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I could use some help & thoughts on this. Im not sure if I believe this. Ive seen ppl at different churches go down in the "spirit" and Ive heard it is a gift by the Lord. Then I have heard pastor say it isnt of the Lord & isnt biblical. I guess Im still a babe in Christ. By far not as knowledgable in the word of God as SO many of you are here, but Praise God I am trying, heheh. But I would like some insight on this. Is it ir isn't it of God?
I heard this pastor say the only time we heard slain in the spirit was from when those ppl stole $$$ from the church and kept it for themselves & then lied & God slained them????
Thanks All for the Help (Sorry to come off so ignorant here)

Every time someone falls backward in the bible it is because they are under Gods judgment.
Slain in the spirit is a more accurate term than most realize.

Genesis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.
Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

One of the most powerful instances of falling backward is in the New Testament:

John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

I would stay away from those that practice this.

So then it isnt a "good" thing as some people think it is right? I mean it isnt like they are so happy "drunk" in the spirit that they pass out? Is that correct? Thank you for the scriptures too!

In my opinion a lot of people fake it just to go along with the ride.
When I was younger there was a musical group known as "The Beatles."
The story has it their publicist paid girls to scream and faint, soon others joined in.
Supposedly Elvis did the same thing, as have others.
That starts the ball rolling and soon the whole place is screaming and fainting.
My feeling is that a lot of this ‘slaying in the spirit’ is a similar idea, a type of mass hysteria.
There is another possibility too, that it is Satanic in nature.
One thing I am very certain of it is never a good thing in the bible.
It is always bad.

Acts 5:1  But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Acts 5:2  And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
Acts 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Acts 5:5  And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Acts 5:6  And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Acts 5:7  And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Acts 5:8  And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Acts 5:9  Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Acts 5:10  Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

Today there seams to be no end to the number of churches that want to have some kind of a show. A sign or miracle to put their faith in. That is one of the signs we are in the end times.

Matthew 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

"In my opinion a lot of people fake it just to go along with the ride."

I can testify to that.
  Back many years ago when I was in a pentecostal Church where our pastor, "brother Joe", as he was called, would have healing services at the Church every Sunday night where people would come forward for him to lay hands on you to be re-filled? with the Holy Spirit. most every one who went up and got touched fell backward as if knocked back by an unseen force, but when I went up to get what ever every one else was getting, nothing happened. Bro Joe would keep laying his hand on me waiting for me to fall back as all the rest did and as I could see that he was getting annoyed with me I decided I had better fall back before he slugged me. ;)
  I did feel guilty and ashamed after that, and have since repented of my sin. I no longer go to that Church and am not sure what good Ole "brother Joe" is doing now, but last I heard
he was caught in a scandal involving the female youth director.
 

God
bless

Thanks

I agree

Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15  For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16  But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

So why do you suppose these were thought to be drunken?

These were not "fakes" on the day of Pentecost, and if any choose to fake God`s power, does that make His power any less real? I know it does not.

If slain is the improper terminology does that limit the power of the Holy Ghost?

Also watch you dont blaspheme (to vilify; specifically to speak impiously: defame, rail on, revile, speak evil of) the Holy Ghost  by calling evil something you dont understand, especially the things of the Spirit.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  And don't judge by how the Holy Spirit deals with others.  Only stay with what is made real to you.  I'm sure that there are instances of where people fake "it"...or whatever...however, there was a group that I was leading once and we were all surrendering to the Holy Spirit and had trouble standing.  We all just sat on the ground, and I know that I felt a wonderful sense of my weakness and His strength.  I literally could not stand.  Call it what you want - it was an overpowering of His wonderful presence.  

The same thing happened in the early Temple when the glory of God filled the place and the priests could not stand.  

I know what they were feeling.  

We are not talking about that instance of speaking in tongues, where they spoke in foreign languages.

