|
Title: Charity, "Love", Agape Post by: ollie on January 06, 2004, 07:21:46 PM Paul tells us Charity is greater than faith or hope.
1 Corinthians 13:1. 13. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity..... Any thoughts on this? Is this charity the same as God's love that gave faith and hope to man? Could that be why it is the greatest of the three and it is that same charity,(God's love), that christians should have as explained in the previous verses 1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5. Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6. Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7. Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known..... http://inspiringthots.net/movie/greatest-love.htm What is Paul saying here concerning charity being the greatest? It is really above all according to Pauls descriptions of what it supercedes. Sometimes it seems that only this charity could only come from God but yet the faithful are told that without it they are nothing. Title: Re:Charity Post by: 2nd Timothy on January 06, 2004, 07:36:07 PM I was just thinking about this the other day Ollie.
I think its because Charity (being love) is the essence of God. 1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Maybe it supercedes all else because without it, there is no dwelling in God, of God dwelling in us. That would make rest worthless. Or maybe I am missing something else here? Grace and Peace Title: Re:Charity Post by: Mick on January 07, 2004, 08:12:51 PM Saddam Hussein was a tyrant and mass-murderer,yet when I saw him on TV after his capture looking dishevelled and worn out,I felt sorry for him.
Perhaps I'm just too soft,I dunno.Did anybody else feel sorry for him or am i the only one? Title: Re:Charity Post by: 2nd Timothy on January 08, 2004, 08:26:12 AM While I do wish to see him tried for his crimes (justice should be served), yes, I felt some sympathy for him at the same time. Its hard looking at a broken man, knowing what we know about Christ and Gods love for each of us. You are not alone Mick. Again, I am glad he was caught, because I don't believe he would have made good on his own, but I do feel sorry for him at the same time.
Perhaps somehow he will find the Lord and know his forgivness as we did. Grace and Peace! Title: Re:Charity Post by: JudgeNot on January 08, 2004, 10:55:08 AM Hi,
I was attracted to this post because I have a 17-year old daughter named Charity. :) To the subject at hand… I have a question: Could Paul have said what he said because charity is a direct RESULT of faith and hope? ??? Title: Re:Charity Post by: michael_legna on January 08, 2004, 03:18:04 PM Hi, I was attracted to this post because I have a 17-year old daughter named Charity. :) To the subject at hand… I have a question: Could Paul have said what he said because charity is a direct RESULT of faith and hope? ??? No that doesn't work because he precedes the statement by discussing the idea that you can have great faith and be nothing because you could still be lacking charity. So charity is not the result of faith. In fact it works the other way around. Charity or Love is what leads us to do the works that perfect faith and keep faith alive. James 2:22 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? and James 2:20 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Title: Re:Charity Post by: michael_legna on January 08, 2004, 03:22:59 PM Paul tells us Charity is greater than faith or hope. 1 Corinthians 13:1. 13. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity..... Any thoughts on this? Is this charity the same as God's love that gave faith and hope to man? Could that be why it is the greatest of the three and it is that same charity,(God's love), that christians should have as explained in the previous verses 1. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5. Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6. Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7. Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known..... What is Paul saying here concerning charity being the greatest? It is really above all according to Pauls descriptions of what it supercedes. Sometimes it seems that only this charity could only come from God but yet the faithful are told that without it they are nothing. No I don't think the passage allows for an interpretation that this is God's love Paul is discussing. It is our love for our fellow man. Charity or Love is the greatest because it is obedience to Christ's command to us to love one another, John 13:34 34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 15:12 12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:17 17These things I command you, that ye love one another. and it fulfills the law. Matthew 22:36 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Gal 5:14 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Title: Re:Charity Post by: JudgeNot on January 08, 2004, 03:34:13 PM You guys are good! :)
