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Historical Facts On Record Concerning Popes.

AD 296-304, Bishop Marcellinus was discover sacrificing to heathen gods, then deposed by a synod of bishops, he was replaced by Marcellus I.
AD 731, Gregory II secretly issued a prohibition, not to pay to the Emperor Leo his customary and due tax.
AD 898-900, John IX. Because of the glory, pomp and wealth associated with being pope the risk of treachery was equally as great. The power struggle to remain alive in this much coveted position brought about corruption, simony and murder.
The king of France complained of the excess tax levied by the papacy upon his nation, some twenty-eight tones of gold annually, this was confirmed in part at the death of John XII May 964, it was discovered and made public the pope had $7,000,000 in his private treasury.
AD 931-35, Pope John XI, Count of Tusculum was the son of pope Sergius III by the prostitute Marozia.
AD 974, Boniface VII, under covetous enemy pressure fraudulently left Rome for Constantinople, with the gold, the precious jewels and the treasures of the Vatican.
AD 1044, Pope Benedict IX, stricken with fear, sold the papal chair to Gregory VI in AD 1046, for fifteen hundred pounds of silver.
AD 1191, Clement VIII, and several other popes are guilty of the same type of offenses.
AD 1241, Gregory IX, sold his absolution to the emperor for a hundred thousand ounces of gold, then caused the emperors envoys to be strangled contrary to all justice when he was informed, that Jerusalem was retaken.
AD 1261, Alexander VI, bought his election to the papacy.
AD 1268, Clement IV, openly beheaded Conrad, the son of the king of Sicily, without valid reasons, or legal proceedings.
AD 1362, Innocent IV, through a priest, administered poison to the emperor in a communion host, this was done to remove him from power.
AD 1513, Julius II, had more than two hundred thousand Christians put to death, within the space of seven years.
AD 1549, Pope Paul III, poisoned his mother and niece, so he could inherit the Farnesi wealth.

Judgment And Accidents That Overtook Popes

AD 769, Constantine II, having led a licentious life, was deprived of both his eyes, of his papal power, and then put in a convent by a council.
AD 928, John X AD, was smother to death with a cloth by his rival for the papacy.
AD 931-35, John XI AD, chased and apprehended by the soldiers of Guido, was smothered by holding a pillow over his mouth. He was the first pope to be appointed by a woman (Theodora) and also destroyed by a woman (Marozia her daughter)
AD -795, Benedict VI, was shut up in the Castle Angelo, by a Roman citizen named Cynthius, and strangled there for his adultery.
AD 963-984, John XIV, was poisoned in the Castel Sant Angelo, then was skinned by ruffians then dragged through the streets of Rome to appease to citizen of this man's treachery.
AD 984-985, Boniface VII, died a mysterious sudden death, was dragged through the streets with a rope tied to his feel for his adulteries, then buried in a common grave.
AD -1045, Benedict IX, was killed by a poisoned fig, this was done by an abbess, a devout spiritual daughter that could no longer endure his wicked life, he had gained access to the papal chair by simony.
AD 1045-1046, Gregory VI, bought the papal chair, was later deposed by the council of Sutri AD 1046 then put to death.
AD 1169, Adrian IV, was choked to death by a fly, which flew into his mouth, while he was in the process of drinking.
AD 1144-1145, Lucius II stormed the city with his army was met with a hail of stones from the enemy and died of the wounds.
AD 1243-1254, Innocent IV, died a mysterious death.
AD 1277-1280, Nicholas III, died of Apoplexy, called the stroke of God.
AD 1295-1303, Boniface VIII, the last of the emperor popes had been put in the papal prison at Agnani by one of King Philip's army generals and after three days was release upon his confession to obedience to Philip, but he died a month later a dejected man.
AD 1464-1471, Paul II, after a wild drinking party, died suddenly, a stroke.
AD -1334, John XXII, was crushed by the falling in of the vault of a pavilion.
AD 1513-1521, Leo X AD, after one of his many banquets of wine and wild women, he died with the golden cup in his hands.
AD 1524-1534, Clement VIII, after having conspired with Francis, the king of France, against Emperor Charles the V, he was later apprehended by the captain of the Emperor's army, and admonished of his treachery, as he did not repent, he was later put to death by suffocation.

Hmmm.  And your points are?  We need a little lead in/lead out on the post.  

And – to be “fair and balanced”, perhaps we should have a comparison?  Maybe a similar “historical listing” of protestant leaders’ faults, misdeeds and “accidents”?  Maybe beginning with Jim and Tammy Bakker and going back?

I am not of the Catholic faith, but you list 30 facts.  Are there not thousands (or millions?) of things these and other Popes have done which could be considered blessings?

Hey – didn’t you used to be a reporter for the New York Times?   ;D ;D

Yeah, what ws the point of posting uncited factoids? ::)

Good Post, thanks for posting it.

