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Theology => General Theology => Topic started by: smartinez1984 on January 19, 2004, 01:48:09 PM



Title: The Power of Satan
Post by: smartinez1984 on January 19, 2004, 01:48:09 PM
Our Sunday School lesson this past Sunday centered around Corinthians and the fact that we do not battle against flesh but instead are fighting a spiritual war. The teacher mentioned more than a few times that Satan caused him to do certain things during his youth, that Satan was in control of him (referencing slaves of the devil), etc. He also mentioned that Abel's murder at the hands of Cain was the result of Satan driving Cain to do it. I thought that was interesting.

So, being the ever questioning fella, I asked the question:

What can Satan do and what can he not do?

I had general questions like:

As a Christian, can Satan (or his demons) directly influence my thoughts?

Can he/they manipulate my dreams or cause them?

Can a Christian be possessed?

Etc., etc.

I've done a quick "google" search but work impedes me from really digging into it and I've not found anything really substantial. If someone can point me to some good reference material (preferrably online), that would be fantastic!

God Bless,

-Samson


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: JudgeNot on January 19, 2004, 02:01:11 PM
Samson,
I think you bring up a good subject.  We as Christians must be ever vigilant of Satan and his angels – they are a tricky bunch.  Satan’s greatest tool is that of ‘unbelief’.  The devil will take advantage of those who do not believe in him.  It is very important to be aware that Satan is always whispering in our ears – even as Christians – trying to draw us off of and keep us off of the “narrow path of righteousness”.  Then, when we slip just a little, Satan is “in God’s face” saying “see there – those people you call saints are such a sorry lot – they don’t love you – they belong to me!  Forget them – give them all to me!”  
God is not fooled, however, and through the Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, as Christians we should not be afraid of Satan.  

I always use an ounce of prevention in my daily prayers:  “By the Blood of Jesus Christ I command you to get thee behind me Satan!”  Yes!  You as a Christian have control over Satan and can order him away.  Praise the Lord!


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Petro on January 20, 2004, 01:46:24 AM
Quote
Our Sunday School lesson this past Sunday centered around Corinthians and the fact that we do not battle against flesh but instead are fighting a spiritual war. The teacher mentioned more than a few times that Satan caused him to do certain things during his youth, that Satan was in control of him (referencing slaves of the devil), etc. He also mentioned that Abel's murder at the hands of Cain was the result of Satan driving Cain to do it. I thought that was interesting.

So, being the ever questioning fella, I asked the question:

What can Satan do and what can he not do?

I had general questions like:

As a Christian, can Satan (or his demons) directly influence my thoughts?

Samson,

This is a good question..

Before we can even begin to answer such a question we should examine scripture, to see, who it is Satan can influence.

We know that he influenced Eve at  the garden, by deceiving her, note;

1 Tim 2
13  For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

How did Satan do it, by question the truth of the word of God, and causing her to doubt what God has said.

Can he influenced or cause Christians to doubt Gods word today?? .................the answer to this question is found in scripture.

Heb 12, ...................says;
1  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

What sin do you suppose this is??

Whenever a Christians question or doubtsa Gods word or what He has caused to be written, Christians commit this sin??  

What is that sin??

Quote
Can he/they manipulate my dreams or cause them?

I don't know anything about dreams, but scripture does speak of God, granting repentance to those who oppose themselves (we have a few on this forum, which do this regularly),  so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who having been taken captive by him to do his will .

Note these verses;

2 Tim 2:24-26
19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21  If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22  Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

This passage in its context, speaks to Christians; vs 21 "If a man therefore purge himself....of the things spoken of at vs 20 ,....he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Verse 22 exhorts the Christian to ........flee youthful lusts....follow righteousnes, faith charity, peace, with other Christians out of a pure heart

Avoid foolish and unlearned questions, posed by any, Christians and  those who are  NOT christians[/b],

Why??...............because they gender strife..

For what purpose??.......For the purpose of instructing those that oppose themselves;

Here are examples;

1. Those Who Hold To Theories Which Contradict Scripture Oppose Themselves.
2. Those Who Hold To Religious Doctrines Which Are Self-Contradictory Oppose Themselves.
3. Those Who Say One Thing And Do Something Else Oppose Themselves.
4. Those Who "Say And Do Not" Oppose Themselves
5. Those Who Live Sinfully When They Know Better Oppose Themselves.
6. Those Who Let Worldliness Invade Their Lives Oppose Themselves.

What is the reason for instructing these??

That, vs 25:  "God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;"

And the end result is that these;

At Vs 26  .....that they, may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Having said this let me explain, before the objections to what I have written begin...

If Christians believe we are in a spiritual war, of which the scripture is clear to teach, then just as soldiers from opposing armies, capture the enemy,  Christians can be taken captive by Satan, and since this war is for the souls of men, the bodies are the ones that are which are taken captive and destroyed, yet the spirit is preserved and saved.

Non christians, are already captive, and in bondage to Satan the Spirit that now works in the children of disobedience (Eph 2:2-3)

Christians, can be deceived and if possible seduced(Mat 13:22) by false christs and prophets, Jesus was very careful to warn His disciples

"Take heed that no man deceive you."

Who are these men, but, false prophets and false christs, who are spoken of at 2 Cor 11:13-15.


