministry, that doesn't take away from what I did.
Just want you all to see the personal side. Its so easy to pass judgment as Christians and to water down the truth that is so evident in scripture.

Hi again Dawn. Im personally glad that you did "chime in". It is one thing for us to teach what the Bible says but it is a whole lot more for someone that has been there. I thank you for sharing that as hard as I am sure that it must have been for you to do so. I too hope and pray that others will listen to what you have to say on this and will make the right decision.

Regardless of what may have happened or why, Jesus  is waiting with open arms for each of us who have believed in Him. His grace and mercy transcend ALL sin. The ground at the cross is level and He has forgiven the most heinous crime imanigable to man just as He has forgiven the least imaginable sin known to man.

I think the reason these posts seem so harsh is that it is important that we understand the depth at which God sees our sin. And given that our nation is on the brink of condoning abortion coast to coast brings all this to the fore. The same legislators who say we may not lie about our taxes, or on contracts, or in bank accounts, or other aspects of life is about to say we can kill the innocent. We must take a stand, as difficult and harsh as it may appear to some.

Your post seems to speak of the incredible pain you still suffer. I'm sure you would not want anyone else to experience that pain so surely you have no problem with getting these truths to those who are considering abortion.

You are to be commended for seeking God's salvation, turning around and putting your experience to working in His Kingdom. That takes huge courage and I admire someone who can do that. I'm quite sure our King is very proud of you.

Sister Dawn,

We all have horrible things that we have done in our pasts that would be hard to bear without forgiveness. For those of us who belong to JESUS, our sins are washed away by the precious blood that JESUS CHRIST shed on the Cross for us.

I admire your courage and your testimony. It is apparent that GOD is using you to help many others. I have heard the opposite from prominent women in our society who seemed almost proud to say that they had an abortion. They were in the political battle to continue this practice. I'm glad to know that there are voices of reason who stand to oppose them. So I'll say GOD Bless you - I will be praying for your continued ministry. THANK YOU for what you are doing.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 3:8-9 NASB  More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

Thanks you for your sweet words all of you. In no way do I ever want the Glory to be on me speaking out, but only on what God forgave me for and the fact that Sin is Sin no matter what the degree. I also want to get across to Saved people that they can be seduced and if they are not wearing the full armor of God to be prepared for a an attack.Christians are just as capable of doing horrific things if not grounded in the word.

What this comes down to for any Christian is answering some questions.

1) What is murder? - The willful taking of anothers earthly life.  Destroying the body and releasing the soul.
2) Does an embryo have a soul? - Scientifically and secularly we cannot say.  But Biblically if God knew us in the womb and before then we must have had something of a soul.  So yes according to the Bible an embryo has a soul.
3) Does an embryo have a body? - As soon as the sperm and the egg unit they start the body.  This is the flesh.  If you argue that there is no heart or no brain or anything like that then you also would state that our soul is limited to being contained only in something that has a brain a heart or whatever else it is that you think of.   

As far as the Bible is concerned as soon as there is the creation by God in conception there is a soul in place.  No matter the form of the body the soul is present.  The Bible indicates that murder is the end of the flesh and releasing of the soul.  Thus abortion is murder.

AMEN BROTHER JERRY!

ALMIGHTY GOD knew the number of hairs on our heads before the foundation of the world. In short, the baby is a baby and a human being, regardless of how hard many try to deny this. The baby belongs to THE CREATOR - ALMIGHTY GOD - not the mother or the father of the child.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 139:16 NASB  Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

(My Note:  the eyes spoken of in the Scripture above are the eyes of ALMIGHTY GOD. The unformed substance spoken of in the Scripture above is a child in the mother's womb. If someone wishes to pay any attention to the Holy Bible, it doesn't get any more simple than this.)

Brothers and Sisters,

I was recently informed about some twisted and ugly thinking that some people have about abortions. ALMIGHTY GOD knew all before the foundation of the world. That's a given for all Christians, and we know about GOD'S unmatched and unimagined POWER. It's sickening that some people say that GOD approves of abortion simply because HE knew about it before the foundation of the world. I thought that I had heard just about every evil argument there is for abortion to continue, but I thought wrong.

This twisted line of thinking could also be used to indicate that GOD approves of all sorts of things that HE hates. ALMIGHTY GOD does have all POWER AND MIGHT to do anything HE pleases in heaven or on earth, but not using that awesome power to stop things HE hates does NOT suggest or hint that HE approves of them.

The time will come when GOD does use HIS awesome POWER to stop the devil, defeat the devil, and lock the devil away. The SECOND COMING OF CHRIST will be with a SWORD and heavenly hosts as armies behind HIM. Blood will flow like rivers. BUT first, the earth will endure a 7 year Tribulation Period. The beast (devil) will rule over the earth from Jerusalem for the last half of the Tribulation Period. Great hosts will also die during this period of time. The reign of the beast will signal the end of GOD'S patience in dealing with evil mankind. Evil will see and feel the terrible, HOLY WRATH OF GOD.

