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Prayer => General Discussion => Topic started by: gennex on January 20, 2004, 03:52:06 PM



Title: Sadam
Post by: gennex on January 20, 2004, 03:52:06 PM
If you were to meet Mr. Sadam. What would you ask him?

Do you think he should be put to death?


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Kris777 on January 22, 2004, 11:11:58 PM
I can't think of anything that I would ask him, but I do believe that he should be put to death.  I just hope that he would become saved before he died though.  I don't know if that will happen, but pray for it.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: I Brake for Jesus on January 28, 2004, 02:10:20 PM
"How are you today?" with a smile on my face. That's what I'd ask him.

No, I do not believe he should be put to death. Locked up for protection reasons, yes, but in general, I am against the death penalty. You don't have to agree with me, but this is what I believe is to be the best way.

However, his fate relies entirely in the hands of the authorities now, and as Christians we are called to submit to authority so..

I guess the best thing we can do is pray for him.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Brandie on January 28, 2004, 02:33:23 PM
What would I ask him?  

May I pray with you?

As for his punishment, I don't think it's our place to try him.  I think the Iraqi's who have been terrorized by him all these years should have that singular pleasure.  If I were on the jury, I'd want to see him hang.  An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, is what the Bible says, right?  Personally, I support the death penalty for capital crimes, then again, I'm from Texas where we not only have the death penalty, we use it; there's even an express lane for especially heinous crimes (killing a child under age 6, killing more than 1 person, killing a law officer, etc...)


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Sunny on January 28, 2004, 03:17:10 PM
I like your question to Saddam Brandi!

As far as an eye for an eye.. The bible does say that, you're right. But then it goes on to say, but I tell you; turn the other cheek.
Although it's very tempting to feel that way, especially in Saddams case, ultimately it is talking about not repaying evil for evil.  ;)

"You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Matt 5:38-39

I would probably ask Saddam to tell me about a time when he felt most loved. Then I would ask him his definition of love. ?
And then share with him Gods definition of what love is.

(Not sure if it would fall of deaf ears or not. He seems to have a pretty disgustingly hard heart.. very sad.  :'( )


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: I Brake for Jesus on January 28, 2004, 03:17:44 PM
What would I ask him?  

May I pray with you?

As for his punishment, I don't think it's our place to try him.  I think the Iraqi's who have been terrorized by him all these years should have that singular pleasure.  If I were on the jury, I'd want to see him hang.  An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, is what the Bible says, right?  Personally, I support the death penalty for capital crimes, then again, I'm from Texas where we not only have the death penalty, we use it; there's even an express lane for especially heinous crimes (killing a child under age 6, killing more than 1 person, killing a law officer, etc...)

Hehe, that's a good one.

Just remember that Jesus addressed that verse. That's all I had to say.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Brandie on January 28, 2004, 03:19:55 PM
Excellent point, Sunny & Jen...thanks for the reminder!


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Willowbirch on January 29, 2004, 12:22:56 PM
If you were to meet Mr. Sadam. What would you ask him?

Do you think he should be put to death?
I agree that it would be wonderful if he could find Christ, but he would still need to pay for the wrongs he did here. He was a very cruel man for a very long time, and while I personally have no unkindnesses to blame him for, a lot of other people do.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: sincereheart on January 29, 2004, 02:51:46 PM
Let's also not forget:
Romans 13:1-7
Submission to the Authorities

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the
authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then
respect; if honor, then honor.


But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.





Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Symphony on January 29, 2004, 04:44:59 PM

Yep.  Do you know Jesus?   :)


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: I Brake for Jesus on January 30, 2004, 09:15:49 PM
Just because there will be consequences, doesn't mean they're should be.

Meh.. Jesus is the judge of the world. He knows our hearts and intentions and understands that we make mistakes- really big ones sometimes.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: sincereheart on January 31, 2004, 07:04:05 AM
Just because there will be consequences, doesn't mean they're should be.

I'm not sure what you mean here....  :-\

Meh.. Jesus is the judge of the world. He knows our hearts and intentions and understands that we make mistakes- really big ones sometimes.