I really liked this one: AD 1549, Pope Paul III, poisoned his mother and niece, so he could inherit the Farnesi wealth.


The Crusader

You have to remember that there is no way to verify statements as facts in history.  There are only one historians version of what happened verses another historians version of what happened.  So these so called facts of yours need to be supported by, at the very least sources, so we can tell if they are at all trustworthy or merely the rantings of some biased antiCatholic who cares little for the truth.

If they are not from an independent secular historian I would suggest you abandon them.  Rather than rely on them just to spread hate.

To bad they guys like creationist and The Crusader down seem to care for truth, uh? Never contributing probuctively to the baord, just trolling away. ::)

Not nice Tibby.

Bible Quote For Today:

No rest for the wicked.  ;D

Oklahoma Howdy to JudgeNot,

Brother, I agree with you completely. All denominations have skeletons in the closet. In fact, all professions have skeletons in the closet. I'll give an example for police work, especially since all police officers in the entire country were effected by a single incident, Rodney King. Somehow or another, all police officers in the country were supposed to be partially guilty of that one incident. The actually facts are that millions of contacts are made between the police and the public every day, and only a tiny number involve anything wrong done by the police. I'm sure that the same could be said of just about every profession. I, for one, did not wish to take any responsibility or feel any shame for the Rodney King incident.

Smears and mass labeling of thousands or millions over the actions of a small number is always wrong.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I sow-rey ;D I'll never mock the trolls again.

Opps, there I go again ;D

LOL, I think the Bible quote went over tibbys head.

The Crusader

Can we find another name than trolls.

In Michigan anyone who lives above THE bridge is a YUPPER and anyone who lives below THE bridge is a troll. (and I do mean THE bridge, to distinguish it from the puny little thing out in San Francisco)   ;D

Hey!  I take that personally!  ;D

Which of the puny bridges?  The Golden Gate, Bay Bridge, Richmond-San Raphael, Cartinez, San Mateo, Dumbarton, Benecia or Antioch????  Now – I’ll admit, the Bay Bridge is only 7 miles across (with a short tunnel in the middle), but puny???

Hmmph!  ;)

Oh come on, I think I have both you beat! You guys know EVERYTHING in Texas is Bigger! We have cattle gaurds running across streams that are bigger then puny things you call Bridges! ;D ;D

Ok, no more calling them Trolls. Of course, I can think of sevreal words that would better fit these guys...  ;D ;D ;) ;D ;D But, I said I'd stop mocking the trolls ;) ;D

Oops! I thought this was an Evangelical site so I posted some stuff about the whore of Babylon.
My mistake.


BTW. How long does one have to be here to lose their troll status?

BTW. How long does one have to be here to lose their troll status?

Hmmm.... good question. What say, good people? Tibby's been here since May. Is he still a troll?  ;D

Why do you have to guard your cattle in Texas, do men down there really get that lonely?   ;)

Texas where men are men and the cattle run scared.   ;D

Well...maybe. If he took a bath, though, I might alter my decision.

 ;)

Whose facts are these and where are they on record?

This post should have the references and a bibliography, other wise all this information is hearsay.

"contributing probuctively to the baord,

 ;D

 

No more then you ;)

Whose facts are these and where are they on record?

This post should have the references and a bibliography, other wise all this information is hearsay.

http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/rprince/creeds.htm (http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/rprince/creeds.htm)
If you don't trust this site try reading "The two Babylons" or A woman rides the Beast   by Dave Hunt.

The answer is, only if they are roman catholics.

The Crusader

Haha, nope. They are the Strongest bunch of Baptists you will ever meet, but that does stop them. ;D

But before you do that read Woodrows book the Babylon Connection.  In it he (an Evangelical and at one time the leading proponent of Hislops ideas) admits the scholarship he defended for so many years was sloppy and contained mostly errors concerning the Roman Catholic Church.

Since Hunt relies on Hislop and published after Woodrow, his book should also be scutinized closely.  I have read his diatribe and can show you at least one error on any page you choose.

Are you a Roman Catholic?

Why does it matter if he is or not?

Yes, he is one of them. ;D

If he isn't. Why would he defend the Whore of Babylon?

Is Mary our Mediatrix?

I told you he is one of them. ;D

Perhaps he just likes to defend the truth. Or he doesn’t like trolls attacking the belief system of Brothers in Christ. Personally, I think you need to spend less time talking about Whores and more time talking about Christ. Why not let Christianity be the foundation of your belief, instead of anti-catholicism?

The 10 commandments are listed differently by Catholics than by Protestants.
Ex 20:3-17:
1. No other gods (v3).
2. No idols (v4-6).
3. Not take His name in vain (v7).
4. Remember the Sabbath (v8-11).
5. Honor father and mother (v12).
6. Not murder (v13).
7. Not commit adultery (v14).
8. Not steal (v15).
9. Not bear false witness (v16).
10. Not covet (v17).


