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Hi to all , and if Paul was saved under the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom , then by that definition , Paul have to be Water Baptized !!

Acts 9:18 , say that Paul was Baptized ?

Was it Water or Dry ??

 If Paul was saved by Grace , why is he Baptized ??

 And if by Water , why have another Apostle ??

 Hi to all , and the is what Acts 9:17 is saying to all .

 #1 , The context does not have water in it , so his  Baptism is not with water !

 #2 , The text says that when Ananias put his hands on Paul two things happened to Paul .

 #3 , Paul received his sight !

 #4 , Paul was then  "  filled with Holy Spirit  "  power !!

 #5 , In Acts 9:6 , Paul was indwelt  with the Holy Spirit as 1 Cor 12:3 reveals !

 #6 , Here in Acts 9:17 , Paul is  "  FILLED WITH HOLY SPIRIT  which is different than the Indwelling and Placing us into the Body of Christ  1 Cor 12:13 .

 #7 , The filling with the Holy is for Paul to fulfill his commission in Acts 9:15 and what all Christians are to strive for , the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives , for service and Maturity , 2 Tim 2:15 and Phil 1:10  to discover the things that Differ .

Hi Dan P

Where in scripture is it found that sins are washed in Holy Spirit baptism?

God bless,
duval

Duval,

Not certain exactly what you are asking...but maybe this will help.

Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 1:8
"I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Luke 3:16
John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Acts 1:5
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Acts 11:16
"And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ' John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

now I am positive that is not all the references there are to the Holy Spirit and baptism, but that was simply doing a quick search for the phrase "Holy Spirit" and getting the verses that speak of being baptized in, or with the Holy Spirit.

Hi Dan P

We can conclude then that no scripture teaches sins are washed in Holy Spirit bapism, Right? 

Now, may I ask, does the scripture teach sins are washed when "filled" with the Holy Spirit?

God bless,
duval

Hey Duval..

I would have to say 'no you can not conclude that there is no Scripture that teaches sins are washed in Holy Spirit Baptism' as I have brought out many verses that specifically mention baptism by the Holy Spirit.

Hi Jerry

Many scriiptures on Holy Spirit baptism yes, BUT where is one which says your sins were washed in Holy Spirit baptism or your sins being washed when filled with the Spirit?
Best wishes,
duval

Really...

There is not a verse that says that Jesus Christ baptizes either.

Really....

You do not get the correlation between baptism and washing of sins and such?

Acts 22:16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'
for one.

1 John 1:7 tells us what it is that cleanses us "and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

And as we already know Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one as it is.

So what are you actually missing here?

Goodevening Jerry

You wrote:  "Really---There is not a verse that says Jesus Christ baptizes either."

Jerry I'm not sure I know what your intent is here but I'll approach it from thee angles, water,Holy Spirit and fire baptism.

First, water:  "When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and basptized more diciples than John, ( Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Second, Holy Spirit baptism:  "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall basptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire"  Matt.4:11.  Have you ever noticed in scripture that Holy Spirit baptism is a PROMISE AND NOT A COMMAND  and a promise cannot be obeyed but a command can?  Whereas water baptism is a command!  You mentioned Acts 22:16. in reference to Paul.  Was he not told to arise and be baptized to have his sins washed away?  Wasn't that a command?  I think so.  Further he was commanded to arise and be baptized.  Since when did one in the scripture have to arise to receive Holy Spirit baptism?  Was it so in Acts 2 or 10???
Third: Fire baptism:  I don't think we need to go there in this thread.


God bless, duval

Duval,

I am really not certain what circle you are trying to go around.

You are trying to say that the Holy Spirit does not wash away the sins, but yet you have also not said what supposedly does either.

Hi Jerry

Excuse me if I have not made myself clear.  I am saying that no  scripture teaches our sins are washed away by Holy Spirit baptism.  I am saying that no scripture teaches our sins are washed away by being filled with the Spirit.  What I am saying is that sins are washed away at the time of water baptism, Acts 22:16.

God bless you in your study of God's Word.
duval

Unfortunately many confuse that which is spiritual with that which is earthly.

