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When discussing what commandments are to be obeyed after one becomes a Christian, which ones are they?

In Jer 31:34, we read;

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Here are my questions;

1. What law is written in the inward parts? and,

2.  How do they relate to the commandments, commanded by Jesus.

There are 635 + laws commanded in the OT, according to Jews.

In the NT there are at least several instances where Jesus , specifically gives or identifies commandments not given in the OT; for instance, we all know, what the second commandments says;

Ex 20
4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6  And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Jesus says the second commandment is;

The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.  MK12:29-31


At 1 Cor 12, Paul gives us Commandmnets given by the Lord at:

37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

3.  What are to be taken as commandments of the Lord, at this passage??

On the other hand,  When the Apostle, makes at statement like the following;

1 Cor 7
6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

or;

1 Cor 7
25  Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

I ask;

4. Does what the Apostle goes on to say beyond the statement, carry the same weight as what the Lord has Commanded??

I am not questioning or arguing that some scripture is not inspired, it is clear all scripture is given by inspiration of God.

My question is centered around the Authority of Gods Word, and whether Christians have the authority to use judgements given by Apsotles to supercede
Commandments Commanded by the Lord Himself??

If Anyone has any scriptural answers to these?? Please feel free to post them..

I am interested in understanding whether such words spoken by an Apostle would be considered as authopritative as the words commanded by the Lord.

Blessings,

Petro

I'm not going to go into great depths here, I just wanted to express a simple opinion by way of a question.  We know that we are not under the Law but under grace.  But if I chose to kill someone...is it still considered a sin even though I'm not under the Law?  

I believe the obvious answer is yes.  It is still a sin.  Yet I am not under the condemnation of failing to be obedient to that particular command.  Am I to obey the command and not kill people?  Yes.  Am I guilty of condemnation, and therefore hell as a result?  No!  I am under grace.

I think we tend to get our understandings slightly confused at this point because it's hard to understand exactly what grace is.  Simply, we know it to be receiving what we do not deserve.  Yet wrapping our brains around the implications of such a truth can be overwhelming.  For me at least.   :)

For me, I obey what God says, understanding that regardless, I am His and He is mine by the shed blood of Christ my Lord and Savior.

As for the commands of an apostle over the commands of the Lord Himself...what is an apostle?  He is a messenger.  From who?  From the Lord Himself.  Same depth and consequence.  When Paul says he adds his opinion there, I think that speaks for itself.  It was Paul's understood opinion given in his liberty...much like many of the things we post here!

Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; (1)After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(1)-What does after those days mean?After the new covenant?If so how does verse 34 comply?



Jeremiah 31:34
And (2)they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

(2)-Who are they?The house of Israel?

This inward parts refers to us internalizing and fully understanding that the law is not some list to be followed in a regimented legalistic approach (we are not capable of doing that).  Instead we bring it into our heart and adhere to the spirit of the law.  We concentrate on mercies not sacrifices.  We love God and one another to fulfill the law more fully than any mechanical adherence to a lengthy list could ever accomplish.

We are to obey them all.
Because Jesus told us to…

Matthew 5:18-19
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

…and it ticks the devil off…

Rev 12:17
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

…and it identifies us as saints…
Rev 14:12
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

…and it gains us eternal life and entrance into His presence.

Rev 22:14
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

It was not Christ’s actions or sacrifice that fulfilled the letter of the law as some would try to teach, but His teachings and our following them is what fulfills the law.

Matthew 22:36
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 13:34
34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 15:12
12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

John 15:17
17These things I command you, that ye love one another.

We keep the law by love.

Romans 13:8-10
8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:14
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

James 2:8
8If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

But we are to fulfill the commandments in the spirit of the law, not by a legalistic interpretation of the letter of the law.

2 Cor 3:6
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

1 John 4:12-13
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Once we have accepted the free gift of grace it is even more important to follow the commandment of love.

Matthew 12:43-45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


That is the concept of fulfilling the spirit of the law through love.


All of the law even the ceremonial law is covered and fulfilled by love.  There is no need to fret about a legalistic fulfillment, such as not plucking grain and eating it as your stroll through a field on the Sabbath.  But there does need to be concern that your actions whenever they occur are lovingly directed to God and your fellow man.


Yes Paul, when he speaks of commandment, does carry the same weight as the commandments of God.  As an Apostle and Bishop Paul received the same promise the others did and those who followed them.  That promise was that whatever they bound and loosed on earth would be bound and loosed in heaven.  (Mt 16:19)  The Church is the final point of authority in answering disputes.  (Mt 18:17-18)  The Holy Spirit guides them to keep them from error and God backs them up on their decisions.

