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I'd be willing to bet that there was a topic on this before but I'm too lazy to run a search. So here it goes.

I've got a while to go before I get married. I've got a while to go before I'm even legally ABLE to get married. However..

The submitting to husbands thing really gets to me. And I've had it explained to me 100 times over. I've come to the conclusion that in this case giving me like facts isn't going to help. It's an emotional thing. The idea doesn't sit well with me. I'm not sure why; I mean, I get it completely. It just seems so sexist no matter how ANYONE explains it.

So, um, I guess I'm reaching out to someone to help me understand this- not in my head, but in my heart. God's ways and thoughts are higher than mine, and redemption is bigger than these doubts of mine.

Please don't get frustrated with me if I don't accept it right away. Believe me, I want to. Sometimes I just feel like women are 2nd class in God's eyes *AND I KNOW THIS ISN'T BIBLICAL I.E. GAL 3:28* but I feel like it. I look back in the O.T. and read all this stuff about multiple wives and concubines, and how God didn't do anything about it.. it just hurts me to see my Lord and Savior seeminly promoting a chauvinistic society. My studying of the Fall has led me to knowing that it wasn't all Eve's fault. I just don't get it. Adam was right there. The fact that he didn't step up should have set off this big warning sign in God's head that maybe men aren't well suited for leadership. And I guess that argument isn't very fair. I mean, not every man is Adam. But then again, not every woman is Eve, and therefore.. not every woman would have done what Eve did.

I want to enter into the ministry. A lot of people get on my case about it and I'm sure some women here too will jump down my throat. But I do believe that it's a calling from God. I've just got a lotta stuff sort out and quiet a bit of time for me to work through it all. And this, I believe, is another obstical I'm going to have to overcome to reach for my dreams. This issue is hindering my relationship with God. I get angry with Him a lot about it. So please help.

Love and God Bless,
Jenn

The submitting to husbands thing really gets to me. And I've had it explained to me 100 times over. I've come to the conclusion that in this case giving me like facts isn't going to help. It's an emotional thing. The idea doesn't sit well with me. I'm not sure why; I mean, I get it completely. It just seems so sexist no matter how ANYONE explains it.

It's a difficult concept... And I bet if you ask 100 different people, you'd get 100 different explanations. So I won't offer another one... ;)
But.... maybe it would help if you consider what 'submission' isn't~
1) It isn't a slave/master thing
2) It isn't a smart man/stupid woman thing
3) It isn't a women don't count thing
4) It isn't a women have no mind thing
5) It isn't a women have no rights thing
6) It isn't a woman must bow to her man thing
7) And the best thing is: It isn't a woman must submit to ALL men thing!  ;D

Well, marriage is an image of Christ in the church. When people get married, they're testifying to a future event. The men are in a way, a type of Christ, and the women are a type of the bride of Christ. We are *supposed* to live out our marriages the way Christ and the church function. One in loving leadership, the other in loving submission, and the two one. Of course, yo would want to submit to Christ, right?

But of course we live in a sinful world. So it can really take the bloom off the rose, so to speak.

That's very nice, Whitehorse. And not only does the wife submit to her husband; he cares for her. He is not told to be her master, but rather to follow in the example of Christ and devote his life to her. Within their own "positions", neither is greater than the other, she in submitting to his authority nor he in laying down his life for her.

I would also like to make a comment on something in Jenn's post concerning the sins of Biblical figures: nowhere does it say that God approved of their every act. Righteousness was accounted to them through faith; they did not earn it, and they weren't perfect. "All have fallen short of the Glory of God". The only human that was ever a perfect example of what God approves is Jesus.

Your not alone sweetie! I too have the same problem & trying to understand fully the submitting to the husband thing. I had it explained to me by my Mum one time and it really made me think & understand it a bit more in a good way.
She said, (Just as Sincereheart did) that is wasn't like "Oh you absolutely do what he tells you or else..." And that we arent slaves to them. She explained that when we are in love & we have Jesus watching over the marriage it becomes something you want to do, not because you have to persay. She said like your husband loves you so much and you share all your thoughts, etc. and he helps you in problems, trying times, etc. so you have a love for him that you want to submit because its (the marriage itself) is being guided by Christ so you grow with each other not only in each others eyes, but the Lords eyes and that "submitting" part isnt viewed as a "bad" thing, that its actually a very loving, devoted thing to have between each other.
I KNOW I messed that up and Im sure its confusing, SORRY :(, but thats how I remember it & understand it. I just think I kept thinking assuming it meant I had to do every single thing my husband said or I was sinning against the Lord ya know? :):) Good Luck to you & your future hubby!:):)

awww, thanks, NateyCakes!  :)

I love the way this writer explains Gods plan of submission:

God's plan for marriage is for two people, to come together, lay aside themselves and seek to meet the needs of their mate. To abandon our own desires, agendas and be willing to get in the skin of another person.
A man must sacrifice himself. A woman must submit herself. Just like we do when we come to Jesus. Lay down our pride. Lay down our self.. Rest our faith and trust in Him.

