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I'm thinking of developing a line of shirts--T and/or fleece--with either relevant slogans or bible verses on them.

In light of on-going current events, and onestarfisher's posts here, what should be the bent, slant or "intent" of these slogans or verses--direct, indirect, loving, judgemental, gospel??

Several I've thot of:

(slogan):  

Maybe in the OT homosexuals were called "dogs" for a reason?  (with a citation to the relevant bibel verse, which I haven't found yet).


(verse):  


"You are to distinguish between the holy and the common; and between the unclean and the clean..."  Leviticus 10:10


"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."  Leviticus 18:22




On the other side of the shirt, would be the business or company logo, which would be distinctive, and would also convey a distinct message...


I haven't decided yet which would go on which side, front or back.

"Here is a call for the endurance of the saint, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus"  Rev. 14:12



I'm thinking the logo will be something distinctive, like the cross, and poignant, like the cross.  And instantly recognizable.      And representative of current events, and maybe like representative of the general theme implied by the following:  

"Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse."  II Tim. 3:12

With THOSE quotes ya better put 'em on the INSIDE!!!  ;D

OK  :-X

Perhaps messages that would correct the misconceived image of true Christians as being "hypocrites". Followed by Godly actions of the person wearing it to show the message is not more misconceived hypocrisy.

You want to design a good shirt logo?

Forget anything which any group – regardless of how we may disagree with a lifestyle – may consider derogatory.

A great big cross on a contrasting background (which is clearly identifiable as Christian) says more that millions of words.  

You want the wearer to be a beacon – not a target, right?  ;D

Yep, Ollie, that's a good point...

and JudgeNot...yep...

I'm thinking about that, JUdgeNOt.  Thank you.

In the meantime, I found that passage:  Deut 23: 17-8

"There shall be no cult prostitute of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a cult prostitute of the sons of Israel.  You shall not bring the hire of a harlot, or the wages of a dog, into the house of the Lord your God in payment for any vow; for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God."  (Deut. 23:17-8)

This is in my RSV.  A footnote at the bottom, on the same page, translates "dog", as "sodomite".   I haven't checked the KJV yet.

The context is important.  It's a little long to quote on a garment.  Perhaps as just a reference.

Dude!  Now you're thinking!  (Or, as they say down home - you be thankin' now pardner!)

A big Cross on one side - then the book/chapter/verse on the other - make them look in the Word of God to find the Truth!  ;D

    Yep, thanks, JudgeNot...

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

I hope you don't mind 2 cents worth. I would suggest using the New Testament instead of the Old Testament to do away with the biggest cop-out for abominable behavior. Here's a few samples for you:

Romans 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Brother, do we need to get together and hire body guards for you?   ;)

An idea for a slogan:  REPENT AND SIN NO MORE!

Another one:  GAY WAS HAPPY - NOW IT'S SAD!

Another one (?):  STAND STRAIGHT FOR JESUS!

Another one:  GOD ACCEPTS NO ALTERNATIVES!

Love In Christ,
Tom

I have a feeling you have an anti-gay topic in mind; this doesn't quite fit, but I always thought it would look neat on a shirt...

The blade of a sword, which fades upward into the distance, and the hilt (pommel? handle?) is the top of a cross instead.

On the front:
Homosexual Marriage

On the back:
Jesus Wept

 :'(

Thank you, bep, willow, judgenot.


Hmmm.  You know what.  I just noticed the shirt ad on this webpage, upperright.  Never even noticed it before.


     ??? :-X

A...sign????

I notice they can make custom-made shirts for you.  So maybe that's the way to go.

I got the idea from onestarfisher, here.  S/he is using magic markers or paints from WalMarts, on her/his own shirts.  Lot cheaper that way.

But if you had one of the advertisers here do it, and bought from them, you'd b e helping support the website...

If you were going to choose just one verse, to either reference, or actually spell out, on a shirt, with your logo on the other side, what would that verse be??


Mine, so far, would be Romans 12:1

________________________________

Nope.  Scratch that.

I think what I'll do is offer only one quote.  And I'll let the folk here decide.

If you could pick one shirt, with one quote, what would that quote be?  And would it be the whole quote, or just the reference?

I think I'll do it that way.  And on the other side will be my logo, with company name in teensy letters underneath the logo.  I think I already know what the logo will be; and the name of the company.


So what should the shirt say?   If you had that one chance to communicate the Gospel, or some related challenge(such as what onestarfisher,here, is doing), what should it say?

Wow, I just found the thread....Yeah, shirts! You can go anywhere in them and they can't really throw you out - you're in your clothes, afterall.....

Most of the suggestions above, IMO, are too many words....it needs to be as few words as possible (like 3 or 4) so it can be big and read from farther away....not some tiny little polo type logo....I really like the suggestion "Jesus wept" above, coupled with something about gay marriage. That was just excellent...

I have also thought of these:
FORNICATION IS A SIN
PAGANISM IS HELL
ABORTION IS MURDER
EVOLUTION IS A LIE
THE JEWS DIDN'T KILL JESUS, OUR SINS DID
Etc.

Also, a friend saw or thought of a shirt with this on the front "What did Jesus ever do for me?" and on the back, Him hanging on the cross....

I mean, I don't think it's being judgemental to state a fact. Jesus did. He didn't gild the lilly. I'm the first to tell people that all sins are wrong in God's eyes and that I'm no better.
I did think of saying this about my HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN shirt - something like, "do you know what this says in hebrew? Jesus Loves You."

So far, I have had no problems wearing the shirt anywhere. Sometimes someone will call out "amen, sister!" I have found that non-christians like the shirt and have had a chance to witness to some about sin in general and our need for a saviour....No one has jumped me so far or been threatening. Even walked right into the public library past 2 cops with the shirt on.....that was fun ;-) But by and large, the most common response is a stare - people can't believe it. I heard one little girl of abou 8 asking her father if he'd seen my shirt...I'll bet they had quite a discussion. (well, they shouldn't be teaching them in schools that it's acceptable)

This one gay guy was pretty upset about my shirt when he waited on me in a store and asked me about it. I tried to give a mild and gentle answer and told him  I didn't think I was any better than he....and I gave him a tract. The following week I went back in there and he sure remembered me, but he was quite nice and I gave him something else to read.....about salvation, etc....

You could also park your car somewhere and drape your shirt on the windshield to use as a sign as people drive by.....

One thing I wanted to mention about the markers....I used a regular permanent one and also bought some for fabric. When I handwashed the shirt, it did run a little - don't know which marker it was, but the ones for fabric say they're washable....

You can also buy things in the office supply section where you can print something on your printer and iron it on. Or, you could buy plain stencil material and cut out your design with a special tool, (you could use tracing paper and carbon paper to trace the letters onto the stencil) then stencil the paint thru the stencil onto the shirt....or, if you can paint neatly, you can just draw your design on your shirt with a fabric pencil and paint it in....you can use craft paint but you have to mix a fabric medium with it....all of this in lieu of having to pay someone to print the t shirts.

Not to belabor a point, but I had also thougt of some shirts that said (in BIG letters) something like

THE KING IS COMING! (you could put on the back in smaller letters "where will He find you?" ) (or, "how will He find you?")

or

JESUS IS COMING!

or   HALLELUJAH !!
 THE KING IS COMING!!

or LIFT UP YOUR HEADS!
     JESUS IS COMING!

Well, anyway.

from Early57, on another thread:  

Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the City of David, A savior, Which is Christ the Lord  I like this for a shirt.  BUT, like onestar says, it'd be too long--at least, for distance.


Wow, thank you, onestarfisher....  This is some helpful info...

Some good ideas.  

you can just draw your design on your shirt with a fabric pencil and paint it in....you can use craft paint but you have to mix a fabric medium with it....all of this in lieu of having to pay someone to print the t shirts.

..very helpful...

I have also thought of these:
FORNICATION IS A SIN
PAGANISM IS HELL
ABORTION IS MURDER
EVOLUTION IS A LIE
THE JEWS DIDN'T KILL JESUS, OUR SINS DID
Etc.

Some good ones:  The question I'm asking myself is, why haven't I been doing this already, b4 homosexuality even became an issue.

Hmm.  Some good ideas.  "Paganism is Hell" is a real good one.  Hmmm.  That's where we're going--paganism.

Wow this is all a great idea.  In fact, I may not do it as a business.  Might do it just one shirt at a time.  For myself.
By hand...

Symphony, you posted this scripture "Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the City of David, A savior, Which is Christ the Lord "  which you said would be too long, but it wouldn't really. You could do it like this:

                     For unto you is born this day
                           in the City of David

                               a SAVIOR which is
                           CHRIST THE LORD

                                               Luke 2:11
I don't know how to do it here, but make the first 2 lines little and the words savior and Christ the Lord really big, and the scripture reference little......

I had thought of doing it as a business for a long time too, but always delayed because of complictions - don't know how to silk screen or don't have the money for someone else to do it, or nowhere to do messy work, don't know how to set up a web site, yada yada. If you remove the monetary idea from it and concentrate on the message, it's freeing. Because then you're strictly thinking evangelism. (and, isn't that what it should be??) I think if you do one shirt for yourself and walk around in it, you'll see how you feel about it. You could always do it as a business later if the Lord leads. Altho these kinds of messages don't seem to fly in the Christian bookstores....;-) I saw on the news that some people in SanFran had a HUGE banner - probably 20 ft wide and about 3 ft high, all professional looking. Guess what it said? HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN. (I do feel better now!)