1Pe 3:21  The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Joh 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

The baptism with earthly, physical water is the putting away of the filth of the flesh. It is earthly and not spiritual washing. It is the spirit that needs cleaned not the physical body. This is exactly what Jesus was speaking of with Nicodemus and also of the parable of the cup with the Pharisees.

So are we to conclude that when Peter at the household of Cornelius asked: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized---"  Acts 10:48, it was because their flesh was dirty and they needed a bath????

God bless,
duval

 Hi duval , and I have not seen one , or have you ?  Where did you hear that and what verse did they use ?? dan p

I never said that we are not to baptize with water nor that it is not mentioned in scripture. What I am saying is that scripture speaks of two different baptisms. One is physical and the other is spiritual. Unfortunately many confuse the two as is being seen here in this thread. The physical baptism is not the baptism that saves.

Hi Mr. Rogers

I can read of at three baptisms recorded in the NT.  Holy Spirit, fire and water.  Paul said by inspiration that by the time he wrote there was only one baptism, Eph.4:5.

God bless,
duval

Exactly, there is only one baptism that saves.

Hi Mr. Rogers

I can count at least 3 baptisms in the scripture:  1.  Holy Spirit;  2.  Fire;  and 3. water.  By the time Paul wrote Ephesians there was only 1 ( one ) baptism left, Eph.4:5.

God bless,
duval

You already said this once. We were talking about salvation, the washing away of sins and not the burning of dross.

Hi Mr.Rogers

I count at least 3 baptisms in the NT:  1.  Holy Spirit;  2.  Fire;  and 3.  Water.  By the time Paul wrote Eph. 4:5 there was only one baptism left and the baptism of fire was still future following the judgment.  The  baptism that saves us ( Jesus saves us but thru this baptism) is the baptism that is to last till the end of the world.

God bless, duval

Hi Mr.Rogers

Regretfully I wrote my post three times before I realized we had come to the end of the page.  I'll figure out how to work this yet.

Now that I'm back on track, I understand from my study of the scriptiure that Holy Spirit baptism is past, fire baptism yet future leaving only water baptism and that being necessary to ones salvatiion.

Thank you again for enduring my 3 repeated posts.
duval

Hi Dan

To be honest I thought I got it from you but evidentliy not and I therefore apologise as I will not knowningly misrepresent any man.

God bless,--duval

Physical water baptism is not and never has been that which saves. As Jesus tole Nicodemus and the other Pharisees, it is the inward cleaning that counts and not the outward. When I said that scripture speaks of two different baptisms I didn't clarify that I meant in regards to water baptism. One is that of the physical, earthly water (the like figure) and that of spiritual water (living water). Many people confuse these two.

Hi Mr Rogers

Am I correct in understanding that you agree there is only one baptism today?  If so may I ak, which is it?  Holy Spirit?  Fire? Water?  I believe the "one baptism" of Eph.4:5 to be water.

God bless,
duval

As I already said, Physical water baptism is not and never has been that which saves. That type of baptism does not cleanse us "from all unrighteousness." It is Jesus through the Holy Spirit that does that.

1Co 6:11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1Jn 1:9  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Think about it. What does the word baptize with the Holy Ghost mean? The word baptize means to immerse, to wash.

I believe that the one Baptism is by the Holy Spirit of God when a person is truly saved - born again from above - and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. At best, water baptism is an outward testimony before men of their acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. The real work is done by God - not men, and God doesn't need earthly water.


In this day and age, the Holy Spirit of God is given to those who truly believe, and the Holy Spirit of God seals the heart of the new believer as a purchased possession of Jesus Christ.

Hi Mr. Rogers

You wrote today, Dec.17 that  "---water baptism is not and never has been that which saves."  Herein lies our difference!  You also wrote: "It is Jesus through the Holy Spirit that does that."  I agree with that statement but not that it is Jesus through the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT  that does that.  There is a difference as you  surely can see.

You quoted  I Cor.6:9-11.  If your intent was to show that the Corinthians were "washed", "justified" and "sanctified" by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it doesn't say that either, does it?  It simply says it was "by the Spirit of our God.  I agree with that, but it does NOT say baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Next you quoted 1 Jn.1:9 but the entire chapter is silent on the baptism of the Spirit.