You probably want more scripture now, for what I said, here it is;

In the case of the example I am giving you, a christian who was practicing and living in sin, is literally turned over to the enemy, for the destruction of his flesh by the Apostle Paul, note;

1 Cor 5
1  It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2  And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This man, in the passage referred to by Paul, later repented and was restored to the body, we read this in 2 Cor,  no doubt God who searches hearts, found him repentant and granted to him, the ability to recover himself from the snare of the Devil. (By the way this is what happens to all those who are in bonfage to Satan).

Another one is found in ;

Acts  5
1  But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2  And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it, at the apostles' feet.
3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5  And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6  And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
7  And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
8  And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
9  Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
10  Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

Note the words at verse 3; why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost

I cannot say specifically whether, Satan entered into their hearts to cause them to lie as he did to Judas (Lk 22:3, We must be reminded that Judas, was in unbelief, he was not saved, as Christians are today.) But, clearly he deceived them, and influenced them, causing them to lie to God, and for this, both Ananias and Sapphira died.
Quote

Can a Christian be possessed?

As you can see, there are scriptures which do seem to pruport that Christians can be influenced enough to be taken captive by him (Satan),

Possessed, that is the 64,000,000 dollar question.  

My own thoughts are NO  spiritually speaking, but if he cause them to sin, and have their bodies  put to death, clearly they have been snared and  taken captive by  him.

Just as Satan, caused Moses to sin, and die, never to enter the promised land, I suspect Sapphira and Ananias's bodies were disputed over by Satan and the Angel of the Lord, as Joshua's.

Cont'd..........................


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Petro on January 20, 2004, 01:47:22 AM
It is important to point out the equipment with which God has equipped His Children;

Eph 6
10  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15  And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16  Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18  Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

A good soldier, who knows and excercises and maintains the weapons of war given to him, will be able to fight the good fight, even though he perish, but clearly, those who are on guard and live in the Lord have power to resist Satan and his host, and cause them to flee from him (the Christian), and the evil one touches them not.

Blessings,
Petro


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Petro on January 20, 2004, 01:59:07 AM
I culled this portion I am quoting, from an article years ago, i have no idea who wrote it, but perhaps this will be helpfull to you.. It relates to 2 Tim 2:24-26..

Many believe they have free will to produce repentance at will, unfortunately this is not taught in scripture, the teaching is error.


"A repentant heart is something that you can't just conjure up with sheer will power. Will power comes from the mind. True repentance comes from the heart. It is placed in the heart by God Himself. II Timothy 2:25-26 says, "...in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will." Notice again His reason for granting repentance. "...that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."

The part that those who teach "free will" do not understand  that God will grant us a repentant heart if we ask Him.

We often (or usually) think that it is up to us to develop a repentant heart, then do the repenting, then come to the Lord to ask for forgiveness.  ALL dead men can do is trust and obey.....

But this passage indicates that such is not always the case. Notice the progression of events in the verses:"


Consider these other passage of scripture;

Rom 9
6  Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9  For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10  And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14  What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.
17  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22  What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


Petro


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: ravenloche on January 20, 2004, 02:34:35 AM
Posted by: smartinez1984  Posted on: January 19, 2004, 12:48:09 PM  
Our Sunday School lesson this past Sunday centered around Corinthians and the fact that we do not battle against flesh but instead are fighting a spiritual war. The teacher mentioned more than a few times that Satan caused him to do certain things during his youth, that Satan was in control of him (referencing slaves of the devil), etc. He also mentioned that Abel's murder at the hands of Cain was the result of Satan driving Cain to do it. I thought that was interesting.

So, being the ever questioning fella, I asked the question:

What can Satan do and what can he not do?

I had general questions like:

As a Christian, can Satan (or his demons) directly influence my thoughts?

Can he/they manipulate my dreams or cause them?

Can a Christian be possessed?

Etc., etc.

I've done a quick "google" search but work impedes me from really digging into it and I've not found anything really substantial. If someone can point me to some good reference material (preferrably online), that would be fantastic!

God Bless,

-Samson  
 
 
 
 
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

This is the only answer that I will present from the scriptures.
Satan has no more power of any kind upon us, except that
which we allow him to have.

He goes about the scriptures tell us as a roaring lion, seeking
whom he may devour.  An interesting point of fact--only those
lions who are too old to hunt, too weak, or too slow, or too
injured are the ones who roar! Those who can hunt circle the
prey, and then the lions roar to frighten the prey into running.
We do not need to run when satan roars, he has no power.

Jesus defeated him totally at calvary, "it is finished"
This is the truth of the word of God; now all we have to do is
step into the truth of that word!

respectfully yours in Yeshua:
 :)ravenloche :)


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: smartinez1984 on January 20, 2004, 01:30:26 PM
So I try to corrolate what happened to Job, Judas, and Ananias & Saphira. It seems that in every occasion in which Satan wreaked his havoc upon Job he had to first consult with God before doing so.

Why would it be any different with any other individual? I believe, first of all, that nothing occurs on this earth, universe, or anywhere in time and space without the stamp of approval from God.

Which brings to question the events that took place with Judas, Ananias, and Saphira. I understand the bible says that Satan put the desire to lie in the hearts of Ananias & Saphira. What exactly does that mean?

An earlier quote in this thread states ""A repentant heart is something that you can't just conjure up with sheer will power. Will power comes from the mind. True repentance comes from the heart. It is placed in the heart by God Himself. "

What is the difference between the heart and the mind in the quote above? We cannot be talking of the piece of muscle that beats in our chest, can we?

If Satan is able to manipulate the minds of people in order to do his will (even if it means only non-christians), then why only do it to the minds of some?