Thank you, onestar.   You've got some really good ideas.   Yes, I see that Luke 2 there could work well.

I had thought of doing it as a business for a long time too, but always delayed because of complictions - don't know how to silk screen or don't have the money for someone else to do it, or nowhere to do messy work, don't know how to set up a web site, yada yada. If you remove the monetary idea from it and concentrate on the message, it's freeing

Yes, a little to think through.  I'm thinking through it, a little; not sure that the monetary aspect is necessarily a problem.  Even for just yourself, you're still spending money for it, if only a few bucks, plus your time.  Yes, definitely, it is a labor of love.   Mass producing such an idea is where it almost automatically gets risky--losing that genuniness, and it becoming commercial.

I'm thinking though, it might be possible to "commercialize" it with it still being graceful, elegant, tasteful, true(all the things that Jesus was).  Jesus said make for yourselves friends of unrighteous mammon.  Or, that is, for instance, we couldn't be using this computer tech'y 'cept for having some money to pay for it.

Maybe I'm thinking the "degree" of commercilism.  Or the "kind".

If something like this were made available tastefully, commercially, it could be "backed into" just gradually--sorta just the way you're doing it; just one step at a time; don't bite off more than you can chew.  

If the LOrd blesses you with fruit, maybe that fruit wil include people joining you from the very ones you're evangelizing??  So I don't think it's has to necessarily jeapordize your original "labor of love", if you have a careful understanding of costs, whether or not you want there to be any "margin"(profit) with which to pay your own personal expenses, or whether you want any income to only cover costs of just the project  itself--OR, if maybe you want to just limit it to being paid for out of income you receive from unrelated employment or other sources, like you're doing now.  

Maybe only with time a gradual understanding will emerge as what is best in any particular situation.

You've got some good ideas.  I'm like your slogans.  

I'm trying to think of a way it might be done tastefully, professionally.  But even then, as you point out, most Christians seem terrified of mentioning many of these references.  

In a way, the commercializm question might have it's own built-in protections.  Basically, the reason even pagans see through commercialism, is because, we all instinctively know what is true or not.  Commercilism is usually associated with fiction or falsity.  If what you're putting on the shirts, though, is true--can it really be commercial--even if you're getting paid for it?

Well, these are just a few thoughts...

"Got AIDS yet?"

This T-shirt was worn by a street preacher in Columbus, Ohio several years ago. He climbed up the flag pole, and removed the "gay flag" at the statehouse during the "gay" parade. He was promptly arrested.

Symphony, you won't be able to use that slogan.

Personally, I have found that the message should be short, and to the point.

"Remember the fireworks display at Sodom"

"Homosexuality is an abomination"

"Homosexuality is sin"

"God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve"

"Abortion is murder"

"Judgement is at the doors"

"Eternity? Smoking or non-smoking?"

"Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand"

"Which part of "thou shall not" do you not understand?"

Psalms 119

Thank you, Psalm.  Yes, some of those I like okay.   Some I've seen.  A few I might pass over.

I don't think I want to be sarcastic or any hint of malice; I think the message of the gospel, as much as possible--the goodness of the gospel, and maintaining that attitude.


Hellfire, yes; I don't want to give the impression I'm indulging the hellfire, though--that is, retributive.  There's going to be more than enough of that going around.

I realize the gays may "string me up", I guess.  

Jesus said, "...I came not to condemn the world..."  John 3:17

I dont think the gays will string you up, unless you were at a rally or something - I haven't been at one yet. I think the reason they don't try to string you up is because they aren't accustomed to people taking a stand just out in public - it's usually at a parade or outside a courthouse.  

Psalm 119, some really good ideas. Afterall, the 10 Commandments were short too.

Symphony wrote "If the LOrd blesses you with fruit, maybe that fruit wil include people joining you from the very ones you're evangelizing??  So I don't think it's has to necessarily jeapordize your original "labor of love", if you have a careful understanding of costs, whether or not you want there to be any "margin"(profit) with which to pay your own personal expenses, or whether you want any income to only cover costs of just the project  itself--OR, if maybe you want to just limit it to being paid for out of income you receive from unrelated employment or other sources, like you're doing now. "

Yes, and I'm not trying to give the impression that I'm attempting to be a purist over it. There's nothing wrong with a business. I think where I was coming from is this: before, when I had in my mind to start a business, t shirts and all, that was where my head was at, and then thinking what would sell. If you approach it the other way, as in, forget the monetary aspect, what needs to be said, what do I need to say? then it's that first. What needs to be said needs to come before what would sell - and once you're saying what needs to be said, you can always sell a t shirt about it. Whereas if you decide what will sell, and it doesn't, then you're changing what you say to accommodate what will sell. If you say what needs to be said, and then sell it, if it doesn't sell, so what? You haven't compromised anything. Make sense?? I only mentioned some of the slogans because I don't want to "hog" ideas. Like make everyone wait until I have a line of t shirts to share the message or slogan. It needs to be said now, not when I get it together. I'm sure I will wind up doing some of the slogans, but in the meantime, magic markers (the kind for fabric) and paint work just fine. These things need to be said.  

So true.  So, so true.  You are echoing our prophets - both OT and NT.  Will we have the courage to say what needs to be said?  

I am guilty of not having the courage at the appropriate time.  May Jesus guide me in the future. Amen.

JN

"Will we have the courage to say what needs to be said? "
 
I really believe that's the key. It seems like there's two approaches - there's the preaching approach, whether on shirt or with voice (but when you wear a shirt, you feel bolder to witness, I've noticed. One guy said he liked my shirt and we got to talking - he wasn't a Christian and I was able to swing right into all sins are the same and willl keep us from heaven and why we need Jesus, and he took a tract as well ) - and then there's the one on one type of thing, where of course you aren't shoving a sign in their face, you are being loving and reasoning with just them about sin.

I'm in the process of reading how Paul did it, what he said (in terms of public preaching), because he was sent to the gentiles. I want to see the elements of what he said and convert it to modern day issues.

Yes, very good point.

onestar:  Yes, and I'm not trying to give the impression that I'm attempting to be a purist over it. There's nothing wrong with a business. I think where I was coming from is this: before, when I had in my mind to start a business, t shirts and all, that was where my head was at, and then thinking what would sell. If you approach it the other way, as in, forget the monetary aspect, what needs to be said, what do I need to say? then it's that first. What needs to be said needs to come before what would sell - and once you're saying what needs to be said, you can always sell a t shirt about it. Whereas if you decide what will sell, and it doesn't, then you're changing what you say to accommodate what will sell. If you say what needs to be said, and then sell it, if it doesn't sell, so what? You haven't compromised anything. Make sense?? I only mentioned some of the slogans because I don't want to "hog" ideas. Like make everyone wait until I have a line of t shirts to share the message or slogan. It needs to be said now, not when I get it together. I'm sure I will wind up doing some of the slogans, but in the meantime, magic markers (the kind for fabric) and paint work just fine. These things need to be said.  

Well thank you for sharing this.  

I think you've just defined "commercialism".

Yes, I've been tempted by the overall "what will sell" idea--as opposed to what needs to be said.

Yes, as I read the few slogans you listed there, I was struck by how 1) I"d never seen anything commercial quite like that and 2) several of them suggested the writer had put a little thot into them(that is, utilizing not just direct impact, but  inuendo and implication...  like in "Paganism is Hell"(most Americans don't think of ourselves as "pagans")--it's actually a very clever phrase--a variation of Gen. Sherman's "War is hell" slogan from the Civil War--but by changing one word you given it whole new meaning).

"What needs to be said..."

Yes, I want to do a Paganism is Hell and wear it and see the response...should be interesting. I had originally gotten the thought as "Paganists go to hell" which is true because they aren't Christian.....but then Paganism is hell came to me, because it means the same thing but can be taken two ways.....

I think paganism is really satanism in disguise - it follows the same tenants of satanism, with the air, earth, fire and water - they just don't tell you who the spirit part is, they leave that "open". I went to a new vet with my cat and in walks this woman with a huge pentagram around her neck. I thought she was a tech but she was the VET. I had to (politely) tell her to stop examining my cat mid-exam, and then she practically got into a shouting match with me over her pentagram. Well, I wasn't shouting, but she was bordering on it. Wow.

So you didn't want her examining your cat?    ???


Yes, I like the Paganism is Hell slogan because somewhat ambiguous, but nails where we're headed, and it's not really "attacking".  Few people really identify with paganism--even atheists, I think.  But it still gets a very critical point across.

(http://www.gifs.net/animate/cat2.gif)

1) The pagan vet: she breezed into the exam room and "something" came with her - I can't explain it, but I felt the way I always do when in the presence of darkness, and that's what it felt like.

Her pentagram was huge, and like, in your face. I was feeling very uncomfortable as she began her examination. I felt like it was a "stance" issue - it was being shoved in my face - I could "bow" to it, or not. I asked her about her "gram" and she said, oh, it's paganism, it means blah blah blah. I said, I know full well what it means, it's a symbol of darkness. She got very nasty at that point and started arguing with me.

2) T shirts. What else is there to do? It does no good for Christians to try to change things legally - I mean, go ahead and try, but we're losing. (not eternally, just now) They will never overturn abortion, and I think it's just a matter of time before gay marriage is the norm in this country. Protest all you want to, it won't do any good.

so, why not be a beacon for truth and a billboard? just state the facts - on your clothing. the world wont' accept it anyway, but it is a stand. And for some reason, taking a stand really matters to me.

