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Title: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on October 04, 2010, 05:54:44 PM Hi nChrist , and I can only reply because the other thread would not allow me to !
You said that is I am speaking about two Covenants , that you agree ! My question to you then is , Where does Paul ever say that the Godhead has a Covenant with the Body o9f Christ ? Will you use 1 Cor 11:25 ? I already have and OP , on what came first Covenants or Dispensations ? What say you ??? Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: nChrist on October 04, 2010, 10:29:40 PM Hi nChrist , and I can only reply because the other thread would not allow me to ! You said that is I am speaking about two Covenants , that you agree ! My question to you then is , Where does Paul ever say that the Godhead has a Covenant with the Body o9f Christ ? Will you use 1 Cor 11:25 ? I already have and OP , on what came first Covenants or Dispensations ? What say you ??? Dan, I'm not interested in arguing, especially about semantics and the strange way you put things. By the way, the other thread was temporarily locked while deciding if it was heresy or not. It is now open after it was decided you simply put things in a very strange way. Regardless, let me repeat, I'm not interested in arguing with you. Under the circumstances, I doubt that anyone else will be interested either. I guess you could argue with yourself. Has anyone ever been saved by the Law? - Answer - NO - not under any covenant or dispensation! - End of Story. Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on October 05, 2010, 02:11:35 PM Dan, I'm not interested in arguing, especially about semantics and the strange way you put things. By the way, the other thread was temporarily locked while deciding if it was heresy or not. It is now open after it was decided you simply put things in a very strange way. Regardless, let me repeat, I'm not interested in arguing with you. Under the circumstances, I doubt that anyone else will be interested either. I guess you could argue with yourself. Has anyone ever been saved by the Law? - Answer - NO - not under any covenant or dispensation! - End of Story. Hi nChrist , and Eph 2:12 says that we are " strangers from the Covenants of promise having no hope , and without God in the world . To ,me , than no Covenants were ever given to the Gentiles . And you do not have to debate me even when I know that what I write is somewhat controverial , even among Dispensationalist , but I know that I am not alone . Salvation under the Law is a separate subject . Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: Soldier4Christ on October 06, 2010, 11:54:15 AM Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Again this is not a debate as if you wish to debate it then you are debating against scripture not me. Note that Eph 2:12 is spoken in the past tense and that in the following verse is given a but that changes that situation. Also note the following verses which explains it better. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on October 06, 2010, 06:29:32 PM [quote author=Pastor Roger l
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [/quote Hi Pastor Roger , and no debate , ok , and here is a world for word literal translation of Gal 3:17 , And this I say , the Law , having come into existence after 4 hundred and 30 years , does not render void ( the ) covenant having been established beforehand by God in Christ , so as to abolish the promise . Most all see 2 subjects here ; the Abrahamic Covenant and the Law of Moses . To me , this verse states that the Covenant was confirmed before by God . Was confirmed by God is the Greek verb PROKUROO , and is used once in the New Testament . It is in the Perfect Tense , Passive voice , showing that God did the establishing and the Verb tense suggests that God will still do this in the future after the Departure/Rapture of the Assembly . This means to me that God is not finished with the Nation of Israel , as Covenant Theology teaches . This Galatians passage to is not linked to a Covenant with the Body of Christ and does not trump Eph 2:12 , NOR contradict it . Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: Soldier4Christ on October 07, 2010, 09:05:15 AM Dan, let me try to make this a little more clear so that perhaps you can understand it. Abraham was given a promise (covenant) that was based on faith not law. If you read the above verses and those throughout Romans and Galatians you will clearly see that through faith as soon as we belong to God that we are then heirs of that promise (covenant) through faith. Eph 2:12 is talking about those that were not a member of the Body as being "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" then as we see in Gal 3:16,17 and 29 that when we give ourselves to Christ that we then also become heirs to that same promise. Following are even more to add to that same confirmation.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on October 07, 2010, 04:06:28 PM Dan, let me try to make this a little more clear so that perhaps you can understand it. Abraham was given a promise (covenant) that was based on faith not law. If you read the above verses and those throughout Romans and Galatians you will clearly see that through faith as soon as we belong to God that we are then heirs of that promise (covenant) through faith. Hi Pastor Roger , to start off , Eph 2:12 a literal translation ; " that at the time you were without Christ , being ALIENS from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the Covenant/DIATHEKE of the promise , having no hope and godless in the world . Covenant theology thinks that they are the only ones who understand this section of Ephesians . Under Eph 2:12 according to verse 12 ; #1 , Gentiles are without Christ which means " Messiah " . #2 , ALIENS from the Commonwealth of Israel . And Gentiles are Aliens from Israel , with its government and citizenship and possessed the which counted with God . #3 , Strangers from the Covenants of Promise ; A stranger is someone OUTSIDE of Israel . #4 , This word is also used in verse 19 , where , because of salvation in Christ , THEY are not STRANGERS any longer but fellowcitizens and members of the household of God , another term for the Body of Christ , see Gall 6:10 . #5 , The word " promise " contains the SINGULAR Article in Greek ( Greek word THE " ) and should read " the promise " . #6 , This promise is the PROMISE of a Deliverer , a Messiah who would rule over the whole earth through the Nation of Israel , 2 Sam 7:4-16 . #7 , And as my Mentor says , this will the Grand Climax of God's promise to Isarel . Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 18, 2010, 11:07:43 AM Yes, the body of Christ definitely has a covenant.
duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 18, 2010, 02:04:17 PM Yes, the body of Christ definitely has a covenant. duval Hi duval , just love your response , so where is a verse that Contradicts a positive verse in Eph 2:12 , that the Gentiles where strangers from the COVENANTS of promise . It looks like you are out of gas !!! dan p Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 18, 2010, 04:47:16 PM Dan I'm so happy you love my response. I love it too. I love it because it isn't mine. Its from God. Note what your verse in Eph.2:12 says "---at that time--". But you limit your post to the gentile yet entitle your topic "Does the body of Christ have a covenant". Now just which one do you wish to talk about? The gentile was not incliuded in the covenant of the OT (but only as a proselyte) There was even a time when he was not incliuded in the bodiy of Christwhich is the church (or called out if you will). But now he is. Yes, the bodiy of Christ has a covenant, the gentile included.
Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 18, 2010, 07:18:29 PM Dan I'm so happy you love my response. I love it too. I love it because it isn't mine. Its from God. Note what your verse in Eph.2:12 says "---at that time--". But you limit your post to the gentile yet entitle your topic "Does the body of Christ have a covenant". Now just which one do you wish to talk about? The gentile was not incliuded in the covenant of the OT (but only as a proselyte) There was even a time when he was not incliuded in the bodiy of Christwhich is the church (or called out if you will). But now he is. Yes, the bodiy of Christ has a covenant, the gentile included. Hi duval , and where is your verse that the Body of Christ was given a Covenant when Eph 2:11 ,12 , 13 why there is NOT A COVENANT with the Body of Christ . #1 , Since God has many Covenants with Israel and it is called the New Covenant , Abrahamic , Davidic , and the Palestinian and given all to Israel !!! #2 , And if God had a Covenant with the Gentiles , what is THE NAME of this Covenant ?? #3 , If , you say New Covenant , you have just DISPOSED of the JEWS !!! #4 , And this is what Covenant Theology does !!! #5 , Or , if you say the New Covenant , than you become a PROSELYTE and a Jew . Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 18, 2010, 09:40:30 PM Hi Dan
I did not say the body of Christ was given a covenant at the time of Eph.2 God bless duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 20, 2010, 02:26:36 PM Hi Dan I did not say the body of Christ was given a covenant at the time of Eph.2 God bless duval Hi duval and take it where you want , but lets see your verses , or start your onn OP . DAN P Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 20, 2010, 06:09:11 PM Hi Dan
The body of Christ and the covenant for both Jew and Gentile began on the 1st Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead in Jerusalem. Clear enough for you to dig in to? God bless you in your search for truth, duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 21, 2010, 02:11:14 PM Hi Dan The body of Christ and the covenant for both Jew and Gentile began on the 1st Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead in Jerusalem. Clear enough for you to dig in to? God bless you in your search for truth, duval Hi duval , and the verse is found where in Acts ??? Good hunting , where you say that in Acts the Gentile's have a Covenant with God , for it contradicts Eph 2:12 and how will you explain this ??? Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 21, 2010, 06:32:27 PM Yes Dan, Acts chapter 2, and I didn't even have to search. Now, if you will study and search Peter's lesson that day you will find the answer to your 2nd question.