Yes, I agree the word baptize means to "immerse, wash".  So it did witih the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 1:4 and so also it does in Acts 10:47 when Peter asked "can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized-----?

Amen!

Hi again Mr.Rogers

Several scriptures given but did you note before sending them that not a single one of the says anything about Holy Spirit Baptism saving us. 

Very true Paul said he didn't baptize many.  WHO ( in water baptism ) does the baptizing is not of consequence,  but what is of consequence is WHAT baptism and WHY its performed. 

In one of the passages you offered, I Cor.1 Paul said "Christ sent me not to baptize" yet he said he did baptize the household of Stephanan and Crispus and Gaius.  Now what shall we do with Paul for that?

   God bless as you search----duval

Hi duval,

First of all I didn't give the scripture of 1 Cor 1. That was nChrist that did.


Yes, in fact it does. "but ye are washed" ...  "by the Spirit of our God".


Now you are trying to split hairs. The "Spirit of our God" is indeed the Holy Spirit.



I quoted this verse for the reason that it says that He "cleanse us from all unrighteousness." This is the washing(baptism) and note who is doing it.

Hello Mr. Rogers

Regardles of who introducd I Cor.6:9-11 into out discussion the fact remains it does not say "baptism of the Holy Spirit".  It simply said "by the spirit of our God."  Some make the mistake that everytime they see the word "Spirit" it means "baptism of the Holy Spirit".  Not so.

No, I'm not trying to split hairs nor do I wish to or have to.  You wrote: "the Spirit of our God' is indeed the Holy Spirit."  To that I agree.  But there are different administrations or gifts of the Spirit are there not?   Thus everytime we see "Spirit" it does not always follow it means "baptism of the Spirit."

As for as I Jn.19 which you memtioned you have yet to find where the passage involves the "baptism of the Holy Spirit"  The words "blood" and "cleanses" are in the context but you have no passage ANYWHERE in the NT teaching  that sins are washed or cleansed in Holy Spirit baptism.  If you are holding back on us, please bring them forth.

I have given you clear scripture but you choose to reject it. I will leave the rest in God's hands.

Hi Mr Rogers

I believe everything is always in God's hands.  What would you suggest is the clearest, strongest scripture you have presented as Biblical proof that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the "one" baptism and that it "saves"?

Thank you, and God bless,
duval

I'll just put it bluntly and state that water baptism has never saved a single person, nor has it ever washed a single sin away. It's a symbolic ritual by man. One could be baptized hundreds of times and never be saved. As a contrast, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is forever, and God knows them that are His because He lives in them. The one baptism is not water.

Hi nChrist

Thanks for being so blunt, but it did knot add a whit to the truth of the subject.  I agree the "indwelling of the Spirit" is to the end of time but NO WHERE  in your Bible or mine does inspiration say that the "indwelling of the Spirit" and the "baptism of the Spirit" are the same.  Jesus said "search the scripture for in them ye think ye have life".  Its as needful for this subject as for any other.

QUESTION:  was the baptism of the Holy Spirit a promise or command?
QUESTION:  was water baptism a promise or command?

I appreciate bluntness and straightforwardness and do employ such when needed.  I trust I did not detect a spark of anger in your bluntness.  God is love---God bless, duval

No anger. You're either not paying attention or you don't understand plain and blunt Scripture that has been given to you. I'm not going to argue about what's already been given to you, so no more questions to me. You've been given the answers, and they remain the answers. Go back and read them carefully. The last one almost spelled it out for you in a way that I didn't think could be missed.

Hi nChrist

True, you've come up with some answers and some had scriptures attatched but none gave truth to the subject discussed.  I DO assure you I give attention to your posts as all others.  Further, while an old man I yet retain a clear understanding of what my Lord, Jesus the Christ and His apostles taught on the subject.

I shall now repeat the questions I asked you which for some reason you refused to give answer to:
QUESTION:  Was Holy Spirit baptism a promise or command?   MY answer is: promise!

