ChristiansUnite Forums

Hello All,

It sounds like there is a lot of healthy praise for and exchange of ideas about Jesus Christ happening on this site.  I thought I would drop in an see how you view the world.  

This site seems more Evangelical centered than the one I frequent most.  There are Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and even several like me; from the Church of Jesus Christ known as Mormons; on that site.  I'm curious to see how some of the discussions progress on this site in comparison to that site.  In reading the rules I don't see anything that would focus more on Evangelical protestants than on all the others here.  Are there Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Seventh Day Adventists, and possibly other Mormons posting on this site?  I'm always interested in getting different perspectives.  From what I can see as I have read some of the posts, it is not always obvious where the poster is coming from doctrinally.

I'm happy to be here and hope to say hi once in a while.  I don't have time to post extensively but I will probably focus on a few threads and join the discussion.  

Would it surprise anyone to know that I believe that Jesus Christ is fully God?  I was reading some of that discussion earlier.  

I also hope I can make some new friends here.  

Your New Friend in Christ,
Nathan

Nathan:

Welcome to this site. It is good to hear that you believe in the deity of Christ -- that He is fully God and fully sinless Man. I trust that as you read the posts from time to time, you will seriously examine the teachings of the Latter-Day Saints in light of the Word of God.

You might also want to read the testimonies of those who like Sandra and Gerald Tanner were staunch Mormons but came out of Mormonism when the Lord opened their eyes. There is a web site for former Mormons who have been saved by grace. I hope too that you can make some new friends here.

Just one other point.  All the "isms" and divisions of Christendom mean nothing to God, who examines the hearts and looks for genuine faith in Him and His only begotten Son. Tradition, dogma, and the teachings of men always seem to get in the way. The first step to a knowledge of the truth is the New Birth (John 3:1-36).

May the LORD continue to work in your heart and life.

Sower

The first step to a knowledge of the truth is the New Birth (John 3:1-36).



Ill second that.  Thank you, Sower.

Welcome Everywhit.  What does your name mean?


I don't know if you were able to catch it, Everywhit, but in timeliness to the Winter Olympics there in Utah, in February '02, The New Yorker magazine did a major in-depth article on Mormonism.  The writer interviewed your bishop(?), there in Salt Lake City, I believe it was.

Anyway, in examining the history of Mormonism, the article cited the discovery, several years ago, during excavations for a new highway  in the Utah(Oregon?) desert, the remains of a massacred wagon train.

The tradional story, apparently--if you'll pardon me--"spun" by the Mormon church, was that the wagon train, en route originally from Arkansas, was massacred by Indians.  At least, that had been the story.

According to the article, as I recall, forensics experts at the site discovered, though, because of the particular wounds to the remains of women and children found there, that apparently the men were separated from the train under promise that their families would be safe, and that all were then annihilated.  The evidence suggests that they were not killed by the Indians(arrow wounds, etc.), but apparently by other means(I don't recall exactly, i suppose gunshots).  The upshot to the discovery, or the suspicion was, that they were massacred by the Mormons, and that there was a motive(I don't recall--whether it was a territorial, or something else...).

I know that all or at least many churches have their "skeletons" in the closet.  Obviously, that's what Jesus came to save us from--our own sin.

But this article seemed fairly candid regarding the Mormon church, at least.  If you should ever get a chance to look it up( our library keeps current issues back three years).  

Oklahoma Howdy to Everywhit,

I sincerely hope you enjoy Christians Unite. I'm sure that we have many denominations here. My personal preference is to concentrate on Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour and give little significance to man's denominational tags and labels.

I would third what Brother Sower said. You will find numerous lively discussions here on the Holy Bible. I hope you enjoy them.


Tom

Everywhit,
I can honestly say that I’ve never met a Mormon I didn’t like.  Although we don’t see eye to eye – the debates are always lively, friendly and anger-free; which are the only types of debate I partake in.  I look forward to your insight.
Welcome.
 :)

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the welcomes and thoughts.
 
Sower:  I love talking about the Bible and how it applies to my beliefs and I see a great consistency there.
 
I hope I’m not giving the wrong impression.  I am very happy with the truths that I have learned in my life and I will defend, and have defended, them vigorously when needed.  I am here because I enjoy religious discussion and talking about the Bible.  I also enjoy learning why others believe what they believe.  

I am very aware of the Tanners and their work.  I find they make liberal use of half truth to stretch a point and I have seen many examples of how their data is not to be relied on.  Here is a link to an article that shows how selective they can be when they choose quotations: http://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc20.html
I have a friend who has met them and they seem like nice enough people but their scholarship leaves much to be desired.  

Symphony:  My login name comes from a quote about being clean ‘every wit.’  The ‘whit’ part is a play on my last name.  

The ‘Mountain Meadows Massacre’ which is the common name for the killing of the wagon train from Arkansas, has been a black eye in our history every since it happened.  My mother told me about it when I was about 16 years old, about 24 years ago, and the known details of the incident have not changed significantly since.  The only ‘spinning’ that has been going on is that people, like this New York Times reporter, keep resurrecting the details of the incident with supposed new information.  I have read much on the subject and the proven details of what happened have not significantly changed in more than 100 years.  People like to make a big deal of the fact that Mormons were involved, they seem to want to keep that in the public eye.  Others try to tie the Church hierarchy into the unfortunate incident just as they have tried for over a century with no luck.  I find it fascinating that this article makes it sound like it hasn’t ever come to light that there were Mormons involved until recently and the Church somehow has successfully covered it up.  Well I heard about it 24 years ago and like I said, the details have not changed in over a century.  Here is a very extensive treatise on the subject and almost all of the quotes are from well before the turn of the century: http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/ldsdefense/mmm.html
If the article is trying to make it sound like it is a new thing that we now know more than just Indians were involved then his/her scholarship is very poor and he/she is looking for sensationalism as apposed to real journalism.  By the way, if you search the above website for the name Laban Morrill, that is my great great Grandfather.  He tried to ease the fear of the community leaders towards the Arkansans ( I grew up in Arkansas by the way.)  He also testified at the second trial of John D. Lee, the man ultimately convicted of wrong doing in the incident.  