And, there is preaching. More of us should be standing on street corners or somewhere (not where no one can hear you with 6 lanes of traffic rushing by) - more of us should be on street corners or sidewalks preaching the gospel. (it's the foolishness of preaching, remember, not the movies or "lifestyle" evangelism) I'm not there yet, because I have fear, but the Lord keeps pulling me in that direction. Some libraries (at least here) have "free speech zones" outside the door. (altho I thought speech was still free everywhere here!)

Wow, the vet, it's cool that you challenged.  Hmmm.  

I wonder what becomes of any "unwanted" stray cats... ::) :-X


Yep, every opportunity we get, to say or do something.  Shirts are perfect..

I guess if I go out, I might as well go out with a bang.

I sent you a message, on one business possibility, onestar--or, that is, one way I was thinking of, of looking at it.

And you're sure definitely right--the paganism isn't going away.  Just today, now, a NY town mayor, 26 years old, issuing marriage licenses to several dozen gay couples....

But I did hear also that CA's Atty Gen'l apparently is beginning to come down on San Francisco's mayor.

I'm thinking of a shirt that says, on the front,

HOMOSE
XUALITY
IS A SIN.
    :-X



Exactly like that.  No hyphen. Maybe do it on an iron-on transfer using computer.


First, I'll probably only wear it into places I wouldn't normally go otherwise, just in case I get chased out, I won't need to go back in there anyway.

It'd be great to wear on out-of-town trips.  Sometimes I have to go to neighboring towns.   Maybe to their Wal-Mart.

Could you get arrested for it?   Hmmmm.   And, I wonder if it won't be "Christians" who will be doing the arresting.

On the back, another iron on, but in flowing script:

  "Romans 12:1"

I LOVE IT! Boy, that is excellent. Why didn't I think of that??  ;D It's perfect. No, you won't get chased out of anywhere. Are they chasing people out who are wearing shirts dissing the Lord or calling him foul names , or shirts with big swear words on them? They aren't here. You go, guy!

ps you can buy transfers for light shirts and they have some for dark shirts too.

I don't think you can get arrested for it, at least not as long as speech is still legal. I walked right past two cops on duty inside the entrance to the public library in my shirt. (I live in a town where we have to have things like that!)

I'm experimenting a bit with this slogan idea.  This may take me a little while.

HOMOSE
XUALITY
IS A SIN.
  :-X

I'm having trouble transfering or enlarging this sufficiently in MS Word, or maybe Publisher?   I dunno.


And, an iron-on is what, 81/2 X 11, so I'm wanting it to "fill" that page to the very edge, ideally?  

I'm sure you'll figure it out! I'm not that literate on the computer.......

Overall I think T-shirts are a wonderful idea... what is as equally important is the behavior/actions of the individuals wearing the shirts... I believe that it is entirely possible to do more harm than good if a person is labeled as being "Christian" but do not conduct themselves in a manner pleasing toward God.  Do people really run to wal-mart and make purchases because they see an off duty employee wearing a wal-mart vest??? Possibly...   My friends in the business industry frequently tell me that "word of mouth advertisement is the best advertisement".  Producing T-shirts or other products can be a costly endeavor and in the end our time may be better spent showing others Christ through the way in which we live our life, and even doing a little "word of mouth" advertisement...

Thank you, tony.  Yep, onestar, I'm working through it.  I've got some design options finally worked out on MS Word; just don't know yet how to display them here, in this software.  I'd like to to get people's opinion here, on one's they might like best.  Maybe I could advertise(paid) them here at CU.   Any actual production would take me some time, though. I may want to copyright, or trademark it--that is, the design of where or how to place the image(not the text) I'm thinking about.  That would be some legal work, which would mean more time.  


Those are excellent points, tony.  Yes, the manner in which we carry a message is certainly as important as the message itself.

I'm not sure I can recommend the shirt(s) for every situation, or for everyone.  I want to stir clear of the hate-mongers, of course.  So far, though, I'm thinking this, if executed carefully, may be just the ticket.  

And, wearing something like this--that is, something that specifically speaks of "sin"-- will force me, likewise, to look at myself.  I'll have to.  Because I'm going to be in trouble with so many people, already, for simply wearing it.

"Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same thought, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin..."  (I Peter 4:1).

Wearing the shirt has a built-in duplicity to it.  It may, or will, cause me to suffer, which means it's more likely to clean sin out of my life, PLUS it calls a simple spade a spade(homosexuality really IS a sin), PLUS, it also can easily segue into the Gospel message--the good news!!  It'll work as a double-edged, or actually, a triple-edged sword, cutting at least three ways--for them, for me, and for the Gospel.

 
   

Yep, going around in the shirt is definitely an interesting experience. It's quite intense, actually - I haven't been out in mine for awhile, busy with other things. You really have to get your mindset on right when you go out in the shirt - it isn't just, "oh, I think I'll wear this today,"

I LOVE IT

HOMOSE
XUALITY
IS A SIN.

 How much do you want for one of them?

I'll probably make a special offer to you, Crusader.


    ;D

KOOL ;)

I'm looking into this, Crusader.   :)

GRRRRRRRRRREAT

I'm liking the "Paganism is Hell" shirt idea.

I just heard a radio program, by a Lutheran, Tom Baker(?), that their seminary graduates are increasingly secular based, and that their ordination of women, as ministers, is a setup to bring in the ordination of lesbian ministers--or what he was generally terming as "neo-paganism".

So we see actually, the church, in it's various aspects, actually at the vanguard of ushering in new paganism.

Wholesale paganism, with the "church" in the lead, is exactly where we are heading.

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

It's pretty disgusting to see how evil is multiplying by the second. I give thanks that I have a small and plain Bible Teaching church. If it closes or turns to the devil, groups can gather beneath a tree to read our Bibles.

Brother, I really don't think we'll be in this evil world that much longer. YOU KNOW - the devil is winning right now, and the Holy Bible clearly states he will. I think it's wrong for Christians to let the devil make easy progress as long as God leaves us here to stub his toe and kick him in the shins.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

Now, ain't that the truth!  :D

Here's an article about someone who made a t shirt that says Homosexuality is Sin and wore it to high school.....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38160

Hmmm, I'll take a look at this.  Thank you, onestarfisher.

Hmm.  Okay.   Well, this is going to get a bit technical, but...

...the principal flagged Mark on the point of gender discrimination.  Agreed, that's a real reach, a stretch, since homosexuals are not their own seperate gender(quite the contrary--even they would have to argue, unless, of course, they are making themselves into a separate sex...).

On the other hand, a student is making a definite statement about something the school is effectively orchestrating.  Technically, I'm not sure a school has to tolerate that.

Arguablly, too, they could get the student for promoting a religion??

Obviously, these are all technicalities that have always beens there, in our public school, but only surface becuase of this climate today in which we find ourselves.

Still, I think there are ways around this.  There are some areas I wouldn't wear such a t-shirt.  I still think there are things we can do, though.

And I"m still looking forward to doing this t-shirt--either this one, or Paganism is Hell, or more likely both, and others...

Lord willing... ;)

Technically, at least in my school, no. My school has no policy on someone promoting a religion. I often see kids wearing shirts that have something written on them about Jesus or God, and I have never heard of anyone suspended over that,

I understand the school's reaction, do I think it's right, no, but I can see why they did it. He was doing something that could possibly hurt other children in the school. Even though often times it goes un noticed by other groups.

-HH

My t shirt wound up on TV today (with me in it) !

They had on the news last night how a busload of "Christian" homosexuals were going to make the rounds of the Justice Courts in the area today to try to get marriage licenses - even tho they knew they'd fail because it's illegal here.

The TV crews were covering it at various locations. I showed up at one location outside the court building in my T shirt (HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN) It turns out I was the only protestor at any of the locations. (that is a sad commentary on the church!) Because of this, tho (being the only one there), the TV crew and other people wanted to interview me, and I wound up on the noon news and again at 5. Maybe 10 tonight also, we'll see. It was the Lord, it surely wasn't me. They only show about a line or two, but it's better than nothing. I think if you go to KPHO online you can see it by clicking on a link or two. I'm the big round person in the T shirt.

I want to encourage everyone in the body to speak up. Don't be silent. Who was it that said once, Life is 99% just showing up? Don't let this issue go the way of the others, into complacency. If you go, they might interview you and you can speak up for God and what's right - no matter what the issue! I sure didn't expect this door to open - and all I did was make my feet go in that direction. The Lord did the rest.  Oh, they also had 2 "Christian" pastors with them, complete with clerical collars, because they are all "getting married" at some resort tomorrow. I had a chance to rebuke the pastors and call them false shepherds or ravenous wolves or something, I dont' recall.

Basically, I just read from the Bible (Ro 1:18 and beyond). But the Lord had my voice go really loud - I didn't think I had it in me, and I don't! It surprised me as much as anyone. At that point, the whole bus got off and linked arms and began to sing "Jesus Loves Me".

Oklahoma Howdy to OneStarFisher,

AMEN!!! I understand what you mean when you say that "The Lord did the rest". That bus load of folks were all lost, and their so-called pastors with them were ministers of the devil. I don't see anything in your account about any trouble of any kind for you, so God took care of you completely. I love to hear stories about Christians standing up for Jesus, even if there is some sort of problem the Christians must deal with later. Maybe God intended for you to stand there alone. I think that I would say that you heard, you obeyed, and God's will was done.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thanks, Blackeyed. Glory to God!

The t shirt showed up here, too (radio website with article) http://www.ktar.com/news/story.aspx?id=27382 Praise the Name of JESUS!!!