Submission is a matter of the will. By means of force, you can impose terms of surrender upon someone, but as many prisoners of war will tell you, keeping their will free, even if their body was in bondage, is what kept them alive. In other words, submission is an issue of the heart. Submission demands that our motives, and not only our actions, be in order.

Marriage, in this way, mirrors and reflects our Christianity itself. Jesus asks His followers to not only do what He does, but to love what He loves, and love as He loves. The whole of Christianity is about a humble submission of our individual will to the sovereign will of God. Our faith falters if we are incapable of acknowledging and honoring God's authority over all of our life. Our marriages falter, if we fail to be totally unselfish with regard to our spouses.

Submission is a statement of position, not of value or worth or skill. God was not addressing worth when He set up the rules and roles, God was addressing function! In every partnership, someone has to be the bottom line, the place where the buck stops, the tie-breaker. And in marriage, God gave that function to husbands.

Only a fool of a man (and there are plenty of them) takes that function and uses it to dominate, intimidate, take advantage of and Lord over his wife. And in doing that, a husband proves he has no understanding of what it means to be a godly husband. Submission is not a excuse for dictatorship. I have never met a husband who loves his wife sacrificially, as Christ loves the church, whose wife is not submitted to him.

[BUT] - The Bible clearly makes submission a reflection of a woman's relationship with God. What is left out is the conditions. Oh, we are quick to make those conditions. "I would honor him, IF he ?.. {fill in the blank.}" But the Bible doesn't say submit to your husband IF he is worthy of respect and honor. But the wife's duty to honor and respect her husband's position, is not dependent on how well he performs.
When you took him as your husband, you addressed his worthiness at the altar.

What if a husband is not worthy of respect? What if he is a lousy husband? What if he is not following God's directive to love sacrificially? The Bible addresses that.

1 Peter 3:1-2 You wives should yield to your husbands. Then, if some husbands do not obey God's teaching, they will be persuaded to believe without anyone's saying a word to them. They will be persuaded by the way their wives live. Your husbands will see the pure lives you live with your respect for God.

But let's be clear: this section of Scripture addresses a husband failing to love God or his wife with the commitment and dedication the Bible expects. This verse DOES NOT speak to abusive men or unfaithful husbands. Remember, the power of God's marriage covenant is in intimacy, fidelity and unity. When a husband breaks those marital bonds, with violence, abuse, fear, threats, intimidation or unfaithfulness ? the Bible provides a wife with escape avenues. Nothing in the Bible tells us that God expects a woman to take abuse in the name of submission. That shows a total lack of understanding of Biblical submission.

taken from: http://www.richmondccc.org/yourti16856.html

Isn't it just out of respect and honor and in return the husband respects and honors you???

These are truly some of the best comments on this subject that I have ever read.  It is so difficult to come to grips with submission of any type if you don't know Christ but if you do then you dig deeper to understand the fullness of "submission" to God and to others because you want to please God and be obedient.  Trying to explain this to someone in an abusive relationship is very difficult and Shylynne I agree with your comments on that subject as well.  God wants us to submit out of love...not out of fear.  I believe He can give us the strength and wisdom to see the difference if we stay in His will.  As well as the courage to act on our decisions when we decide we are being abused.