Good hunting indeed! Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 21, 2010, 08:04:05 PM Yes Dan, Acts chapter 2, and I didn't even have to search. Now, if you will study and search Peter's lesson that day you will find the answer to your 2nd question. Good hunting indeed! hI DUVAL and where is that verse that says , that , and I see why you did not give a verse , because there IN NOT ONE !!!!DAN P Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 21, 2010, 10:35:11 PM My, My Dan!
I did have better hope for you. I did say if you read bro. Peter's sermon you would find answers. Do you recall how in Acts 2 Peter said "this is that which was apoken of by Joel----" Did you not read the quotes from David? So I did give you verses didn't I Dan? Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 22, 2010, 01:59:56 PM My, My Dan! I did have better hope for you. I did say if you read bro. Peter's sermon you would find answers. Do you recall how in Acts 2 Peter said "this is that which was apoken of by Joel----" Did you not read the quotes from David? So I did give you verses didn't I Dan? Hi duval and your quote , " the Body of Christ and the covenant for both Jew and Gentile began on the 1 st Pentecost " and all I asked was a verse that LINKS Jews and Gentiles in Acts 2 ???? So , far you have NOT ADDED anything to me !!! dan p Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 22, 2010, 04:13:14 PM Well, OK Dan. How about this:"For the promise is unto kyou, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:39.
Most respectfully, duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 22, 2010, 08:25:23 PM Well, OK Dan. How about this:"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:39. Most respectfully, duval Hi duval , to know who Luke is speaking to and who the PROMISE is given to , read Acts 2:38 , then verse 30 ?? Like 2+2=4 , dan p Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 23, 2010, 10:31:30 AM Hi Dan
So far as gentiles are concerned, what link does vs. 30 have with vs. 39? Please give answer to vs.39. God bless, duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 23, 2010, 01:39:33 PM Hi Dan So far as gentiles are concerned, what link does vs. 30 have with vs. 39? Please give answer to vs.39. God bless, duval Hi duval and if read , it talks about Christ resurrection from verse 25-30 . Verse n39 is talking about The Jewish people that are scattered all over the Roman empire . Most believers most of the time FAIL to first LOOK AT ' #1 , CONTEXT #2 , GRAMMARICAL , ESPECIALLY THE VERB TENSE #3 , HISTORICAL EVENTS #4 , THE DISPENSATIONAL CONTEXT #5 , 2 Tim 2:15 #6 , and Phil 1:10 , to check the things that DIFFER dan p Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 23, 2010, 06:24:25 PM No problem Dan
"_ _ _ to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call." The same vers I already gave you Dan, now please deal with it. And, God bless you as you try- - - -duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 23, 2010, 07:46:48 PM No problem Dan "_ _ _ to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call." The same vers I already gave you Dan, now please deal with it. And, God bless you as you try- - - -duval Hi duval and I dealt with it a long time ago and I see that CONTEXT is not a top PRIORITY with you and that will stop growth , but be my guest . dan p Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 23, 2010, 07:58:53 PM No problem Dan "_ _ _ to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call." The same vers I already gave you Dan, now please deal with it. And, God bless you as you try- - - -duval Hi duval and JUST to help you , since you are a novice , turn and read DANIEL 9:7 !!! Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 23, 2010, 08:26:55 PM Hi Dan P
The "novice" has read Dan.9:7. Of course it was to the Jew. The OT law was ONLY to the Jew. In fact Dan.9:11 says "Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law,- - " Yet, such is different in Acts 2. The "afar off" and "as many as the Lord our God shall call" incliudes now the Gentile. Jesus said "Go into all nations" Matt.28 and Mark quotes Jesus saing "Go ye into all the world" and Luke 24 has Jesus the Christ saying "all nations". God bless, the "novice" Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 23, 2010, 08:47:04 PM Hi Dan P The "novice" has read Dan.9:7. Of course it was to the Jew. The OT law was ONLY to the Jew. In fact Dan.9:11 says "Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law,- - " Yet, such is different in Acts 2. The "afar off" and "as many as the Lord our God shall call" incliudes now the Gentile. Jesus said "Go into all nations" Matt.28 and Mark quotes Jesus saing "Go ye into all the world" and Luke 24 has Jesus the Christ saying "all nations". God bless, the "novice" Hi duval , and where do you see ETHNOS in Acts 2:39 ?? Huh ??? Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 28, 2010, 11:32:54 AM Hi Dan
Thats the point. The absence of "ethnos" in Acts 2:39 teaches the inclusion of the gentile and also the absence of "ethnos" in Acts 2:39 teaches the difference between it and Dan.9:7 where "ethnos" IS found. Search the scriptures Dan and free yourself of the "journals" etc. written by men. God bless and best wishes duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 28, 2010, 06:15:25 PM Hi Dan Thats the point. The absence of "ethnos" in Acts 2:39 teaches the inclusion of the gentile and also the absence of "ethnos" in Acts 2:39 teaches the difference between it and Dan.9:7 where "ethnos" IS found. Search the scriptures Dan and free yourself of the "journals" etc. written by men. God bless and best wishes duval Hi duval , and which bible do you use in studying the scripture ?? I see that yoU ADDED ETHNOS when it is not there , now that is Exception Addition , dan p Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 28, 2010, 07:02:30 PM If you refer to Daniel 9 the context makes cleare it refers to the Jew/Israel only. Not so with Acts 2:39.