Wow, what a testimony, onestar.  Thank you.   :)

From the article:
They should have given a credit to Jesus and the T-shirt wearer!  :)

None of the other people there were protestors?  I watched the video clip, but it was hard to tell.

That's terrible.  It was announced the night before, so you knew about it, and that means countless others would have known about it, but you were the only one who showed up to protest.   ::)

And ministers preparing to marry them.   Hmm.  I wonder what they're saying--in the shadows.

Thank you for doing that, onestar, and letting us know!  Nice job.

Perfect t-shirt.

When they all got off the bus and sang, "Jesus Loves Me", onestar, what did they mean by that?

In defiance, of you,?  Or to mock you, I guess?

Hi, I think they got off the bus to try to drown me out, because I was the only one saying anything. It kinda backfired, tho, because the reporters just waited until the people got back on the bus to come and ask questions.

No, no other protestors were there.

Oh my gosh! I just checked World Net Daily, and the AP article made it there! They get over a million hits a day or something like that - and the article has the wording of the t shirt, HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN. Hallelujah! Praise the Lord! He has done this - it's incredible. People need to hear that it IS A SIN......

see this link http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0515marriagebus15.html

It has a picture of someone wearing a pro-gay t shirt.

Yes, I see that picture now.  But I can't tell all of what the shirt says, tho it seems obvious it's pro gay.

I suppose we'll see more of them, tho it hardly seems necessary.  'Looks like pretty much everybody is supporting them, even the Christians.

From the AZ Republic:

 "There were no anti-gay protesters at any of the court facilities, although one woman came to the East Mesa Justice Court, Bible in hand, to pray for the marriage applicants, for better or for worse."

I suppose that was you, huh, onestar.  Thank you for doing that.  

But the only one.   >:(

In a nation where we have freedom of expression, and the Christian community is silent.  

Perhaps we deserve to be styled as a "ghetto"(a reference recently in U.S. News magazine, mentioned separately in my post under "Krystallnacht", under Prophecy).

But one of the pictures in the Massachusetts article, at WND, the two gay men there do look formidable--every bit the picture of the portrayal in John Huston's epic film, "The Bible", when the angels go in to examine Sodom.  They look just like the portrayal there.

This isn't going to be easy.

They are going to be very, very mean.

I've got to get cookin', and ready to die.

I'll need to go look at the sources you mentioned.....

Why do you say ready to die? Do you worry you will lose your job or something? You can always go to another town to protest. Somewhere where no one knows you. Or, you could do the shirt you were thinking, where it was all one word, which gives you a little get away time. Or, even just the letters, HIAS and let them figure it out. Or, there's call in radio where you can be anonymous. If the Lord leads, He will protect. I was thinking about that too... like what if where I applied for a job sees it and decides to forget it....I guess I'll find out in a couple of days if I'm still going to be hired.

I think we're witnessing only the sweet furry upper side mostly so far.  Once in significant power, the deadly underbelly will begin to show itself.  The Genesis account says everyone, "down to the last man".

It may take awhile, but it's happening.  Yesterday Massachusetts actually issuing gay marriage licenses; on the news, said U.S. now one of four nations.

Some other states' governors are saying they will honor Massachusetts' licenses--I believe NY is.  Chicago's gays are sabre rattling.

I'm not seeing myself as a town-to-town refugee or fugitive.  Most likely will stand my ground, where I am, since I'm self-employed.  But as I become more vocal, or if I do, I imagine my customer base will begin to dry up.  So it will mean the tax man coming to confiscate the property and then, I suppose, the sheriff.  

A neighboring town newspaper just printed one of my letters to the editor.  They no longer will here--unless, I guess, it was supportive, lauding or ecumenical.  I've been amazed at how submissive and fearful my own community apparently is, of saying anything--or if they want to say anything anyway.  Most of my friends or peers are afraid of me now, apparently afraid they'll be iimplicated and lose their jobs, since most of them are employees and have careers to think about.  

But, because of our country's structure and constitution, we may be able to continue a significant public statement, at least for some time yet.  That's what I'm planning on, anyway, and working on.

I'm planning on a situation where there's an ongoing tension--sort of like Nehemiah rebuilding the wall but at the same time fighting off the attackers.

Could you explain what this means? I'm unclear.

Yesterday i got someone to go with me down to the courthouse in the city (downtown) because the gays were planning a "march" to the clerk's office to demand that their "marriage" certificates from a few days ago be recognized. The march was led by 4 "pastors" of a gay church.

the t shirt I'd been making didn't turn out so I put the message on a sign - we had 2 signs, actually, different on each side. The big design was a graphic like you see outside restrooms, the generic man and the generic woman, but I had them holding hands, and underneath, "God's Way". We also had a sign that said "Jesus Wept" and one that said Same Sex with a circle and red line thru it. We stood at the entrance to the courthouse. Several passersby agreed - most, in fact. Only a few detractors.

The tv people put the signs on the air on a couple of channels, praise God. One station aired a one sentence comment I made, but only one time. Which is better than nothing. (I can't find the links.)

By and large, most of the media coverage, when I watched several stations later, avoided showing our signs, or making any mention of there being any opposition at all. I guess that they mentioned it at all, anywhere, is a good thing, tho.

They had a big pro-marriage rally here the day before yesterday. About 3000 Christians gathered at the state capitol. A lot of them had signs, and there was a lot of media coverage.

What bothers me about that is this: it's great to work for laws to protect marriage and whatever else is wrong out there. But it seems like all the Christians are relying on that. Yesterday, my friend and I were the ONLY 2 protestors there, period. Where is everybody????? this is a big metropolitan city with several million residents! (we were downtown, not out where I live) I read later that a couple of people from the Center for Arizona Policy (the ones who sponsored the pro-marriage rally on Monday) were around yesterday (while we were holding signs in front of the courthouse) but I find it odd that neither of them came by to say hello or offer encouragement or anything. It's like they want to distance themselves from anyone taking a public stand in opposition. From reading their web site, it looks like they hope to accomplish everything thru legislation. Nothing "radical" you know. The problem with legislation is some judge comes along and just overturns it all anyway. So it isn't enough. I thought they (the people from CFAP) were Christians. What gives?? We weren't shouting or anything - just holding signs.

I don't think standing against all this will ultimately prevent it from all going ahead at some point - so why bother. But somehow it just seems wrong to cave in and do nothing. Feels like spittin' into a hurricane, actually. Do I even want to?

The discouraging part is, I have discovered that most Christian really don't want to do anything at all about anything and probably won't. I think in the end, they will hang you out to dry - and one will be "out there" all by themselves. That's a really desolate feeling. Surely there are people somewhere who believe is speaking out. If not about homosexuality, then about all the other ills that are evil. Aren't we supposed to speak out against evil? (and provide the solution, Jesus). When did the gospel change??

When you said the Chicago gays were "sabre rattling", that sounds just like here. Do you have any links for Chicago? Here, they were acting all demanding and whipping up the crowd, and "demanding" things. Hah! Oh, and they marched singing, We Shall Overcome, like they were some poor blighted group. It was almost funny. (I'm sure just to us)

As far as your customer base drying up, I think the Lord will protect you if you are in His will. Somehow. I know how you feel.

When you said you were amazed at how fearful and submissive your town is, and then how your friends or peers are afraid of you know, what's going on?? What are you saying? My friends have been polite to listen, but no one wants to get involved. (except the one friends elderly mother from yesterday) I sometimes see a news flash from another town and they'll quickly show someone holding a banner saying Homeosexuality Is A Sin, so there are people somewhere. I think the Lord has dropped that message into people's spirits. But where are these people? Are they alone too? What church do they go to ?? What's their story??

What do you mean about the Nehemiah thing??

Congrats on the letter to the editor. What was it about?

  By the way, I wasn't "praying for the marriage applicants", I was preaching against sin. They twist everything.

Lastly, I'll have to go over to the Krystallnacht thread and read up....also, where is that film by John Huston? I never heard of it.

The Genesis account says everyone, "down to the last man".   Could you explain what this means? I'm unclear.

The account of Sodom, and Lot:  "...the men of the city...compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter..."  (19:4--KJV; my RSV says "...down to the last man").

It's based to my mind on the principle that whatever we become complicit in, is what we become.  In contrast to NT verses, like "...be instant in season and out of season..", or "rebuke with all authority", or Jesus's instant response to
Peter, "Get thee behind me Satan; for you are not on the side of God, but of Satan".  There, Jesus is calling Peter literally "Satan".

Barring other factors(which is unlikely), given enough time our society will become homosexual through and through, with a whole orphan class at the same time produced by the bisexuals.

Lot and family must have been the exception, but from the context it would appear that it was only a matter of time, for even Lot was willing to toss them his two daughters.

 

By and large, most of the media coverage, when I watched several stations later, avoided showing our signs, or making any mention of there being any opposition at all.

Yes, I'm guessing most in the media are at least sympathetic to the gay cause--a very key issue in all of this.  They are in my own small town now--and just within the last two years or so.  But it is the "media" whereby we gather, sift and analyze information--the very printing press itself--the catalyst for the whole Protestant Reformation, not barely a century later after the press's invention, and a major underpinning, originally, of a free state like our U.S.--our U.S. was built on a "free press"--Benjamin Franklin's "Silence Dogood", etc.  It should come as no small "clue", that that one major influence by which human beings can and do make their individual decisions is among the first to be "converted" and "taken over".