Well, first I want to say that I was so much like you in my thinking when I got married.  Dh and I argued over it a lot.
When I finally became a TRUE Christian, I finally got it (not saying that you ARENT..but I wasnt)
My hubby doesnt make me bow before him, I dont obey his every command.  But when something comes up, he tells me about it and we discuss it together.  He has solutions that i dont agree with and I have some he doesnt agree with.  In the end though, if we cant agree on it...I go with HIS decision..and it helps to pray about it also.  HE is the head of our household and I dont mind doing it because its how God wants it to be!
Is he always right? Nope.  But neither am I.
In fact, I find myself doing a lot of the things that I consider to be the mans job...like bedtime prayers with our 3 children.
We are their help mates and we are here to encourage them, love them, pray for them and just be here for them.
They have their part to fulfill also reguarding their wives.
When intimatacy is the last thing I want, when he does want it...I dont always submit.  Maybe I should, but thats a hard issue for me.  As a husband, he understands and tries not to ask too much of me.
We arent slaves for men, God never intended for us to be...but I do agree that we are to be submissive to our husbands as best we can.
Sorry, Im sure this hasnt helped much.
Dawn

This is truly a difficult issue to understand; even to embrace it. It's not a matter of a woman submitting to a man.... it's is a matter of first, submission to God; then, husbands and wives submit to each other.

When God comes first in your life, above all (even above your husband & children); when you truly, fully put His desire & will first, submitting to your husband becomes easier, partly because once you've submitted your entire self to God everything is His; He becomes more, we become less - in other words we "die to ourself". It's not that we aren't important, but that God is more (most) important in our lives.

It's a 2-way street....the wife isn't meant to be a doormat, or a second class citizen; she's meant to be a "help-meet" for the husband. The husband is to love, honour, protect and provide for the wife. They are meant to be a team. God created Adam first; and Eve was formed out of the bones of that man, and filled with the same breath of life that God breathed into Adam.

In Ephesians 5:25 the husbands are told to love their wives, even as Christ loved the church & gave himself for it. That's a pretty tall order.... men are to love their women the way Christ loved his church..... giving their all for their wives.



I don't know how much help this is....my feeling is that it is really one of those things you have to live through to really understand because understanding something "with our heads" is a lot different than understanding something "with our hearts".


Gracey

I  don't  believe in  dominance  or  submission in a loving relationship. I believe in partnership and cooperation.  That's the way it works.   Equality for all.  It's the  American way.

I prefer to live God's way.

 :)



Gracey
(it isn't about dominance at all)

AMEN!  :D

Just a thought.... If more people would led the Lord lead them to their spouse, less would have trouble with the whole marriage thing. People insist on doing things their way then say they can't follow Scripture.  :-X

this is not the rah rah american way forum , nor the liberal commy natzi ways of boston.

   oh, with love and kisses butcha from boston ;D

I Brake for Jesus

to make it short and sweet, give him all the respect he diserves. if he abuses his authority hes lost your submition.

this holle subbiting to your husband thing is hard very hard but the way i look at  itis god put him on earth first and the lord put us on to keep him company the lord to put him in charge of us so he is responsable for us and  us women if we love then enough we should help them out and listen to them even if u feel it is a stupid idea    god is there for u no matter what and it does get easy       I still have my problems with the subbition thing but i  try and that is all god asks for    
 i hope that makes sence to  u

Ya know..I had a problem here for years..till just a few months ago.

1. God demands the husband to be the head of the household. Let me explain this.
The husband is held Accountable. This takes alot off us.  Now lets say for instance We say..Honey I want to go to Church.  He says no..we have no car to get there.  He will be held accountable for this. (not us)  this doesnt mean we shouldnt use commen sense. Lets say our husband tells us to do something like rob a bank. (huge exageration I hope) Knowing its wrong..we should take a stand.

This does not give a man any excuse to see us as a slave. Like a man says GET ME A COKE! bad bad..  As women are treated Right..we do things like this because we want to.  We clean because we want to. We like to make our men happy. More so if they make us happy.  

Marriage is a partnership.  My husband takes off the lids off those jars that I cant.. I sew up his socks if he gets a hole in it. Not because we want to.. but because we love each other.  

He helps with the kids..I know when I have had it..Im going to blow.. he will often tell me to lay down.  He picks up the slack when im down for the count..I do the same for him.

Many false intrepretations have gone into the submitting thing.  I am glad your searching you knowledge here. :-)  