See also 2 Peter 3:1-2
1This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Interesting thread.

I feel like Allinall has said.  We can't fully fathom the depths of Grace ourselves.   Maybe I'm wrong here, but I always took "he wrote the law on our hearts" almost as if, when the holy spirit takes residence in our hearts, and we break Gods law or do something wrong, we are prompted by the holy spirit living in us to know we are doing something God does not approve of.  Thus leading us to repent of such.

Yesterday I was thinking about the following.
In Lev we see...

Lev 19:18  Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Then Jesus gives a NEW command...

Joh 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Sounds exactly the same, except he defines the loving one another as "I have loved you".  Or to say it another way...Imitate HIS love one towards another.  By doing this all shall know we are his.  We all know Love is something you do, not something you feel.  And I believe God loves us and others through us.  Jesus came to serve the Father and address mens need.  He was never serving himself.  I think this serviant attitude towards one another allows the Holy Spirit to Love through us because we are not seeking to serve self.


Grace and Peace!

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Great thread! - All in Christian Love.

What a coincidence! Take a look at the Hoekstra Devotion for 1-6-2004. The topic just happens to be:

The Message of the Law: Be Loving

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hi there!

When you question the context of the Bible, it is usually better just to take a look at the Hebrew or the Greek meaning of the word.

The Old Testament use of "commandment" has more than one definition...

"miswah", which is "commandment" and which is used 181 times....

but there is also

"hoq" which is "statutes"

and "torah" which is "law"

They both equate closely to "miswah"... meaning commandment.  

"peh" which is "mouth" which is used 400+ times and is translated "commandment"  37 times in the AV.

And when you go to the New Testament, there are four words in Greek

"diatagma  which is "that which is imposed by decree or law,"

"entole" which is "a charge or commandment"

"entalma" which is "a commission or commandment"

"epitage" which is "authority with commandment"



So... the context is important as to whether it is "law" pertaining to "charge", "authority", "religion", or just plain a commandment or utterance.

Whew...

then, here's another Greek word, "prostagma" meaning "order, commandment, injunction".


Is there no limit to the words for "command"....


Where to begin?


I think you meant Jeremiah 31:33, where the word law is translated, "torah".  

"Torah" can be translated as many different types of law...

1) prophetic teaching
2) Messianic
3) priestly instruction
4) legal
5) codes of law
6) Mosaic Law

Now, which one will be written on the heart of people....That's a tough question...

But the previous passage might put it into context...

32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Whew.  

Well, this "torah" is not the ceremonial law, but the natural law of the inward man, the invisible qualities of God cited in Romans 1 and 2.  




There were 613 laws just as there are 613 strings in a Jewish prayer shawl (aka the  tallit)



Then the question moved to Exodus 20 (verses 4-6) where one would expect to find the word "torah", but the word is "mitsvah" a variation of "miswah" cited above.  


Okay,


Then we move on to the commandment given by Christ.... "to love the Lord God" first, and "to love your neighbor as yourself"..... teachings of the House of Hillel in Capernuam where Jesus lived after leaving Nazareth and Hasedic teachings.  

And in Mark 12, the word for commandment is...

"entole"

We have a "match"!!!!!  "entole" is the Greek translation of "miswah" and which is related to the "moral and religious precepts" of the rendering of law.

Are you staying with me, petro?



anyway... on to the apostles...


The word in 1 corinthians 7:6 is "epitage" meaning a mandate or a command.  

so


So, Paul speaks with permission, not by mandate from God.

and verse 27 has the same word usage as verse 6.  


so, ultimately, the question is...



It took a long time and a lot of research to get to this point, but the answer is:

Paul has not identified that he is posting over the commandments of God; however, he is giving his interpretatiaon of the people's inquires based upon his knowledge of the "miswah", "hoq", "torah","peh", "diatagma",  
"entole", "entalma", and "prostagma".


Paul was a very intelligent man, knowledgeable in both Greek and Hebrew, knowledgeble in both Jewish teachings and Roman law.   He knew what he was say, and he said what he meant to say.  

Paul is easily misunderstood when he is taken "literally" in English which has "unified" the word for commandment to cover all areas of "law".  


I am not asking if there are any questions.

 ;D


~serapha~

Jabez,

You have to back up and read the previous verses, perhaps begin at verse 23, The Lords of Hosts (Jesus ;according the NIV translation, see Jhn 12:41) is speaking and answers your question, it will be after the days, spoken by Paul at Ephesians 2:14-16,  when he abolished death in His flesh, thereby annulling the law of sin and death (Moses Law), by replacing the OT with a NT.





