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Hello,

I received the following question from one of my members on my personal site. Can I please have your input on this subject:


God bless!

Hi TruthInWord,  Welcome to the forum!

As you probably know there are basically 4 different groups of thought on this topic.  Pre trib, pre wrath, post trib, post millennial.  To be fair, each position seems to have its problems, probably the most problematic of the 4, is the post millennial view.   From my studies, I feel out of all the above views, the pre trib position has the least amount of difficulty answering problems that arise when comparing scripture with scripture.   I do not believe a stand on any of these views relates to ones salvation, but rather where one sees the church during the tribulation period.  I also believe that this is not a recent doctrine.  There is some debate going on about this, but from history and scripture, I think it can be seen that this is not a recent teaching.

Rather than trying to answer this very involved question here, I would suggest you go to the "Prophecy - Current Events" forum, and check out the "Rapture season 2006/2007 facts & evidence" and "SORRY ! No Rapture Today" threads.  There is lively but friendly discussion going on in each of these threads about this very topic.  

Sorry, I would like to try and give you more here, but I just got off work and am very tired at the moment.  I'm sure you will enjoy the other threads, and I encourage you to join in there!   I will try as time permits to answer any questions you may bring up.

Grace and Peace!

It will be in 2 stages just as He came he first time. First He came privately. Very little is known about His early years and it was basically "PRIVATE." His minstry then became public and in full view.

First He comes back "FOR HIS SAINTS" which will be private and not all will see it. He then returns "WITH HIS SAINTS" to begin His Second Advent.

It is sometimes called the RAPTURE and the REVELATION. The rapture was a MYSTERY and consequently unknown in Mt 24. Mt 24 and the synoptics do NOT speak of the rapture.

Regardless of all of the various theological systems that proport to deny the pre-tribulation rapture of the Church, it is the biblical view.

The tribulation is purely Jewish as the Time of Jacob's trouble and it could not possibly be MID- or POST- trib because then one could know the exact time. Just wait for the abomination of desolation and count 3.5 years(MID) or 7 years and you have POST.

aw

The second coming: A prophesied event from the foundation of the world.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints. (KJV)


Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, (KJV)


Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: (KJV)


Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: (Ezk Chapter 36 & 37) (KJV)


Christ returns as judge and King of Kings


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse: and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (KJV)


Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. (KJV)


Rev 19:17 For the great day of his wrath is come: and who shall be able to stand? (KJV)


Christ’s visible return to the earth to redeem the Nation of Israel:


Zech 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, (KJV)


Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(KJV)


Acts 1:11 This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (KJV)


Judgment of Israel and the Nations on earth:


Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (KJV)


Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another. (KJV)

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds: and every eye shall see him,


The rapture of the body of Christ (the church) an unprophesied event kept secret before the foundation of the world. Christ’s invisible return in heaven to catch away the body of Christ.


I Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (KJV)


I Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)


I Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)


I Thes 4:17 Then we, which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the air. (KJV)


Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (KJV)


Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: (KJV)


After the rapture, the judgment seat of Christ in heaven.


II Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ: (KJV)


I Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest:


I Cor 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (KJV)


I Cor 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (KJV)

<:)))><


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Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

And the words of Jesus on a two stage second coming  are.......

The rapture was a MYSTERY and therefore kept secret by God until the appointed time which was not until Paul announced it in Corinthians and then Thessalonians.

aw

The Mystery is no mystery, it is clearly written.
1st Corinthians 15
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


At the last Trump, the 7th Trump. We ALL shall be changed.

Not just us believers! ALL!

Why are we so worried about the future Tribulation, that we have to make up some secret mystery Fly away doctrine, to feel better, study the 13th Chapter Ezek. This flesh is ordained to cast away, but your spiritual body CAN live forever, if you prepare yourselves, through the will of God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, The Holy Spirit the Comforter.
Seal of God, Two Edged Sword, will protect us during that future physical/spiritual tribulation.

God Bless
Jesus Peace,

Jason

If it was no mystery, then why did Paul tell this group of people at that time it was?  It was a mystery to them!


I don't see the connection of the 7th trump.  Revelation was not even written yet, why would Paul refer to it?  The 7th trumpet is a judgment trumpet.   Also don't follow your comment about ALL, including unbelievers?    So unbelievers are also going to say "oh death where is they sting, oh grave where is they victory"?   Thessalonians gives a different perspective when it says the dead IN CHRIST shall rise first...not ALL dead.   Can't have it both ways.


I don't think anyone is worried Jason.  We are instructed not to worry but comfort each other with the hope of his return.

Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Look for the blessed hope, not the tribulation.  

In Thessalonians we are taugh the secret "Fly away doctrine".  ;D

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Deny it all you want Jason, but it doesn't get plainer than this.  The Trump of God (not the angels 7th trump of Rev),  Dead in christ only, then those alive, and they meet where?  In the air...not terra firma!  The fly away doctrine is scriptural....to teach anything else is to deny Gods word.

Grace and Peace!

The definition of a biblical mystery is that it was kept secret until God's appointed time, which in this case, was Icor 15 and Thess. Therfore, there is NO prophecy or mention of it until that time.

The LAST TRUMP, BTW, is not the 7th of Rev. Tha last is the 2nd of 2 as when the Israelites moved from camp the "FIRST trump told them to GET READY. The 2nd trump, also called the LAST trump, signaled to MARCH!!!!

aw