1. No other gods
2. Not take His name in vain
3. Remember the Sabbath (
4. Honor father and mother
5. Not murder
6. Not commit adultery
7. Not steal
8. Not bear false witness  
9. Not covet neighbour’s goods
10, Not covet neighbour’s wife

Why did the whore remove commandment No 2 (Idols) and split commandment No 10 in two?

Ask Tibby, he is also one of them. ;D

The Catecism spends the most time on the first one, because the Commantments you define as the first 2 are combined. If you look it up, you would know Section IV of the Chapter on the 10 Commandments is titled "You shall not make for yourself a Graven Image." You can look it up. Passages 2129-2132, all about not making idols.

Also, I am not Roman. ;D ;D ;D I'm Greek ;) ;D

Ahh! yiasou patrioti.
I'm Greek too.
Fortunately I woke up one morning and became a Bible believing Christian who no longer worshiped icons and saints and took the Bible literally for what it has to say.
Unlike the Orthodox, I no longer believe that unbaptised infants go to Heaven blind and many other fairytales the Orthodox Church teaches.
BTW. Why do the Orthodox and Catholics call their Priests, Fathers (Matther23: 9  And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.) ?

I was just making a lame joke. I’m Catholic, but not Roman. But I find nothing wrong with the Orthodox way. If you worshiped idols to start with, that is a personal problem, not the Churches problem.

He have been thru the father debate only a few weeks back. We gave a perfectly good answer why. It was several pages long, in the Apologetics board. Now, some decided not to except it, but you can find the post, and read for your self, and make up your own mind I don’t feel like getting into that mess again.

What is your source for these so called commandments of the Catholic Church - some biased anti-Catholic site most likely since they are not the ones listed in the Official Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Don't you see when you accept this type of thing without researching it you are falling for lies.  It makes you look dumb and worse it spreads hatred.  Stop believing everything you read on the internet.

Michael.
Firstly you must be Catholic and secondly you must think we are all STUPID!
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to check it out. Just get your hands on a catholic Bible (You know the one? The one with all the extra [Apocryphal] books).and look up Ex 20:3-17

Even Catholic authorities teach that the RCC is the whore of Babylon.

THE BOOK OF DESTINY  
Page 383

VII. THE GREAT HARLOT AND THE BEAST


1. DESCRIPTION OF BABYLON, The GREAT HARLOT.


Chapter XVII.

Verses 1-6.
Verses 1 and 2

   The condemnation of Great Babylon is so important that it calls for a special treatise. One of the angels, probably the one who poured out the seventh bowl, reveals her destiny to the Seer enabling him to give a graphic description of her judgment. His word invites St. John to his direction so that he might witness the execution of the judgment from a favorable view point. Her annihilation is decreed.
   A harlot is given to fornication. Ezechiel (XXIII.) calls Israel and Juda harlots, because they practiced the idolatry of the pagan nations bordering on Israel. Fornication and adultery in prophetical language mean apostasy from the true faith and from God. Hence this GREAT harlot is a city whose apostasy from the true faith is a monstrous thing. This may point to Rome. Rome is the Holy city of Christ, the center of His eternal kingdom, as Jerusalem was the center of theocracy. And the apostasy of this city, and her becoming the head of an empire that would lead all possible nations and peoples into antichrist-worship would indeed merit for her the title of THE GREAT HARLOT. The apostles called ancient Rome “Babylon” 1 Peter V. 13). So the conclusion is near that the great harlot of the future shall be Rome. However, in this narration, St. John uses ancient pagan Rome as the model for his portrait of Babylon of the future. And whichever city it shall be, it will obviously be one that was once entirely Catholic, apostatized from the true faith and became the capital of the kingdom that leads all nations into Antichrist-worship.


   THE BOOK OF DESTINY   403

   The name of the city is not given, but verse one, “the great harlot”, which means the great apostate, and verse five, “Babylon, the mother of fornications”, again the great apostate, point to Rome as the city spoken of. Rome has been the center and headquarters of the messianic kingdom throughout New Testament times. If that city should apostatize and become the center of all antichristian activity, it would merit the titles of adulteress and harlot given to Jerusalem by the prophets for its apostasy from God and its practice of idolatry and superstition.
   This chapter refutes the whole contention that the “beast” is the emperor of Rome, Nero or Domitian.. The empire procured worship for the emperor. In that way the empire would be the false prophet, who shall he cast alive into the pool of fire (XIX. 20). Again the horns lend their power to the beast to destroy the city. Neither an emperor or the empire ever did or desired this. The beast shall be cast alive into the pool of fire, hence it could not be the empire; only the emperor could be thus punished. And there is no record of any emperor having been seized alive and visibly hurled into hell. It is therefore plainly absurd to apply this chapter to Roman times, if anyone expects a reasonable explanation for it. It plainly concerns itself with an unfulfilled prophecy that is waiting for the time appointed by almighty God.