Yes, they are the children of the promises, who have inherited salvation, they make up the body of Christ, the Church, is Israel.



Blessings,

Petro

michael,

I understand that when Paul says,

1 Cor 14
34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  1 Cor 14:34
35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

He is speaking as Gods mouth piece.

My question is when he says;

1 Cor 7
6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.


Is this the same as God speaking??




Petro

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 1 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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Matthew 5:43  Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Matthew 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Matthew 5:46  For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matthew 19:19  Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mark 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mark 12:31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Mark 12:33  And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Luke 6:27  But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Luke 6:32  For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Luke 6:35  But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

John 8:42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 2 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 15:9  As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

John 15:12  This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:17  These things I command you, that ye love one another.

John 17:26  And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

John 21:15  So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

John 21:16  He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
John 21:17  He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Romans 5:5  And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Romans 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 3 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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Romans 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 12:9  Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Romans 12:10  Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Romans 13:8  Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:9  For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 13:10  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 Corinthians 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

1 Corinthians 4:21  What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

1 Corinthians 8:1  Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 Corinthians 8:3  But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

1 Corinthians 13:1  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1 Corinthians 13:2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:4  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

1 Corinthians 13:8  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 4 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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1 Corinthians 13:13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Corinthians 16:14  Let all your things be done with charity.

2 Corinthians  2:8  Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

2 Corinthians  5:14  For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2 Corinthians  6:6  By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,

2 Corinthians  8:7  Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

2 Corinthians  12:15  And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

2 Corinthians  13:11  Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Galatians 5:6  For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 5:13  For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 5:14  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Ephesians 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:15  Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 5 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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Ephesians 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 3:17  That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Ephesians 3:19  And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Ephesians 4:2  With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Ephesians 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Ephesians 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 5:2  And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Ephesians 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Ephesians 5:28  So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Ephesians 5:33  Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Ephesians 6:23  Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:9  And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

Philippians 2:2  Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 6 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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Colossians 1:4  Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

Colossians 1:8  Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.

Colossians 2:2  That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Colossians 3:14  And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

1 Thessalonians 1:3  Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

1 Thessalonians 3:12  And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

1 Thessalonians 4:9  But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1 Thessalonians 5:8  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1 Thessalonians 5:13  And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

2 Thessalonians  1:3  We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

2 Thessalonians  3:5  And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.

1 Timothy 1:5  Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

1 Timothy 1:14  And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 7 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
____________________

1 Timothy 4:12  Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

1 Timothy 6:11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 1:7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:13  Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:22  Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

2 Timothy 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Titus 2:2  That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Titus  3:4  But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Philemon 1:5  Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;

Philemon 1:7  For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

Philemon 1:9  Yet for love's sake I rather beseech thee, being such an one as Paul the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:10  For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Hebrews 10:24  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 8 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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Hebrews 13:1  Let brotherly love continue.

James 2:8  If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

1 Peter 1:8  Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 2:17  Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

1 Peter 3:8  Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

1 Peter 3:10  For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

1 Peter 4:8  And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

1 Peter 5:14  Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

2 Peter 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

1 John 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 3:1  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:11  For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 9 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
____________________

1 John 3:14  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1 John 3:16  Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 John 3:17  But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1 John 3:18  My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 John 4:8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 John 4:9  In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1 John 4:10  Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 4:11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1 John 4:12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16  And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1 John 4:19  We love him, because he first loved us.
1 John 4:20  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

Tom,


There is nothing to forgive, hese are excellent scriptures.

Centering around the second commandment Jesus quoted.

I will meditate on them.

Thank You..

By the way, is this what was at the Devotion study, I did'nt quite undestand where that study was at..??


God Bless,

Petro

Sorry I missed your focus in your first message.

I think that since he is specifically contrasting that teaching of "permission" with the idea that he is not speaking as a "commandment" that this manner in which to lead their lives is being suggested not required.  

So although the counsel is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit and therefore infallible, it is still just counsel.  

I think of it as some of the laws of the old testament, like and eye for an eye.  They were laws of limitation.  If someone put out your eye, you could do no more than put out their eye.  But you could (as Jesus was later to specifically teach) forgive them and not put out their eye at all.  

Here the individuals are encouraged to take up lives of celibacy or if they cannot stand it - marry, and then married couples are being adviced on a superior manner in which to live (married celibacy) for a short time, but only when both agree to it.  But no requirement is being placed here on anyone.  It is only a suggested superior approach.