What bothers me about that is this: it's great to work for laws to protect marriage and whatever else is wrong out there. But it seems like all the Christians are relying on that. Yesterday, my friend and I were the ONLY 2 protestors there, period. Where is everybody????? this is a big metropolitan city with several million residents! (we were downtown, not out where I live) I read later that a couple of people from the Center for Arizona Policy (the ones who sponsored the pro-marriage rally on Monday) were around yesterday (while we were holding signs in front of the courthouse) but I find it odd that neither of them came by to say hello or offer encouragement or anything. It's like they want to distance themselves from anyone taking a public stand in opposition. From reading their web site, it looks like they hope to accomplish everything thru legislation. Nothing "radical" you know. The problem with legislation is some judge comes along and just overturns it all anyway. So it isn't enough. I thought they (the people from CFAP) were Christians. What gives?? We weren't shouting or anything - just holding signs.

Yes, the fair-weather brethren, I suppose.  This is what makes yours so much the more authentic--and speaks volumes, unfortunately.  The legislation is already on the other side--you know this b/c they're voting on an issue like the "marriage amendment".  If we have to legislate what something as fundamental as "marriage" is, then that fact alone is the signal to get outta Dodge.  What's next, that we have to *legislate* that two plus two equals four?  Can't you just "see" that two plus two equals four?  Do we need a law declaring it?

Feels like spittin' into a hurricane, actually. Do I even want to?

You're exhibiting all the same trial of temptation as from Moses' reluctance, to Jonah's fleeing to Tarshish(instead of witnessing to Ninevah), to Peter's denial of Jesus three times.

The temptation to hide or run is overpowering.  "...all the sheep will scatter..."

But you wanted to witness for Jesus Christ, and you did, and it really paid off, with the media coverage that you did get.  ANd you were the only one.

Suppose you hadn't gone?

most Christian really don't want to do anything at all about anything and probably won't.

This is the separating out that is going on here in the U.S. now even as we speak, the lines being drawn in the sand.  It is difficult to realize many of even those closest to us will choose to cling instead to the creature comforts.

Possibly I'm guilty of this, as in this shirts thread, by merely planning to incorporate "anti-gay" apparel--shirts, etc., into a business plan, rather than do it as you are.  I'm presently learning daily what the stakes may be, as I continue to interact with a wide variety of people.  Still, some are searching, and every approach--perhaps even the indirect approach--may have its place.  

I think in the end, they will hang you out to dry - and one will be "out there" all by themselves. That's a really desolate feeling. Surely there are people somewhere who believe is speaking out. If not about homosexuality, then about all the other ills that are evil. Aren't we supposed to speak out against evil? (and provide the solution, Jesus). When did the gospel change??

Yes, it is the "church" to watch out for, surprisingly.  Yes, it is a desolate feeling.  Most of the ministers I am aware of, while they may preach from the pulpit, seem loathe to make any public statement.  You rarely, if ever, see a letter to the editor, or even a paid statement, from a minister, in our newspaper, tho they have nearly a full page of their weekly church ads.  I remember reading that Adolf Hitler created the Gestapo in part to deal with the "church problem"--that is, churches were vocalizing their opposition, which of course soon ceased, mostly.  Those who didn't cease, disappeared.
Corrie Ten Boom's "Hiding Place" depicts vividly the pliable and complicit minister, in the movie.  Yes, it is all very scary.  I'm every bit the coward that minister was there.

When you said the Chicago gays were "sabre rattling", that sounds just like here. Do you have any links for Chicago?

Nope.  My source for this was ordinary late night radio--WBBM 780 out of Chicgo, which is a CBS affiliate.

As far as your customer base drying up, I think the Lord will protect you if you are in His will. Somehow. I know how you feel.

Yep, I think the more hopeless things look, the closer we are to the truth.  I'm constantly having to relearn that one.  But some good reminders on where not to place my faith.  

(except the one friends elderly mother from yesterday) I sometimes see a news flash from another town and they'll quickly show someone holding a banner saying Homeosexuality Is A Sin, so there are people somewhere. I think the Lord has dropped that message into people's spirits. But where are these people? Are they alone too? What church do they go to ?? What's their story??

Yes, Psalm 119 here directed me to one website, where a whole family is doing this, in VA I think, and they depend on donations.  I'll get their website back if I can find it.

Nehemiah was rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity, and given authority by the then ruling Persian king, to do so.  But local hostile authorities in Israel tried repeatedly to stop him from doing so; he ordered builders to literally build with trowel in one hand, and sword or spear in the other, in case of attack.  Thus, the ongoing "tension" between construction and having to fight.

Yes, my letter to the editor was a fluke you just never can tell about.  The local columnist liked it, so apparently it got in on that recommendation--and almost word for word, too--surprisingly.  It was in response to the columnist's earlier column about gay marriage; I said that basically we've already been breaking our marriage vows and trashed marriage for many years now, with such a high divorce rate, that it was rather hypocritical to malign the gays for wanting to adopt it as their own, if we ourselves have already thrown it in the gutter.  It almost came across as sounding like I was pro-gay, but I intended it that way.  I haven't heard about any response, and that was two months ago.  It was in a paper I don't subscribe to, so I don't know about any replies.


The John Huston film was epic for it's day--70s or 60s.  All-star cast, tho.  Anthony Quinn(Quale?) as Noah--excellent.  It's just called "The Bible", 'bout three hours long.  The people thronging and jeering Noah look just like people today--body paint, tatoos...

The three angels going down into Sodom, also, perfect.  Peter O'tool plays one of them; and he's looking around Sodom, and all the stuff they're doing, in the dark alleys.

It's just like today.

Thanks Symphony, that was encouraging.

As a general rule, people don't care what the Bible has to say unless they are drawn to it by the Holy Spirit.

Personally, I think that your T-shirts mis-represent me, and Christ.  If you study Christ's actions, you'll see that the only people he was harsh with were the Teachers of the Law which is what


have made yourself out to be.

Ummmm..... not to sidetrack the thread..... Do you not believe that homosexuality is a sin?  ???

Clearly the Bible says its sin.  So, the question is that he who is without sin should cast the first stone.  None of us are without sin.

What One Star Fish then is doing is casting pearls before people who haven't had any desire to seek God.  That scripture is right below the scripture that says "by what measure you judge, so shall you be judged."  No one said we should run around and say its fine, but instead we should focus on doing what we know to be doing.  There's plenty of poor folks in the world that could use some feeding.  There's parts of our country that are more dangerous then third world country.  There's the Lord's work to do in this land, but we don't want to do it.  Instead we want to get on our high horse and write things on our T-shirts and run out and cast our pearls about to people that will tromple that underfoot.

I don't agree that it's helpful and have considered maybe its not Biblical either.

Candice,

I would have to completely disagree. It is simply a stand for what is right and Biblical. There is a serious lack of that these days by Christians. In fact, that is a big problem that is responsible for the erosion of morals and the decline of our society. Everything is OK, and nobody stands up and says, NO! - This is not right! - This is sin! - This is against the teachings of the Holy Bible!  

The "everything goes" and silent Christians problem has resulted in a nation turning its back on Almighty God. There is a huge list of things that are not OK that have become almost the norm because Christians don't stand up and speak up. Evil is overtaking just about everything.

It is far past time for Christians to stand up and speak up. In fact, we ought to hold our brothers and sisters in Christ up and pray for them when they take a stand for good and God. Better yet, we should stand up and join them. There is nothing OK about the evil we have allowed into our schools, our homes, and our families. You could take a tiny example, like television, and see what the Holy Bible says. It's not being legalistic to say that most of what's on television is filth and should be turned off. Escalate the examples to dope, alcohol, lifestyles, and a host of other conditions that represent depravity, sin, destruction, and disobedience to God.

Candice, this is not legalistic. This is a Christian taking a stand on what is right and Biblical. We have arrived at a time in history where it is difficult to walk through our own homes without dealing with evil.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I can't say I'm surprised, but I sure am (insert word here that conveys message of disappointment, disgust, and a general *sigh* of "what is this world coming to?").

First of all - why did you have to criticize your vet for wearing jewelry?  Christians wear cross necklaces all the time.  Out of curiosity, if you had a choice between a competent vet who wore a pentagram and an incompetent vet who was a Christian, which would you choose?  I think the health of your pet is more important than your vet's religion.  (Also - please don't insult techs.  They deserve a lot more respect than a lot of people give them.)

What I can't understand after reading this thread is why you all want to spend so much time on blatant hatred???  Why must you insult and mock and generally spew bitter hatred in order to bring people to your religion (which is supposedly loving)?  Wouldn't a simple "Jesus loves you/me/everyone" shirt do??  Why do you have to portray your religion as hateful and angry?  Because that's what all these sayings are implying.  

If a bunch of kids are playing in a park, and one child walks up to another and screams "I HATE PEOPLE WHO WEAR RED SHIRTS - YOU WILL BURN IN ETERNITY FOR WEARING THAT HORRIBLE COLOUR, YOU SICK, DISGUSTING PERSON!", will the child wearing the red shirt say, "Oh hey - these kids are great!   I think I'll join their group!"?  The answer is NO.  This kid will instantly be repelled by the other person's hatred and insults and walk away.  

Ever heard the saying "You get more bees with honey than with vinegar"?

Y'all are using vinegar.  You're not going to catch any bees, guys.  You're just going to push them further and further away.

But if you all wish to continue with your hateful t-shirt messages and horrible words, go ahead.  If you think that will bring people to Christ, I think you need to think again.

much love,
~AAAA

Hi are you still looking for a slogan for your T-Shirt ? This scripture could be added to any saying that you would use. It is the Gospel and leads to salvation!
 