Why not put murder in the heart of every individual out there as opposed to only a few?

Maybe it all goes back to Job. Maybe he wants to but God is saying "No". Ok, not maybe, but being the evil one that he is, I'm sure he WANTS to destroy every being in site before they have an opportunity to come to Christ.

So that must mean that God allows some to be possessed, some to be coerced to murder, others to steal, others to injure, others to become politicians :) (just a joke...)...etc.

Which reminds me, if Satan had no fear of confronting Jesus after He had fasted in the dessert, why should he have fear of confronting any of us? He did not manipulate the thoughts of Jesus. It seems that all the mind games were being played from outside but never did he get in and manipulate the mind itself.

Is it the same with us? We can be tempted from without but cannot be manipulated from within? But then what of Ananias & Saphira, or Judas?

Sigh...

God Bless,

-Samson


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: 2nd Timothy on January 20, 2004, 04:52:22 PM
Very good topic.

I think Petro hit on a key verse in one of his posts.  It is very much spiritual warefar we are engaged in.  Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail against his church.  Note, that gates are not used to attack, but to defend.  We are christian soldiers under Gods command, and we are leading an attack into enemy territory...spiritual territory!

I like the verse Petro quoted...

Eph 6:12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

These are the enemy troops who defend against Gods army.

Eph 6:13  Therefore take to yourselves the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14  Therefore stand, having your loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness

Truth and righteousness.  Only aquired through a life in christ.

Eph 6:15  and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

The gospel of peace prepares us and will guide our steps and keep us on the course.

Eph 6:16  Above all, take the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

The shield of faith.  A soldier without it, will not be able to block the darts or arrows shot at him.  

Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God,

The real helmet protects a soldiers most vital part.  The head.  A head shot would be fatal without it.  Salvation is our very life.  All of these list defensive protection.  Now, the sword our weapon in which to attack the enemy.   Gods sword is sharper than any two edged sword, and knowing it well can make us leathal against the enemy.

Eph 6:18  praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching to this very thing with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.

Praying ALWAYS!  This is our life line with the commander and chief.  The spirit can guide us in prayer in time of need, and even when we don't know whats being ploted against us.  We also need to look out for our brothers, and come to their aid.


This fully armored soldier will not be stopped by the enemy.  He is prepared with all the necessary pieces of equipment to do battle.  Leaving any piece of armor or weapon behind, will hinder his success.  Satan knowing he has already been defeated by Jesus as ravenloche says, will search for weakness in our armour.  If he finds any area lacking, he can and will attack that area.  God has provided all the pieces of equipment necessary for us to win.  Its up to us to utilize all of Gods armour, and march on!  The gates of hell cannot stand against this well prepared church!

Grace and Peace!


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Petro on January 21, 2004, 01:57:45 AM
Quote
So I try to corrolate what happened to Job, Judas, and Ananias & Saphira. It seems that in every occasion in which Satan wreaked his havoc upon Job he had to first consult with God before doing so.

Why would it be any different with any other individual? I believe, first of all, that nothing occurs on this earth, universe, or anywhere in time and space without the stamp of approval from God.

Which brings to question the events that took place with Judas, Ananias, and Saphira. I understand the bible says that Satan put the desire to lie in the hearts of Ananias & Saphira. What exactly does that mean?
I know that you know these verses, but I will share them with you by way of recollection;
James 1
12  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tested, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
1Cor 10
12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
13  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

From the verses above it is clear, that the man tested by God, is one whom He allows satan to tempt with evil. In the case of Judas, he failed then test and perished, depending on whether you believe Aninias and Sapphira were believers sealed by the Holy Spirit will determine how you view whether they died physically but there souls were saved, or whether they died both physically and spiritually, the scriptures sare clear they were believers, and because of they were numbered with those who, laid their possessions at the Apostles feet.  

Quote
An earlier quote in this thread states ""A repentant heart is something that you can't just conjure up with sheer will power. Will power comes from the mind. True repentance comes from the heart. It is placed in the heart by God Himself. "

What is the difference between the heart and the mind in the quote above? We cannot be talking of the piece of muscle that beats in our chest, can we?
The heart is the seat of the emotions of men, the will is not a product of the mind, but of the heart, this is why men cannot understand truth, lets look at 2 Tim 2:25-26, again;

 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;  
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

How is it that all of the apostles willingly gave their lives for what they belived, accepting death rather than denying the truth.
It is because God gave them a new heart ( He circumcised their hearts), and put a new Spirit within them, just as He pas promised.

Jer 31
26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Rom 2
28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.





Quote
If Satan is able to manipulate the minds of people in order to do his will (even if it means only non-christians), then why only do it to the minds of some?
You try to rationalize it, like the natural man does, but notice that they are all in unbelief, whether a murderer, or a thief, or an idolater, and unless Godf works in their heart they shall all perish in unbelief, they will not be judged for what they were, but for there works. (Rev 20:12)
Quote
Why not put murder in the heart of every individual out there as opposed to only a few?
Who can answer this question?  Every unsaved person is capable of murder, I dare say neven the saved, could murder.

Quote
Maybe it all goes back to Job. Maybe he wants to but God is saying "No". Ok, not maybe, but being the evil one that he is, I'm sure he WANTS to destroy every being in site before they have an opportunity to come to Christ.

So that must mean that God allows some to be possessed, some to be coerced to murder, others to steal, others to injure, others to become politicians (just a joke...)...etc.