God is love, duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 29, 2010, 02:28:45 PM If you refer to Daniel 9 the context makes cleare it refers to the Jew/Israel only. Not so with Acts 2:39. God is love, duval Hi duval , but you never answered why ETHNOS is not used in Acts 2:39 ??? You wrote , but will never explain , can you ?? It is always AMUSING to me how you say I am DESPERATE , but you can almost never answer a simple question like Acts 2:39 ??? Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 30, 2010, 01:13:42 PM Hi Dan
Ethnos is not in Acts 2:39 because the word limits to a nation, a people etc. The promise of Acts 2 knows no boundaries. Very very simple Dan. Respectfully, duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 30, 2010, 01:20:15 PM Hi Dan Ethnos is not in Acts 2:39 because the word limits to a nation, a people etc. The promise of Acts 2 knows no boundaries. Very very simple Dan. Respectfully, duval Hi duval , and it a good thing that you can never have scripture to prove that !!! Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 30, 2010, 06:19:18 PM Shame on you Dan. Anyone reading Acts 2:39 can clearlly see there are no limitations, AND YOU WANT SCRIPTURE??
Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 30, 2010, 07:29:00 PM Shame on you Dan. Anyone reading Acts 2:39 can clearlly see there are no limitations, AND YOU WANT SCRIPTURE?? Hi duval , and I am rolling up , when the SHAME is yours and COMPLETELY , not seeing the CONTEXT . #1 , The context for you , which you are ALWAYS AVOIDING in Acts 2:36 , is the House of Israel !!! #2 , Verse 37 is still Jewish !! #3 , Peter ( do I dare ask what is the context in verse 37 , JUST GO AHEAD AN ASK , guess I WILL ) the brethren ask , ( just go ahead and ask again , guess I will , WHAT IS THE CONTEXT ) and I believe it is Jewish . #4 , Then Peter tells the Jews to Repent and be Baptized , and how Jewish is that , but duval will not agree !!! #5 , Then Peter says that this PROMISE , of the Holy Spirit is unto the Jews that Peter was preaching to in verse 38 , BUT unto your Children . Only those with ears to HEAR will see that there is a Near view and a FAR VIEW as Joel 2:28 reveals . Notice what " afar " means in Jer 46:27-28 . dan p Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: nChrist on December 30, 2010, 08:08:25 PM Acts 2:39 KJV For the promise is unto you, and to your children (the Jewish people), and to all that are afar off (the Gentiles), even as many as the Lord our God shall call (whosoever will may come). Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: dan p on December 30, 2010, 09:04:27 PM Acts 2:39 KJV For the promise is unto you, and to your children (the Jewish people), and to all that are afar off (the Gentiles), even as many as the Lord our God shall call (whosoever will may come). Hi nChrist and I have posted enough that anyone can see and make their decision and check the CONTEXT . Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: duval on December 30, 2010, 09:05:21 PM Thank you nChrist, I could not have said it better.
Respectfully, duval Title: Re: Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ?? Post by: nChrist on December 31, 2010, 04:28:03 AM Hi nChrist and I have posted enough that anyone can see and make their decision and check the CONTEXT . Yes the context is pretty simple: The Promise is to the Jews, the Gentiles, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. There's an obvious reason why the promise was not limited to "you and your children". There's also an obvious reason why "and to all that are afar off" was specifically added. You're right - the context couldn't be more simple. All that the Lord our God shall call does include all - not limited to the Jews. Anyone can obviously see this Verse applies to ALL. Every Bible Scholar and commentator I can find agrees completely - ALL - the human race - whosoever will may come. |