QUESTION:  Was water baptism a promise  or command?  MY answer is:  command!

In view of what you said in your last post what our beloved Peter said is most appropriate now:  "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:  and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"  I Pet.3:15.
God bless you in your search, duval


g

hI Dan

I didn't get your point, can you come at it another way?

duval

 Hi duval , and the point is that there is a  NEAR  VIEW  and  a  FAR VIEW .   

 The near view is like Acts 1:6  ,  "  LORD , wilt thou at bthis time  RESTORE  the Kingdom to Israel ??

 He did not restone it because they , killed their Messiah !!

 Acts 3:19-20 , that  "  IF  "   they would Repent , then He would send Jesus  BACK , BUT weknow that they did not repent .

 So , Israel  has been set aside Rom 11:25 , until the  FULNESS of the Gentile be come in .

 The  FAR VIEW  is when Jesus comes back and sets up His Kingdom , Matt 24:3-31 , dan p

Hi Dan

Thanks for changing the wording on your point.  I shall not respond at this time for I just wrote for your consideration when I understand the kingdom came.  If you didn't get it let me know.

 Hi duval , and I know what the Kingdom of Heaven means and maybe you can do a OP   Dispensation/OIKONOMIA  and lets see what you really  KNOW ??

Hi Dan

I know what the kingdom is from reading the scripture.  If thats not sufficient none can make it.

God bless,
Duval

If water baptism saves, then I have been saved at least once every day since birth.

If water baptism saves, then the Bible is incorrect and the thief on the cross is NOT in heaven with Jesus.

If you are trying to say that water baptism is the state we are in now, then John the Baptist was wrong in Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

If we are not baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit then Mark 1:8 is wrong.
"I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

John 1:33 as well
"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'

I think even you have mentioned Acts 1:5
"for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

Look at Acts 19:4
"Paul said, " John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.""
In that verse alone we could not get a clearer picture that the water baptism is a symbolic gesture.  We know that John baptized with water, but here we see that it is a baptism of repentance, and this is confirmed in Mark 1:5
"And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins."
It is quite apparent that the physical act of baptism is purely a symbolic gesture for a 'heart change' of repentance.

So a question then:
What Baptism was Jesus talking about in Mark 10:39?
"They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized."

Hello Jerry:

Your post was not addressed to anyone so I shall take the liberty of giving answer but to your question.

"So then a question:
What baptism was Jesus talking about in Mark 10:39? 

"They said unto Him, "We are able", and Jesus said unto them, "The cup that I drink ; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized."

In a recent post I wrote there were at least (PLEASE NOTE THAT WORD LEAST) 3 BAPTISMS IN THE NT.  I said that because I felt this question would arise and sure enough you have brought it up.  Those baptisms are 1. Holy Spirit;  2.  water and 3. fire.  Now you ask about Mark 10:39  As we study the text, to me at least, its a baptism of suffering.  Note the context speaks of suffering.  Things having to do with disciple ship, shame, rejection, mocking, scourging the cross etc.  Jesus aske them can you do this?  Are you willing to drink this cup I drink."

God Bless
duval

A baptism of suffering....so there are now 4 baptisms mentioned in the NT?

The point being that I agree that there are multiple baptism mentioned in the Bible, and more specifically the NT.
There is the Baptism by/of the Holy Spirit which is also described as cleansing of sins, or salvation.
There is water baptism, which is a symbolic gesture performed by individuals to do in accordance to the obedience of Jesus Christ.  While something we should do, it gives us nothing spiritually, it is simply a gesture to follow in Jesus footsteps.
Then fire baptism, which I do not think is being contested.

Hello Jerry:

Will you please tell us where Holy Spirit baptism is "described as cleansing of sins, or salvation"? 

Respectfully, duval

Duval,

That's already been given to you in Scriptures, but here's one again as a reminder:

nChrist

Thanks for that scripture and I believe every word of it.  Note please it reads "and renewing of the Holy Spirit--"  NOT BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!  Some think each time they see the word "Spirit" it means Holy Spirit, but there are different"gifts" of the Spirit.

