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On March 11, 2006 the Colonel posted

 
 Acts 2:38 Baptism in Jesus Name
« on: March 11, 2006, 05:45:58 PM »  

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I have a simple question and that is, in the book of Acts the only mode or formula used for baptism was in the Name of Jesus Christ, my question is why is  not this the formula used throughout christianiity today?


A short while later Soldier4Christ responded,

God Bless in Jesus Name



 

 Re: Acts 2:38 Baptism in Jesus Name
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2006, 06:25:17 PM »  



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As in most such things men tend to go their own way.





In my opinion, this is the best answer given!

 

As I survey the rest of the replies posted, I am amazed at the lengths that some people will go to try and twist the intent of Acts 2:38 just because it does not fit conveniently into their own Creed or Personal Theology!

 

Of those who posted replies in this thread the first thing that I would ask each of you,

 

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Some might respond that they Speak with the Authority of the Written Word as the Holy Spirit Illuminates their Understanding!

 

This would be an excellent answer except that everybody else can also make the same claim!

 

Nobody seems to be on the same sheet of music and it is obvious that the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself!

 

While trying to remain humble, let me state that I have been Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ, therefore, I can speak with the Authority based upon 35 years of personal experience!

 

It is my intention to reopen this thread and shed some additional light on this very controversial subject!

 

 However, before I can do that, I feel the necessity to clear up a language problem!

 

The term Saved, Salvation, Savior, etc, is highly abused!  Most professing believers don't know the meaning of the word in Hebrew and Greek and to further complicate the situation, they will then try to formulate their Doctrines of SOTEROLOGY based upon their own limited experience, or even worse, their total lack of experience!

 Your Brother In Christ

Hugh Mann

 

Salvation


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Many of the divisions within the Church are centered on the requirements for Salvation! This is due, in part, because of the meaning of the word! Many Opinions on the subject have been expressed, and many Doctrines have been formulated based upon man's understanding of the word Salvation as it used in their Native Translations, without giving heed to the meaning of the word as it was delivered in the Original Language texts! Because of this, many people are using the word Save, or Salvation to express concepts that are not entirely accurate! Even though the whole world referred to a cow as a frog, cows would still be cows, and frogs would still be frogs!


 

As we seek to Rightly Divide the Word of Truth, we must remember that one word in the Hebrew, or Greek Languages, may have several different interpretations, any, or all of which may apply! The reverse is also true! One word in English, may have several different renderings in Hebrew or Greek!



As we consider all that God has for us, many events may seem to happen simultaneously, or in such rapid succession that they seem simultaneous! This is one of the reasons that the word for salvation is so misused!

 

Too often people will try to make the Scriptures conform to their own personal experience, (or lack thereof), rather than making their personal experience conform to the Scriptures! Some people will try to lump a multitude of events under one label!


 

Each person's experience is unique! God has allowed some flexibility because of this. One person may experience these events in a different order of succession from someone else! I believe that it is vitally important that every believer receive all that God has for them!


 

If we attempt to lump all these events into one container, and call that container Salvation, someone might not receive all that God has for them, yet be deceived into believing that they had! We should not seek to oversimplify, nor overcomplicate the Gospel! However to avoid Doctrinal Errors, it is essential that we call each event by it's proper name, and only by it's proper name! It is not my place to sit in judgement over another person's Salvation experience! They were there when it happened, they know exactly what happened to them, however they might not have experienced all that God has made available, and be lulled into a false sense of security, by someone else's attempt to oversimplify the Gospel!


 

There are five different root words in the Greek language that are translated into English as Save, Saved, Saving, or Salvation! In addition there is one other word that is translated as "except," which is not relevant to this conversation!


 

The following definitions have been extracted from Strong's Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, which is part of his Exhaustive Concordance!


4982.  sozo, sode´-zo; from a primary sw`" sos (contr. for obs. savo" saos, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (lit. or fig.):— heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

 

4990.  soter, so-tare´; from 4982; a deliverer, i.e. God or Christ:— saviour.

4991.  soteria, so-tay-ree´-ah; fem. of a der. of 4990 as (prop. abstr.) noun; rescue or safety (phys. or mor.):— deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

4992. soterion, so-tay´-ree-on; neut. of the same as 4991 as (prop. concr.) noun; defender or (by impl.) defence:— salvation.

 

1295.  diasozo, dee-as-odze´-o; from 1223 and 4982; to save thoroughly, i.e. (by impl. or anal.) to cure, preserve, rescue, etc.:— bring safe, escape (safe), heal, make perfectly whole, save.

 

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Deliverance

Compare Acts 2:21 & Romans 10:13 with Joel 2:32. Both Peter And Paul quoted this Prophesy from Joel, yet we see differences in the translations from Hebrew to English, and from Greek to English!


 

4422. malat, maw-lat’; a prim. root; prop. to be smooth, i.e. (by impl.) to escape (as if by slipperiness); caus. to release or rescue; spec. to bring forth young, emit sparks:— deliver (self), escape, lay, leap out, let alone, let go, preserve, save, × speedily, × surely.


 

As we recognize that both Peter, and Paul quoted the same verse from Joel, we can Super-Refine the "Intent" of the of the word "Saved" at least as it is used in the Context of those passages cited!


 

By eliminating all of the Hebrew and Greek Definitions, which are not shared jointly, we can safely surmise that the Primary Intent of the word "saved," as it is used in the context of those specific passages is limited to Deliverance, Escape, Rescue, or being Preserved! However, this does not negate the other alternative definitions of Salvation!


 

As we consider the concept of deliverance, we can use the example of the delivery boy who delivers a Pizza from the store, to our home! It is easy enough to visualize the two phases of Deliverance! What we are delivered from, and what we are delivered unto!


 

Colossians 1:13

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This application of the word delivered is not the same as any of the five words that are translated as the various forms of save. This application is specifically limited to Escape, or Rescue, as it's interpretation of delivered! This application of delivered is synonymous with some, but not all of the meanings of Save! As we consider the two phases of Deliverance, we first must realize where we have escaped, or been rescued from, and then where we have been delivered or translated unto!