All I know it is Gods will to submit to my husband.  The bible says that He esteems a person who is contrite, broken and trembles at his word.  The bible admonishes women to submit.  At times you may feel that you are right and definitely you are.  But, you know your husband.  You know he may not like to be told anything,  you can wait for the right time to tell him, actually you know when best to tell him something.  Just understand the man God has given you and approach him in an individual way.  No formula is applicable to all because your husband is different from mine.
Foe example,  you may discover you dislike something he does, but do not tell him right away.  You have the spirit of self control.  You can even say something so casualy in a joking way in his better moods, and you know he will get the message.
There is nothing more that will kill your relationship than trying to outcompete him in the headship.  A cow with two heads is abnormal.  So you have to submit even if you think, his brains are less.  Who told you that.  You will feel stupid when you go against his advise and you realize it later
Accept you are a woman.  with a role to play in the family.  The woman is the home.  the bible says that a foolish woman will wreck her home with her hands.  Submit to husband, and you will see him loving you more than you can imagine, pray for issues which disturb you.  God is really a present help in time of need.  There at times you feel things are bad,  just pray and cry to Jesus and he will heal your marriage.  i mean literaly call his name,  Jesus I need you now.
As a woman you are a homemaker, make your a home a comfortable place where your husband can be happy to come to after work  Ensure he is comfortable.  Feed the children well. give them love.  Fulfill your husbands needs otherwise he will look for a sweet thing outside who is very happy to fulfil his needs.(you know what I mean)  It is not about age.  Cultivate a gentle and a quite spirit.  Pray a lot as a wife.
God made you a woman he loves you and that is the way it is.  Dont go about sulking cos you are below him.  It is not really that, You are really strong and that is why a home without a mother is not a home.  So do not strain yourself to be  manlike.  If an animal has two heads, that animal will be so confused cos the heads will be  will be arguing where should we go, should we drink that water,  no leg move this way, no I think the hand shoukld go to the right.
Be a woman God made you, a crown for the husband
 for the sake of harmony and with unity you will do wonders
God bless your marriage, it is made to last and for complete fulfilment.  Love your husband even if he is short, with a talking problem >I mean despite his weakness.  God will hold you accountable if you mistreat or misuse his gift to you that you desired for for so long.

My husband does not get the final say, nor do I "submit" to him.  Our marriage is a partnership.  We discuss all issues and the decision is made based on logic and reason.  To be honest, in almost 15 years of marriage, we really have not come across any topic that we could not resolve through compromise or giving in to the other person's viewpoint because their reasoning was more logical.  

As a general rule, I find myself on the losing end quite frequently but that's because my husband is far more logical than I am and can argue his point better.   Would he force the issue if I did not want to go along?  No because he also respects me.

Having to negotiate every little thing in a marriage/household all the time really would take some much time and effort.  Letting the husband lead works if you have chosen the right husband for yourself and he is leading a good Christian life.  

Pre-marriage counselling should also be recommended for all couples marrying in the church.  Knowing what you expect from each other as spouses before the marriage can save many tears later.  Too many couples spend lots of time and effort planning the wedding ceremony and honeymoon but don't plan for much later than that.

HERE is the thing ?A woman looses nothing ?GOD has put the burdern on the man ,too carry the load .HE must LOVE his wife as CHRIST loved the church .He must be the protector ,the priovider ,the spiritual leader .He MUST be reponisable for healing in ,his hoursehold .A woman has NO choice .It is in her heart to fiollow HIm .I know you may not agree .But you will .But HE must be a righteous man or this will not be .GOD will judge each man for his home ,more than the woman .GOD told me ?if a man will get on his knees and pray with his family ,take his family to church ,read the living WORD with his family .HE would take care of everything else .
It is in a womans heart to want to please her husband . And a righteous man ,will do all in his power to please his wife .because when married they are one .if a marriage fails 99.99% it is the mans fault .

I just finished reading this great book called "Romancing your husband" by Debra White Smith. It is a christian book and she talks alot about submitting to your husbands and uses lots of bible verses to help us understand what submitting really means in a realtionship. Check your local library for a copy. Hopefully it will shed some light on the subject.

Equal partnership requires much negotiating.  I got tired of trying to negotiate everything.  I tried submission and obedience.  It worked for me.  Mostly because my husband loves me so much.  We shouldn't negotiate with God.  God wants our obedience.

Children will follow the example their parents show.  If you want your children to be obedient to God and to you and your husband, don't be the perfect example of negotiation on everything.  Where do the kids learn it?  Mommy is the boss, Daddy is the boss of Mommy, God is the Boss of Daddy.  So no more "ask Daddy if Mommy says no"; "ask Mommy if Daddy says no".  I have witnessed 7 yr olds trying to negotiate themselves out of their homework with Mommy.  "Let's make a deal."  No,  I don't want this in my home.

I disagree.  I don't think it takes too much time to discuss things with my husband.  We do it over dinner, while we're doing dishes together and while cuddling before we go to sleep.  We generally come to a concensus during these little discussions and when we can't it's shelved for the time being.