394   THE BOOK OF DESTINY

   The seven heads represent mountains which again mean kings and in turn symbolize dynasties or empires. The mountains allude to the seven hills upon which ancient Rome was built but are symbols of kings and kingdoms.

It’s amazing how Catholics condemn Dave hunt and Hislop when your own teaches say the same thing.

Clearly, you have not done this. As Catholics, it comes as no surprise we happen to have alteast one copy of the "Catholic" bible laying around. I happened to grab the St. Joseph Edition of the the New American bible, and looked up the verses you said, knowing just what I would find. Exodus 20:

3. You shall not have other Gods desides me
4. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the Earth
5. You shall not bow down before them for worship them.

As you see, if you had bothered to take your own advice and LOOK IT UP, you would know what the Catholic Bible says, and not looked silly. It isn't rocket science.

Oh Pilgrim, Pilgrim, do you read these things before you copy and paste them? If you had, you might have understood what Fr Kramer was trying to tell you.

 Forgive me. I was incorrect about the Bible thing. It was the Catholic Catechism that is writen as the ten Commandments and is often mistaken for them. See bellow





The Catholic Bible:
1. You shall not have any other gods beside me.

2. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.

4. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.

5. Honor your father and mother.

6. You shall not kill.

7. You shall not commit adultery.

8. You shall not steal.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him.

(Exodus 20:4-17, The New American Bible)





  The Catholic Catechism:
1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.

2. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.

3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.

4. Honor your father and your mother.

5. You shall not kill.

6. You shall not commit adultery.

7. You shall not steal.

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.

(The Teaching Of Christ, A Catholic Catechism For Adults, pg. 276)
 


The Catholic Bible prohibits the making of idols. It also prohibits bowing down before these images. Why would Catholic leaders leave this commandment out of their Catechism?
Could it be because their practice does not follow their Bible? The Second General Council of Nicea (787 a.d.) approved the veneration of icons and statues.
 

I have one (actually I have 4 different Catholic translations, and 6 different Protestant translations) and they all contain exactly the same verses and text.

So if you think differently you need to provide a quote from this so called Catholic Bible you claim doesn't have the Ten Commandments as you say.

What Catechism were you getting this from?  Clearly not the official Catechism, probably some childrens simplified catechism.

Here is what the official catechism states in regards to the ten commandments.

First just after paragraph 2051 it quotes from the Bible directly as follows;

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20 2-17
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the LORD your God gives you.

You shall not kill.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ass, or anything that is your neighbor's.

Deuteronomy 5:6-21
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

You shall have no other gods before me . . .

You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain . . .

Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy. . .

Honor your father and your mother . . .

You shall not kill.

Neither shall you commit adultery.

Neither shall you steal.

Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor.

Neither shall you covet your neighbor's wife . . .  You shall not desire . . . anything that is your neighbor's.

Later it explains the difference in numbering in paragraph 2066

2066 The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confessions. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities.

I think the part that you are refering to is based on the following:

A Traditional Catechetical Formula
1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.

2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day.

4. Honor your father and your mother.

5. You shall not kill.

6. You shall not commit adultery.

7. You shall not steal.

8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.

But this is just a quick summary for use by catechists to help them learn basics of the the commandments.  The Catholic Church has never removed any of the commandments.  This is just a lie told by some Protestants in their hatred of the Catholic Church to make their position seem stronger.

You know Kramer is not teaching that because you tried this in another post and I showed you how you were mistaken there too.

Kramer is saying that there is the possibility that there will be a religious body in Rome that could fulfill the endtimes symbolism of the woman on the beast.  He never says nor did he believe it would be the Catholic Church.  So no the Church's own teaching nor even that of one of its theologians (which is not anything like the official church's teachings) teach that the Church is the Whore of Babylon.

That is just your purposely misrepresented interpretation to support your hatred for the Church.

Well, I think I already answered this. They DO address the issue of idols a breath after they finish the part about worshiping other Gods. I even left the passage numbers for you to look up. Nothing was left out, they just covered them in the same area, one right after the other.

Wrong! once again Michael.

"And whichever city it shall be, it will obviously be one that was once entirely Catholic, apostatized from the true faith and became the capital of the kingdom that leads all nations into Antichrist-worship."

Yes but you don't understand that when Kramer is saying apostatized from the true faith he means apostatized from the true Catholic Church since he sees them as one and the same.  So the religious body he proposes to be in Rome at the time is not the Catholic Church but a fallen away group of dissenters who have through force driven the true Church into exhile.

If you had studied any of the Catholic Saints visions of the end times you would know where Kramer is coming from, that the true Catholic Church will go into exhile and be persecuted (most likely once again by Protestant who harbor a hatred for what they think the Church teaches rather than for what it really teaches).  