 

As we look at the example set by the Nation of Israel, God used Moses to deliver Israel's descendants out of Egyptian Bondage! Once they had crossed through the Red Sea, they were safe, they were free, they were no longer slaves to the Egyptians! Sadly, with the exception of Joshua and Caleb, that entire generation perished in the wilderness, because of their unbelief! They would not enter into their Promised Land when given the opportunity! As Moses delivered them out of Egypt, it was Joshua who delivered the Next Generation into the Promised Land!

 

It is interesting to note that Jesus and Joshua shared the same Hebrew Name!

That Name is Yeshu'a!


 

Much of the Church is like Israel in the Wilderness, they have been delivered out of the Power of Satanic Bondage, but they have not yet entered into their Promised Land! Just because we are no longer under the taskmaster's whip, and are partakers of the Heavenly Manna, is no reason to be lulled into a false sense of security!


 

We may have taken a step in the right direction, but until we cross over Jordan, we will not inherit the Kingdom of God, which is our Promised Land!


 

( Author's note, Crossing over Jordan in not a reference to going to Heaven when we are Graveyard Dead, rather it is a reference to entering into a New Dimension of Spiritual Living, as we go beyond Deliverance, and step into the realm of the New Birth)!


 

Within some Churches today, the term deliverance is equated with Exorcism, which is the casting out of evil or unclean spirits! As Jesus drove the Merchants and Moneychangers from the Temple, even so, the Temples of our Bodies must be cleansed from every Satanic influence! The cleansing of our body, soul, and spirit are an essential part of Deliverance, but the process is far from complete!


 

Jesus taught that the unclean spirit, when it is cast out, will walk through dry places seeking rest! When it finds no rest elsewhere, it will return to whoever it came out of, and finding the house all cleansed and decorated, it will reenter, and bring several even worse than itself! In this manner, the latter end is worse than the beginning! Anytime a vacuum is created, something will seek to fill up that Vacuum! In order to prevent the reentry of the evil spirits, it is necessary to fill up that Void!

 

To fill that void, we need the Laws of God written on the Tables of our Heart, His Word hidden in our Hearts, and His Spirit seated upon the Mercy Seat, which is beyond the Veil, within the Realm of our Innermost Being!

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Healing

In addition to being our Deliverer, Jesus is also our Healer! Jesus did a Total Work! Jesus did a finished Work! Prior to going to the Cross, Jesus was scourged with a Cat of Nine Tails! This was nine whips on one handle. Woven into each of the nine leather lashes were bits of broken bone, and jagged metal! Each of these lashes had a lead weight woven into it's tip, and when it struck, it was traveling at near supersonic speeds! When it struck, it would literally peel the hide off of a man! The customary scourging was 39 strokes! This was the equivalent of 351 strokes with a single whip!


1 Peter 2:24


 

As with our previous discussion on deliverance, this word for healing is not one of the five root words that are translated as saved, but again it is synonymous with some, but not all of the meanings of Save! This provision for our Healing was prophesied hundreds of years before it became a reality!


Isaiah 53:5

"... and with his stripes we are healed."


 

Sickness and Death entered into this world as a by-product of Sin! On the Cross, Jesus became a "Garbage Can" upon whom all of the sins of the Human Race was dumped! Jesus did more than just bare all of our sins, He took care of all of the by-products of sin at the same time! This included all of the Shame and Degradation, all of the Sickness and Disease, and all of the Cares of this life as well! Man is body, soul, and spirit, and Jesus made total provisions for the total person!

 


 

Just like dandelions, you can cut the flowers forever, but until you dig out the root, the flowers will keep coming back! For many physical afflictions, an inner healing is necessary first!

 




 

Jesus paid the price for all of our physical afflictions, as well for our sins! If we do not claim the fullness of our inheritance, it is not his fault, but ours!

 

Health

In addition to making provision for our Healings, God has given us his Laws as a way to stay healthy! The Mosaic Law spells out in detail those animals that were considered to be unclean, and forbidden for consumption. Whether or not, we as Christians, are bound to observe a Kosher Diet, or whether or not we are Spiritually defiled by eating any of these unclean foods is not the issue, rather it becomes a matter of exercising good judgement and common sense to avoid foods that are high in cholesterol, or animals that are scavengers, or carrion eaters!


 

Preserved

Another concept included in the term Salvation is that of being Preserved. A pickle is a preserved cucumber. The pickle will last indefinitely, while the Cucumber will begin to perish shortly after it is removed from the vine!


 

Born Again?

 

One of the most common errors in the Church

is to equate the term Salvation

with being Born Again!

 

Salvation is an essential prelude to that experience, but it is improper to use the two terms interchangeably! You may be Delivered, Healed, Rescued, Preserved, or made Whole, without experiencing the events we call: Conversion, Transformation, Regeneration, or the Renewal of our Minds! Within the Church there are a multitude of empty vessels that have been cleansed, repaired, and made ready for use, but they are still empty vessels! They will be of little use to God until they become filled with His Spirit!

 

Conclusion

In the final analysis it is important to remember that God loves all of us! He wants each of us to rise to our highest potential, and claim the fullness of our Holy Heritage! As we interact with one another, it is important not to condemn others because they have not yet attained unto the same level of Spiritual Maturity, and understanding, as we have! The flip side of this is that we should not disregard the possibility that others have risen to a higher level than we have, and are operating in Spiritual Realms that we know little, or nothing about!


 

It would be wrong to condemn a child, simply for being a child, however, children are expected to eventually grow up! If a person has reached an age of physical maturity, but is still wearing diapers, and speaking gibberish, would be a sure indication that something is wrong!

 


Spiritual Maturity is not measured by how long ago a person made their Profession of Faith, but rather by how much of God’s Word they have assimilated, and begun to act upon! It would be wrong for a child to desire to remain a child all of it’s days! It would be equally wrong for those who are have been placed in leadership positions to hinder the Spiritual Growth and development of those people over whose souls they are charged to give watch!

 


It would be equally wrong

to recognize such a situation

and remain silent about it!


 

Each of us should reach out our hand in Love, to assist others in their Spiritual Growth and Maturity! If by chance, someone reaches out their hand to us, we should have the courtesy to investigate the situation, and determine for ourselves,


"Is the Grass really Greener,

on the other side of the fence?"


 

As I have mentioned earlier,

The Lord did not call me

to Shut Up the Kingdom of God to any man!