You're correct.  Parents are the examples for their children and I want my children to learn how to hold a discussion, listen to the other person's viewpoint, give their own and then come to the best solution.

Do my children try to negotiate with me?  Sometimes, but the most important less they've learned is that some things aren't negotiable while others may be up for grabs.  Sometimes their logic makes more sense than my rule...so we revise.

For the record....I never make "deals" with my children.   Bad precedent to set.  If mom said it's homework time, then no they can't make a deal to clean the bathroom on Saturday if I let them do their homework later.  However, I might let them do their homework later than normal if they give me a logical reason why this should be so in this particular instance.

God gave them a brain.  It's my job to teach them how to use it.

My husband's first wife died when his two children were less than 2 year's old.  When we married, he said that one of the things he enjoys about having a two parent household is that it provides a balance.  I believe that applies to a marriage as well.

The last word on anything must be with someone .it is the man .but the burdern has been put on him .To carry the load .But he must love his wife as CHRIST loved the church .But he will be judged harder than her

No submitting, you must both be treated equally.
That's all I have to say.

wELL IF WE DO NOT OBEY god ?wE LOSE !tHE MAN must RULE ,OR he ALSO LOSES  

Hey where is the girly who started this topic?

Any way 1st off you don't have to get married. (No sex and no Babies)
And if you do have that desire then GOD placed it there when He created you. So you need to follow His plan. He made marrige not us.
Now if you follow His plan for marraige you'll do just fine.
GOD will send a man that will be your best friend, and you know how we listen to our best friends.
Also the closer you grow to GOD the more you'll look at submitting it deeper than your husband. It's just obeying GOD.
You have to submitt on your job to your boss if you want a job. And if you want to stay out of jail you better submitt to the police (if they are in the right). So if we will let our boss be our boss to get that pay chack how much more should we want to let GOD be our boss and listen.
Letting GOD pick your mate is the key! I let my husband do his thing, and he never ever bosses me around. NEVER.
How would you feel having 2 bosses and they are both in charge and they tell you 2 different things. That would get too confusing. Look at it this way, every being has 1 head.
So should the house hold.
Amen.

Of course everything must be done out of LOVE .But if A man loves his LORD and loves his wife .He will do all he can to please her ,as long as it does not come between him and JESUS CHRIST . He will bless his kids and be a blessing .People will always do more out of love than fear .

Here is the problem I have with this issue....

My husband believes in God. But so many of his actions do not show that. It is very hard for me to be submissive to him when I don't feel like he is doing his part. I don't think he loves me as Christ loves the church.

I do try to support him in all that he does. I also consider his feeling and needs in everything that I do. But then I find myself arguing with him over money or other issues when I feel like he is not doing what is best for us.

If I submit to my husband does that mean that I look the other way when he spends the bill money on video games? When he tells me about how he lost his temper again at work in front of customers... do I tell him that was ok, or do I tell him he is a fool and could loose his job and not be able to support us?

This submission thing is just very hard for me. I want to submit to my husband and have the kind of marriage that God intended for us. But I always find myself arguing over things with him, and most of the time I start the fight. Starting fights can't be submission, but do you blindly follow someone just because he is the man?

M, that was real good! It sounds like you read that Book "His Needs, Her Needs" that is a awesome book.
Katt, it sounds like you are newly married? Are you?
Some of the things you listed i can related to. My husband and I argued a lot about money and his job and other things.
Now the 1st thing i want to say is that an arguement doesn't maen that you are not submitting. If you never argue then it's time to see the Pastor for help. We all argue. My Pastor told me the 1st year was going to be rough and possibly the hardest. because you have 2 coming together as one and you both have different up bringings and ideas.
I want you to pray for him more, fast for strenght to submit, and read with your husband the Word. Make time for devotions. Also you have to realize that you had a choise, and you chose him. So now you must submit and it's not so much about him, but as unto GOD. Look at it like that. GOD is the Big Picture. Submit doen't mean you can't give your input.
It doen't mean you don't have a voice. But somethings you will have to take to the Lord and wait for GOD to deal with your husband on. thats not easy and can be painfull, yet God will deal with him. TRUST ME. i'm only telling you because i know as a fact.
so be encoraged and you can hit me up at any time. my info is there!

I'll pray for you guys!