Which reminds me, if Satan had no fear of confronting Jesus after He had fasted in the dessert, why should he have fear of confronting any of us? He did not manipulate the thoughts of Jesus. It seems that all the mind games were being played from outside but never did he get in and manipulate the mind itself.
Jesus answered every temptation of the Devil, with the words with;
"It is written....", we need to know the sciptures to answer in the same way, when tempted.
Quote
Is it the same with us? We can be tempted from without but cannot be manipulated from within? But then what of Ananias & Saphira, or Judas?

Sigh...

God Bless,

-Samson

The unsaved belong to the evil one, those whom God has given to Jesus belong to Him, and are kept by the hand of God, Jesus said;

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one. (Jhn 10:27-30)


Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.  (Jhn 10:1-5)

We know the evil one causes the death and suffering of the Saints of God, and it is because God tests them who are tempted by Satan, pure simple, that is the way it is, because God ordained it, and He has chosen this is the way it is, to be.

Blessings,

Petro


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Allinall on January 21, 2004, 09:13:48 AM
Well put Tim!  God is good and His defense even better Brother.  As for the question posted, I think it is best for us to remember what James said:

Quote
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.  Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.

James 1:13-16

We tend to lose focus in this matter many times.  God doesn't lure us to sin but Satan does.  Here's the problem.  The Devil didn't make us do it!!  According to James, we sin when we are drawn away by our lusts.  Satan doesn't cause us to sin, he simply makes the objects of our lusting more readily available.  The choice is always ours.   :)


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: 2nd Timothy on January 21, 2004, 09:46:29 AM
Quote
We tend to lose focus in this matter many times.  God doesn't lure us to sin but Satan does.  Here's the problem.  The Devil didn't make us do it!!  According to James, we sin when we are drawn away by our lusts.  Satan doesn't cause us to sin, he simply makes the objects of our lusting more readily available.  The choice is always ours.  

Good stuff guys!  I like this thread.   When Satan tempted Jesus, he apealed to his desires just as you say here Allinall.  He also waited till Jesus was hungry and at a time of weakness.  Apealing to his hunger he asked Jesus to make the stones into bread...and so on.

Satan knows our desires and weaknesses and will try to use these things against us.   Its up to us to resist him.  

Jam 4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

And look for the escape we are promised.

1Co 10:13  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

What a blessed promise!  He will not suffer us to be tempted above what we are able to bare, but rather makes a way for us to escape it.   I'm not sure how others feel about this, but I think it is possible to put more on ourselves (or add to temptation) than we are able to bear.   If we miss the exit sign, or the escape promised in Cor., we will soon reach a breaking point and give into the temptation.

Any thoughts on this?

Grace and Peace!


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: smartinez1984 on January 21, 2004, 01:14:13 PM
I agree, interesting stuff!

From the last few replies to this thread it appears that the general consensus is that Satan cannot ENTER the mind to manipulate it but that all of his work occurs from the outside, i.e. temptations, coersions, etc. This would mean that we have the power through Jesus Christ to overcome. I would imagine the same does not apply to those who are not saved, true?

What then of the previous verses relevant to Judas, etc.? It seems to imply/state that Satan took control somehow. Yet, one has to believe that there was always the opportunity for Judas to step back and say "No, I will NOT betray the Master!".

But is that scripture stating somehow that Judas was possessed? If so, then Judas no longer had control over his mind and would have required someone with faith and power to cast Satan out, no?

Is it correct to state that Satan always has the power (given by God) to tempt and coerse from OUTSIDE the body?

Is it correct to state that Satan cannot TOUCH the body unless given explicit permission by God? In other words, he doesn't have free reign to touch us unlike he has free reign to tempt us. Maybe?

Ok, gotta get back to work for now. Thanks for all the replies!

God Bless,

-Samson


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: 2nd Timothy on January 21, 2004, 05:04:00 PM
Quote
But is that scripture stating somehow that Judas was possessed? If so, then Judas no longer had control over his mind and would have required someone with faith and power to cast Satan out, no?

Interesting question.  The only thing that comes to mind is the following verse.

Joh 6:70  Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? And one of you is a devil?
Joh 6:71  But he spoke of Judas Iscariot,[.....]

Grace and Peace!


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Petro on January 22, 2004, 12:46:08 AM
I agree, interesting stuff!

From the last few replies to this thread it appears that the general consensus is that Satan cannot ENTER the mind to manipulate it but that all of his work occurs from the outside, i.e. temptations, coersions, etc. This would mean that we have the power through Jesus Christ to overcome. I would imagine the same does not apply to those who are not saved, true?

What then of the previous verses relevant to Judas, etc.? It seems to imply/state that Satan took control somehow. Yet, one has to believe that there was always the opportunity for Judas to step back and say "No, I will NOT betray the Master!".

But is that scripture stating somehow that Judas was possessed? If so, then Judas no longer had control over his mind and would have required someone with faith and power to cast Satan out, no?

Samson,

I see you still have not grasped this; let me give it to you plainly;

Lk 22
3  Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Judas was a devil, remember?? mHe never believed Jesus...he perished in UNBELIEF.  No purgatory for him...

Jhn 6
70  Jesus answered them,  Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?



Quote
Is it correct to state that Satan always has the power (given by God) to tempt and coerse from OUTSIDE the body?