       How about....1st Corinthians 15:1-4

    This is lengthy for a T-shirt Slogan but the scripture could be included
 1)MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
 2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
 3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according  to the scriptures;
 4)And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
 

Clearly the Bible says its sin.
Clearly it does. But should we just avoid that part?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

No one said we should run around and say its fine,...
So we should neither condemn nor condone? Should we pretend it's not happening, either?

....but instead we should focus on doing what we know to be doing.
Which will be different for each person.
Romans 12:5,6a So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us,...

Instead we want to get on our high horse and write things on our T-shirts and run out and cast our pearls about to people that will tromple that underfoot.
Hmmmm..... couldn't the same have been said of say, Paul? Or anyone who ONLY spreads God's Word?
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Yep,
The Bible is FULL - beginning to end - of folks being persecuted for speaking God's word.  From OT Prophets to NT Apostles to MD martyrs – the story is the same:  To ignore HIS word in favor of gaining favor from MAN is a sin I would rate among the most deadly.

Speak the Truth, Walk the Truth.  (Talk the talk, walk the walk.)  Anything less is a “fence sitter” – read how Jesus speaks out against the “lukewarm” in his letters to the seven churches in Revelation.  

‘nuff said….

Amen Sincereheart and JudgeNot,

We live in evil and difficult times. I was just thinking about my grandchildren. Part of what they will or won't endure will be more up to their mom and dad, but I will have a hard time not saying something when the time comes. I actually think that my children expect me to and will not think that I'm meddling in their business. We have a pretty open and honest relationship, and I certainly respect their final decisions for their children, regardless of what I may think.

I will say something if their schools want to teach them that wrong is right. In fact, I would borrow money to send them to a Christian school if my children agreed. I feel fortunate knowing that my children will probably agree with everything moral or Biblical. It almost makes me cry to think about what children have to go through in some school systems.

It doesn't bother me at all for folks to laugh at me for being an old fashioned Bible believer.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I am Very happy for you Symphony!

I will Pray for your success!!!!   ;D


Blessings,  \o/

KristiAnn

So, we should stop "Turning the other cheek"  We should stop "loving our neighbor"  We should stop "Doing unto others as we would have done unto us"  We should stop all this "Golden Rule" business, because they're sinners and they must be stoned!  If we don't become hateful and stomp them out then they'll take over the country!  Have none of you read the Book of Daniel.  God says, HE IS IN CONTROL.  If you don't believe your Bible when God over and over says He is in control, then maybe you should run out and stomp those sinners.  

It's the principle of the matter.  Spread the GOSPEL.  Paul wasn't out preaching the ten commandments.  He said he was all about Christ and Him crucified.  It is for the LOVE of Christ.  For God so LOVED the world that He gave His only Begotton son . . .  Let me tell you, if a homosexual turns from his sin it will be LOVE that makes him do it.  Not hate.  Have you ever even noticed that homosexuals attibute sex to love?  They need love.  Not hate.  They want love. Not hate.  Only love will change them.  So, how does hating help?

I'm not saying that condoning is in order.  I never said that.  

Preach the gospel through you actions.  When necesary  use words.  People get tired of words.

One thing that's a true way to interpret the Bible is to interpret the Bible by acting out its words in Your life.

Who cares what your interpretation of the Bible is if it's not creating a love in your heart that turns into actions in your life.

Now next time some Christian gets to be lucky enough to live next to a gay person, -- if they're not the type of Christian that would have Championed staying in the Upper room!!  Lots of "Upper Room" Christians, that huddle in masses and don't speak with the sinners, their neighbors. . . .

But suppose a Christian had a neighbor that was also gay, the T-Shirt would just tell the neighbor that their Christian neighbor hates him.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing that certain things are wrong.  I'm just saying in its application I don't think it does any good to tell people to turn from sin without telling them to turn to God.  Usually if you can get a person to turn to God, that turn turns them from sin.  But turn from sin alone, there's nothing to turn to.  They need something to turn to.  Ask the Gay people themselves if your T-Shirt is going to make them turn to the Lord.

Then maybe you'll see my point.  Then maybe not.

Peace

Oklahoma Howdy to Candice,

I think that I know what you are trying to say, but I'm somewhat confused by the application of your examples. I don't think those t-shirts are going to say anything like "Let's stone the gays to death". If I remember correctly, most of the examples were very simple, like "Homosexuality Is Sin" and/or a Bible verse. Would that be making a true statement? Would that be hating or hurting anyone?

What if I wore a t-shirt that said "Pornography Is Sin", or any number of other examples. The same questions would apply. Dope and alcohol might be other examples. Our world is turning into a giant sewer. How long will it be before there is no decent place left to raise children. What if safe, clean, and Godly places ceased to exist? Would you wonder why?

Candice, I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to point out there is a price for saying nothing. Saying nothing also implies your agreement and acceptance of sin that will eventually claim members of your own family.

Love In Christ,
Tom

CC, You've gotten a lot mixed up. A whole lot. You make too many assumptions.

But it all boils down to this:

Let the Lord lead YOU to witness for Him however He chooses. Don't tell others that your ideas are the only way! God is not limited by what you think.


We are where we are today because too many didn't stand up for what was right. They turned a blind eye. They were afraid of hurting someone's feelings. They were afraid of being labeled. They wanted the world to like them. So by not saying anything, they've condoned the very things that God is against. "Using words" on a tee is not bombing an abortion clinic. It is not shooting an abortion doctor. It is not saying that homosexuality is an unforgiveable sin.

Confusing 'Tolerance' and 'Love'

Respecting others and embracing the multiplicity of humankind is, at its roots, a virtue. It engenders racial harmony. It enables men and women to appreciate one another's uniqueness. It even allows punk rockers and country music aficionados, Scream devotees and 102 Dalmatians fans to peacefully coexist. But that virtue can become a liability for teens unable to distinguish between diversity and perversity.

When we suggested to teens that a concert featuring an openly gay bond spewing pro-homosexual lyrics isn't exactly appropriate for Christian teens, we figured it wouldn't generate much controversy. We were wrong.

Amid a flurry of PC buzzwords, Becky scolded, "There is nothing wrong with opening with a gay band. It's great that they are open about their sexual preference. Being gay does not make them different in a bad way, or bad people. Maybe we need more gay bands to be open so then there won't be as much homophobia. I think we need to keep an open mind and respect others' preferences and style and even learn a little from them.

"A girl named Vickey stated, "I am really upset about your comment on homosexuality. You make it sound like it's a horrible thing. I thought that if you believed in Christ, you were supposed to love your neighbor and not judge people." Yet another parroted, "I think you should remember the verse about not judging others.

"Students of Scripture realize that the same Jesus who said, "Do not judge or you too will be judged" (Matt. 7:1) also commanded, "Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment" (Jn. 7:24). In order to make a "right judgment," believers must judge. The reason this can seem confusing is that there are two meanings of judge. One means to condemn; the other means to evaluate.

While we are forbidden to condemn (that's God's job alone), we are required to evaluate. Without "judging" in this context, we'd be unable to discern the difference between the atrocities committed by Adolph Hitler and the humanitarian efforts conducted by Mother Teresa. Or Jesus' sacrificial death and Judas' suicidal hanging. But somehow, teens have gotten the idea that loving someone means never evaluating or criticizing his actions.

Speaking the truth in love – now that's real love. It's how Christ dealt with the woman caught in adultery (Jn. 8:1-11). He forgave her and told her to leave her life of sin. He didn't say, "I'm okay. You're okay. It's just an alternate lifestyle." But many teens ignore God's desire for us to lovingly confront sin. They instead pride themselves on being "open-minded," "tolerant" and "respectful" of immorality. This raises the question: How long will it take some youngsters to go from respecting sin to experimenting with it? "Tolerance" and "love" are two very different things—a truth young people must grasp. We're called to love all men in the name of Jesus, not ignore their debauchery in the name of diversity.

Sin is a big deal to God. So much so that He allowed Jesus to die on a cruel Roman cross to rescue us from its grip. Glossing over evil—whether our own behavior or something the entertainment media has produced—is to say in essence, "What You did is really of little value to me. God, my view of sin is different from Yours, and frankly I'm not that disturbed by it." Though it is of utmost importance that young people learn to reach out in love to everyone, it is equally vital that they not take this apathetic, tolerant approach to sin.


Taken with permission from Dare to Dig Deeper Series, copyright (c) 2001 by Focus on the Family. All rights reserved.
http://www.family.org/ (http://www.family.org/)

I want a T-shirt that says "Stop the hate."

I doubt I'll find one though. Like everyone else, I'll have to make my own because most of the Christians I meet are intent on spreading the hate.  :(

Why, I am truly sorry if you have been offended by "Christians" in any way.  I know it can be terribly confusing to see something un-Christian come from "supposed" Christians.  I offer my deepest sympathies for the pain you have been caused.

I only ask that you remember that Christians have struggles, too.  They fight spiritual battles that pull them many different directions at the same time.  Many times, that is when the forces of darkness step in and sway them using the power of their own emotions, leading to something they never intended to do in the first place.

But Jesus isn't like that.  He accepts you just the way you are.  You don't have to change a thing.  Homosexuality?  Abortion?  Drugs?  Doesn't matter.  He accepts you.  And if you are willing, he will show you the right path from the inside, not the outside.  I know, too many Christians want to change your outside first.  (Stop smoking! Stop drinking! Etc!)  They just know the road they have already travelled, and want to help you avoid the pitfalls.  Their intentions are good, really.  But the answer for man lies in his inner heart and soul, not in correcting his outside addictions.  Allow God to fix the inside first, and the outside will follow.

