ChristiansUnite Forums

Hi to all , and even some Dispensationalist believe that Paul was saved under the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom .

 Of , course I say to those believers , how do they prove that ??

 And is there anyone that believes that the Lord preached the Gospel of the Kingdom to Paul ??

  And I say that he was saved by Grace !!!   

 What say you ???

I concur...he was saved just as we all are saved....by Grace.

Hi all

True, we are all saved by grace, Eph.2:8,9.  Now, the question is how are we saved by grace?

God is love,
duval

At the other end of the "parenthesis," a similar question can be posed: Will the 144,000 be saved by the presentation of Paul's Gospel or by the Kingdom Gospel? They'll be heading into the Millennium, but they'll be coming out of the dispensation of Grace.

Don't mean to hijack the thread. Just thought this might serve to emphasize the reality of the problem.

After muddying the waters with the new question about the 144,000, I'll answer the original question.

Since Paul introduced the Grace Gospel (and referred to it as "his" Gospel), he must have been saved by the Kingdom Gospel. In other words, he immediately recognized Christ as the Messiah.

It is equally obvious, however, that he considered his future home to be in Heaven, as do those who receive the Grace Gospel.

I think that you're treading far into hyper-dispensationalism.

No man has ever been Saved by the Law or works in any dispensation.

Salvation has always been by the Grace of God in all dispensations.

Faith in God in all dispensations has been accounted to men as righteousness.

Was David Saved? How about after his major sins?

Romans 4:5-25 KJV  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.  6  Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,  7  Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.  8  Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.  9  Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.  10  How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.  11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:  12  And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.  13  For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.  14  For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:  15  Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.  16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,  17  (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.  18  Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.  19  And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:  20  He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;  21  And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.  22  And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.  23  Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;  24  But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;  25  Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Sorry. You'll have to be more specific.

Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed, but the form of that faith has changed. Under the law, a Jew or Jewish proselyte was justified as he identified himself with the nation of Israel as the nation anticipated the appearance of the Messiah and the establishment of His earthly kingdom. (John 4:22b)

Now, there is neither Jew nor Greek. Justification occurs when the individual places his faith entirely in the crosswork.

  Hi friends

Lets return to the thrust of this thread,  the saving gospel of Jesus.  Jesus, the Christ said "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved--------"  Paul states the gospel he preached came not by man but rather by the revelation of Jesus Christ ( Gal.1:12 ).  He said the Gospel he preached which he received from Jesus was  "certified" ( Gal.1:11 ).  He said said there was not another gospel and if any said there was it was "perverted"  ( Gal. 1:7-9 ).  I shall take my stand with the "certified" gospel and urge you to do the same.

God bless
duval

Salvation was definitely of the Jews but the justification was not because they were a Jew for scripture tells us that justification is and always has been of faith in God and His promises of salvation.

 Hi BillyShope , I can be sure that it is not by Grace as we will be Departed/Rapture .

 By Matt 24:13 , they will have to endure to the end of the Tribulation and what they will be preaching will be the Gospel of the Kingdom as it says in verse 14 , and this is what Jesus preached in Matt4:17 .

Hi Dan

The "rapture" is something else I've never read read in the scripture.

duval

 Hi duval , and it is found in 1 Cor 15:51-58 .

 In  1 Thess 4:13:18 .

 In 2  Thess 2:1-2

 In  Gal 1:4

 A nd these are the main ones but there are other proofs and the correct word is not Rapture , but DEPARTURE  , in  2 Thess 2:3  , for falling away .

Hi Dan

Well I knew the word "rapture" was an anti-scriptural word along with the doctrines frequently associated with the word.

God bless
duval

 Hi BillyShope , and I disagree with the Acts 28 position in many ways and this is one instance .

 Though I agree on some points , here , when any one says that Paul was saved under the Gospel of the Kingdom , they never produce any verses or verse .

 All agree that something  HAPPENED in Acts 9:6 , but all do not agree on how Paul was saved !!

 In verse 6 , what gospel did Jesus preach to Saul ???

 I can say that it was not the Gospel of the Kingdom !!!

 And the explanation is in verse 6 and in 1 Cor 12:3 , yes it is  !!!

 Rom 1:1  and  1 Tim 1:15 and 16  and  1 Cor 15:8  attest to that conclusion .

 And  A question that comes up ,   IF  Saul was saved under the Kingdom program  where is Paul  , with a verse  , where is Paul  TRANSFERRED  FROM BEING  A  KINGDOM  SAINT  to being  A  GRACE  SAINT ???


 Here is another question , if he was a Kingdom saint  , where is Saul/Paul  baptized ??   They never have produced a verse yet and I have posted this same question on various forums ,  dan p

All this stuffing about differeces between a "kingdom saint" and a "grace saint" is just that, false teaching stuffing.  When Paul was told to be baptized in Acts 22:16 was he responding as a kingdom or grace saint?  No wonder the atheists laugh!!!

God bless,
duval

 Hi duval and let me tell you why Atheists laugh as you say .

 In 1 Cor 2:14 , But the  NATURAL man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God , for they are  FOOLISHNESS  unto him ,   NEITHER   can he know them , because they they are  SPIRITUALLY  DISCERNED .

  Now let see what 2 Peter 3:15-16 saiys to those who are not Pauline .

 In verse 15 , Peter calls Paul beloved also accordingto the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you and I believe that it is the book of Hebrews .

 Then in verse 16 Peter says that the things that Paul writes are  HARD TO UNDERSTAND  .

  Which they that are  Unlearned !

  Which are Unstable !!

 Twist or  Wrest the scripture unto their own  Destruction .

 If you understood the  IMPLICATION  , of  when he Paul was a Kingdom saint and when he then changed to a Grace saint  and your answer shows that you do not understand what I have written .

 We all have the right to be wrong , the best to you , dan p

 

Hello Dan

Peter said "some" of Pauls writings are "hard" to be understood, NOT ALL!  Its uninspired man going around preaching about "kingdom saints" and "grace saints" etc; etc, terms never used in God's holy word that causes division and atheists to laugh.

I say the "unlearned". "unstable", who "twist" or "wrest" s cripture to their own "destruction" are those who preach such things as "kingdom saints" as opposed to "grace saints", etccccccc.  Further, can you please tell me when and where Paul changed from a "kingdom" to a "grace" saint? 

 Hi duval , and even some good dispensationalist  will not answer , nor can answer that question , because it  NEVER happened , that's why !!

 In Rev 5:8 the ones saved and died in the Tribulation through the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom  ( MATT 24:13-14   )  are called Saints !!

 In  1 Cor 1:2  we are  Called/Chosen/Elected  to be saints by the Preaching of the Gospel of the Grace of God ???

 dan p

Hi Dan

If I understand you correctly I agree with the bulk of your last post.  The gospel was preached to every creature under heaven during Paul's lifetime.  There were saints before Jesus death.

Have a good day----duval