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Since St. Pat's day will be coming up, maybe any knowledge here 'bout who he was, what he did??

We was a slave to the Irish, who ended up bringing Christ to the land.

Stephen R. Lawhead just came out with a great novel about him. Historical, it isn't the best, but if you like Celtic Fantasy/Historical Fiction, it is a good book!

What an awesome modern (sorta) Joseph story!

There are heaps of storys about St Patrick - so many that they can't all be true, and maybe none are, but its pretty much impossible to separate fact from fiction.  About the only things that are certain are that he wasn't Irish - he was from Wales or some other part of western Britain, and that he was a major figure in spreading Christianity across what became the cradle of Christianity in Northern Europe.

He was one of those roman catholics.

Since he was around way before Rome exerted its authority over the British Isles, that's a pretty daft thing to say.  You can call the early Celtic Church Orthodox if you like, but to call it RCC is highly misleading if not false.

I still think he was one of those roman catholics.

Yes, well, enough said really.  ::)

Yes, really

<:)))><

Popular myth(?) has it that St. Patty chased all the snakes out of Erin.  Another myth (not heard so often here in the lower-48) is that St. Patty passed through Alaska.  Why do they say that?  Because there are no snakes in Alaska!
(http://www.gifs.net/animate/snaker.gif)

Sweet Annahavil, our young Irish lass should have some input to this… Anna!  Where are you???

I think you are wrong on your history ebia at least if the following article excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia is accurate.

St. Patrick

Apostle of Ireland, born at Kilpatrick, near Dumbarton, in Scotland, in the year 387; died at Saul, Downpatrick, Ireland, 17 March, 493.

He had for his parents Calphurnius and Conchessa. The former belonged to a Roman family of high rank and held the office of decurio in Gaul or Britain. Conchessa was a near relative of the great patron of Gaul, St. Martin of Tours. Kilpatrick still retains many memorials of Saint Patrick, and frequent pilgrimages continued far into the Middle Ages to perpetuate there the fame of his sanctity and miracles.

In his sixteenth year, Patrick was carried off into captivity by Irish marauders and was sold as a slave to a chieftan named Milchu in Dalriada, a territory of the present county of Antrim in Ireland, where for six years he tended his master's flocks in the valley of the Braid and on the slopes of Slemish, near the modern town of Ballymena.

Admonished by an angel he after six years fled from his cruel master and bent his steps towards the west. He relates in his "Confessio" that he had to travel about 200 miles; and his journey was probably towards Killala Bay and onwards thence to Westport. He found a ship ready to set sail and after some rebuffs was allowed on board. In a few days he was among his friends once more in Britain, but now his heart was set on devoting himself to the service of God in the sacred ministry.

No sooner had St. Germain entered on his great mission at Auxerre than Patrick put himself under his guidance, and it was at that great bishop's hands that Ireland's future apostle was a few years later promoted to the priesthood. It is the tradition in the territory of the Morini that Patrick under St. Germain's guidance for some years was engaged in missionary work among them. When Germain commissioned by the Holy See proceeded to Britain to combat the erroneous teachings of Pelagius, he chose Patrick to be one of his missionary companions and thus it was his privilege to be associated with the representative of Rome in the triumphs that ensued over heresy and Paganism.  

Patrick's thoughts turned towards Ireland, and from time to time he was favoured with visions of the children from Focluth, by the Western sea, who cried to him: "O holy youth, come back to Erin, and walk once more amongst us."

Pope St. Celestine I entrusted St. Patrick with the mission of gathering the Irish race into the one fold of Christ. Palladius (q.v.) had already received that commission, but terrified by the fierce opposition of a Wicklow chieftain had abandoned the sacred enterprise. It was St. Germain, Bishop of Auxerre, who commended Patrick to the pope.  Patrick on his return journey from Rome received at Ivrea the tidings of the death of Palladius, and turning aside to the neighboring city of Turin received episcopal consecration at the hands of its great bishop, St. Maximus, and thence hastened on to Auxerre to make under the guidance of St. Germain due preparations for the Irish mission.

It was probably in the summer months of the year 433, that Patrick and his companions landed at the mouth of the Vantry River close by Wicklow Head.

St. Patrick continued until his death to visit and watch over the churches which he had founded in all the provinces in Ireland. He comforted the faithful in their difficulties, strengthened them in the Faith and in the practice of virtue, and appointed pastors to continue his work among them. It is recorded in his Life that he consecrated no fewer than 350 bishops.