The body that remains in Rome will not be the true Catholic Church and Kramer is not teaching that it is and neither does the Church itself.  That is how they differ from Hislop and Hunt, who are not criticized for their position but for their sloppy scholarship.

I want you to think about what you are staying, Pilgrim. You are saying that the Catholic church willing admits it is evil, and will cause the downfall of civilization. Think about that. For what logically purpose would the church need to say it is the Anti-Christ? You are saying Kramer+ is saying ”The Church that I work for and that I believe is the correct church of Jesus is also Babylon and will derisory the world in a Left Behind fashion.”

And you say the gates of hell will not prevail against the RCC! Yet, if an apostate church rules the catholic people in place of the RCC (which is a false church) then the gates of hell have surly prevailed by your own admission.

”The Church that I work for and that I believe is the correct church of Jesus"

Now don't start blamimg me for your lack of common sense.

The following is a list of Saints called upon for special purposes (Reprinted from Orthodox Family Life. Volume 3, Issue 3. Spring 1998):

Do the Catholics have something similarto the Orthodox??LOL!

To Have a Child
St. Anna, Mother of the Theotokos
St. Elizabeth, Mother of the Forerunner
St. Sabbas the Sanctified of Palestine
St. Irene Chrysovolantou

For Safe Childbirth
St. Eleftherios

For the Care & Protection of Infants
St. Stylianos

For Young People
Holy Great Martyr Demetrios the Wonderworker

Delivery from Sudden Death
St. Barbara the Great Martyr

Against Drinking
Holy Martyr Boniface & the Righteous Aglais

For Travelers
St. Nicholas: in general, & specifically for sea travel
St. John the Russian: for transport, auto, busses
St. Niphon, Patriarch of Constantinople: for safety at sea

For Cobblers
St. Eustathius the Cobbler of Georgia

For Physicians
St. Panteleimon
The Holy Unmercenaries, Saints Cosmas & Damian
For the Kitchen, Home
St. Euphrosynos the Cook
St. Sergius of Radonezh: for baking
Sts. Spyridon & Nikodim of Kievo-Pechersk: Prosphora making

For Trading
St. Paraskeva

For Headaches
Holy New Martyr Demas of Smyrna

For Eyes
St. Paraskeva

For Ears
St. Spyridon the Wonderworker

For Teeth
St. Antipas of Pergamum

For Hernias & Intestinal Disorders
Holy Great Martyr Artemius
St. Artemius of Verkola

For Throat
St. Blaise of Sebastia

For Finding Employment
St. Xenia of St. Petersburg

For Help in Studies
The Three Hierarchs:
St. Basil the Great, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory the Theologian
St. Sergius of Radonezh
St. John of Kronstadt
St. Justin the Philosopher

For Church-Chanting
St. Romanos the Melodist

For Iconographers
St. Luke the Apostle and Evangelist
St. John of Damascus

For Patient Endurance of Affliction
St. Job the Much-Suffering
Holy Forty Martyrs of Sebastia: especially in freezing cold weather
Holy Forty-Two Martyrs of Amorion

For Protection Against Thieves
St. Gregory the Wonderworker of Kievo-Pechersk

For Stone-workers
Holy Martyrs Florus & Laurus

For Soldiers
Holy Archangel Michael
St. George the Great Martyr
St. Barbara the Great Martyr

For Spiritual Help, Consolation & Compunction
St. Ephraim the Syrian
St. Alexis the Man of God
St. Seraphim of Sarov

For a Good End to One's Life
Holy Archangel Michael
St. Niphon, Patriarch of Constantinople

For Captives and Court Cases
St. Onouphrios the Great
St. Peter of Athos
St. George the Great Martyr

For Help in Distress, Poverty, Etc.
St. Nicholas the Wonderworker
St. John the Almsgiver of Alexandria
St. John of Kronstadt

For Finding Things
St. Phanourios the Great Martyr
St. Menas the Great Martyr of Egypt

For Meeting a Difficult Situation, an Interview, Etc.
St. David the Prophet, Psalmist & King
The Holy Unmercenaries & Healers
SS. Cosmas & Damian of Rome
SS. Panteleimon & Hermolaus
St. Julian the Martyr
St. John of Kronstadt
St. Nectarios of Aegina
Holy Archangel Raphael

For Animals & Livestock
St. George: cattle & herds
St. Parthenius of Radovysdius: cattle
SS. Spevsippus, Elesippus & Melevsippus: horses
St. Tryphon: geese

For Protection of Crops from Pests
St. Michael of Synnada

For the Protection of Gardens Against Pests
Holy Great Martyr Tryphon: also for hunters and Patron of Moscow

Against Demons & Witchcraft
SS. Cyprian & Justina
St. Theodore Sykeote
St. Mitrophan of Voronezh