 

Rather,

He sent me to open those Gates

as wide as possible,

so that whosoever will,

may enter in!

Conclusion

We have previously discussed that the Name of Jesus in the Hebrew is Yeshu'a, which translates directly into English as Joshua! The Literal interpretation of this name means, The Lord My Savior, or the Salvation of God!


 

Matthew 1:21

And she shall bring forth a son,

and thou shalt call his name JESUS:

for he shall save his people from their sins.


 

Jesus is very properly named! For indeed he delivers, or rescues us from our sins! He is our way of escape! Even though we have "Super Refined" the term Salvation to that of Deliverance, we must not lose sight of the other meanings of the word in the Greek Language!


 

Jesus is our Savior, Deliverer, Rescuer, Preserver, Healer, and the One who makes us Whole! Moreover, there are many other words in the Greek Language, that are synonymous with these alternate definitions, and are used in the Scriptures that positively identify Jesus in each of these roles!


 

The Bottom Line,

"When you say Jesus,

you have said it all!"


 

In reply # 2,  I made the following comments,


Born Again?



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Salvation is an essential prelude to that experience, but it is improper to use the two terms interchangeably! You may be Delivered, Healed, Rescued, Preserved, or made Whole, without experiencing the events we call: Conversion, Transformation, Regeneration, or the Renewal of our Minds! Within the Church there are a multitude of empty vessels that have been cleansed, repaired, and made ready for use, but they are still empty vessels! They will be of little use to God until they become filled with His Spirit!





In reply #3  nChrist responds,





 Re: Acts 2:38 SALVATION
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2012, 05:58:00 AM »   



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John 3:3-7 KJV  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.  4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?  5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.  6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.  7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:18-23 KJV  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;  19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:  20  Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,  21  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.  22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:  23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


So thank you Brother Tom for your response,



So, WHAT"S YOUR POINT?  What are you really trying to say?



The "BALL" is in your Court!



Please Respond?



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN





James 1:18 (King James Version)


Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.




1 Peter 1:3-5 (King James Version)


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Indeed Salvation is not complete, finished, without being born again, being made whole, the renewing of the spirit, regeneration. For without this a person still cannot enter heaven, hence no Salvation.


Tit 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

My Dear Brother nChrist,

 

Thank you for your prompt response!  27 minutes, and at 03:34 in the morning no less! (Don't you ever sleep)?

 

Anyway, it seems that we have a genuine DIFFERENCE OF OPINION!  However we do agree on one thing!

 

 The Scriptures are the FINAL AUTHORITY, and the opinions of men mean nothing unless they agree with God's Word.  (I guess that is 2 things)!

 

 As you suggested, I re-read both passages you sent in 17 different translations, and also in 4 different languages, (English, Greek. Spanish, Latin), but in none of these could I find it spelled out verbatim,

 
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So let's expand the Context

 

 Chapter 3


Christ Teaches Nicodemus The Necessity Of Regeneration


  John 3:1-21 (King James Version)


There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


COMMENTARY


vv1-2

Nicodemus comes to Jesus by night and says to him,

 

 Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:


for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

 

We must remember that Jesus was a Prophet and was capable of perceiving the thoughts of others!  What Nicodemus is thinking is screaming louder than than what he is saying!

 

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vv-3

 

Jesus was never one to mince His Words, so he answers what Nicodemus is thinking, rather than what he is saying!

 

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There are some who try to interpret this as "Born from Above" but as we look at Nicodemus' response in vv-4 the only possible interpretation must be "BORN AGAIN!"  

 

vv5-9

Here we are introduced to the term "BORN OF THE SPIRIT"  which Jesus uses synonymously with "BORN AGAIN!"

 

It is not until vv 15-18 that the conversation shifts to Salvation and Eternal Life!

 

Let's move on,



 1 Peter 1:18-23 KJV  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;  19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:  20  Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,  21  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.  22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:  23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Again there is a greater context

 

1 Peter 1:1-25 (King James Version)

 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

In a different thread, you mentioned being a father, and a grandfather, so obviously you understand that a child must be CONCEIVED before it can ever be BORN!  For humans, there is a normal 9 month gestation period!  For those who are Conceived of the Spirit, the gestation period could be almost instantaneously, or it could be a very long time!


 

In Matthew 13:1-23 , Mark 4:1-20 , Luke 8:5-20  Jesus teaches the Parable of the Sower and illustrates how different results occur because of the different types of SOIL into which the seed is planted!

 

Notice 1 Peter 1:5 



5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time



compare,





Romans 8:16-25 (King James Version)


The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.




I really don't want to get side tracked, but it is obvious that there is a SALVATION YET TO COME, ( to wit, the redemption of our body)!  Regardless of how SAFE and SECURE that we think we might be,  the bottom line is that,

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MORE to Follow

Brother Hugh

Brother Tom,

Show Me!  Teach Me!  Give me Scripture that says, Being Born Again IS Salvation, and Salvation IS being Born Again.


From American Heritage Dictionary!


sal·va·tion (s²l-v³“sh…n) n. 1.a. Preservation or deliverance from destruction, difficulty, or evil. b. A source, means, or cause of such preservation or deliverance. 2. Theology. a. Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; redemption. b. The agent or means that brings about such deliverance. 3. Christian Science. The realization and demonstration of Life, Truth, and Love as supreme over all, carrying with it the destruction of the illusions of sin, sickness, and death. --sal·va“tion·al adj.

 re·born (r¶-bôrn“) adj. Emotionally or spiritually revived or regenerated.

Thank you for your new response!

1. I don't play Semantics

everyone is lost and will remain lost until they receive their glorified body.

I did not say this, neither do I believe it!

2.  A truly Born Again Christian is ALREADY a member of the BODY OF CHRIST and has the Holy Spirit of God living in their hearts. 

Thank You Very Much!  I couldn't have said it better!

However, for the sake of others following this thread, please explain what you mean by:

A truly Born Again Christian  How does this differ from a CINO (Christian in Name Only)  or perhaps the rank and file membership of most local congregations?

 please explain how the  truly Born Again Christian becomes a member of the BODY OF CHRIST?

please explain how the Holy Spirit comes to live within the heart of the truly Born Again Christian!

Feel free to share your own testimony!



3.  If I die tonight, it's absent from the body and present with the LORD.

The Jury is still out on that one???????