Thanks! Title: Re:Charity Post by: The Crusader on January 09, 2004, 04:57:23 AM Hi, I was attracted to this post because I have a 17-year old daughter named Charity. :) To the subject at hand… I have a question: Could Paul have said what he said because charity is a direct RESULT of faith and hope? ??? No that doesn't work because he precedes the statement by discussing the idea that you can have great faith and be nothing because you could still be lacking charity. So charity is not the result of faith. In fact it works the other way around. Charity or Love is what leads us to do the works that perfect faith and keep faith alive. James 2:22 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? and James 2:20 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? What is your works michael_legna ? The Crusader Title: Re:Charity Post by: michael_legna on January 09, 2004, 11:03:23 AM Hi, I was attracted to this post because I have a 17-year old daughter named Charity. :) To the subject at hand… I have a question: Could Paul have said what he said because charity is a direct RESULT of faith and hope? ??? No that doesn't work because he precedes the statement by discussing the idea that you can have great faith and be nothing because you could still be lacking charity. So charity is not the result of faith. In fact it works the other way around. Charity or Love is what leads us to do the works that perfect faith and keep faith alive. James 2:22 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? and James 2:20 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? What is your works michael_legna ? The Crusader I have many. Some good and some bad. I am not going to post my bad works on the Internet, so I assume you mean my good works. In general I try to bring humor to everyday life, to lighten peoples load, to do acts of kindness whereever and whenever I can. I pray, witness and study the Word of God. If you want specifics I will provide them but I don't want to appear to brag. Title: Re:Charity Post by: ollie on January 13, 2004, 08:10:49 PM Hi, I was attracted to this post because I have a 17-year old daughter named Charity. :) To the subject at hand… I have a question: Could Paul have said what he said because charity is a direct RESULT of faith and hope? ??? No that doesn't work because he precedes the statement by discussing the idea that you can have great faith and be nothing because you could still be lacking charity. So charity is not the result of faith. In fact it works the other way around. Charity or Love is what leads us to do the works that perfect faith and keep faith alive. James 2:22 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? and James 2:20 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? What is your works michael_legna ? The Crusader I have many. Some good and some bad. I am not going to post my bad works on the Internet, so I assume you mean my good works. In general I try to bring humor to everyday life, to lighten peoples load, to do acts of kindness whereever and whenever I can. I pray, witness and study the Word of God. If you want specifics I will provide them but I don't want to appear to brag. "Work of faith and labour of love". God's work. Love in this verse is the Greek "Agape". Strong's Dictionary #26 Charity in 1 Corinthians 13 is the Greek "Agape". Strong's Dictionary #26 So it stands to reason with out this labour of love, we are nothing, according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 13. Ollie Title: Re:Charity Post by: Sower on January 17, 2004, 03:11:26 PM Hi, I was attracted to this post because I have a 17-year old daughter named Charity. :) To the subject at hand… I have a question: Could Paul have said what he said because charity is a direct RESULT of faith and hope? ??? JudgeNot: If you think more upon this, faith and hope are the direct RESULT of agape/charity/God's love to us and in us. "We love Him because He first loved us" so our faith in Christ and in the Father is produced when we see the cross and the love which placed Christ there. Our hope is a direct result of God's gift of eternal life and His promise that where He is there we will be also for eternity. So charity --being the essence of God -- produces everything else, and is therefore the greatest spiritual gift to evey believer. Another way to see this is that CHrist is love, and He is God's gift to each one of us -- His unspeakable or indescribable gift. Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift! Title: Re:Charity, "Love" Post by: ollie on January 17, 2004, 04:51:09 PM All things should be done with charity.
1 Corinthians 16:14. Let all your things be done with charity. Charity, the bond of perfectness. Colossians 3:12. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13. Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 14. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. Charity shall cover the multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8. And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. The end of the commandment is charity. 1 Timothy 1:5. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: Notice how Paul and Peter say, "above all things have charity". This is in keeping with 1 Corinthians 13. All things must be done with charity and this charity must be had above all these things. |