Samson,

Everyone who is outside of the FAITH belongs to Satan, because they are dead in tresspass and sin, note the language that Jesus uses of those that do not believe  Him, begining with those who did those that did;

Jhn 6
20  These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21  Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22  Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23  And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24  I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25  Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26  I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27  They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28  Then said Jesus unto them,  When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29  And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30  As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Notice verse 30;  Jesus spoke to all of these, who were unbelievers, concerning His Father, and many believed as He spoke these words,

but..........................;those who did not believe answered him, thus;

33  ..........................We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34  Jesus answered them,  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35  And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36  If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37  I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39  They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them,  If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40  But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41  Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45  And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46  Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47  He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


 
Everyone that does not belong to  Jesus belongs to the Devil, and the Devil, Satan, the Evil One does as he please with his own, because the scriptures teaches plainly that they are in bondage to sin; Jesus promises to set free those who come to Him trusting His words....

Can you see it now??

Quote
Is it correct to state that Satan cannot TOUCH the body unless given explicit permission by God? In other words, he doesn't have free reign to touch us unlike he has free reign to tempt us. Maybe?

Ok, gotta get back to work for now. Thanks for all the replies!

God Bless,

-Samson

The Apostle made it clear who the body of those who belong to Jesus belongs to, here let me give the scripture;

1 Cor 6
19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20  For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

How about this one;

Rom 8
12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13  if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


God will never give a Christians body up to the Devil, because He has promised to raise it in glory this does not mean that this body will not see physical death, however a child of God who habitually sins, will pay the price for his sin and it usually is thru affliction of the body, , simply stated sin is the reason why this body must die, the body that lives unto the flesh will die, but the spirit will be saved, the body that mortifies the deeds of the body shall live until the time appointed by the Lord, since He has "appointed the bounds and the times of our habittation on this earth." Acts 17:26.

Nobody will leave this earth alive.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Cor 15:53-57)


The flesh profiteth nothing, it is the spirit that giveth life



Blessings,

Petro



Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: smartinez1984 on January 23, 2004, 08:59:20 AM
Petro,

Many thanks for all the info!

The one remaining that I have on this is related to your message

"Everyone that does not belong to  Jesus belongs to the Devil, and the Devil, Satan, the Evil One does as he please with his own, because the scriptures teaches plainly that they are in bondage to sin"

If this is the case, when or how does an individual that belongs to Satan get to make a conscious effort to call out to Jesus for rescue? That would have to mean that:

1. Satan does NOT have complete control but that God has complete control and that Satan only THINKS he has complete control.

2. Satan DOES have complete control and a lost individual has no chance until God decides it's time to draw him to Christ, in which case Satan's hold is temporarily broken until the individuals decides to heed the call of God to accept Jesus, or not.

If "1" is true, then an individual who has yet to accept Christ has no recourse, no power, no ability to choose... no free-will?

But wait, if number "2" is true then... no free will either?

So, who has control, Satan or God? How much control over his decisions does an individual have?

Thanks again!

God Bless,

-Samson


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Petro on January 25, 2004, 06:46:14 AM
Quote
Petro,

Many thanks for all the info!

The one remaining that I have on this is related to your message

"Everyone that does not belong to Jesus belongs to the Devil, and the Devil, Satan, the Evil One does as he please with his own, because the scriptures teaches plainly that they are in bondage to sin"

If this is the case, when or how does an individual that belongs to Satan get to make a conscious effort to call out to Jesus for rescue?

Samson,

You have asked excellent questions, which really excersice the senses, and this is what Christians should excersice each other to do, to read, study and search the Word of God for the answers to questions, which come to mind in the course of everday living.

to your question;

Quote
...when or how does an individual that belongs to Satan get to make a conscious effort to call out to Jesus for rescue

The first thing that must be understood, is the portriat the bible paints, concerning those who are unsaved, lets see, what is says; (I am only going to give one or two verse to make the point, there are others which reinforce the teaching of these truths, but I will post the ones which clearly tell us

1.  Speaking, those who do not belong to Jesus,  are Spiritually dead in tresspass and sins; Eph 2:1-7,  Col2:13,

2.  And, Because they are dead spiritually they are unable to receive, know nor discern the things of God, because God is a spirit, and the things that pertain to God are spiritual.  1 Cor 2:14, Jhn 8:43.

3.  Because they are dead, they cannot see, neither hear, nor undertsand, this is why Jesus spoke in parables.  Mat 13:13-15, Jhn 8:43-47

4.  Spiritual understanding is not done with the physical brain (it is not like working up a math problem, although some seem to think so) since blindness is not only of the mind (2 Cor 4:3-4), but, of the heart Eph 4:18, and so spiritual things cannot be understood  unless God intervenes and,gives understanding Lk 8:10 and so,  Jesus said;

God must give seeing so that they can see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart,[/b].  Mat 13:15
And unbelief and blindeness is do to hardness of heart
Mk 16:14.

5.  But only when God gives ears to hear and eyes to see, and opens the  understanding that man can truly  understand the things of God written in the scriptures (Lk24:45), and it is done thru the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe God. (1 Cor 1:21)

Only then can anyone trust in Jesus, they must believe God Words spoken by His Son.. (Eph 1:13)  Jesus is the LIVING WORD

So, if ever you desire to know the sequence, there it is at verse 13, consider the disciples of Jesus, they all believed in God, but did not believe in Jesus (Jhn 14:1), and it wasn't until after He rose from the dead that they believed HIM, some imediately on the same day He arose, other days later, the sciptures are clear about this. see (Mk 16:14, Jhn 2:22, Jhn 20:8) Thomas believed (and repented) in Jesus, 8 days after the reseurrection (Jhn 20:25-26)

Not all people come to faith in Jesus at the same time they trust in Gods Word, but when they do  trust His Words spoken by Jesus, He gives them the wherewithall to believe in Jesus, to the saving of the soul.  