Man exists as a TRICHOTOMY of spirit, soul, and body!  1 Thes 5:23

At physical death the body decomposes back into the dust from which it was formed, and the spirit returns to it's father.  Heb 12 :9

but there are some who subscribe to Soul Sleep believing that the soul is laid to rest until such time as it is reunited with it's spirit in it's glorified resurrection body!

I don't feel that this is worth arguing about, for it only diverts us from more important things!

Ephesians 2:1-10  Wonderful passage of Scripture


8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  9  Not of works, lest any man should boast. 


Please note what this passage does not say!


This passage does not say, we are saved by Grace!

This passage does say, For by grace are ye saved.

Grace explains WHY?  It does not explain WHO, or HOW!

We are saved by a Savior,
and His Name is
The LORD JESUS CHRIST!

How are we SAVED?

His SHED BLOOD IS THE PURCHASE PRICE OF OUR REDEMPTION!

His SHED BLOOD also provides the ATONEMENT FOR OUR SINS!

1 John 1:5-10 (King James Version)
1 John 1:5 (King James Version) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I am starting to digress...........

More to come later,

Have a Nice Day

Brother Hugh

Save

Mt:1:21: And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


Mt:8:25: And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

This is obviously a reference to physical rescue!


Mt:11:27: All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mt:13:57: And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mt:14:30: But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

This is obviously a reference to physical rescue!



Mt:16:25: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.


Mt:17:8: And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mt:18:11: For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.


Mt:19:11: But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

(This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mt:27:40: And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

physical rescue


Mt:27:49: The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

physical rescue


Mk:3:4: And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.


Mk:5:37: And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.(This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mk:6:5: And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mk:6:8: And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse: (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mk:8:35: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.


Mk:9:8: And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Mk:15:30: Save thyself, and come down from the cross.

physical rescue

Lk:4:26: But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Lk:6:9: Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?


Lk:8:51: And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Lk:9:24: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.


Lk:9:56: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.


Lk:17:18: There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Lk:17:33: Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.


Lk:18:19: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

(This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Lk:19:10: For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Lk:23:37: And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

physical rescue



 

 

Lk:23:39: And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

physical rescue

Jn:6:22: The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one whereinto his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but that his disciples were gone away alone; (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


 

Jn:6:46: Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

(This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Jn:12:27: Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.


Jn:12:47: And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


Jn:13:10: Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Acts:2:40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


Acts:20:23: Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Acts:21:25: As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Acts:27:43: But the centurion, willing to save Paul, kept them from their purpose; and commanded that they which could swim should cast themselves first into the sea, and get to land:


Rom:11:14: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.


1Cor:1:21: For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


1Cor:2:2: For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

(This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


1Cor:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


1Cor:7:16: For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?


1Cor:9:22: To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.


2Cor:11:24: Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Gal:1:19: But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


Gal:6:14: But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. (This is that other word that is translated as save, but whose meaning is except, or only!)


1Tm:1:15: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.


1Tm:4:16: Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


Heb:5:7: Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;


Heb:7:25: Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


Jms:1:21: Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.


Jms:2:14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


Jms:4:12: There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


Jms:5:15: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

heal

Jms:5:20: Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


1Pt:3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


Jude:1:23: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Saved


Mt:10:22: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


Mt:19:25: When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


Mt:24:13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Mt:24:22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Mt:27:42: He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.


Mk:10:26: And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?


Mk:13:13: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


Mk:13:20: And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.


Mk:15:31: Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.


Mk:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Lk:1:71: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;


Lk:7:50: And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. (This is better rendered as healed, or made whole!) (We are saved by Grace, and Justified by Faith!)


Lk:8:12: Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


Lk:13:23: Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,


Lk:18:26: And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?


Lk:18:42: And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee. (This is better rendered as healed, or made whole!) (We are saved by Grace, and Justified by Faith!)
 

Lk:23:35: And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.


Jn:3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Jn:5:34: But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.


Jn:10:9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


Acts:2:21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Acts:2:47: Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Acts:4:12: Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

This is true with respect to DELIVERANCE, but considering the context it is equally true of HEALING



Acts:11:14: Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.


Acts:15:1: And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


Acts:15:11: But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


Acts:16:30: And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?


Acts:16:31: And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

Commentary,

As a Jailer, this man was held personally responsible for his prisoners, if they escaped, his life was forfeit, moreover, the life of his family was forfeit as well! There had just been a great earthquake, and the jailer assumed that as the walls came crashing down, that his prisoners would escape! The Jailer had been at the point of suicide, and asked what he must do to be delivered from his present circumstances! Paul told him to trust in the Lord, and he would be delivered from his present situation, and his family as well!

We must be careful not to read anything into this verse that is not there! The New Birth is an individual experience, just because one family member becomes Born of the Spirit, does not mean that every member of that family becomes Born of the Spirit! Later as this jailer took Paul and Silas to his house and ministered to their stripes, then Paul and Silas ministered to the Spiritual Needs of this man and his family, and then Baptized all of them!

 


Acts:27:20: And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away.  physical rescue


Acts:27:31: Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved. physical rescue


Rom:5:9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


Rom:5:10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Rom:8:24: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?


Rom:9:27: Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


Rom:10:1: Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Rom:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Rom:10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Rom:11:26: And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


1Cor:1:18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


1Cor:3:15: If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


1Cor:5:5: To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


1Cor:10:33: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

1Cor:15:2: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.


2Cor:2:15: For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:


Eph:2:5: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


1Thes:2:16: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.


2Thes:2:10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


1Tm:2:4: Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


1Tm:2:15: Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


2Tm:1:9: Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Ti:3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


1Pt:3:20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


1Pt:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?


2Pt:2:5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;


Jude:1:5: I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


Rv:21:24: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.


Saving


Heb:10:39: But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Heb:11:7: By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


 

 

 

Salvation


Lk:1:69: And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;


Lk:1:77: To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,


Lk:2:30: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,


Lk:3:6: And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.


Lk:19:9: And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.


Jn:4:22: Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.


Acts:4:12: Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Acts:13:26: Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.


Acts:13:47: For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.


Acts:16:17: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.


Acts:28:28: Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.


Rom:1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Rom:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Rom:11:11: I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


Rom:13:11: And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


2Cor:1:6: And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.