Surely you're not saying Saddam just made some mistakes? :-X


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: I Brake for Jesus on January 31, 2004, 10:00:44 AM
I'm saying that I don't believe it is our place to do anything to Sadam. I think that Paul would agree with us here. I mean, come on, Paul was a murderer. So was, who was it? Abraham or Moses? There are so many great Biblical leaders that killed. If we killed them as in "eye for an eye", things wouldn't have turned out the way they did. Yes, I am saying that Sadam made mistakes, a lot of them, and really big ones, but I am no better than Sadam and I deserve Hell just as much as he does. ANYONE can be used by God. And it's not our place to destroy that possibility. Besides, how can you reach someone you're going to kill? I say confine him, lock him up, but for God's sake, that's not our place to kill him! Our very Lord and Savior told us not to react with violence to violence. So what are you promoting by supporting the death penalty? The very opposite of our Lord and God. In these rare instances where Paul and Jesus contradict eachother, do as Paul would have wanted (see the "some say "i follow paul" and others still "I follow Apollos!" verse) and follow Christ.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: sincereheart on February 01, 2004, 07:19:28 AM
Hmmmm..... that was a passionate plea for mercy for Saddam.  :)

What about hardened hearts?



Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: I Brake for Jesus on February 01, 2004, 10:27:48 AM
What about hardened hearts? All justice will be done at judgement and none will complain about how they were wronged.  

The Bible explicitly warns us about anger, about it's foothold to the devil. We should not make decisions, especially regarding someone else's life, in it.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: sincereheart on February 01, 2004, 01:03:51 PM
What about hardened hearts?

Hmmmm..... Never mind.

So we put the Hitler's and the Hussein's and Manson's and Dhamer's in a prison?

What happens if the prisons get filled?


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Psalm 119 on February 01, 2004, 01:51:35 PM
God's Word is very clear, that whoever sheds innocent blood, his blood is to be shed. For there is no peace without justice.

Saddam should have a public televised trial, by a jury of his peers. And once a verdict (guilty?) is given, he should be publically executed with a sword. For those who live by the sword should die by the sword.

The death penalty is not vengeance, it's justice, and a deterrent to those who commit such heinous crimes as Saddam has done.

The blood of thousands are crying from the ground.

Psalm 119


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: ebia on February 01, 2004, 04:10:18 PM
Surely its up to the people he most hurt - the people of Iraq - to decide how to try him.  The role of the west is to assist them in ensuring it is fair and just, and is seen to be such.

Quote
Saddam should have a public televised trial, by a jury of his peers. And once a verdict (guilty?) is given, he should be publically executed with a sword. For those who live by the sword should die by the sword.
's not a trial if you've already decided the verdict and sentence.  It seems inconceivable that anything other than guilty is appropriate, but if there is no possibility of anything else then its not a fair trial.

And how is justice served by televising it.  That only serves to make a fair trial harder.   It should be recorded, so that it can be proved to be fair if that is ever disputed, but televising it is nothing more than voyerism.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Symphony on February 01, 2004, 06:05:20 PM

televising it is nothing more than voyerism


ooooooohhh......     :-[     :-X


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Psalm 119 on February 01, 2004, 07:01:41 PM
Surely its up to the people he most hurt - the people of Iraq - to decide how to try him.  The role of the west is to assist them in ensuring it is fair and just, and is seen to be such.

Quote
Saddam should have a public televised trial, by a jury of his peers. And once a verdict (guilty?) is given, he should be publically executed with a sword. For those who live by the sword should die by the sword.
's not a trial if you've already decided the verdict and sentence.  It seems inconceivable that anything other than guilty is appropriate, but if there is no possibility of anything else then its not a fair trial.

And how is justice served by televising it.  That only serves to make a fair trial harder.   It should be recorded, so that it can be proved to be fair if that is ever disputed, but televising it is nothing more than voyerism.



Voyerism usually denotes a form of sexual perversion. How would televising Saddam's execution fall into that category?

When Saddam's son's bodies were displayed for the world to see, it provided closure for some of their victims. (Those women who were raped,  became pregnant, then had their babies murdered before their eyes.) The people of Iraq deserve to have a visual picture, so they can sleep better.

AS far as a trial goes.... he should have a jury of his peers (Iraqi's). The Iraqi's should be the ones who execute the sentence out.

Psalm 119


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: ebia on February 02, 2004, 04:26:59 AM
Quote
Voyerism usually denotes a form of sexual perversion. How would televising Saddam's execution fall into that category?
You're taking my words a bit more literally than I intended.
Watching someone else's humiliation, however well deserved, for entertainment is out of order, IMO.