For Chastity & Help in Carnal Warfare
St. John the Forerunner
St. Demetrios the Great Martyr
St. John the Much-Suffering
Holy Martyr Theodore the Byzantine
Holy Martyr Ignatios of Athos
St. Mary of Egypt
St. Joseph the All-Comely
St. Susanna [Old Testament]

For Mental Disorders
St. Naum of Ochrid
St. Anastasia
St. Gerasimos of Cephalonia: the possessed

Against Plague
St. Haralambos
St. Marina the Great Martyr

For Help Against Quick-Temper & Despondency
St. Tikhon of Zadonsk

For Workers in Hospitals
Holy Unmercenaries Saints Cosmas & Damian
St. Dositheus, Disciple of Abba Dorotheus

For Guilelessness & Simplicity
Holy Apostle Nathaniel & St. Paul the Simple

More RCC shamanism.

What nonsense, do you ever stop to think about the rammifications of what your theories are.  If you think being forced out of Rome is being prevailed over you have a very strange view of what satan wants to accomplish.  

I can see it now, satan gloating over his victory over God cause he made the Church move from Rome.  LOL

Yes there are patron saints for different causes.  These are saints who have gone before us that through documented miracles the Church has identified that God has chosen to work through them to accomplish miracles in response to prayers for certain specific needs.

It would be similar to identifying Elisha as the patron saint of the dead who need to rise again, since God used his bone to bring a man back to life. (2 Kings 13:20-21)

Well Michael you finally have a good point. What was I thinking? It wouldn’t make any sense at all for Satan to drive the RCC from Rome seeing he already is the father of it.

Oh, great come back. Why don’t you throw a “yo momma” in while you are at it? ::)

Honestly, leave the silly insults in middle school, discuses respectfully, or some trolling. Make a legitimate argument, or save the bandwidth for posters who have something to say.

That wasn’t an insult, I was just speaking the truth. How come you get so upset when I finally agree with Michael on a point. You should be rejoicing.

If we are going to save the bandwidth for someone with something (truthful) to say, then you Catholic spin doctors will have to find another forum to post on. Might I suggest a “CATHOLIC” forum. At least there you will find many who embrace the lies of the RCC. Just think of all the serious discussions you could have there. I would be happy to look a few up for you if you don’t know where to find them.  

This Forum is for all Christians. That include Catholics, as well as the Anti-Catholics. We request the same respect from you that you get here. And the vast majority of the people on this board are with us. The Catholic Church needs no spin Doctor to proclaim the truth.

You are clearly only hear to monger up trouble. Please show some Maturity as Creationist has.

Tibby, chill out before you hurt yourself. Take a deep breath, hold it in, and count to 10. No, make that 100,000,000,000!

The following from http://www.demonbuster.com/zpart2-w5.html

 Roman Catholic Church

The Roman church denies the finished work of Jesus' sacrifice on Calvary, salvation by faith alone, the unique Mediatorship of Jesus and the all-sufficiency of the Bible as our source of divine Truth. Wearing of hair shirts, barbed-wire corsets and self-flagellation (whipping) were regularly practiced with Catholic monasteries and nunneries until at least the 1960's. (A Catholic can be a Christian but the vast majority are just religious. When you ask a Catholic if they are a Christian, many will say that I am a Catholic.)

What does the Roman church have in common with modern Paganism?

1. Both teach salvation through ritual acts and good works.

2. Both have a god and a goddess (Mary) figure in their pantheon.

3. Both have a slain and risen god who dies and is reborn in a seasonal cycle of ritual dramas.

4. Both have magic or thaumaturgy (Transubstantiation in the Mass) as central elements in their theology.

5. Both make extensive use of incense, statues, candles and ceremonial robes in their devotions.

6. Both believe in a kind of second chance after death (Purgatory).

7. Both believe the rituals of the living can affect the dead.

8. Both believe in rituals of pain and mortification for purification.

Children, children!
Ha-ha.  I’ve never watched soap operas – but this exchange has to be as good as ‘Days of Our Lives’ or ‘As the Stomach Churns’.

Let’s, market it, call it ‘Reality Forum’ – make a bunch of money and give the money to the poor!
  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ::)

LOL! Judging by all the funny doctrines of the RCC you would think its devotees would have a sense of humor.