Man cannot produce this type of FAITH.  Thou some would have you believe this.

So, the answer to your question is;  When they believe Gods words spoken by Jesus. He gives eyes to see, ears to hear, and understanding in the heart to percieve, that they might be converted and be healed (Isa 6:9-10)

In essence they pass from death unto life; (Jhn 5:24-25), Jesus delivering them from the power of darkenss to the kingdom of His dear son.(Col 1;13)

In another discussion the following verses are used to describe being set free by Christ;

2 Tim 2
24  ..... the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26  And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And this is clearly speaking of believers, who have fallen into sin.

Quote
That would have to mean that:

1. Satan does NOT have complete control but that God has complete control and that Satan only THINKS he has complete control.

2. Satan DOES have complete control and a lost individual has no chance until God decides it's time to draw him to Christ, in which case Satan's hold is temporarily broken until the individuals decides to heed the call of God to accept Jesus, or not.

If "1" is true, then an individual who has yet to accept Christ has no recourse, no power, no ability to choose... no free-will?

But wait, if number "2" is true then... no free will either?

So, who has control, Satan or God? How much control over his decisions does an individual have?

Thanks again!

God Bless,

-Samson  

samson,

Do not be decieved by doctrines of men, this is what Jesus commanded, if you allow yourself to be deceived you become as a child of disobedience.(Eph 5:6-8)

Free will is a pipe dream, taught by those who, do not recognize the great truths of scripture, if men are dead spiritually speaking, they are completely helpless to decide anything, you must decide to believe what is true, either man is dead or not, if not then, I suppose he could will (make no mistake about it, men can believe all sorts of different things, but they will never believe God, that is what God says, and He should know, [Rom 3:10-14])

, himself to believe something, but there is no support for this theory in scripture.

If men are dead, then Satan has complete and total control over them, and this is clearly taught by scripture at (Eph 2:1-9)

I have never heard of a dead man, being able to will himself back to life again.  

It can only happen by the supernatural intervention of God, calling that individual to life just as Jesus did to Lazarus . (Jhn 11:43),

If it is true we were dead in tresspass and sins before God saved us, then He did it all, there is nothing we did that got us saved.

He chose, He called, He gave saving Faith, He gave Eternal Life. He will preserve, He will raise us up our bodies again at the last day.

And this can only be if you believe the truth of Gods Word!

Blessings,
Petro


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: smartinez1984 on January 27, 2004, 10:25:41 AM
Petro,

Sorry for the late reply... this thing called a job keeps getting in the way...:)

Thanks for the insight as well.

All the info you give indicates that man does NOT have free will. But at the very end you say that man must believe in order to be set free. How can that be the case if there is no free will?

Sorry, just confused.

-Samson


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Petro on January 27, 2004, 01:53:14 PM
Petro,

Sorry for the late reply... this thing called a job keeps getting in the way...:)

Thanks for the insight as well.

All the info you give indicates that man does NOT have free will. But at the very end you say that man must believe in order to be set free. How can that be the case if there is no free will?

Sorry, just confused.

-Samson

samson,

The word believe, is used synonmously with the word trust, they can be and are used interchangeably in scripture since both in the greek can mean and do mean believe in the english.

Trust can be defined to believe without commiting ones self;

eg:  In the telling of a popular little story given by christians as an example while depicting a teaching of Saving belief,  christians make the point graphically, note;

"A certain man walking a tight rope high above the ground, pushes a wheelbarrow, back and forth several times, to the ammazement of the crowds below, at the end of every crossing, the question is given to the crowd, "Do you believe he is able to cross pushing the wheelbarrow one more time, and everyone answers; YES indeed."

Because all have seen him do it several times.  So it can be said they believe.

"Then the next question is asked of the crowd;

"Is there anyone who will climb into the wheelbarrow and allow him to push you across, while you sit in it?"

Only the person/s who, BELIEVE would do it.

I am sure this story has many spins to it, but the point is that, we can see two types of believing here;

1. Believing without committing oneself, those who had seeing him cross from one side to the other, believed because they had seen it with there own eyes. But no amount of coaxing will convince them to clinb into the wheelbarrow, yet they believe he can do it.

This is the way the Natural (unsaved) man lives his life..it is not the kind of FAITH the bible sepaks of when coming to God.

Ask yourself;

Can this type of belief save a person??

on the other hand, we have another type of belief;

2. Believing with commitment those who are willing to climb into the wheel barrow are as those, who show saving faith, they simply trust or believe such, that they have entrusted or committed their very lives to the man pushing the wheelbarrow, who in this case depicts God.

Belief with commitment is likened to SAVING FAITH, no man is able to produce it on his own because, of his sipritual condition, it isn't until God does a supernatural sanctifying work in the individual that any man can come to this kind of faith.

It is the product of Gods GRACE, and both Grace and Faith (however Grace is Gods Mercy and Longsuffering not the product of belief, since it is given as sanctification while yet in unbelief and dead in tresspasses and sin) are given to man, because Grace doesn't begin with salvation, but when God begins drawing that individual to himself thru His LIVING Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.

I will show you the scriptural basis for these to types of belief later, when I have time.

I have to break it off , now since I just received word; my 90 year old father fell and was taken to the ER for a series of cat scan.