Acts 2:11  Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

We are talking about this new phenomenon known as being slain in the spirit.
It is not the blessing of the Holy Spirit to fall back as it is done in the groups that practice this.
Because they were all speaking the praises of God clearly in languages that were not their own. They were not thought to be drunk because they were flopping on the ground.

Not all fake it.
Sometimes it is the work of Satan.
Not only is falling backward a sign someone is under Gods judgment, so is fire from heaven.
Think of Sodom and Gomorrah.
The disciples suggested to Jesus that He call down fire from heaven.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Jesus could not destroy them because then he never would have gone to the cross to pay for our sins. No one would become saved.

This is the scripture they were referring to.

2 Kings 1:9 Then the king sent unto him a captain of fifty with his fifty. And he went up to him: and, behold, he sat on the top of an hill. And he spake unto him, Thou man of God, the king hath said, Come down.
2 Kings 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

When the crowd came to take Jesus in John 18, after he had prayed in Gethsemane, Jesus had every right to call down fire from heaven, just as Elijah did.
If He had done that He never would have gone to the cross. Instead He introduced the substitute for fire from heaven, falling backward.

John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Judas was right there in the middle, who was in Judas? SATAN.

John 13:27  And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Luke 22:3  Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

A big light bulb went off in Satan’s head, he made the connection. Falling backward was a substitute for fire from heaven.
The bible prophecy is that in the end times Satan will call down fire from heaven.

Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Revelation 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

However Satan is not able to call down literal fire from heaven.

1 Kings 18:24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
1 Kings 18:26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
1 Kings 18:38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

So now he has a substitute to fulfill the prophecy and deceive those that dwell on earth. How can there be any surprise that Satan comes as an angel of light? Is there any surprise Satan has workers working for him.

2 Corinthians 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:15  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Thessalonians 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

For some being slain in the spirit is faked, but for others there is no fake, it is the action of Satan.

Also watch you dont blaspheme (to vilify; specifically to speak impiously: defame, rail on, revile, speak evil of) the Holy Ghost  by calling evil something you dont understand, especially the things of the Spirit.

::)
I understand it quite well.
Too many people worship Satan and believe they are worshipping God. Their own hearts deceive them.

Jeremiah 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So many people needing signs and wonders, losing track of the gospel. The emergence of the signs and wonders movement is evidence we are close to the end of time.

Matthew 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22  For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I have given you strong scriptural support to show that the slaying in the spirit phenomenon is not a blessing from God.
What can you give me from the scripture to show that this is a blessing from God?
God warns us about the signs and wonders movement. You would be wise to pay attention. Don’t worship a false God.

The scriptures you used agrees with that statement.

However the only scripture you used that even remotely has to do with the subject we are discussing is this one...

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

... and you believe they fell to the ground not because of the power of the "I am" they were confronted with, but rather because of satan?



Hello?  where did you get that from?


Strong scriptural support? where? we both know that expression is used in the NT scriptures, yea or nay


There are obviously many phonies who are trying to capitalize on the vulnerability of believers,which  is percisely why God`s Word tells us to be filled with the spirit, so we can discern wether a any manifestation is actually from Him, and it must be  by knowing the truth (the Word) that keeps people following faithfully, not displays of power,  but I would not, and cannot, presume to  limit the way God has, or will, deal with individual believers or sinners

Heb 2:3  How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
Heb 2:4  God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

This might help clarify what I have tried to explain...

There are many terms that we use which were not used in the Bible, but designate scriptural facts or principles. Take the word "rapture," for example. Where is it found in the Bible? It isn't. What about the word "Bible" itself? It isn't found in the "Holy Bible" either, but was coined to describe the collection of divinely inspired books which we now claim as the supreme authority of our confession and our faith. So... just because being "slain in the Spirit" is not precisely mentioned does not mean that it is not a scriptural practice.