Thanks M and Mrs Chosen for the replies.  :D

You both have given me some good points to think about. I'll try to answer some of the questions yall had. We have been married for 11 years. We went threw premarital counseling, plus we have been to marriage counseling twice during the 11 years we have been together.

We have had alot of issues in the 11 years we have been together. Some of them almost ended in divorce. I guess the real problem is me. I have a hard time letting go of the past. When I get hurt it takes a long time for me to trust again. It's hard to submit to your husband when your still trying to figure out how to trust him again.

I did not even realize I was holding onto these feelings until I wrote that post and read your responses. I guess what I need to do is pray that God will change my heart, and make me more like him. I need to trust again. I don't think I'll ever be able to submit until I do that.

Thanks Ladies! You really did help me out on this.

The wisest thing I think you can do is ,if he will get on your knees together and pray with and for him ,never beating him down ,always try to lift him up .And if he will read and study the bible with him .Praying before reading asking the HOLY SPIRIT to lead him in what part of the new testament you study .

M,
Your right. My husband does do alot of good things for me. I just tend to hold onto the bad like you were saying. There are alot of days where I do give and give and don't get anything in return, but I'm sure everyone had days like that. There are times when he can be so sweet and loving, those are the times I need to learn to hold onto.

I've only been on this forum a couple of days and I feel like it's been good for me already. I am seeing some of the things I'm doing wrong and areas I need to work on. I wish I had more Christian friends in "real life" not just on the net. It does help to bounce ideas off someone and get a second opinion. Thank you.

We can only blindly follow man we follow God's Word. Our example is Sarah.  I have been struggling to be in submission for 41 years now, some day i might get there :P

We follow the Word of God not 'man' . If we are not following the Word we are following the world. We should live to please the Lord. Pleasing Him is to obey Him.

Boy am I going to be 'tested' ....If  yalll cant tell i am  'preaching' to myself.  Marriage is the hardest life lesson to learn. To be a good spouse is to be UNselfish We are to remember it is easy to love those who are lovely ...

Luke 6:32-33

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
KJV
 Matt 5:46


A short true story....

Dad was a pastor for over 50 years.....One day Mom and dad were argueing LOUDLY Dad was telling her ...I  do too love you as Christ loves the Church...... Her reply  then why arnt 'you dead yet' ..


 We ladies can killl with our mouth quickly are deeply often we dont hear ourselfs and do not see the pain we cause. When we get 'hurt' he knows we cry or something he most often gets angry or withdraws and we dont understand that we inflected the blow......

I wanted toshare this book with a friend of mine, but I go back to it so much that I am just going to have to buy it for her as a friend of mine bought it for me. It is from Debi Pearl, and the book title is "Created to be his help meet." I think it is a must read for every woman.

Hi, I recently found something out.   God said that it was not good for man to be alone, and that he would created a "helper" or "helpmate" for him.  Some translations may even be companion.  I have yet to see a translation with the TRUE meaning.  The real word should translate as "rescuer".  Why?  Adam was alone, it was the first problem on earth, and Eve was created to RESCUE him from lonliness.

Unfortunately, over the thousands and thousands of years where women we regarded as cattle, or inferior at best, it was never translated properly.  What a conspiracy!

Now, about submitting to them....this does not mean OBEY.  It means more of a yielding your will and life to him.  Get this- HE IS SUPPOSED TO YEILD HIMSELF TO YOU AS WELL!  It is stressed on the woman's part because it seems that women have a harder time doing this.  Submission is not something a husband is supposed to force....it wouldn't be submission if it were!  It is a choice- you have FREE WILL.  It says to submit to him in love, not obedience to him.  MY husband never TELLs me to do anything...and vice versa.  That was a premarital agreement we had based on our interpretation of scripture.  

You are your own person, precious to God.  He never intended for you to be cattle, second rate, inferior, WHATEVER.  He never intended for what has been going on over the history of man to the present to happen.  You are created to RESCUE someone from lonliness!  How cool!

 I am a 25 year old wife and teacher who has also been struggling with submission since I got married 3 years and 7 months ago. I have recently had a new insight on the wholw issue. In teaching my students government i realised that having no government is an anachy.
 
history abounds with chaos resulting from disobedience to God's pattern. By usurping the place of leadership and acting on behalf of her husband eve introduced sin into the human race.

On the other hand there is nothing more attractive than a woman feeling in  the role that God has designed for her.

The submission discussion always causes trouble...

God ment submit to authority if they are taking the right decision..