See you...........

Petro


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: smartinez1984 on January 27, 2004, 02:31:14 PM
Petro,

My prayers are with your father...

God Bless,

-Samson


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Tog_Neve on January 28, 2004, 12:43:03 PM
Very good topic, and one that relates to a study I am in currently.  Called Bondage Breakers.  Highly recommended.

Some points I think need to be touched upon though that I agree and disagree with.

It would appear that the consensus is that Satan can only provide outside influences and not “possess” people.  I disagree with this for several reasons.  
-   We know possessions have happened, Jesus himself cast out demons.  
-   However a man possessed is not accountable for the actions that have happened in God’s eyes.  If Satan or one of his minions were to possess someone and kill 30 people, God would not hold that person accountable for the death of the 30 people for it was not that mans actions that did the killing, but Satan’s.  
-   Satan gains much more in tempting a person to commit sin because then that person did it of their own free will.  
-   Satan is not omnipotent and thus can only be in one place at a time…so his possession abilities are limited, unless he wants to do it for the long haul and take over someone for their life…which means he loses influence in other areas.

Another comment as far as Satan only providing outside influences and not entering into our minds directly to influence and such.  I do not agree with that because even a righteous man may have a lustful thought when a temptation is provided before them.  But it is the truly righteous man who overcomes that thought and cast it from his mind.  You are walking down the street and see a wallet laying on the ground with $20’s barely showing from the money section of the wallet.  There are thoughts that enter the mind that make one look around to see if anyone is watching and possibly pull the cash and drop the wallet.  I am not saying that there are not thoughts of simply looking at whos wallet it is and trying to contact that person either.  But both may enter the mind and it is up to the righteous man to cast out those that are obviously not of God and do as God would desire.  

I agree with the comments of what we should do about it and how to protect ourselves from it.  But one thing to always remember that we as Christians (for those that are) we are under a greater attack by Satan those who are not.  Those that are not are already in Satan’s clutches and it is our job to provide a shining light to those in darkness through our actions and lives.  If Satan can tarnish our living by tempting us with sin then there is untold damage that can be wreaked upon the unbelieving, as well as other believers.  Satan knows he cannot take us from God, but he also knows that if he wrecks us then we cannot effectively bring more people to God.




Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: smartinez1984 on January 28, 2004, 04:51:57 PM
Hmm... not sure if I agree with the ability of Satan to enter the mind of an individual that has been redeemed. I believe we are forgetting that our sinful human nature causes us to have evil thoughts from the INSIDE, not Satan. Remember, as long as we are alive in this human flesh we are in constant battle with this flesh, this flesh that wants to do wrong. I believe the apostle Paul makes that known, doesn't he?

Too often, I think, we give credit to Satan and his demons for actions that we commit out of our own sinful nature.

I would tend to believe, at least for now (still studying, researching), that Satan will attempt to deceive us, to lure us into evil actions, etc. from outside (as Christians). I don't believe he has the power to enter the mind, soul, or body of a Christian unless he/she turns against God and basically opens the door again.

Am I wrong here?

God Bless,

-Samson


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: 2nd Timothy on January 29, 2004, 01:57:44 AM
I tend to agree samson.

With Christ living in our hearts, Satan cannot enter us.  He can only enter an empty habitation.

Mar 3:25  And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
Mar 3:26  And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mar 3:27  No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

And of course, greater is He that is IN ME than HE that is in the world.  Satan cannot bind the holy spirit of Christ living within us and spoil his house.  This does not apply to unbelievers.  Their house is empty.

Now if a house is swept clean, or a person possesed has that spirit cast out of him, he must invite the holy spirit to move in.  Otherwise, we have the following verse...

Luk 11:24  When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
Luk 11:25  And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.  (noticed, its not occupied)
Luk 11:26  Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

And also like you say, we still suffer in our own corrupt flesh, and are tempted of our own desires.  Satan himself will tempt us at times too.

Grace and Peace!


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Tog_Neve on January 29, 2004, 01:00:44 PM
And I agree that I do not believe Satan can, or would, "enter" a Christian in the terms of possession.  What I refered to is that Satan can place sinful thoughts into our minds.  Not only can he put a temptation before us he can try and influence us as well.  When Peter was told of Jesus' pending trials in Jerusalem, Peter pulled Jesus off to the side saying that may it never be so, you should never suffer.  This after Jesus told Peter he would build His church upon the rock of Peter.  Peter is considered 'saved' already.  But what does Jesus tell Peter after being rebuked by him?  "Get behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men"

Jesus recognized that it was Satan's influence that drove Peter's words and not God.  We are told that Peter rebuked Jesus, his actions were harsh and off the cuff.  This is what Satan likes to do is try and make us speak before thinking of our words.  James tells us that our faith will produce patience.  Satan is quick and tries to make us react quickly, for he knows that a quick reaction to trial or tribulation can often lead to man exposing his sinful nature and not his spiritual nature.

By having a sinful nature does not mean that we have the natural desire to go out and kill someone but yet we hold it back.  Our sinful nature is that we want to put our own judgement over that of God.  We want to put our trust in ourselves and not that of God.  Our nature is to put our will over that of God's.  