Secondly, let me say that there are many practices in the modern church for which we can find no corresponding practice in the early church. Take the "mourner's bench" or "altar" for example. The Bible shows us several occasions on which saints built altars and prayed to God, perhaps offering sacrifices of thanksgiving or praise. But where in the scriptures do we see a specific structure built (or even a specific place designated) as a place for sinners to pray a repentant prayer, and receive the Lord Jesus as their personal Savior and Lord? We don't. The "mourner's bench" took its place in the heritage of the church around the time of that greatly successful evangelist Charles G. Finney. Yet today many of us (and with good reason) decry the churches that have removed those wooden structures that we call "altars."

Thirdly, it seems to me that you may have a misconception of being "slain in the Spirit." There are many men today who blow on people, hit people, shove people, and break peoples' necks (an exaggeration). Being knocked down on the floor by a blow from a man's hand or his mouth is not being "slain in the Spirit." That is being "knocked over by a man" and has no spiritual connotations at all.

Notice with me, though, the reactions of some of the greatest men in the Bible when they came into the Presence of the Lord. Take Daniel, that man in whom even his enemies could find no fault except in his unswerving service to the Lord. What happened to Daniel when he came into the Presence of God's Spirit? "And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright" (Daniel 8:16 - 18).

We may even conclude that Daniel here was only in the presence of an angel. And whether it was the "man's voice" (Christ's voice) or the presence of the angel that thus affected Daniel, are we to expect that our response to such an awesome and holy Presence will be any more "dignified" than his? Now let us look at John's response...

"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man . . . And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not. (Revelation 1:13, 17) And this is that disciple whom "Jesus loved" and who laid his head on Jesus' breast at the "Last Supper." And in saying that he fell at the Savior's feet "as dead," John even lends credibility to our use of the word "slain" in the term "slain in the Spirit."

In conclusion, let us say that being "slain in the Spirit" should be the result of an overwhelming sense of unworthiness and awe in the presence of the Holy Spirit of God. It should not be imitated by using physical force or deceitful practices. Finally, though it is not named specifically in the Word of God as being "slain in the Spirit," there are several examples of happenings in the Bible that coincide closely with what true Pentecostals call being "slain in the Spirit."

Pat answers are not always appropriate, without considering the whole picture. First, there are numerous cases in the Bible of people who had divine visitations and experiences which resulted in their falling prostrate. (Gen. 15:12; 1 Sam.19:24; Daniel 8:17,18; 10:16; Acts 9:4; 10:10;) The Methodists' and other great revivals of church history have been been characterized by such phenomena. However, the experience seems not to have been a passing, light emotion, but rather a powerful impacting of the person's life and left a lasting impression, often resulting in a positive, marked change in distinct areas of their lives. It cannot be denied that some of what we see now may be the operation of occult or psychic powers, manipulation, suggestion, or mind control. Discernment must always be exercised. The Word is our standard for judging, and the fruit must be "unto godliness" in the person whose ministry is being questioned. (2 Tim. 3:10-15; 2 Thess. 2:9; Matt. 7:15,16;. 2 Pet. chapter 2 and the epistle of Jude describe the character of false teachers/prophets, thereby enabling us to recognize them.


http://misslink.org/chapel/askaminister/renewal/slain4.html

I am sorry you see it that way. To understand that this was a substitute for being under Gods judgment you need to see that some of the other verses used relate.
Earlier on my first reply I used some other verses, do you have another understanding of these or did you miss them?

Genesis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.
Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Here is a little more to show that those that fall backward are under Gods judgment.

1 Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Acts 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

Even though it doesn’t say which direction he fell both Ananias and his wife fell down.
The bible uses falling backward as a sign that someone is under Gods judgment. I find that these verses are clear on that. I am sorry you can’t see that.
As shown in 1 Kings 18 Satan is not able to call down fire from heaven. Yet the bible says he will in Revelation 13.
Is there any question that fire from heaven is because those consumed are under Gods judgment?
Is there any question that Jesus had every right to call down fire from heaven in John 18?
Do you understand the disciples suggested this very thing in Luke 9:54?
Do you understand Satan was there, in Judas, in John 18?
Don’t you realize Satan has no problem connecting the dots.
“I can’t call down fire from heaven…Fire from heaven is how God judges people…Making people fall backward is another way God judges people…Maybe I can make people fall backward“…Light bulb!