Quote
When Saddam's son's bodies were displayed for the world to see, it provided closure for some of their victims. (Those women who were raped,  became pregnant, then had their babies murdered before their eyes.) The people of Iraq deserve to have a visual picture, so they can sleep better.
The people of Iraq, perhaps (though I think they would be better served by seeing the outcome - the body if that's what it is, or his incarceration, than the trial).  The western world doesn't have that excuse.

Quote
AS far as a trial goes.... he should have a jury of his peers (Iraqi's). The Iraqi's should be the ones who execute the sentence out.
Absolutely, but televising it will make it just about impossible to have a fair trial, as high profile televised trials in other countries that allow such things have shown.  It will be a long trial (there will be masses of evidence to go through), it's inevitable then, that you will have to replace some of the jury along the way, it will be impossible to find anyone impartial if you televise it as it happens ('s going to be close to impossible anyway).   Once its all over, you can show some highlights to the iraqi people if you want.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: I Brake for Jesus on February 02, 2004, 08:33:44 PM
Who are you going to listen to? Paul,  or Jesus?  :'(


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: sincereheart on February 03, 2004, 08:02:24 AM
Surely its up to the people he most hurt - the people of Iraq - to decide how to try him.  The role of the west is to assist them in ensuring it is fair and just, and is seen to be such.

Yes, it is up to the people of Iraq. However, we do have the right to discuss the options.... ;)

The Bible explicitly warns us about anger, about it's foothold to the devil.

Who said anything about anger?  ???

I say confine him, lock him up, but for God's sake, that's not our place to kill him!

Brings to mind wild animals... Is it better to lock up an animal that is rabid? Is it better to lock up the dog that attacks children? The cougar that attacks innocent animals? Just keep them locked up for the rest of their life... Snarling and jumping at the walls, being in misery and pain, foaming at the mouth, but let's not harm the animal....  ::)


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: I Brake for Jesus on February 03, 2004, 02:23:58 PM
that's not a fair comparison. human life is worth more than animal life.

when i questioned the whole hardened hearts thing... my answer was the foothold verse. you want to kill sadam because you are outraged over the things he has done. and you shoud make decisions dispassionately.


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: sincereheart on February 04, 2004, 07:37:47 AM
you want to kill sadam because you are outraged over the things he has done.

"You" being who?           ('whom' didn't flow ;))


and you shoud make decisions dispassionately.

And intelligently....


Do you pray for Satan's salvation?  ::)


Again I ask:

So we put the Hitler's and the Hussein's and Manson's and Dhamer's in a prison?

What happens if the prisons get filled?


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: Psalm 119 on February 04, 2004, 12:54:04 PM
I Brake For Jesus,

The Bible is the guide book on punishment for crime. The reason God gave certain mandates is for the victims. God is a merciful God, but He is also just.

I would encourage you to read Deuteronomy 21 :1-9 The law of an unsolved murder.

The Bible is also clear about pre-meditated murder, and manslaughter (accidental).

If I were to err, I would err on the side of the victims, not the perpetrators.

Psalm 119

Question? Can you find anywhere in the Bible where one of God's servants did not execute justice, but rather led the murderer in a "sinners prayer"


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: ebia on February 06, 2004, 12:56:13 AM
you want to kill sadam because you are outraged over the things he has done.

"You" being who?           ('whom' didn't flow ;))


and you shoud make decisions dispassionately.

And intelligently....


Do you pray for Satan's salvation?  ::)


Again I ask:

So we put the Hitler's and the Hussein's and Manson's and Dhamer's in a prison?

What happens if the prisons get filled?

The prisons are filled, but not with the likes of him.  The people who fill the prisons are the people who have comitted small crimes - would you kill all of those?


Title: Re:Sadam
Post by: sincereheart on February 06, 2004, 06:39:34 AM
The prisons are filled, but not with the likes of him.

Yes, the prisons ARE filled! And more are being built regularly...

The people who fill the prisons are the people who have comitted small crimes - would you kill all of those?

No, why don't YOU answer this time?  ;) What should be done with Saddam - hypothetically, of course. Should he be put in the prison systems with others who have committed less heinous crimes? Those who will serve their sentence and jump back into society? Or should he (hypothetically) be housed on Death Row and be given all the freebies that come with a lifetime sentence?