If you keep your eyes on Him, not on other Christians, and never stop seeking the truth, He will help you understand your own changes when you are ready to make them.  For some, He seems to change them instantly, immediately.  But for most, He works on them gradually, helping them grow over time, making the changes more lasting, more in keeping with what they can handle.  Be patient and work to rid yourself of doubt and confusion, which are not from God.  His light is constant and never changes, like a beacon in the night.  He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

You know, Christians by themselves are simply not capable of real love.  But when they step out of God's way (by removing their personal agenda), and allow Him to work, that's when miracles happen and lives are changed.

There would be no abortion if people's hearts were changed and their ability to care for an unborn life were to grow.  There would be no homosexuality if people's hearts were changed and men and women were accepted and helped to understand who God made them to be, especially by their parents.  (Any dads listening out there? Unless you want homosexual sons, you'd better learn to nurture their gentle side and show them how God really intends for that quality to be used.  Otherwise, they'll misinterpret it and learn to hate you for not accepting them.)

Too many Christians attack issues with picket signs and petitions, as if that will somehow solve the real problem.  I have no doubt that that is the source of the hate you have seen.  But, I implore you to recognize it for what it is and isn't.  It is hatred, but from Christians it is not hatred for a person; rather, it is hatred of an action that grieves them to the very core.

The bottom line is, God despises your sin.  But He loves you.  And with His help, so do I.

Oklahoma Howdy to Why? and Daily Walker,

There is nothing wrong or hateful about telling the truth and calling sin, sin. Quoting a Bible verse or holding a sign that says "Homosexuality" is a sin is quite proper. In fact, it is kind to inform someone they are wallowing in sin and death. The knowledge of sin and death is a way of showing someone a path to Christ. Silence and tolerance is greatly responsible for the rampant evil we see today. Silence and tolerance will simply encourage it to grow and more people drug down into the darkness of pain, despair, sin, and death. Silence and tolerance simply lets the devil's voice be the only one that is heard.

Recognizing that you are a sinner and knowing that you need to be rescued is the first step to Christ. It is not kind or Biblical to put your stamp of approval on evil by your silence. That is just one of the reasons why the defense or promotion of alternative lifestyles IS NOT permitted on Christians Unite.

Daily Walking, I'm not sure what you are suggesting when you appealed to Christian dads about the training of their children. If you are suggesting anything other than the teaching of Biblical morals and values, you would be wrong. One of the biggest problems of this society is the lack or absence of the teaching of Biblical morals and values.

Regardless, if you wish to tell Christians to be silent about evil and sin, you are in the wrong crowd of Christians. More is part of the answer, NOT less. America started falling apart when they took prayer out of public schools. This was only one factor, but it only took 50 years for America to turn its back on God and become a nation where evil rules. I was there 50 years ago, and I know that silence and tolerance by Christians is one of the primary factors for the rampant evil we see today.

If someone is offended by the quoting of a Bible Verse or a plain TRUTH statement of sin, I say GOOD!! Maybe that feeling will lead to recognition, conviction, and seeking a Lord and Saviour for rescue and Salvation. No Christian should ever be ashamed of the WORD OF GOD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

You missed my point by a long shot, blackeyedpeas.  I never told Christians to stop hating sin, nor did I tell them to stop calling sin, "sin."  Read the bottom line: "God despises your sin."  So do I, and it is scripturally based to do so.  But you advocate spouting your hatred of sin at the expense of the sinner's heart.  Shame on you.  Hate the sin, but not the sinner.

Name one person that Jesus saved by brow-beating them about their sin.  You can't.  Jesus first found the sinner, then filled their needs and loved them, then forgave them of their sin, then changed them from the inside out.

To be "Christian" means to be "Christ-like".  That means we too, should first find the sinner (Matthew 28:19), fill their needs and love them (Matthew 22:39), forgive them (James 5:16), and watch God change them from the inside.

bep, you simply don't have the power to save anyone, especially if you drive them away with brow-beatings.  To dictate the law to a non-Christian is sheer foolishness.  They don't even have a foundation to build on yet, much less the one true foundation.   Lay the foundation first, I tell you.  It is the Christians who need to be told what is/is not sin, because to the non-Christian it is sheer folly.  How can they possibly be expected follow the scriptures, when they haven't even asked "the Word" into their hearts?

I Cor. 13, my friend.  You can spout the evils of sin all you want to, but if you "have not love", you are worthless, and maybe I *am* in the wrong group of Christians.  I will be glad to leave, and shake the dust off my sandals when I go.  Perhaps my only purpose here was to let "Why?" know that she is loved.  She didn't seem to be hearing anything but hate from anyone else here, and no wonder.  You're all consumed with your precious T-Shirts.

As for the homosexual advice to dads, you've obviously never read James Dobson.  It's essentially straight from his book.  I have a son, and I encourage him not to suppress his gentle side, but to see it's true purpose, which is not homosexuality, but compassion for others.  I am following scripture to the letter, despite what you may think.

I've read enough posts to know that you know scripture, and that you have impressed quite a few people with that knowledge.  I know this from the "oohs" and "aahs" that invariably follow.  But the devil knows the scriptures too, even better than you do.  Knowledge of the scriptures is meaningless without application. Brow-beating non-Christians is NOT the intended application. The intended application is a closer relationship with God Himself, nothing more, nothing less.

So, in that light, let me apply this to those out there that would count oppression of sinners as acceptable in touting the hatred of sin:
    Luke 6:41-42 - "Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Friend, let me take out the speck in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye."
    John 8:7-11 - When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."  Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.  At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"  "No one, sir," she said.  "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared.  "Go now, and leave your life of sin."

Like it or not, Jesus loves doctors who murder unborn children every bit as much as He loves you.  He loves Saddam Hussein as much as He loves anyone.  It is the sin He hates and cannot tolerate.  But they are no more guilty of it than you are.

So, do you still think I am telling you to stop the abortion picketing now? No, if that message comes to you, then it comes from somewhere other than me.  I won't tell you what to do.  I will say this, however: think of all the time spent picketing that could have been spent loving someone to Jesus.  How many eternal souls have been lost so that we can try to save the physical bodies of unborn children whose souls are in His care anyway? (Forgive us for that, Father. We have been truly blind.)

You can't chop a tree down by hacking at the leaves.  You have to go to the root, which is at the heart of man, not his sinful fruits.

Hello Daily Walker,

If you equate a sign, a shirt, or a bible verse as hate, that would go right along with the times. There are places talking about portions of the Holy Bible being hate speech. And, you guessed it, the ACLU is about to propose legislation. And schools - WHEW!! - hold onto your hat. The time is already here where God's pulpit has been removed and replaced by one of the devil. It isn't even an equal time situation.

My first sentence is the subject of this thread. So if you feel this is hate, we can agree to disagree, but that won't effect my holding a sign, wearing a shirt, or quoting a Bible verse. They are already shoving the alternative lifestyles into the face of our elementary school children. I'll sit down and be quiet when I go home to be with my Lord and Saviour. Until then, I'll just increase the size of my sign. Most of that garbage hasn't hit my state yet, but I will need loud speakers if it does. Let me describe it this way, grandma and I are in complete agreement with our children. Our grandchildren will never be taught evil in school. If my wife and I are old stuffed shirts, so are our children. I'll simply get a second mortagage an send all of them to Christian schools.

See, your post has almost caused me to reverse my stance on this issue.   :D  I say that in a good-natured way. I would expect you to witness and take whatever actions you feel convicted by the Holy Spirit to do, and I will do the same.

Love In Christ,
Tom

If it stopped with the sign, shirt or a bible verse, it would not be hate.  Those things by themselves cannot be hate because they have no heart.  But ask yourself honestly, what is it really that people like "Why" construe as hate?

I've been around the picket lines.  There is more than signage going on many times.  There is abusive yelling at the doctors and their patients.  With homosexuality, gay-bashing has been rampant among the Christian community in many areas.  It's sad, but it makes the news, and non-Christians are informed of the direct link Christians have to the whole thing, even though those who truly love Christ would never do such things.

Bible verses are fine as far as Christians are concerned, but until someone sees the love and invites Jesus in, most of them are "bossy" and perceived as me trying to tell everyone else the right way to live.  In their eyes, who am I to tell them such things?  That's perceived as arrogance.  The only thing that is never misunderstood is love, pure and unconditional love that only God can give.  The devil cannot duplicate it, no matter how hard he tries.  That's why they will know it is different.

When love is abundant, people become open to the power of the Holy Spirit.  They are more receptive to being drawn by the Father, and are much closer to making a decision.  Once they do, and "The Word" lives in their hearts, the scriptures become truly useful in teaching them exactly who lives there, helping them to change their outside actions.

I'm glad you see the purpose in my posts.  Perhaps I won't leave after all.  I'll just hang around for a while and watch for those who aren't comfortable with Christianity and speak to their needs.  They are, after all, the target of the Great Commission, right?

Love in Christ back at ya, ;)
Craig

Character is always lost when a high ideal is sacrificed on the altar of conformity and popularity. ~Charles Spurgeon

A good christian shouldn't go around kicking people for their weaknesses. Instead of spending time putting messages like that on a shirt maybe you should invest that time helping the weak and show them God.