2Cor:6:2: (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)


2Cor:7:10: For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.


Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph:6:17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


Phil:1:19: For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,


Phil:1:28: And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.


Phil:2:12: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


1Thes:5:8: But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


1Thes:5:9: For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


2Thes:2:13: But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:


2Tm:2:10: Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.


2Tm:3:15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Ti:2:11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,


Heb:1:14: Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Heb:2:3: How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


Heb:2:10: For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.


Heb:5:9: And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Heb:6:9: But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.


Heb:9:28: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


1Pt:1:5: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


1Pt:1:9: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


1Pt:1:10: Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:


2Pt:3:15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;


Jude:1:3: Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


Rv:7:10: And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


Rv:12:10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


Rv:19:1: And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:


 

Semantics has to do with the "meanings of words" and this is what you have been doing throughout your posts in this thread, the taking of different meanings of words from the original languages and trying to make them fit into your theology.

1. Why do people need to be saved? Saved from what?

2. What happens when a person is saved?

To answer these questions will also answer how "Being Born Again IS Salvation, and Salvation IS being Born Again". That answer is also in your own posts here with the very scripture that you have posted.

Brother Tom,

 
And
 

Welcome to the discussion Soldier 4 Christ
 

Let me start with apologies for not replying sooner, but my internet server was down and I was not capable of sending or receiving any e mzil!

 
Unfortunately, there is a 10,000 character limitation on the amount that can be posted at any one time, and on several occasions  I have had to chop my postings into smaller bits in order to post them, only to find you responding to the first part faster than I could post the second or third part!  This in turn led to some misunderstanding and other breakdown in communications!

 

Example

When I spoke of SALVATION YET TO COME, and NOBODY IS WALKING ON STREETS OF GOLD JUST YET, I was indeed speaking of GLORIFICATION as the final phase of God's Total Package for us!  However, I never stated, nor implied that "NOBODY IS SAVED YET, or BORN AGAIN YET!"

 

We do not have to wait until we are GRAVEYARD DEAD to experience the ETERNAL LIFE that is promised unto us! 

 

Romans 8:11 (King James Version)
 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

This quickening of our mortal bodies is part of the Holy Spirit REGENERATION that we call being BORN AGAIN!


 

Let's move on to the real reason for this reply,

 

Brothers ,

 

It serves no purpose to BUTT HEADS or CROSS SWORDS over differences of opinion, especially when this is not a FORMAL DEBATE!  There is no JUDGE, MODERATOR, REFEREE, or NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY to enforce the RULES and EVALUATE the EVIDENCE SUBMITTED!

 

However, in the fields of HERMANEUTICS and EXEGESIS there are RULES that govern how we are to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH!

 

One of these RULES is to insure that any Native Language Translation is saying the same thing as the Original Language Texts!  Before we even consider the GRAMMAR and SYNTAX of the Language, we need to first consider the VOCABULARY!  One word can have several different meanings, any, or all of which might apply!  However, to choose the wrong ALTERNATE MEANING could totally destroy the INTENT of what God is trying to say!

 

 As I sought to determine the precise meaning of SALVATION as it is used in the GREEK texts I was accused of PLAYING SEMANTICS!

 

 I denied the accuauation of SEMANTICS but Soldier 4 Christ reaffirmed it with the following reply,

 

 

 Re: Acts 2:38 SALVATION
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 11:38:44 AM »   



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Hugh-MANN on March 27, 2012, 10:04:56 PM

Show Me!  Teach Me!  Give me Scripture that says, Being Born Again IS Salvation, and Salvation IS being Born Again.

1. I don't play Semantics


Semantics has to do with the "meanings of words" and this is what you have been doing throughout your posts in this thread, the taking of different meanings of words from the original languages and trying to make them fit into your theology.

1. Why do people need to be saved? Saved from what?

2. What happens when a person is saved?

To answer these questions will also answer how "Being Born Again IS Salvation, and Salvation IS being Born Again". That answer is also in your own posts here with the very scripture that you have posted.

QUOTE

 

Semantics has to do with the "meanings of words" and this is what you have been doing throughout your posts in this thread, the taking of different meanings of words from the original languages and trying to make them fit into your theology.
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More than just playing SEMANTICS, what you are accusing me of is called WRESTING THE SCRIPTURES!

 

2 Peter 3:15-16 (King James Version)


And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


 



Go back and re-read reply # 1  I believe that it adequately describes my motivation for what you are calling "SEMANTICS!"

I do not seek to wrest the Scriptures and make them fit my own Theology, rather, I encourage everyone to Read the WORD for themselves and to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH, and then to WALK IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH

Hi everybody,

I am not sure what just happened?  It seems that my last reply posted itself automatically, and prematurely, so let me conclude,


I do not seek to wrest the Scriptures and make them fit my own Theology, rather, I encourage everyone to Read the WORD for themselves and to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH, and then to WALK IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH as it is revealed unto them!



More to come later,

Have a Nice Day!

Brother Hugh

[/b]

In the ongoing discussion concerning SALVATION and BEING BORN AGAIN Pastor Roger asks,

 

QUOTE

 

 1. Why do people need to be saved? Saved from what?


 

Romans 3:23 (King James Version)


Romans 6:23 (King James Version)



WE NEED TO BE SAVED BECAUSE WE ARE INCAPABLE OF SAVING OURSELVES!



 Saved from what?

 

[/b]

 

Matthew 1:20-22 (King James Version)


 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


 QUOTE

2. What happens when a person is saved?


I still maintain that Deliverance is the primary intended meaning for Salvation!  So I will answer accordingly!

 Colossians 1:13



[/color]
 

 

Notice that there are two separate phases here! 

 

1.  being delivered  from (out of) the power of darkness,


2.. being translated into the kingdom of his dear Son:

 

The time interval between 1 & 2 can be near instantaneous, or it can drag out for many years (Depending upon the circumstances)!

 

We have previously discussed the 40 years that the Israelites wandered in the Wilderness, so we won't repeat that, but it is a valid illustration!

 
 Luke 11:24-26 (King James Version)


When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

[/color]

 


 
Now let me ask a question,

 
"What is it that must be saved?"

 
The vast majority of professing believers would respond that it is the SOUL which must be SAVED!"