You can read the whole article at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11554a.htm

Wow, that was pretty interesting. I never knew that~

Wow, if he died in 493, born in 387, then that means he 106 when he died?   :-X

ebia:   About the only things that are certain are that he wasn't Irish - he was from Wales or some other part of western Britain, and that he was a major figure in spreading Christianity across what became the cradle of Christianity in Northern Europe

That's what I'd read, in an article by Dr. Jame Kennedy, with more detail, last year.  It was very inspiring.  Thank you, ebia.

Thank you, michael.  But um, that chronicle just so dry, although loaded with some detail.  *sigh*   All this catholicism just so spiritually deadening.  I mean, I wonder how it really was.

Visiting all those cathedrals over there.  It's just all so dismal.  Doesn't it all just seem so dismal to you, Michael_legna??

Why is it catholicism so dead and uninspiring.  I feel like I'm going in to worship the dead, or somthing.  It gives me a headache.  Tombs, and icons, and statues, "saint" this and... ::)


Hey, speaking of this, just read an article in Bib'l Arch'y Review, remains of a convent in Palestine; confirms there were indeed nuns as early as 5th century, in Palestine...

Well, Sym, it is a thing of Ignorance vs. Understanding. For those who truing understand the Liturgy, they see the entry thing is worship. To those who are on the outside looking in, or for those who judge it by the things they see on TV shows (I know many like that) or who don't know anything about it, it may seem boring and dull. But SOMETHING is drawing the Youth to the Orthodox Churches, and it isn’t the spontaneous, out of control, rock and Roll Praise and worship, I can promise you THAT. ;)

You can’t have both Liberty and order, that has been proven. We just choose order. Doesn’t mean we don’t worship, it is just done in a different way.

If you want a more interesting version of the St Patty story, get the new book by Stephen Lawhead. It is worth it.

Thank you, Tibby.  I just have a real hard time with fiction.

I think the last fiction I read was Michner's "The Source"; but even that was based on significant research, I believe.

But even out of Michner's long list of major tomes, that's the only one of his I've read.  

I like sticking with substantiated material, as much as possible.  Spinning of yarns, or even reports with "embellishments"--I can't reference it in polite conversation b/c no one really knows.  So then it just clutters up my brain...


 :-\

THe Source, eh? What is that about?

And, which music does Tibby secretly prefer? ;D

No secret. I'd have a mass choir chanting Thomas Tallis and Robert Byrd if I could ;D ;D ;D

Hey Sym, tell me about the Source!

"The Source" opens with an artifact found in the Middle Eastern desert.  It spends a chapter unraveling what kind of circumstances must have surrounded that particular find--it's context.

The first, literally lying on the ground, is something leftover from WWI.

Underneath that, another find, from a previous context.

Under that, another, still further back in time.

Each chapter a deeper level, until the later chapters are back into ancient history.

Very interesting.  It's probly what got me interested in archaelogy.


Actually, now that I think about it, it may begin with an archaeologist's "trench", and start with what is at the very bottom, some thousands of years old; then working its way chapter by chapter, up to the most recent level, which is WWI.  


Michner(sp) died just a coupla years ago, 90-something, a naval officer in WWII.  He was on kidney dialysis at the last, and finally had them pull the plug.  A prolific author, I think The Source was one of his first.  A number of his books made into movies.

On the contrary, I find the great ancient cathedrals and churches (whether Catholic or Anglican) wonderful places.  Just to sit quietly with God in a place where people have been praying several times a day for hundreds of years.

Hummmm, why'd he drive them out and wher'd he drive them to?  Anyone know?  Wonder what it has to do with Christianity!  ???

Into the sea, I think.
As for why? - I'm not sure a reason is given.

The reality is, Ireland doesn't have any snakes, while Britain does (Adders & Grass Snakes).  A myth was bound to arise to explain it, and somewhere along the line it got attached to St Pat.

Although its true that Ireland has no snakes, this likely had more to do with the fact that Ireland is an island and being separated from the rest of the continent the snakes couldn't get there. The stories of Saint Patrick and the snakes are likely a metaphor for his bringing Christianity to Ireland and driving out the pagan religions (serpents were a common symbol in many of these religions).


http://st-patricks-day.123holiday.net/st_patrick_snakes.html