Thus I still ask, and rightly so, where is the passage stating sins are cleansed in the Holy Spirit, or described as Jerry said "salvation",

God bless you as you search, and always remember, God is love.
duval

Read the entire verse. Did you happen to notice "washing of regeneration". You should be able to put 2 and 2 from there and get 4.

This is the exact same argument that the Corinthians used and that Paul chastised them for in 1Co 12. In arguing about gifts they overlooked the primary one, the most important gift of all and that is the gift of salvation. As Paul said, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized".

Hi nChrist: 

About Tit.3:5 and the "washing of regenerattion", as with the "rrenewing of the Holy Spirit" nothing is said about the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" in the verse.  What was said about the "renewing" is  also true of the "washing", and nothing said about the baptism of the Holy Spirit there.  In fact the "washing" and the "renewing" are two different things as evidenced by the word "and" which joines them together.  Try again.

No, you just need to read what's already been given to you. The Scripture ties everything together for you in an extremely easy and to the point manner. If you can't see it, I doubt that anyone can help you. You're on your own, and I won't be wasting any more time trying to help you.

Hi Mr. Rogers

Two things about I Cor.12:13 without advancing further on it.  1.  In the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Jesus IS the one doing the baptizing.  Here the Spirit is said to "by" although some translations use the word "in".  Whichever word used ( by or in ) Jesus is the dministrator of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, the text says "all" received it.  Would it be safe to assume such?

I see there is a renewed interest in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, so, perhaps the stage is set again to ask 2 questions asked before but recieving no answers.

l.  Is the baptism of the Spirit a command or a promise?

2. Is water baptism a command or promise

As always, I wish you all well---duval

Yes, Jesus is the one doing the baptizing and He is doing so with the Holy Spirit. You may try to argue that it doesn't say Holy even though it is quite evident that it is indeed the Holy Spirit. You would simply being arguing for the sake of arguing and doing so with out basis.

I Cor.12:13 is speaking to all believers so scripture does say all so yes it is indeed safe, not to assume, but rather to take it as fact.

As for your two questions they are irrelevant to the fact that the Holy Spirit does in fact baptize and it is a baptism that washes away sin.

Hi nChrist

I regret your attitude is that you have wasted your time.  Seems you were looking for an "out" and convientliy found it- - - the same "out" all have used when unable to answer the issue in point. 

God bless, and I wish you well,
duval

Hi Mr. Roger

We agree on some things, praise God!

We agree that Jesus is the administrator of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We also agree I Cor.12:13 includes "all" in the "one body."

Thank you.

I believe the scripture teaches that only the apostles were baptized in the Holy Spirit, and that it occured but ONCE. 

Yoiu have said the two questions I've asked both you and nChrist are not relevant to the subject.  I do, and ask you to answer them.  I have.

Neither Tit.3:5 nor I Cor.12:13 teaches that Holy Spirit baptism "washes away sin".  I have shown that by calling your attention to the fact that  neither passage memtions Holy Spirit baptism.


This is said to be a debate forum but a real one is when it is a "one-on-one!  I therefore invite kyou or nChrist
or JIerry or James to engage in one.  This incliudes Dam P as well.
God bless all, duval











L

Actually there were seven baptisms. Between food pantries and family events at this time of year I really don't have the time to go into this in detail right now but there are seven mentioned.

Hi Mr. Roger

Thats why I said "at least three" and named them as they were more likely to be the ones at issue.  AND thanks for your imput regarding additions ones.

In Chrisstian love,
duval

See you continue to try and ask these questions as if you are some sort of robot, and yet there is not a settlement on the premise of your questions to begin with.  Now you have expanded your mentions by stating it is Jesus administering the baptism.  And it is the Holy Spirit which Jesus is using to baptize....which means the Holy Spirit is washing away the sins...which even when you want to try and argue the point, the Holy Spirit is Jesus is God, they are three one, so the point is irrelevant in truth.
I can and believe have answered
1) Promise, because the Bible says that if we believe in the Gospel of Jesus, that God will cleanse us of our sin.
2) Neither, to state it is a command would indicate that there is a consequence for failure to act. 