 

Consider,

 1 Thessalonians 5:23 (King James Version)


And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


CONCLUSION

 [/color]

 

What God does for us is not just a singular one time event!   There are a multitude of different events, spread out over a lifetime, that make up THE TOTAL PACKAGE that God has for each of us!

 Let me repeat,


 Many of the divisions within the Church are centered on the requirements for Salvation! This is due, in part, because of the meaning of the word! Many Opinions on the subject have been expressed, and many Doctrines have been formulated based upon man's understanding of the word Salvation as it used in their Native Translations, without giving heed to the meaning of the word as it was delivered in the Original Language texts! Because of this, many people are using the word Save, or Salvation to express concepts that are not entirely accurate! Even though the whole world referred to a cow as a frog, cows would still be cows, and frogs would still be frogs!

As we seek to Rightly Divide the Word of Truth, we must remember that one word in the Hebrew, or Greek Languages, may have several different interpretations, any, or all of which may apply! The reverse is also true! One word in English, may have several different renderings in Hebrew or Greek!

As we consider all that God has for us, many events may seem to happen simultaneously, or in such rapid succession that they seem simultaneous! This is one of the reasons that the word for salvation is so misused!

Too often people will try to make the Scriptures conform to their own personal experience, (or lack thereof), rather than making their personal experience conform to the Scriptures! Some people will try to lump a multitude of events under one label!


Each person's experience is unique! God has allowed some flexibility because of this. One person may experience these events in a different order of succession from someone else! I believe that it is vitally important that every believer receive all that God has for them!

If we attempt to lump all these events into one container, and call that container Salvation, someone might not receive all that God has for them, yet be deceived into believing that they had! We should not seek to oversimplify, nor overcomplicate the Gospel! However to avoid Doctrinal Errors, it is essential that we call each event by it's proper name, and only by it's proper name! It is not my place to sit in judgement over another person's Salvation experience! They were there when it happened, they know exactly what happened to them, however they might not have experienced all that God has made available, and be lulled into a false sense of security, by someone else's attempt to oversimplify the Gospel!



If we look at THE TOTAL PACKAGE and call it GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION, everybody gets the message, but if we called it GOD'S PLAN OF ATONEMENT, it is still the same message! 

 

  but if we called it GOD'S PLAN OF REDEMPTION, it is still the same message! 

 

  but if we called it GOD'S PLAN OF RESTORATION, it is still the same message! 

 

 but if we called it GOD'S PLAN OF RECONCILLIATION  it is still the same message! 

 

 but if we called it GOD'S PLAN OF SPIRITUAL REGENERATION, it is still the same message! 

 

Let me repeat,

 

 If we attempt to lump all these events into one container, and call that container Salvation, someone might not receive all that God has for them, yet be deceived into believing that they had! We should not seek to oversimplify, nor overcomplicate the Gospel! However to avoid Doctrinal Errors, it is essential that we call each event by it's proper name, and only by it's proper name! It is not my place to sit in judgement over another person's Salvation experience! They were there when it happened, they know exactly what happened to them, however they might not have experienced all that God has made available, and be lulled into a false sense of security, by someone else's attempt to oversimplify the Gospel!



Consider,

 

BUBBA"S BACKWOODS BIBLE DICTIONARY

 

SALVATION

 

Traditionally, anything by which our sins are forgiven, or by which the penalty for our sins is nullified!

 

This in turn places us on the Path to GLORY!

 

 

 Matthew 15:1-9 (King James Version)


Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


 Jesus had nothing good to say concerning the TRADITIONS of men, yet today there are a multitude of manmade traditions which are making the commandment of God of none effect!

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HAVE A NICE DAY!



HUGH

Brother Tom,

Thank you for your response!

I previously asked for Scriptures to show that

Quote

Salvation and being Born Again are one and the same thing. There is no Salvation without being Born Again, and being Born Again is Salvation.



Since then, both Pastor Roger and you have submitted many Scriptures relative to Salvation, and to being Born Again,  but only one passage even comes close to saying that Salvation and being Born Again are one and the same thing!



Titus 3:5-7 (King James Version)
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7 (American Standard Version)
not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7 (Bible In Basic English)
 Not by works of righteousness which we did ourselves, but in the measure of his mercy, he gave us salvation, through the washing of the new birth and the giving of new life in the Holy Spirit, 6 Which he gave us freely through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 So that, having been given righteousness through grace, we might have a part in the heritage, the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7 (Centenary Translation of the New Testament)
 He saved us, not because of any deeds that we had done in righteousness, But because of his own pity for us. He saved us by that washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit 6 which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 In order that being justified by his grace, We might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:4-7 (Darby's Translation)
But when the kindness and love to man of our Saviour God appeared, 5 not on the principle of works which [have been done] in righteousness which we had done, but according to his own mercy he saved us through [the] washing of regeneration and renewal of [the] Holy Spirit, 6 which he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 that, having been justified by his grace, we should become heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7 (English Standard Version)
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:4-7 (God's Word)
However, when God our Savior made his kindness and love for humanity appear, 5 he saved us, but not because of anything we had done to gain his approval. Instead, because of his mercy he saved us through the washing in which the Holy Spirit gives us new birth and renewal. 6 God poured a generous amount of the Spirit on us through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 As a result, God in his kindness has given us his approval and we have become heirs who have the confidence that we have everlasting life.

Titus 3:5-7 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit. 6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7 (Mace New Testament)
he saved us not in consideration of any virtuous actions which we had done, but out of his meer mercy, by the baptism of regeneration, he form'd us anew, by the plentiful effusion of the holy spirit, thro' Jesus Christ our saviour: 6 7 that being justified by his favour, we should have the inheritance of eternal life, according to our hopes.


Titus 3:5-7 (New King James Version)
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:5-7 (New Living Translation, Second Edition)
 he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit. 6 He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 Because of his grace he declared us righteous and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life.”

Titus 3:5-7 (Wesley New Testament)
Not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to his own mercy he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. 6 Which he poured forth richly upon us, 7 through Jesus Christ our Saviour, That, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs, according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:4-7 (Young's Literal Translation)
and when the kindness and the love to men of God our Saviour did appear 5 (not by works that are in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 which He poured upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour, 7 that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during.