Revelation 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book <biblion> of life was cast into the lake of fire.

They will probably fall backward into the lake of fire.   ;)
We get the word bible from biblion.
The word rapture gets to us in a more round about way. My understanding is it comes from the Latin word, ‘rapere‘. ‘Rapere’ is a Latin translation of the Greek word, ‘harpazo’. ‘Harpazo’ is usually translated caught up.

1 Thessalonians 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up <harpazo> together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Yes, the altar call is an American invention. I believe it, like being slain in the spirit, leads away from Christ. Here is a good article about the altar call. http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?422
The power of the sermon should cause us to call out to God, not the power of suggestion.
A key statement, “ came into the Presence of the Lord.”
When you were slain in the spirit did you physically see God?
I don’t think so.
In fact these things happened as the bible was being written. The bible is now finished. There is no need to add anything more. God has given us His book to trust. Unfortunately many people feel they need more than the bible. And so they look for signs and wonders. When the bible was finished it was sealed.

Revelation 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Those that practice the slain in the spirit ceremony are adding to the book.
I would contend the altar call is also not in there, though at least the contention can be made that the bible does allow for calling out to God for mercy.
There is no problem with going to your knees and pleading to God for mercy, but this is much different than the falling backward that happens when one is ‘slain in the spirit‘.
I have fallen asleep on my knees praying to God, that is much different than being knocked unconscious.
Or instantaneously falling to the ground.

Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Being slain in the spirit may seem to be a wonderful work, it is not.

Left Coast,

Are you saying that being in Satan's power is the same as being in God's judgement? I'm a tad confused. ???

And besides, you speak as if God's judgement is ultimately a bad thing to be under, as if God didn't love us unconditionally!

I need more than the bible, Left Coast; I need my Lord and my God. To say that I need only the bible is a form of idolatry known as bibliolatry.
Was he referring to the whole bible, or just to Revelation?

And this is relevant how?... ???

I tend to be wary of the slain-in-the-spirit phenomenon. I think that it is often of the flesh. Probably it is most often a combination of fleshly and Spiritual influence; when the infinite interacts with the finite, the finite remains finite, and is not necessarily free of such forces as the desire to fit in, desire to influence others, the pumping of adrenaline and all kinds of other nice brain chemicals, etc. It can easily lead to idolatry; wise Pentecostal teachers will tell you to seek the Baptizer, and not the baptism.
I know several people well who have had the experience (I have never witnessed either of them having such an experience; neither of them has had any such experience in many years now). They are wise and mature Christian teachers, and stable and sensible people to boot, the fruits of whose lives are good. The fruits of their experiences of being slain in the spirit were also good; one of them described to me, for example, how the experience sparked in him a hunger to read God's word such as he had never experienced before, even though (as a scholar with a Ph.D. in theology) he certainly was well-acquainted with his bible. I cannot write the phenomenon off as demonic.

In His love,

-Grace

Satan wants to be God. He wants to have power. Gods judgment falls upon the wicked, it is not a good thing.


John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We can’t separate God, and Jesus from the bible. But when you start adding all sorts of other things you no longer have Gods word for a basis.
Bibliolatry? Is that in the bible?

2 Timothy 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The six words, “is given by inspiration of God” comes from one Greek word, “theopneustos”
The first part, theos, means God. Think theology.
The second part, pneo, means breath. Think pneumonia.
All scripture is God Breathed.

The whole bible. The bible is so intertwined you can’t add to any part of it without affecting the whole.