Of course the requirement to marry to avoid fornication is found elsewhere and this discussion of permissions does not over ride that commandment.

Hope that was clear.

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro,

Christian Love is something I have been thinking about and praying about for several weeks. I have been studying the portions of Scripture I quoted and following the links and comparisons. I post the Hoekstra Devotion every day under "Share a Thought". The subject matter of the Hoekstra Devotion was a timely coincidence and good addition to my study.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Either it is God speaking or you dont believe the Bible to be Gods word.  Petro do you believe the Bible to be the word of God?  A yes or no   THEN explane your answer would be great ty.

reba,

I believe what God says and since I can read for myself, I can also understand that, when the Apostles says, he is giving his opinion (though the reader ought to take it as inspired by God but not as a commandment)and the Lord does not command what he is about to say, is not a commandment from the Lord it, will not be a sin if not not observed.

I asked these question since it appears to me that some christians would use these very scripture to claim they are on par or have more weight than what Jesus spoke elsewhere.

Perhaps you never thought about this, I did notice that your understand of these verse at 1 Cor 7, were nto as understood by these who claimed otherwise.

As I said before this has nothing to do with the Word of God being the inspired version, but that of AUTHORITY, I have always seen it the way allinall defined it, an opinion rendered by one of Gods elect, is not the same as a Commandment from the Lord himself.

Feel free to comment on this, but post the scriptures on which you relie on to show, where I am wrong.

But please do not mention tradition..

Blessings,

Petro

Blessings,

Petro

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro and All,

Please accept my apology for some posts that appeared to hi-jack the thread and talk about Christian Love in our posts. It was suggested another thread be started and I have moved those posts to Fellowship - You Name It - Christian Love In Our Posts.

Commandments of the Lord is a precious topic, one that I wish to participate in. I wasn't thinking on the "Christian Love in our posts" thoughts and had no intention of disrupting or changing the thread topic. I apologize Brother Petro.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Of course love is the essence of Jesus's teachings. But we cannot "decide" to love. We can only admit how much we do not love our neighbor and ask for forgiveness for it. It is that forgiveness that we receive that we can then give to our neighbor. If Christ forgave me, than everyone deserves forgivess! If we could decide to love our neighbor, then we wouldn't need Christ.

Of course we can.  Love isn't touchy-feely. It's choosing to do the right thing for someone, even when it's the last thing you want to do.

BEP,  think nothing of it, post what you like any time you desire, I enjoy reading wht you post.

This has become an issue as of a result of the Divorce thread, as you can see.

I suggest, that you bring those threads which are not Bible studies, out of that forum, since it appears they are more about opinions of what the Word says rather than, what they teach.

My responses to reba, were based on the authority of Gods Word, contained in His commandments.

And my proof text is;

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Christians unwilling to take Jesus's words as final authority, will be judged by His words, on the last day.

This is a far cry from the verse in question, where Paul voices his opinion, which is not a commandment of thr Lord.

You have any opinion on this.

Blessings,

Petro

Brother Petro - what the Bible teaches is, in fact, a matter of individual conjecture.  That is why we have Bible Study. (????)
If Bible teachings were NOT a matter of interpretation, then why does this website exist?????  Why do we have umpteen and two-thirds different Christian denominations????  ??? ???

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro,

You asked my opinion about:

1 Corinthians 7:6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

"Permission" is translated from a word meaning "knowing together, understanding, agreement, and concession.

"Not of commandment" is translated from an old word "enjoin."

Verse 1 makes it plain that Paul is answering questions that were sent to him.

The literal wording of verse 6 leaves the question open, but it also refers to understanding, agreement, and concession with the parties involved. Paul makes it very plain that he is not talking about a command from the Lord and leaves the question open as a matter of mutual agreement. Paul is certainly not leaving the question of fornication or adultery open.

It is interesting there are other portions of Scripture that are like this but with different meanings in the same general area:

1 Corinthians 7:12, 1 Corinthians 7:25, 2 Corinthians 8:8, and 2 Corinthians 11:17.

It is also interesting to note a mixture of Jews and Gentiles in the Church. Jews would have been raised with very strict commands and tradition in marriage. Several interesting questions in this portion of the Bible are only explained after you go back and look at Jewish law and tradition. As an example, marriage for a young Jewish man was bound to a command to marry between the age of 17 and 20. If he passes 20 years of age without becoming married, he has transgressed. Paul leaves this and several other matters as choice instead of command.