Lets see if a husband decides to go out and cheet is eyes out, should a wife submit? NO... therefore submission is paralleled with the kind of decisions that are taken.

My husband is a control freak,so if I were to submit to
him,he'd use me for his personal slave,literally. He'd
have me confined to the house 24/7,carrying out his
every command. So,NO I don't submit to him. It would
be a detrimental mistake if I were to submit to him. He
sees women as being slaves,put here to cater to men.
I refuse to accept that. He calls me a women's libber.
Well,I'd much rather be that than be a slave.
Lolli ::) ::) ::)

There is a difference between being a slave to your husband and being a "help meet". There is a definite line between the man being head of the family and being a dictator.

God made Eve so that Adam would have a help meet.

Gen 2:18  And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

What this means is that she was made to aid or assist (help) Adam. Not to do all things for him but to help him do those things.

In present times this means that she is to help him with the family matters and with his assignment given to him by God. This does not mean that the woman is to run around doing everything the man tells her to do while the man sits on his duff do nothing.

This is saying that they are to work together in those things that benefit the family as well as Gods work. All to often in families it goes to one extreme or the other. The man attempts to be a complete control freek ordering the woman around while he does nothing or the woman rebels and does everything the opposite of what the man says even when the man is attempting to do what is right.

In a marriage there needs to be a happy medium between these two. The Bible tells us that when we get married we become one. Not two people going their own individual directions but one with the same goals working together with the same objective.

The Bible does tell us also that the man is the head of this family. Again it is not to be a totalatarian, everything his way, but to have some semblance of organization. It is the mans place to have the final say so of what is done by the family. A Godly man will take into consideration his wifes needs and desires when making these final decisions so that the outcome is for the good of both not just for one or the other. Again, this does not mean that the woman does not have a say in these matters.

If the man goes to the extent of everything his way and the woman goes to the extent of everything her way then there is caos and confusion. Family goals do not get reached because both of you keep fighting against each other for what you desire and not for what is necessarily the best for both.

I don't know if anyone has already suggested this but it is a book called love and respect. It is silver and red. you can probably get it at a christian bookstore. I think the author is emerson, but i am not sure. hope that helps.

thats a hard choise, but in my experience i find that if you can find a good man to love. then you should love him back. and this might include submitting to his every needs and pleasures.

being 53 years of age, I have sat under many sermons on this.  Most of the time the Preacher, makes it sound like if the wife was submissive enough the marriage would be great.  But last year, our Pastor here in Washington said the problem was more the men.  That if the men would love their wives like Jesus loved the Church, the majority of women would have no problem submitting to her husband.  Too often men see their position as ruler over the wives and totally ignore the loving them as Jesus loved the Church.  Jesus died for the Church, so would He be for a husband verbally and physically abusing his wife?  I don't think so.  When something comes up my husband and I discuss it together.  He likes having someone give their thougths so he can make a decision seeing more than his side.  Does he always make the right decision and by this I don't mean mine, ?  no.  there have been times, I will tel him, I have a bad feeling abut something but he did it anyway and sure nough, it was a bad idea.  But, we are a couple and we go through the bad and the good ideas together.  I am wrong myself many times.  
But we work together as a couple sharing the good and the bad.  He does not seem himself as my boss.  But, when a decision has to be made, and we both don't agree, then I do my best to be a good wife and let him decide.    God is working on me on this part. :P

I agree with that, Texasgrandma,

In our marraige we also discuss when big decisions have to be made. On most issues we agree, but if we don't we ask help from people we know have had the same problem, and then we go to God. We have made mistakes, we have both been wrong, but that is ok, since we learn as we go along.

One question though:

Husbands should love their wives so that they could submit easier.
Wives should submit to their husbands so that they could love them easier.

Which do you think should come first?

Submitting is simply being open to receive.  Not so much getting bossed around.  The Godliness of it all and what is demanded and what is expected is all depending on what a person's idea of submission is all about.  Some people just hear the word, "Submit" and they hear, "Get bossed around"  Submitting and getting bossed around are two totally different entities.  Submitting is really being open to receive.  "Wives, be open to receive from your husbands."  He is supposed to be taking care of you as he is supposed to be taking care of himself.  He may need to guide you in order to take the maximum amount of care of you.  Be open to receive instruction, be open to receive guidance, be open to recieve . . . all the good things a man can offer you.