Shylynne quoted an “expert” that uses examples of the prophets of old. Using men that came into literal physical contact with God to justify being slain in the spirit. It is not the same thing.



Be very wary.

I have met many people that seem to be wise and mature Christian teachers. Stable and sensible, whose lives seem to be giving good fruit. Some are Mormon, some Catholic, some Methodist, some Reformed, some SDA, SBC, ETC.
All of these people can’t know the gospel. All can’t be saved. I do not try to judge the hearts of people, either direction. Only God can know if your friend is saved. I am surprised if your friend is a true scholar that he hasn’t made the connection between falling backward and being under Gods judgment.
Actually I am not that surprised there are many intense scholars in all those denominations I mentioned and none of them really agree with each other.
I am off to work in an isolated area of the Oregon Coast, I don’t know when I will be on line again.
God Bless,
John

John wrote:

HEY, NOT FAIR!!! What a dirty rotten trick! ;D

And, and isolated area of the Oregon coast? I must confess, I'm jealous! I have a real soft spot for isolated coastal areas.  ;D

Of course, this means that you won't be here to defend yourself!  :D But I'm sure others will step up to bat.  ;) And I hope you do, all; you make me think things through!

I disagree. It is the wicked who most need God's judgement! As hellish as the experience of God's judgement may be for them, I believe that it is their only hope. Paul wrote (I Cor. 4:21 "What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?"; how infinitely more awful will it be for the wicked when God comes with a rod!
BUT: Justice without love is not justice, and love without justice is not love. Just as the most terrible place for the wicked is in God's hands, so is it, even for the wicked, the safest.

Yes, and the bible is the finite manifestation of the infinite Word which was with God, and was God. It is created, not the Creator.

Not as such. But "idolatry" is; I'm just being a tad more specific.

 
I haven't had the chance to look into this; I'll have to get back to you...

Regardless of what Revelation 22:18-19 refers to, I would certainly agree. Note that I'm not talking about adding material to the bible; what I am saying is that far above and beyond the bible, I need God.

How do you know? And again, what does physically seeing God have to do with it, and what difference would it make in judging the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the experience?

This, too, is up for God to decide. Does any denomination or group consist exclusively of the saved? I don't think so. Neither would I assume that any group of people consists exclusively of the unsaved; with God, anything is possible.

And in a bunch of denominations that you haven't named.
And given this fact, we should all beware of believing that because a scholar disagrees with us, they are wrong.

I do hope that you get the opportunity to go online and defend your points soon,

In His love,

-Grace

I was in Port Orford. One day was spectacular weather, none of the days were bad. I don’t understand how someone can go to a place like that, and there are many such beautiful places on this earth, and not see the work of a creator.
I am going to continue working on the S. Oregon coast for the rest of the month.

You are confusing judgment with chastisement. God chastises His children. If there is a sin that we don’t seem to want to give up or we can’t get victory over God chastises us.

Hebrews 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

He loves His children, parents chastise their children when they misbehave.
The unsaved have a different father, their father is the devil.

John 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

For those that God intends to save and for those He has saved chastisement is used to bring repentance. It hurts.
There is no pain in the slaying in the spirit concept, unless no one catches you and you hit your head. It is a non-lethal substitute for the total inhalation of Gods fire coming down from heaven.
God uses many words to show judgment.
Stoning, flood, fire, and falling backward all refer to judgment. They are not designed to change behavior they are usually fatal.
Falling backward can be fatal as in 1 Samuel 4:18. It is also used as a non-fatal substitute. It is a way to show the wickedness of the people with out totally destroying them.

John 18:3  Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.

Here is a similar situation in the OT

2 Kings 1:9  Then the king sent unto him a captain of fifty with his fifty. And he went up to him: and, behold, he sat on the top of an hill. And he spake unto him, Thou man of God, the king hath said, Come down.

A band of men came to take Jesus. A band of men came to take Elijah.
They had no right in either case. Elijah responded by calling down fire from heaven.