This example is one of many that the Bible shows us where man likes to put his own judgement over that of God.  Peter at this point already understood who and what Jesus was.  But yet here in spur of the moment when told that Jesus was to suffer he jumps up grabs Jesus and pulls Him to the side and rebukes Him that He should never suffer...Satan is recognized as the author of the rebuke, that Peter did not think of what he knew, nor did he trust that God had a plan and Jesus was there for that Plan.  Satan probably put thoughts immediately into Peter's head like "WHAT!  Your Saviour cannot die, He cannot be put through pain and suffering! What good will that do for me or for anyone! I must stop Him and tell Him that does not have to be!"  

Later we also see that Peter recognizes the effects of Satan in his denial of association with Christ.  Satan tries to play on our self driven fears.  Peter is told that he will deny Christ 3 times.  But in Peter's fear of persecution he rejects that he is with Christ.  Peter was told he would do this so he knew it was coming.  He feared persecution and let that fear drive his 'knee-jerk' reaction when asked by 3 people that were of no real relevance he said he did not know Christ.  We see his fear building by the reactions he has.  Satan playing in his mind feeding the fear and bringing up things like "What a coincidence that this maiden asked me if I know Christ, she must be someone with the Jews looking to persecute me"  Then when asked again in the same day, "WOAH, 2 people asking me the same thing?!  Watch out, they are really out looking for us."  And on this second inquiry we see that he swore on an oath, and not a simple no.  Then the third time someone mentions he talks like follower of Christ, Peter thinks "I am a dead man, they will hunt me down, they can recognize me by the way I talk!" And what does he do?  He starts talking like a sailor and saying he does not know Jesus.  Then God provides the oh so subtle reminder for him.  Cock-a-doodle-doooooo.  And it all comes crashing down for Peter.  And he was upset at himself for what he had done.  It says he went out and wept bitterly, not just wept but did it bitterly.  He denied his Lord, even when he was told he would do it, he did not keep his guard up and prevent Satan from working in his life, and he denied his Savior.  A trial that produced much wisdom in Peter, a trial like what James talks about as building our faith.  Peter as the rock was firmly planted in the foundation of Christ, and would not move from that spot.

Peter is a very good example of showing how Satan can still work in a Christians life.  Satan's influence is there.  Peter was not tempted by a pretty girl, or a pot of gold, but Satan brought out his nature of defining good and evil and placing his own judgement of what is right and wrong over that of God.  


Title: Re:The Power of Satan
Post by: Sower on January 29, 2004, 03:10:47 PM
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Smartinez said -- I agree, interesting stuff!

Not "interesting stuff" but "serious business", Smartinez. Let's not underestimate the enemy, and let's not use incautious terminology. "Interesting stuff" is for the flesh. "Serious business" is for the spirit.

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From the last few replies to this thread it appears that the general consensus is that Satan cannot ENTER the mind to manipulate it but that all of his work occurs from the outside, i.e. temptations, coersions, etc. This would mean that we have the power through Jesus Christ to overcome. I would imagine the same does not apply to those who are not saved, true?

Correct. Those who are not saved by grace and washed in the blood of the Lamb are still in the kingdom of darkness, "children of disobedience", and have no power over Satan.

On the other hand, the Children of Light [believers] have Christ within.  We can and should "resist" the devil by first humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God (Jas. 4:7-10), then using the Word of God as the sword of the Spirit (Eph. 6:10-18), just as Jesus of Nazareth did in the wilderness when confronted by the enemy (Matt. 4).

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What then of the previous verses relevant to Judas, etc.? It seems to imply/state that Satan took control somehow. Yet, one has to believe that there was always the opportunity for Judas to step back and say "No, I will NOT betray the Master!".

You are forgetting that Judas was "the son of perdition" or damnation which means that he was not a saved soul, therefore under the power of Satan.  Judas had not said in his heart, as Peter proclaimed openly "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God". Judas probably thought of Jesus as another rabbi or a misguided messiah.  We do not know. The opportunity for Judas to repent and be converted was always there, but instead he lifted up his heel against Christ as prophesied by David (Ps. 41:9).

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But is that scripture stating somehow that Judas was possessed? If so, then Judas no longer had control over his mind and would have required someone with faith and power to cast Satan out, no?

When Judas made that fateful decision to betray his Lord, Satan took physical possession of Judas. Scripture states that very plainly. Judas was already self-condemned and then damned to Hell.

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Is it correct to state that Satan always has the power (given by God) to tempt and coerse from OUTSIDE the body?

No, that statement is incorrect and misrepresents the situation. God "allows" His creature Satan a limited spehere of influence and a limited scope of action against any believer [just as in the case of Job], and never can the Evil One come within a saint, since the Holy Spirit -- God Himself - resides within the believer. "Ye are the temple of the Holy Ghost".  Satan cannot "coerce" anyone to do anything -- wether believer or unbeliever.  Satan is far more subtle.  He deceives and entices. When that fails, he shows his fangs.

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Is it correct to state that Satan cannot TOUCH the body unless given explicit permission by God? In other words, he doesn't have free reign to touch us unlike he has free reign to tempt us. Maybe?

That is essentially correct. Satan as the tempter and deceiver of mankind goes about the earth like a roaring lion looking for prey.  The believer who is under the authority of Christ, yielded completely to the Holy Spirit, and fully submitted to the Word of God cannot be deceived or tempted by the Adversary.  However, when we allow the flesh to take control, Satan finds a way to manipulate us to sin.  When you see conflict and division among believers, you can be sure that the flesh is at work, and Satan is controlling and manipulating Christians like a master puppeteer.  When Paul called the Cornithians "carnal" [controlled by the flesh] that was exactly what was happening in Corinth -- strife and division among those who named the Name of Christ.