BlackEyedPeas:  I hope I can join some good Bible discussions when I have time.  Thanks for the welcome.

JudgeNot: Thanks for the kind words towards Mormons.  I must say I have met many kind Evangelical Christians of different denominations and we usualy agree to disagree though I have ongoing discussions with several.  I seem to always have an email debate of some kind going with Evangelical friends on the internet.  I look forward to learning more about you.

Thanks All,
Nathan

There are a few Catholics, I think an Anglican or 2,  some Mormans and JW visit every once is a blue moon. Everyone else seems to be Baptist, Independent, or Charismatic.

Mind passing along the url of your board. Sounds interesting.

I am just a Berean.

The Crusader

Now wait, there's some Reformed folks here too!  ;D And a guy that thinks he's the Christ... :-X

I like your note, Crusader. "Just a Berean".

Hi everywhit!

Welcome!

Sure, its www.christiansonline.cc .

I like it. The rules are listed as follows:

Clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for: "God opposes the proud but bestows favor on the humble."
1 Peter 5:5

Do not speak evil of one another, brothers. Whoever speaks evil of a brother or judges his brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law. If you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
James 4:11

Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.
1 Peter 3:8

Finally, all of you, be of one mind, sympathetic, loving toward one another, compassionate, humble.
1 Peter 3:8

I know, they have an error on the last 2. But BEP, this might be a better way to put the rules. lol, who is going to argue? ;D

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Tibby,

I think that I like the idea of Scripture being part of the rules. I've looked at several other boards, and I really think we do pretty well on Christians Unite. We have some lively discussions that go too far from time to time, but those lively discussions usually make everyone get their Bibles out and do additional study. I also think that it is possible to learn something on each lively discussion, especially when we have an open mind and study the portions of Scripture presented by persons with varying opinions.

I have some friends who are capable of very lively Bible discussions and never get angry, loud, or involved in personal attacks. I think it is possible for everyone involved in a good discussion to learn something. It can be a pleasant fellowship time without the police or an ambulance being called.   :D

Love In Christ,
Tom

Welcome Neighbor!  May God bless your stay here!

We need another stirrer for the pot. Grab a ladle and have at it.

Nice to have you here. Are you wearing your armour of God?

How refreshing!

The ‘Mountain Meadows Massacre’ which is the common name for the killing of the wagon train from Arkansas, has been a black eye in our history every since it happened.  My mother told me about it when I was about 16 years old, about 24 years ago, and the known details of the incident have not changed significantly since.  The only ‘spinning’ that has been going on is that people, like this New York Times reporter, keep resurrecting the details of the incident with supposed new information.  I have read much on the subject and the proven details of what happened have not significantly changed in more than 100 years.  People like to make a big deal of the fact that Mormons were involved, they seem to want to keep that in the public eye.  Others try to tie the Church hierarchy into the unfortunate incident just as they have tried for over a century with no luck.  I find it fascinating that this article makes it sound like it hasn’t ever come to light that there were Mormons involved until recently and the Church somehow has successfully covered it up.  Well I heard about it 24 years ago and like I said, the details have not changed in over a century.  Here is a very extensive treatise on the subject and almost all of the quotes are from well before the turn of the century: http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/ldsdefense/mmm.html
If the article is trying to make it sound like it is a new thing that we now know more than just Indians were involved then his/her scholarship is very poor and he/she is looking for sensationalism as apposed to real journalism.  By the way, if you search the above website for the name Laban Morrill, that is my great great Grandfather.  He tried to ease the fear of the community leaders towards the Arkansans ( I grew up in Arkansas by the way.)  He also testified at the second trial of John D. Lee, the man ultimately convicted of wrong doing in the incident.  


Hmm.  Okay.  Thank you, Everywhit.

It basically was just from what highway construction crews had discovered along about the year 2000 or so and, apparently, at least as I recall, what forensic experts had determined from the skeletal remains of the victims found there.

In all fairness I should probably read the New York Times report itself and comment on it directly.  

Thanks,
Nathan

Yes, thank you, Nathan.  Actually, it's The New Yorker magazine, a weekly.  I may still have it in my stacks.  I believe was an issue along in February '02, to coincide with the winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, there.  

It was a lengthy article, and spent only one or two paragraphs on the massacre affair, as I recall.  Actually, I was a bit surprised that a secular magazine would publish such a long article, in-depth.  But, I guess just 'cuz of the Olympics.

They've a pretty critical fact-checking dept. at that magazine, so I doubt they'd publish something like that without double-checking their sources.  But this is just what I recall.

It sounds pretty ruthless, actually.  Nevertheless, I'm reminded just how ruthless any of us can be, in the name of our particular church or organization.  In desperation our personalities can change in a flash.  It certainly isn't confined to the Mormons--if indeed that is what happened.

I've a short reference in just my old, common everyday World Book Encyclopedia, in the Revolutionary Boston Massacre, or there abouts, what the Puritans did to the Quakers(cut off their ears, etc.), to drive them out of their area.

The churches, no matter their persuasion, seem an embarrassing and chequered background.  You hardly blame those in secular society, the public schools, etc., for wanting religion to stay the xxxx out.  Unfortunately.   :-X