2 Kings 1:10  And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

The fire consumed them. I am not sure why you think being under Gods judgment would be good.
Jesus had every right to do the exact same thing. Earlier the disciples had even suggested he call down fire from heaven.

Luke 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

If Jesus had called down fire He never would have gone to the cross.

Luke 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

It was necessary to show Gods judgment on those men that came to take Jesus but fire from heaven would have been counterproductive. Jesus invoked a substitute judgment, that did not have to be lethal.
It is still a judgment and not a chastisement.
By Jesus causing them to fall back he was saying:
You have just been consumed by fire.
Satan was not able to call down fire from heaven.

1 Kings 18:24  And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
1 Kings 18:29  And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.

Satan as Baal failed to bring fire down from heaven.
Then Elijah went to work.

1 Kings 18:37  Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
1 Kings 18:38  Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

The bible says Satan will call down fire from heaven.

Revelation 13:11  And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Revelation 13:13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
 
He looks like a lamb, it seems to be the gospel. He does great wonders, the signs and wonders churches. He makes fire come down from heaven---he is able to perform the substitute.
And he does it in the sight of men.

2 Corinthians 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

When you see this happening are you going to be like the second captain that came for Elijah?

2 Kings 1:12  And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

Or are you going to be like the third captain?

2 Kings 1:13  And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.

If something I have said suggested we don’t need God I apologize.
The bible is God breathed. It warns us that many that think they are worshipping God are not.
Many that called Jesus Lord, and felt they were working for Him, were not.

Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I do not worship the bible but I do trust the bible. I understand the translators are less than perfect as are the translations. I understand I am not perfect as are my understandings. When we seek truth diligently in the bible God can reveal it to us.

John 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

This could quickly grow into a huge topic, which I don‘t have time for. I do not believe God has continued to physically appear to man since the bible was finished, this ties in with Rev. 22.
I believe the bible warns that the nature of the end times is the emergence of signs and wonders churches. I touched on this slightly above. I have not heard anyone say they fell backward because they physically saw God. I believe I have given strong scriptural support that falling back is a substitute for fire coming down from heaven and burning them to ash.

Your answer is good.
Just because someone appears to be a wise and mature Christian teacher it does not mean they are or teach truth. That’s why I go to the bible for truth.

I am sorry I don’t understand this statement.

Revelation 16:14  For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So interesting that people say that being 'slain in the spirit' is of the devil. Very interesting....Consider:

From the NIV, Luke Chapter 9

49"Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us." 50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.


Dont assume because you believe someone, somewhere, to be doing something fake, means that everyone, everywhere, is also doing the same thing in a fake way, only seeking 'signs and wonders'.

Also, to say that it has only been a bad thing when people have laid down prostrate in the Bible was due to something other than the Glory of God, has not studied the OT on this matter. Let me elaborate:

Ezekiel 44:4
I saw the Glory of the LORD filling the temple of the LORD, and I fell facedown

Genesis 17:3
Abram fell facedown, and God said to him,

Leviticus 9:24
Fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed the burnt offering and the fat portions on the altar. And when all the people saw it, they shouted for joy and fell facedown.

Numbers 14:5
Then Moses and Aaron fell facedown in front of the whole Israelite assembly gathered there.

Joshua 7:6
Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD , remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads

1 Chronicles 21:16
David looked up and saw the angel of the LORD standing between heaven and earth, with a drawn sword in his hand extended over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell facedown.

Ezekiel 1:28
Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD . When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking.


Well, I guess the WORD itself has elaborated enough. No, I am not saying that the Bible says these people were 'slain in the Spirit'. But you see the same reaction. Under the presence, under the annointing, upon the Glory of our LORD, these people fell facedown. It does not say that they fell backwards, or that it was voluntary or not. But that doesnt take away from the fact that it happened: they fell down.....

Grace, and Peace to you all.