 :-X

:'(  (I'll only interrupt for a moment, I promise - I'm just a plain old Christian)

The Old and New Testament, including the Apocrypha, were combined in the original Septuagint Bible read by the early Christian church. While I do not disagree with the "omissions" made as the Church grew, I believe the Apocryphal texts, as the material studied by some of Christ's great heroes, still deserve a certain ammount of respect. A Christian who is mature enough to "rightly discern truth" should have no trouble reading these books; if they are mere legends, how can they hurt us theologically? If we refuse to read because they "aren't approved"...didn't our teachers force us to study the mythologies of Greece and Egypt, Native America, and other such things?  :-[

(Okay, I'm leaving! Carry on!  ;D)

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1334.cfm

HUMAN SACRIFICE
 
"As you can tell, by the 1200's,  I had the Roman Catholic Church practicing powerful White Magic Witchcraft.  The invention of the Mass said in Latin was the key, as it produced tremendous spiritual power.  But, I was lacking a human sacrifice, and Lord Satan was not happy about it.  You see, all witchcraft requires sacrifice, and Satan wants it to be human.  Even White Magic people who sacrifice animals, or who do not sacrifice anything, are not aware that someone, somewhere, is sacrificing on their behalf.  Where in the world could I get a human sacrifice system operating in the Roman Catholic Church and still maintain my fig leaf cover as a Christian Church?
 
Ah, I have the answer:  I can invoke the magical properties of a priest performing a "Mystery "!  All pagan priests in every era have wowed their adherents with the idea that he can perform a "Mystery" that no one else can even conceive, let alone do.  Let me see how I can work this out.  I will need a body, preferably that of Jesus Christ, and I will need blood, again preferably from Jesus Christ.
 
I have it!  I will propagate the lie that, at the time of Communion, the wafer becomes the body of Jesus Christ, and the wine actually becomes His blood.  [Transubstantiation] Then, there is no difference between the "Mystery" ceremony the Catholic priest mystically performs, and the real sacrificial ceremony a Satanic priest really performs.  In the supernatural realm, there will be no difference, and I will have my human sacrifice!  Once again, I can keep sacrificing that hated Jesus Christ again and again, and again, endlessly!  How wonderful this concept truly is!  The people will think they are doing great honor to Jesus, when they are really sacrificing Him at Satan's altar.
 

Finally, since all true pagans eat the flesh of their sacrificial human victim and drink the blood, after the sacrifice is over, I will have the Catholics eat the wafer and drink the wine after the priest is finished with the symbolic sacrifice. Perfect!"

Tibby said
This Forum is for all Christians. That include Catholics, as well as the Anti-Catholics. We request the same respect from you that you get here.


I think you are wrong Tibby.

This is not a polically correct site.
If you bothered to read the  “Listing Terms”
You would note that it doesn’t accept Catholic listings Therefore this is not a Catholic friendly site. Ha!

BEFORE LISTINGS can be accepted on ChristiansUnite.com, the following terms must be agreed to. If you cannot agree to these terms, then listing your site with us will not be to your benefit, as we individually check each site, to make sure that the content is proper for inclusion on ChristiansUnite.com, and up to the standards of the visitors to this site.
1. We can only accept entries from web sites that glorify Jesus Christ. If your web site is of a Christian nature then this must be made obvious. If your site is Christian owned, then it must contain a statement of faith, testimony, or presentation of the Gospel. There can be no contradiction of the other terms of this agreement.
2. You must believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, is God, was born of a virgin, was crucified as punishment for the sins of mankind severally, was resurrected on the third day, ascended into heaven, and is coming back soon to rule and reign for evermore.
3. You must believe that the only way to eternal salvation is through personal belief that the blood of Jesus is all-sufficient for the penalty of sin and an acceptance of him into your life as Lord and Saviour.
4. You must believe in salvation by grace alone, and that salvation is immediate and eternal upon acceptance of Jesus as a one-time sacrifice for your sins, and not obtained through any works, sacraments, traditions or merits of our own.
5. You must believe in the Trinity: That God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit are three Persons present in one God.
6. Your site cannot contain any rude, obscene, or otherwise unagreeable content, to be judged solely by our opinion.
7. We reserve the right to cancel any listings at any time for any reason. Any dispute will be solved by ChristiansUnite.com.
If any of the above Terms & Conditions are not met at any time then your listing will be removed.

Well then I guess this site isn’t for us.

Goodbye

According to this pro Catholic site most Catholics don’t believe the hocus pocus of the mass. I find it interesting that the RCC can’t even convince its own gullible people of this lie. Apparently the RCC bit off more than it could chew when it invented the occult lie called the mass.


http://www.trosch.org/ind/homepage.html

“  Within the Church there have always been and will always be false teachers. Surveys have indicated that in the 1990's, 70% of Catholics no longer believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Yet, all who attend Mass are being encouraged to receive Holy Communion. Sin is no longer recognized or believed to be a reason not to receive Holy Eucharist. The Biblical admonition to not receive, unless first examined and found worthy, is sacrilegiously abused.”

This seems to be website of some group of fanatically traditionalist catholics with an axe to grind, who think JPII is far too liberal and should be got rid of :-\

I wouldn't rely on them to represent the catholic position or provide unbiased information any more than I'd rely on Jack Chick to represent protestants.

No it's not.  But since when did Christ condone the spreading of offensive lies, half-truths and hear-say in His name?