Titus 3:5-7 (Moffatt's New Testament)
 and he saved us, not for anything we had done but from his own pity for us, by the water that means regeneration and renewal under the holy Spirit 6 which he poured upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, 7 that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs to the hope of life eternal."

Titus 3:4-7 (Weymouth New Testament)
But when the goodness of God our Saviour, and His love to man, dawned upon us, not in consequence of things which we, 5 as righteous men, had done, but as the result of His own mercy He saved us by means of the bath of regeneration and the renewal of our natures by the Holy Spirit, 6 which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 in order that having been declared righteous through His grace we might become heirs to the Life of the Ages in fulfilment of our hopes.

NOTE!

Seeking to cross reference the Washing of Regeneration produced these additional Scriptures


Ephesians 5:25-27 (King James Version)


Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 Peter 3:18-22 (King James Version)


For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us [/color](not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

DISCUSSION

by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;






Notice the slight variations between each of the various Translations!




Also, various commentaries address this issue, but we must remember that Commentaries are not Scripture, and do not have the same degree of authority as the Scriptures!



CONSIDER

THE EPISTLE OF PAUL TO TITUS

Commentary by A. R. FAUSSETT

A Commentary: Critical, Experimental, and Practical on the Old and New Testaments.



Titus 3:5-6

by -- Greek, "through"; by means of.

the washing -- rather, "the laver," that is, the baptismal font.

 
of regeneration -- designed to be the visible instrument of regeneration. "The apostles are wont to draw an argument from the sacraments to prove the thing therein signified, because it ought to be a recognized principle among the godly, that God does not mark us with empty signs. but by His power inwardly makes good what He demonstrates by the outward sign. Wherefore baptism is congruously and truly called the laver of regeneration. We must connect the sign and thing signified, so as not to make the sign empty and ineffectual; and yet not, for the sake of honoring the sign, to detract from the Holy Spirit what is peculiarly His" [CALVIN], (1Pe 3:21). Adult candidates for baptism are presupposed to have had repentance and faith (for Paul often assumes in faith and charity that those addressed are what they profess to be, though in fact some of them were not so, 1Co 6:11), in which case baptism would be the visible "laver or regeneration" to them, "faith being thereby confirmed, and grace increased, by virtue of prayer to God" [Article XXVII, Church of England]. Infants are charitably presumed to have received a grace in connection with their Christian descent, in answer to the believing prayers of their parents or guardians presenting them for baptism, which grace is visibly sealed and increased by baptism, "the laver of regeneration." They are presumed to be then regenerated, until years of developed consciousness prove whether they have been actually so or not. "Born of (from) water and (no 'of' in Greek) the Spirit." The Word is the remote and anterior instrument of the new birth; Baptism, the proximate instrument. The Word, the instrument to the individual; Baptism, in relation to the Society of Christians. The laver of cleansing stood outside the door of the tabernacle, wherein the priest had to wash before entering the Holy Place; so we must wash in the laver of regeneration before we can enter the Church, whose members are "a royal priesthood." "Baptism by the Spirit" (whereof water baptism is the designed accompanying seal) makes the difference between Christian baptism and that of John. As Paul presupposes the outward Church is the visible community of the redeemed, so he speaks of baptism on the supposition that it answers to its idea; that all that is inward belonging to its completeness accompanied the outward. Hence he here asserts of outward baptism whatever is involved in the believing appropriation of the divine facts which it symbolizes, whatever is realized when baptism fully corresponds to its original design. So 3:27; language holding good only of those in whom the inward living communion and outward baptism coalesce. "Saved us" applies fully to those truly regenerate alone; in a general sense it may include many who, though put within reach of salvation, shall not finally be saved. "Regeneration" occurs only once more in New Testament, Mt 19:28, that is, the new birth of the heaven and earth at Christ's second coming to renew all material things, the human body included, when the creature, now travailing in labor-throes to the birth, shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Regeneration, which now begins in the believer's soul, shall then be extended to his body, and thence to all creation.

 and renewing -- not "the laver ('washing') of renewing," but "and BY the renewing," &c. following "saved us." To make "renewing of the Holy Ghost" follow "the laver" would destroy the balance of the clauses of the sentence, and would make baptism the seal, not only of regeneration, but also of the subsequent process of progressive sanctification ("renewing of the Holy Ghost"). Regeneration is a thing once for all done; renewing is a process daily proceeding. As "the washing," or "laver," is connected with "regeneration," so the "renewing of the Holy Ghost" is connected with "shed on us abundantly" (Tit 3:6).

Notes for Verse 6

Verse 6. Which -- the Holy Ghost.

 he shed -- Greek, "poured out"; not only on the Church in general at Pentecost, but also "on us" individually. This pouring out of the Spirit comprehends the grace received before, in, and subsequently to, baptism.

abundantly -- Greek, "richly" (Col 3:16).

 through Jesus Christ -- the channel and Mediator of the gift of the Holy Ghost.
our Saviour -- immediately; as the Father is mediately "our Saviour." The Father is the author of our salvation and saves us by Jesus Christ.

Barnes’ Notes On The New Testament

by

Albert Barnes

Notes on the New Testament Explanatory and Practical.



Titus 3:5-6


He saved us. That is, he began that salvation in us which is to be completed in heaven. A, man who is already renewed and pardoned may be spoken of as saved-for

 

(1.) the work of salvation is begun, and

 

(2.) when begun it will certainly be completed. Philippians 1:6.