The great and spreading evil that we see today IS NOT a hint that ALMIGHTY GOD approves of it. Those who haven't accepted JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour will suffer the eternal wrath of GOD in the fires of HELL. The sins of those in JESUS have been washed away by the shed blood of JESUS CHRIST on the Cross, so there is no condemnation for those in CHRIST.

Those who hint that ALMIGHTY GOD causes or approves of abortion, alternative lifestyles, and many other abominations commit BLASPHEMY. ALMIGHTY GOD does NOT approve of the works of the devil and sin. Those who say that HE must approve of it or author it because HE has the power to stop it and doesn't are calling GOD evil. The choices of man are NOT authored or commanded by GOD simply because GOD is all powerful and the CREATOR. GOD is HOLY and does NO EVIL. There will come a time when ALMIGHTY GOD will pour out HIS righteous and HOLY WRATH on evil and it will be for eternity.

I feel sorry for those who have rejected JESUS CHRIST because I know about the fire that will be their eternal home. The time might be growing short for GOD'S Mercy and patience to mankind. If you are lost and reading this, won't you consider accepting JESUS CHRIST as your Lord and Saviour today? Tomorrow might be too late. If you want more information, many sweet Christians here and elsewhere will be happy to help you.


1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Amen and AMEN!

Amen brother it is indeed twisted and sick thinking. I too feel for those that are lost and don't even know it or refuse to acknowledge it.


Please do come to Him.

REBa, how right you are.  Amen!!

Abortion is legal killing.  Plain and simple.  There is abosultely no justification anywhere in the Bible for legal killing being ok.  All one has to do is imagine standing in front of Jesus and asking if it is ok.  Oh, can you imagine what our Lord would say?  By the way...I have a direct phone number to our Senators where you can voice your opinion....in a Christian way,, of course!

The Bible says thou shall not kill. This means murder. To murder someone they have to be alive. So the question comes in as to when life begins. Someone said it was when egg and sperm come together. This isn't right. Sperm and egg are only part of the equation. Over 50% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion or miscarriage before Mom even knows she is pregnant. Many times a fertilized egg will enter the womb, but never attach. Are these little floaters really babies? NO! In the Bible it says life is in the blood. It also refers to breath. So life would begin when the fertilized egg attaches to the uterus wall. When that little floater gets it's first drop of blood or first molecule of oxygen, then it is alive. To do anything to remove the little guy would amount to murder. To take birth control pills or the morning after pill to keep the egg from attaching is not the same as an abortion. After an egg is fertilized, it takes several days for it to come down the tube and into the womb. The morning after pill causes it to not attach. If it was never attached, it was never alive.

Many would argue your overall position based on this statement, as all human cells have a certain amount of blood and oxygen in them. It is enough to sustain them until they are able to attach and receive more.

The Bible tells us that:

Jer 1:5  Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Personally, I think the morning after pill is just another means for man to sanctify immoral behaviour.

So do you also believe all the little floaters that don't attach normally have souls?  I personally don't. I believe the soul comes with attachment. That is when the first blood or oxygen is delivered. There may be a trace of blood in the cells, but I believe it is the attachment that delivers life and soul.
The morning after pill may be an easy way of covering up immoral behavior for some. I don't know exactly how to think on it. I don't believe a child will be concieved if God doesn't want it to be, but in the case of rape or incest, I just don't know.  :)

Before a child is attached the cells have already divided many times, receiving nourishment from the mother's egg. It can take as long as up to 10 days before it attaches. It takes both blood and oxygen in order for the cells to divide so it has already received such from the mother. In that essence it is a baby from the moment of conception. In other words a women has conceived at the moment of fertilization.

As the Bible said in the verse that I gave, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee".

All I know is this.... a sperm and an egg ONLY create one thing... a HUMAN BEING .... to STOP that development is: WRONG!  NO ONE knows .. only GOD,  if that sperm and egg will make it all the way to making THAT Human Being!!

Amen to that. God has the final say so. For man to try to take the responability on themselves just isn't right.

Amens from this "corner" as well!

God is the Creator of all life...we do not have the priority of ending life...even when we know that child is not PERFECT.  Trust me I'm a 43 yr old male that became disabled from a gundhot wound to the head and I'm sure glad we abided by 'insect' politics if you know what I mean...God did not make me hget hurt in fact
He rescued me from the bowels of hell...  We serve an awesome Daddy....
Enjoy.....
Thanks to 700 Club

Amen! I'm sorry to hear about your mishap. We do serve a wonderful and merciful Father.

me too brother .AMEN

chiefersone I haven't welcomed you yet so......... Hi and welcome to Christians Unite forum.  I'm sorry to hear about your wounding, but God has a use for you brother.

Also add another AMEN!!

Hello Chiefersone,

WELCOME!


I look forward to reading your posts and having fellowship with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:26-27 NASB  In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Hello Chiefersone,


Welcome to the forum.... we are made whole through Jesus!!

I believe that any kind of abortion is murder.  And that there is never an excuse to kill a child even in rape or incest.  I believe that something like the morning after pill is also wrong.