AMEN!!! Allie!!  ;D


Blessings,  \o/

How is a tee shirt kicking anyone?  ??? Can't you show 'them' God through his Word?  ???

Just a thought:
Ezekiel 3
18 If I say to the wicked, "You are going to die,' and you don't sound the alarm warning them that it's a matter of life or death, they will die and it will be your fault. I'll hold you responsible. 19 But if you warn the wicked and they keep right on sinning anyway, they'll most certainly die for their sin, but you won't die. You'll have saved your life.

May I direct you to the following audio/video examples:

http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch.shtml
http://www.livingwaters.com/watch.shtml

And the following Scripture.

Isaiah 58
1   Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

Ez 3:18   When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19   Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Eph 5:11
11   And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12   For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13   But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

1 Timothy 5

20   Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Titus 2 11  
 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12   Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

15   These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

ITh 5:14
Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.


Ec 7
5   It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

Matthew 14: 3   For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.
4   For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.

Mt 5
19   Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20   For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

27   Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28   But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29   And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

And~

Psalm 12:
1 Help, LORD , for the godly are no more;
the faithful have vanished from among men.
2 Everyone lies to his neighbor;
their flattering lips speak with deception.

8 The wicked freely strut about
when what is vile is honored among men.

Wow.
Anyone else thinking of Gay Pride and Abortion Pride? :-\
'When what is VILE is HONORED among men'?

But we don't want to be mean or labeled as a bigot or intolerant so with 'flattering lips we speak with deception'?
 :-X

AMEN OneStarFisher and SincereHeart,

We already know that the devil has been busy and is holding many people hostage, in bondage to sin and death. The sin always involves great pain and suffering during this short walk on earth, but it also involves pain and suffering for eternity.

In short, it is cruel for a Christian to remain silent. One of the first steps to the LIGHT is realizing one is living in sin and is in desperate need of a Lord and Saviour. If a Bible Verse or a sign makes someone angry who is wallowing in sin, darkness, and death -  GOOD!!!  Maybe it will lead to conviction of sin and one step toward Christ.

It isn't pleasant for a Christian to speak up many times. There is nothing in the Holy Bible that says speaking the TRUTH and spreading the GOOD NEWS is pleasant. In fact, the Holy Bible states the opposite. Would anyone expect it to be pleasant to share a portion of Scripture with the devil? The devil doesn't want to hear it and will do everything possible to shut out HIS WORD, including the convincing of Christians to be silent. Christians are NOT given equal time to combat the devil, nor can they buy equal time to combat the devil.

I would love to see an America where the devil couldn't go around any corner without seeing and hearing THE WORD. However, many Christians oppose this - WHY???? I would ask if there is a shred of evidence that suggests silence helps those who are wallowing in sin and death. We all know that the complete OPPOSITE is true. The devil is running rampant, seeking hosts to devour, and facing almost NO opposition. The last 50 years in America is a perfect example of what the devil can do when there is NO or inadequate opposition. The devil will be most certainly heard, but most Christians will remain silent and let the devil take what he wants, including their own children and loved ones.

UM???? - Are there many families left that aren't being tortured by the devil in one way or another?? (i.e. alcohol, dope, pornography, alternative lifestyles, abortion, moral bankruptcy, Biblical bankruptcy, etc., etc., etc.). I think it is quite Biblical for a Christian to stand in the way of the devil, speak up, fight, and keep fighting. It's not easy, but we are called to do JUST THAT!!

I do wish to serve God in any way he calls me. I don't expect to be popular in HIS service, nor do I expect it to be easy. However, it wasn't easy for Jesus to die on the CROSS for me. Being popular with everyone, including the devil, is a clear sign that I'm not doing anything in HIS service. If those wallowing in darkness and the devil like you, you need to figure out who you are working for.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Good words, blackeyed peas and sincere heart.

There is a fine line. I can see what people mean when they say it's "hate" or self-righteousness to proclaim the truth.

We can't expect the world to change, because the world is the world. Dead in sin. That's what's wrong with all this trying to legislate morality - it won't happen. We are to call sinners OUT of a sinful world into a relationship with Christ.

If the whole world is going along with their agenda, and Christians are remaining silent, how will they ever know? Their conscience bears witness. But we need to bear witness also.

There are a lot of pushes to legitimatize the homosexual movement. They will succeed, simply because we know the world will get darker and darker until Jesus comes back. But there are a lot of young people watching. And people who are borderline homosexuals. They are in some cases trying to convince themselves. For people to stand up and say,no, this is wrong, makes some of them think. It makes young people question more, what they are being told. There are a lot of people who are "going along" with the whole homosexual agenda because they think it's the politically correct thing to do - until they realize that not everyone feels that way. Then they are more encouraged to speak up themselves about how they really feel.

When we were holding our signs on the street, the majority response was favorable and most definitely against homosexuality. This is the pulse on the street.

So, whether you wear a button, or print it on a visor, or put it on a shirt - it's a statement that needs to be stated. And while we're at it, abortion is murder and fornication is also a sin - these need to be confronted as well. So does lying and adultery. But the one they're really shoving at us is the hs thing. Their ultimate goal is to silence any speech that states the truth and back it up with legal ramifications. That is the lengths they will go to protect their self delusion and rebellion.

Is it wrong to speak the truth in the face of that? Certainly not.

A sure sign you're making inroads into the enemy's (satan's) territory is when you have people upset at the fact you are saying something definitive, asking why, and accusing you of being unloving or something.

But, I would also caution a person to examine their own motives.

Secondly, it's not about being "self- righteous", hating anyone, being holier than thou, heaping condemnationm (although they are ALREADY condemned), etc. There is a lot of that, you have to admit. We are all wretched, naked, miserable and blind without Christ. We were once hovering over the abyss as well. Our word should be a word of warning.

I am continually amused at Christians who talk about "love" and their Christianity. They want to hug and schmooze and tell people Jesus loves them. Yes, He does. But people who are in willful rebellion could give a rip. They don't see their precarious position. Or, they think they can be a Christian and refuse to let go of their sin at the same time. That is still rebellion, and you can't have it both ways. It is still I who am lord of my own life at that point. If you make Christ Lord of your life, you have to be willing to let go of everything.

How abour a T-Shirt that says;

Praise Jesus, I am Alive Because of Him. Please ask me how to Know My Jesus!!


Blessings,  \o/

How abour a T-Shirt that says;

Praise Jesus, I am Alive Because of Him. Please ask me how to Know My Jesus!!


So - wear one then!!
 :)

ummmm, I would if I could!! I have no money to my name. Awaiting SSDI for more than a year is Not fun.

I am severely disabled and depressed at the sametime.  God did give me something nice today. My Oregon Health Plan now covers my Dental and Mental Health.  There to much for me to explain here.  I am Not crazy!!!  I just need Grief Therapy over my daddy's suicide last year!!!!!!!!

Well, you could write it on a cardboard with a magic marker - that would work.

The best (and only) grief therapy is Jesus Christ - sometimes the grief is bottomless or seems so, and we need to continually "climb up into His lap" and give it all to Him. He is the only One Who helps me with grief over my mother's death, and that was 3 years ago. I cry, and He is there. It is enough. I'll remember to pray for you...

good night - please remember He is with you and has an inexhaustable well of comfort for you....

there is a lot more to "My Story" you do not know!  I was born with a severe birth defect called Pectus Excavatum, I am disabled because of this.

Please Private Message me and I will give you more details or click on this link ~> "My Story" (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=4606) to read in the Prayer Requests at Christian's Unite!

Blessings,  \o/

PS, thanks for the Prayer

Now see, I thought using a verse from God's Word would be better than any word from man..... ;)


Isaiah 55
11   So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

here;s another I reallly Love!

Isaiah 40:31
They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as Eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Uhhhh....... what does any of that have to do with using the Word of God on a tee shirt?  ???

Sorry I was Off Topic SincereHeart......  :'(

"TWO"Thumbs Up

<:)))><

Our Youth group has been designing and giving out shirts within your group, so here they are:

Slogan: "Hungry"
Picture: A Chinese take out box
Verse: sorri its in the wacher right now..i cant remember the exact vers, ill psot later
----------------------------------------------------------
Slogan: God's Army
Picture: A swise army knife type of cross
Verse:"Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your
          stand against the devil's schemes."
                       Ephesians 6:11

those are only a few of them..but if u wanna know the rest.. e-mail me and i will make sure the write them down and send them to u

Two cowboys on horseback in desert; spot circling vultures in the far distance.  One says to the other:

"Hmm, I dunno.  'Could be grief counselors; 'could be vultures."


hehe.    ;D

I strongly suggest that you NOT put that one on a shirt!  ;)

hehe... ;D

So where are you with it, Symphony?  :-\

Well, basically, it's in three stages.  It won't be until stage three that the shirts actually appear.

That's a distance away.  I'm barely into stage 1 now.  And that will be for a while once there.

But I'm praying about it, and I see potential that was there all the time, but hadn't even thought of, or noticed it.

I have been making T-Shirts and wearing them for over 24 years with this on the front:


        WHAT DO YOU SEE?



(http://members.aol.com/crusader1s/jesus4.art)






<:)))><

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Love,

AH!!!!! - I bet they ask and you give them the GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE!!!

I LIKE IT!!

Love In Christ,
Tom

YES Brother your right :)


<:)))><


                        WHAT DO YOU SEE?





(http://members.aol.com/crusader1s/jesus4.art)

Check The Time:

To day is the day of salvation
and now is a good time to be saved.

Acts 16:30-31 "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and thou shalt be saved."


(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/blgif1.gif)