 

By the washing of regeneration. In order to a correct understanding of this important passage, it is necessary to ascertain whether the phrase here used refers to baptism, and whether anything different is intended by it from what is meant by the succeeding phrase-" renewing of the Holy Ghost."-The word rendered washing (λουτρον) occurs in the New Testament only in this place and in Ephesians 5:26, where also it is rendered washing-" That he might sanctify and cleanse it [the church] with the washing of water by the word." The word properly means a bath; then water.for bathing; then the act of bathing, washing, ablution. Passow and Robinson. It is used by Homer to denote a warm or cold bath; then a washing away, and is thus applied to the drink-offerings in sacrifice, which were supposed to purify or wash away sin. Passow. The word here does not mean laver, or the vessel for washing in, which would be expressed by λουτηρ, louter; and this word cannot be properly applied to the baptismal font. The word in itself would naturally be understood as referring to baptism, (comp. Acts 22:16,) which was regarded as the emblem of washing away sins, or of cleansing from them. I say it was the emblem, not the means of purifying the soul from sin. If this be the allusion, and it seems probable, then the phrase "washing of regeneration" would mean "that outward washing or baptism which is the emblem of regeneration," and which is appointed as one of the ordinances connected with salvation. Mark 16:16. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." It is not affirmed in his phrase that baptism is the means of regeneration; or that grace is necessarily conveyed by it; and still less that baptism is regeneration, for no one of these is a necessary interpretation of the passage, and should not be assumed to be the true one. The full force of the language will be met by the supposition that it means that baptism is the emblem or symbol of regeneration, and, if this is the case, no one has a right to assume that the other is certainly the meaning. And that this is the meaning is further clear, because it is nowhere taught in the New Testament that baptism is regeneration, or that it is the means of regeneration. The word rendered regeneration (παλιγγενεσια, palingenesia) occurs in the New Testament only here and in Matthew 19:28,-"in the regeneration when the Son of man," etc. It means, properly, a new-birth, reproduction, or renewal. It would properly be applied to one who should be begotten again in this sense, that a new life was commenced in him in some way corresponding to his being made to live at first. To the proper idea of the word, it is essential that there should be connected the notion of the commencement of life in the man, so that he may be said to live anew; and as religion is in the Scriptures represented as life, it is properly applied to the beginning of that kind of life by which man may be said to live anew. This word, occurring only here and in Matthew 19:28, and there indubitably not referring to baptism, should not be here understood as referring to that, or be applied to that, for

 

(1.) that is not the proper meaning of the word;

 

(2.) there is no Scripture usage to sanction it;

 

(3.) the connexion here does not demand it;

 

(4.) the correlatives of the word (John 3:3,5,6,8, 1 Peter 1:3) are applied only to that great moral change which is produced by the Holy Ghost; and

 

(5.) it is a dangerous use of the word. Its use in this sense leaves the impression that the only change needful for man is that which is produced by being regularly baptized. On almost no point has so much injury been done in the church as by the application of the word regeneration to baptism. It affects the beginning of religion in the soul; and if a mistake is made there, it is one which must pervade all the views of piety.

 

And renewing of the Holy Ghost. This is an important clause, added by Paul apparently to save from the possibility of falling into error. If the former expression, "the washing of regeneration," had been left to stand by itself, it might have been supposed possibly that all the regeneration which would be needed would be that which would accompany baptism. But he avoids the possibility of this error, by saying that the "renewing of the Holy Ghost" is an indispensable part of that by which we are saved. It is necessary that this should exist in addition to that which is the mere emblem of it—the washing of regeneration—for without this the former would be unmeaning and unavailing. It is important to observe that the apostle by no means says that this always follows from the former, nor does he affirm that it ever follows from it-whatever may be tile truth on that point-but he asserts that this is that on which our salvation depends. The word rendered renewing (ἀνακαίνωσις—anakainosis) occurs only here and in Romans 12:2, where it is also rendered renewing. Compare Romans 12:2. The verb (ἀνακαινόω—anakainoo) occurs in 2 Corinthians 4:16, Colossians 3:19, in both which places it is rendered renewed, and the corresponding word, ἀνακαινίζω—anakainidzo, in Hebrews 6:6. The noun properly means making new again; a renewing; a renovation. Comp. H. Planck in Bib. Repos., i. 677. It is a word which is found only in the writings of Paul and in ecclesiastical Greek writers. It would be properly applied to such a change as the Holy Spirit produces in the soul, making one a new man; that is, a man new, so far as religion is concerned-new in his views, feelings, desires, hopes, plans, and purposes. He is so far different from what he was before, that it may be said he enters on a new life. Ephesians 4:23,24. The "renewing of the Holy Ghost" of course means that which the Holy Ghost produces, recognising the fact, everywhere taught in the Scriptures, that the Holy Spirit is the Author of the new creation. It cannot mean, as Koppe supposes, the renewing of the mind itself, or producing a holy spirit in the soul.



JOHN WESLEY'S NOTES ON THE WHOLE BIBLE

Explanatory Notes upon the New Testament.


Titus 3:5-6



Notes for Verse 5

Verse 5. Not by works - In this important passage the apostle presents us with a delightful view of our redemption. Herein we have,

 

1. The cause of it; not our works or righteousness, but "the kindness and love of God our Savior."

 

2. The effects; which are,

 

(1.) Justification; "being justified," pardoned and accepted through the alone merits of Christ, not from any desert in us, but according to his own mercy, "by his grace," his free, unmerited goodness.

 

(2.) Sanctification, expressed by the laver of regeneration, (that is, baptism, the thing signified, as well as the outward sign,) and the renewal of the Holy Ghost; which purifies the soul, as water cleanses the body, and renews it in the whole image of God.

 

3. The consummation of all; - that we might become heirs of eternal life, and live now in the joyful hope of it.


This is a lot to digest all at once!

More to come later,


HAVE A NICE DAY


HUGH

Hugh-Mann
in Reply#11 on Mar 27 you posted a def. from American Heritage Dictionary using the words, (this is by memory, I don't know how to cut an paste,etc)...  "Christian Science... and Life, Truth, and Love... "
I suspect you are a Christian Scientist. I must applaud nChrist and Soldier4Christ for recognizing a game of semantics, they used Truth to recognize the false. Notice they used about one word for every thousand you typed?
I was born into a CS family(not dad, mom was a serious member, both deceased) and I rejected it at age 15. I would describe it as a trap within a trap. I have 3 "sister" siblings that are still trapped(had 4, 1 died) I'm a believer, was born again, it'll be 4 yrs. this Dec.
You know Herb Mann? Ever been to Hawaii? This may be it's a "small world" moment, with alot of water under the bridge. Praise God.-tc

Where is the written authority that baptism must be done preceded by announcing in whose authority the baptism is done? We have examples in scriptures of baptism being accomplished and it being shown by whose authority such is claimed.  Still where is it commanded that the example should be followed? It seems a legality made up by men.

ollie

Hugh-man,
I do not mean to offend, but.... maybe you should throw away all those other books and spend your time reading God's word.  Instead of writing lengthy posts that does not glorify.

grandma