God Loves

Trust

My husband is a nonbeliever, in fact he can often be heard cursing the christians.... that being said, I still feel because I'M A CHRISTIAN WOMAN that I should be submissive to him.  He has the final say-so in the decision making.

I try to live my life as a gracious, loving wife so that by my example he might turn to Jesus.... but it's not up to me to save him - I can only pray.

Blessings -

god bless you and keep praying

Hi,
re: submitting to Husbands.  When you have a husband and you love him you will work it out where you don't
feel you are really submitting, you just love him. It doesn't mean you give up everything. Yes, he is the leader of the household, but he is not to abuse leadership, but then you are his helpmate. You make decisions together. It is a good thing when you have a husband and you connect and love him for it. I hope this makes sense but don't think to much about submitting yet if you do not have a boyfriend.  God will make you and him ready for each other. 
bless you,
His JOY! :)

If I had a girlfriend I would do almost anything for her and let her do anything she wants. Women are more precious than diamonds. I do have a online friend that I love very much.

It's not just about finding the right guy it's about you seeing your role and wanting to play it.
When asked by a woman if I think she should get married I always ask the woman can you call him lord as Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord? A wife is told to respect her husband and thats a one time decision. A husband is told to love his wife. A man is told to to give himself up for his wife and that is his choice to do that. A woman is given the choice to submit herself to her husband and that is her choice. Titus 2 says that the word of God is dishonored when a wife does not submit herself to her husband. Neither husband or wife should force there will on the other but it should be recognized that a husband has authority over his wife as Christ has authority over the church. A lot of times as a woman you are going to have the urge to correct your husband and that is not your place to do in public. You should have a man who wants you to come to him who is going to ask you what can i give you how can i serve you but if you don't have that guy divorce isn't an option if you are both christian. It's grace and love and mercy it's acknowledging God with our own actions and thoughts who we are it's not the other person it is always us. Who is stronger in faith bare with those who are weak. We are called to service. 1 Peter 2 talks about submitting even to cruel masters. It's not man we serve it is God. Let your light be seen

I agree with you that submitting is not always easy, and it doesn't seem fair. But, I look at it this way. If your hubby makes a decision and you don't agree with it, and you cannot come to a compromise, go with his decision. If he is right, you both benefit. If he is wrong, at least it cannot be blamed on you.
I have been married for 27 years, and so far its been working.

Amen TMC, and please allow me to welcome you to CU, I hope you enjoy your visits with us.  ;)

Why would anyone marry, or even stay married to someone that doesn't love them?  submission is a act of love.  Being the authority requires a act of love also. But most importantly this idea that the guy can just override the wife isn't even biblical. 
if the wife and husband can't come to a happy medium in a problem, then as the priest of the household he is required to take it to God and let him decide.
God will open the right door in the decision. 

i went through two loveless marraiges and the one thing i learned is that without love a marraige isn't going to last or work, and you can't create love that isn't there to begin with.   That happens when you find the one God made for you.

I THINK SUBMITTING TO YOUR HUSBAND IS WHAT GOD WANTS FROM US AS WIFES,
BUT IT GOES BOTH WAYS , AND I MAY BE WRONG , BUT WE JUST HAVE TO PRAY AND ASK GOD
WHAT HE WANTS FROM US

I agree with alot of what's been written here.  If God's Holy Word teaches none other than a woman is to submit to her husband in all things, then that is what she is to do!  And if the Bible also teaches we are to submit to each other as a body of believers, then go for it!
Submitting willingly is the issue.  We all want our own way, and selfishness is a very harmful thing.  Noone in leadership should be selfish, and noone following their lead should be selfish.

I, myself, have had the struggle of submission in an abusive situation, and I honestly believe God has set up the proper order for a reason.  If the husband is not leading the way God says he is supposed to, it puts the whole thing out of whack.  If there is abuse going on, then safety has to be considered.

If a woman is allowiing herself to be abused, then that is her choice, but when she allows children to be abused, then the blame for it must somewhat rest on her shoulders.  I know.

i agree with submitting to your husbands, however what about a husband that doesn't want to be the head of the household.  and i am sorry for himall4 that you went thru in your past.  i am sorry you were abused and by the sounds of some of the things you have said to me that you have gotten yourself out of that situation.  the lord does want us to submit to our husbands, but when that husband is abusive, both physically and emotionally that is when we have to rethink the submissive part, because no one i mean no one deserves to be abused.  i pray for those who are in those situations and don't know how to get out of them.  so i am thankful that you have gotten out.

gina