I suppose it does appear as a "robot" when my 2 questions have been asked repedeatly and receive no answers.  To your credit you tried in your last post and I shall attend to your answers.

In your post # 59 you wrote: "Now you have expanded your mentions by stating it is Jesus administering the baptism."  If by "baptism" you mean Holy Spirit baptism that is correct.  John the Baptist said in Matt.3:11:  "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:  he shall baptize you witih the Holy Ghost, and fire:"  Note please Jerry, Jesus is the administrator and it is also a promise! 

Now, to your answers to my 2 questions.  You wrote: "Ican and believe have answered."  Lets see if you really have.

MY  FIRST QUESTION WAS:  ''IS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM A PROMISE OR COMMAND?"
Your answer: " Promise, because Bible says that if we believe in the Gospel of Jesus, that  God  will cleanse us of  our sin.
My answer :  True idt is a promise.  HKowever the remainder of your answerhas nothing to do with our subject of the baptism of the Holy pidrit.  Yes, Holy pirit baptism is a "promise"  AND A PROMISE CANNOT BE OBEYED."

MY SECOND QUESTION WAS: is water baptism a command or promise?






yOU ANSWERED:"Neither, to state it is is a command would indicate that there is a coknsequence for failure to act."

The Bible ansewer is found in cts 10:47,48- - - JK esus said "efarch the scriptures"---duva

Hi Jerry and all

I apologize as I am having problems with my key board or something.

God bless,
duval

Yea you will need to retype this one...


I was able to make out the rest fairly easily enough...but since this one had a verse it in...I did not want to "speculate" on what verse it was.

Hi Jerry

Yes, I will re do my last question which was:
IS WATER BAPTISM A COMMAND OR PROMISE?

 Your answser was: ''Neither, to state it is a command would indicate that there is a consequence for failure to act.

Jerry, my answer to yours is:  water baptism IS a command to be obeyed, and I cite as proof Acts 10:47,48.  Please read that.  You are right in saying that if a command it "would indicate that there is a consequence for failiure to act."

Thus Holly Spirit baptism was a PROMISE TO BE RECEIVED ( MATT.3:11) and water baptism is a "COMMAND TO BE OBEYED."

 

Now, to your answers to my 2 questions.  You wrote: "Ican and believe have answered."  Lets see if you really have.

MY  FIRST QUESTION WAS:  ''IS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM A PROMISE OR COMMAND?"
Your answer: " Promise, because Bible says that if we believe in the Gospel of Jesus, that  God  will cleanse us of  our sin.
My answer :  True idt is a promise.  HKowever the remainder of your answerhas nothing to do with our subject of the baptism of the Holy pidrit.  Yes, Holy pirit baptism is a "promise"  AND A PROMISE CANNOT BE OBEYED."

MY SECOND QUESTION WAS: is water baptism a command or promise?






yOU ANSWERED:"Neither, to state it is is a command would indicate that there is a coknsequence for failure to act."

The Bible ansewer is found in cts 10:47,48- - - JK esus said "efarch the scriptures"---duva



 Hi duval and you will need to read Acts 1:4 and 5 !!

 They were commanded to wait and  NOT  depart from Jerusalem , but wait for the Promise of the Father , which , ye have heard of  ME .

 And   "  IF   "  here is your word  "  IF "   duval , in the Subjunctive  Mood  , of Possibility , they would be Baptized with the Holt Spirit not many days hence .

 Acts 10: 47 and 48 tell us  what the answer is duval ???












[/quote]

Hi Dan:
The command of Acts 1:4 is "WAIT".  Wait for what? The "PROMISE".  The promise of what? The baptism of the Holy Spirit, thats WHAT!  Vs.5.  Read your Bible.  You CANNOT OBEY A PROMISE. Jesus was to baptize with the Hloly Spirit and DID!  Matt.3:11.

Man was to baptize with water.  Can you prove other wise with the scripture??

I'll go one step further:  Holy Spirit baptism fell upon ONLY the apostles of Jesus the Christ.  Can you prove otherwise with the scripture?  That means no man incliuding you has been baptized with the Holy Spirit,  but look out for that the fire baptism!