I'm new to this site, so please tell me about  Jack Chick.
What is it that he said that you don't agree with?
Was it the facts? The facts that prove that the Pope stood silent while Adolf slaughtered innocent people? The fact that Adolf received the Popes blessing? The facts that prove that many popes were adulterers and murderers?
Or have you also fallen for the lies that Satans little helper (Mr Pope) is spreading to science  Jack Chick?
History books can be hidden/burnt but the fact remains that The Vatican is Evil and corrupt.

Jack Chick is a well known Catholic hater who will not balk at lying to further his hatred.



Take a look at Chick's biased or mostly non-existant sources and then compare their stories to the following from a credible source:

Blaming the wartime pope for failing to stop the Holocaust from the Vatican is a neat bit of revisionist history.

Newsweek, March 30, 1998: By Kenneth L. Woodward

"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas.... He is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all." --Editorial, The New York Times, Dec. 25, 1941

"A full exploration of Pope Pius's conduct is needed.... It now falls to John Paul and his successors to take the next step toward full acceptance of the Vatican's failure to stand squarely against the evil that swept across Europe." Editorial, The New York Times, March 18, 1998

How the times--and the Times--do change. During the second world war, Pope Pius XII was lauded for his singular efforts to halt the carnage. And for years after, he was praised for the church's efforts in saving an estimated 700,000 Jews from the Nazi death camps--mainly by issuing false baptismal certificates to Jews, disguising some in cassocks and hiding others in cloistered monasteries and convents. But last week, after the Vatican issued its long-awaited mea culpa for failing to do more, critics of the church greeted the Vatican's statement with the sound of one hand clapping. As the Times's editorial suggests, they are demanding nothing less than a moral outing by the Vatican of Pius XII.

Something shameful is going on. That Pius XII was silent in the face of the Holocaust; that he did little to help the Jews; that he was in fact pro-German if not pro-Nazi; that underneath it all he was anti-Semitic--all are monstrous calumnies that now seem to pass for accepted wisdom. Most of these accusations can be traced to a single originating source: "The Deputy," Rolf Hochhuth's 1963 play that created an image of Pius as moral coward. That Golda Meir, later a prime minister of Israel, and leaders of Jewish communities in Hungary, Turkey, Italy, Romania and the United States thanked the pope for saving hundreds of thousands of Jews is now considered irrelevant. That he never specifically condemned the Shoah is all that seems to matter.
In fact, Pius XII was neither silent nor inactive. As the Vatican's secretary of State in 1937, he drafted an encyclical for Pope Pius XI condemning Nazism as un-Christian. The document was then smuggled into Germany, secretly printed there in German and read from Roman Catholic pulpits. The Nazis responded by confiscating the presses and imprisoning many Catholics. In his 1942 Christmas message, which The New York Times among others extolled, the pope became the first figure of international stature to condemn what was turning into the Holocaust. Among other sins of the Nazis' New Order, he denounced the persecution "of hundreds of thousands who, without any fault of their own, sometimes only by reason of their nationality or race, are marked down for death or progressive extinction."

The Nazis understood the pope only too well. "His speech is one long attack on everything we stand for," declared the Gestapo. "Here he is clearly speaking on behalf of the Jews. He is virtually accusing the German people of injustice toward Jews and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals."

In February 1942, Protestant and Catholic leaders of Nazi-occupied Holland prepared a letter condemning the deportation of Jews to death camps in "the East." But only the Catholic bishops, "following the path indicated by our Holy Father," read the letter aloud from the pulpit despite threats from the Nazis. As a result, occupation forces swept Holland's Catholic convents, monasteries and schools, deporting all Jews who had converted to Christianity--something they had not done before. When word of this reached Rome, the pope withdrew a four-page protest he had written for the Vatican newspaper and burned it. As the 11 volumes on the war years published by the Vatican archives make clear, Jewish as well as Christian groups pleaded with the pope not to make a public protest because it would only intensify the Nazi persecution.


Yes that is true but it is mostly Chick who is doing the burning of history books or at least the ignoring of them.  Or maybe he just gets his news from the modern press without ever bothering to research history.

Thank you, Ebia.  :-\

And thanks for your post, Michael.

My sister is very "caught up" in Mr. Chick's publications etc; she is trying to follow his example by blasting and teasing non-Christians, and while this may in some cases be appropriate, it is not at all the command given us regarding evangelism. We are to defend our faith with graciousness, wise as serpents but gentle as doves.

But then, this thread isn't about Jack Chick, I guess.

We will pray for your sister. :'( Insulting people isn't always the best way to get them open to you.

I'm goin' out on a limb here Tibby...but this is irony, isn't it?  If so, it's not bad!  I'm laughin' righteously bro!  But if it's serious, don't get your collar all up in a bind.   ;)

Mostly Sarcasm, but close enough. :'(

It is good that you are laughing righteously, because The Lord hates unrighteous laughter ;)