God bless,
duval

Hi Dan:
The command of Acts 1:4 is "WAIT".  Wait for what? The "PROMISE".  The promise of what? The baptism of the Holy Spirit, thats WHAT!  Vs.5.  Read your Bible.  You CANNOT OBEY A PROMISE. Jesus was to baptize with the Hloly Spirit and DID!  Matt.3:11.

Man was to baptize with water.  Can you prove other wise with the scripture??

I'll go one step further:  Holy Spirit baptism fell upon ONLY the apostles of Jesus the Christ.  Can you prove otherwise with the scripture?  That means no man incliuding you has been baptized with the Holy Spirit,  but look out for "fire" baptism".

God bless,
duval

 Hi  duval`, and MISTAKE #1 , is that you always seem to leave the  OP .

 #2 ,  When Cornelius was saved , he also received 10:45 , the  "  GIFT  OF THE  HOLY  SPIRIT "   are you wrong ?

 #3 , Would   YOU  like  Rethink  that   one , THAT   ONLY  the  apostles , received the  "  gift of the Holy  Spirit " ????

 And here is what you should know  , is the  "  FIRE  "   for  Jews  or Gentiles ???

 Acts 2:4 , what is the filling of the Holy Spirit ????

 So , what is the  FIRE ,   since you say  " look out for the fire ???

Thank you for re-typing that one.  does help.

Ok now let me ask you something....also given conversation with Dan.

What is the consequence of not being baptized (water)?

What do you define as Holy Spirit baptism, since you seem to differentiate that from being baptized with the Holy Spirit?

Hi Dan - - - I only respond to what you currently write.  If any one is off the OP it has to be you.
Cornelius did receive the gift of the Holy Spirit BUT note it was "poured" out on them.  A difference? Yes!  And will you please tell us the purpose of the Holy Spirit at Cornelius house in Acts 10,11??

I never said the apostles only received the "gift of the Holy Spirit".  I DID say the apostles were the ONLIY ones to receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit."  The "filling of the Holy Spirit" in Acts 2:4 was part of the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" on Pentecost which ONLY the apostles received.

John the Baptist said the "chaff" would be cast into the fire, Matt.3 and that Jesus Himself will do it.  Please read and study the close of Matt.25 for that.
God bless,
duval

Hi Jerry:  In response to your post #68, Dec.29 2010
You asked: "what is the consequence of not being baptized (water)?"
My answer:  Hell.  Mark 16:15,16.

You asked:  "What do you define as Holy Spirit baptism, since you seem to differentiate that from being baptized with the Holy Spirit."
My answer:They are the same.  I regret if I somehow left the inference they were different.

God bless,
duval

Hi nChrist
I disagree witih your interpretation of the Spirit in the passages you submitted.  I DO however agree with your affirmation:"Not a single pserson has ever been saved by water baptism, works, or obedience to the law."

Respectfully,
duval

Sounds to me like a person going in a circle and not getting anywhere. Not saved by water baptism yet a person goes to hell without water baptism. (Which the latter is against scripture.)




Tell me duval, who is the spirit spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12:13?

What does 'being baptized with the Holy Spirit' entail?

You disagree with Scripture, not my interpretation of it. The Scriptures speak for themselves. Read Verse 13 again. All you need to know about the one baptism is there in plain, simple, and unquestionable terms.


Hint: the baptism isn't by a man, and there is no water involved.

If you assume Spirit in Eph. 4:4 means baptism of the Spirit you assume too much.  A study of John chapters 13-16 will show Jesus was speaking only to His aposstles and He promosed to send to them the Comforter, the Spirit to guide them into all truth.  This the Spirit did.You say Eph.4 does not memtion water baptism.  TRUE.  But NEITHER does it say Holy Spirit baptism.

Duval,

You contradict yourself here.....

To nChris you state

but earlier to me you stated just the opposite

Roger also pointed out this error.

But let me address something here...you say that if you are not baptized by water, you will go to hell....where did the thief go that was on the cross with Jesus?  Or how about this, how many of the disciples are we told were baptized?