Some Scriptures in this area would lead to confusion pretty quickly unless they were researched and put together with the times and the problems Paul was attempting to address. As another example, is Paul "forbidding to marry" in 1 Corinthians 7:26. Would that create a conflict with Hebrews 13:4 or 1 Timothy 4:3. Paul says that it is good for a man not to touch a woman, and that was the Old Testament way of saying not to get married.

It would help if we had the specific questions in the letter Paul was trying to address. There was some sort of "present distress" and problems that were sure to include fidelity, lusts of the flesh, and marriage. If you read the surrounding portions of Scripture, it appears obvious that Paul is giving advice, not commands or instructions from God. Paul would not be using terms that required agreement, mutual understanding, and concession if he had any intention to give commands. In fact, he does the opposite and makes sure the people know it is not a command.

This is a fascinating portion of the Bible, but one that requires slow and careful study to avoid confusion. I think the conlcusion is Paul is giving advice to help the people avoid Satan drawing them into sin.

Love In Christ,
Tom


 

BEP,

Thank you for commenting, I did not mean to put you on the spot, I sensed you wanted to say something, but was, skirting the issue by oposting verses, about love, you know I love the word purely stated, and I agree Christians ought to love one another.

But when a christian, takes scripture and changes it meaning, for the sake of allowing something which plainly is not taught by the Word, then it seems that is not displaying love at all.

As I was reading your response herein, I remembered the passage of 1 Cor 5:1-5.

Not to put you on the spot a second time, but would you give your understanding of the passage of scripture?

Somehow I see, this passage tied to Acts 15:19-29.

Thank You and God Bless.


Petro

 :D greetings and shalom my brotheren:

the following verses are some of my favorite pieces of wisdom
when the topic our Lord's commandments is approached.

Ecc 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Please give specific attention to verse 13. "fear God, and keep
his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man."

Let us examain for a moment then the sumation of the
commandments by our Lord Jesus.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

let me add just a few more verse to conclude my disortation:
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

We see in the book of Matt. that all of the commandments are
based upon one thing, love. In the book of 1John we see that
God IS love.

Love is not just a feeling! Love is not just an emotion! Love is
a conscience choice of will to be like God. It is the choice to
let Christ in us our hope of glory reign and rule in our lives.
As we become closer and closer to our savior, and let him
have more and more control of our lives,hearts, and wills; then
we become more like him--ie we become love incarnate.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Let us pray brotheren that we can do exactly this: for if we
keep his commandments we will learn not only to love, but
also to be love!

respectfully yours in Yeshua
ravenloche

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro,

Brother, you asked my opinion of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 and how it relates to Acts 15:19-29. I would first like to quote the portions you asked about and say that the two portions of Scripture are definitely linked together in comparisons, references, links, and purpose. For the comparisons in Acts, especially see Acts 15:20 and Acts 15:29. I don't think that one can get an accurate picture of these portions of Scripture without reading and studying the surrounding Scriptures and putting them all into context with the times and the sins that are being addressed.

1 Corinthians 5:1  It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1 Corinthians 5:2  And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1 Corinthians 5:3  For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1 Corinthians 5:4  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Corinthians 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 15:19  Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Acts 15:20  But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21  For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Acts 15:22  Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Acts 15:23  And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Acts 15:24  Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Acts 15:25  It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Acts 15:26  Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 15:27  We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29  That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

____________________

First, it was commonly known and reported that fornication and illicit gotcha146 were rampant among the Corinthian Christians. Other writers of the time claimed that Corinthian Christians were living more loosely than the pagans they were trying to win to Christ. The term, "Corinthianize", was used by some to describe living in sexual sin and wickedness. It is also mentioned that many Corinthians may have learned to split hairs in moral matters to condone immorality and maybe even encourage it. The problem is magnified when one looks at the reality of the time and location. There were temples dedicated to Aphrodite, a thousand priestesses, harlots, and brothels being used in the name of religion when Paul wrote this letter.

1 Corinthians 5:1 speaks of incest, a particularly evil form of sexual sin and wickedness within a family.

1 Corinthians 5:2 speaks of conceit in wisdom and knowledge instead of the mourning that should have been the result of such sin and wickedness among them. The mourning Paul speaks of is translated from words indicating mourning in shame or mourning as if for the dead. The person doing these evil deeds was not removed from among them.

1 Corinthians 5:3 Paul says that he has full knowledge of the case, even though he was not present. Paul states he has judged the matter as though he were present and reached a just determination of the offender.

1 Corinthians 5:4 Paul states that the church should assemble together publicly in the Name and Power of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul states that his spirit would be with them, indicating his agreement and instruction for public assembly.

1 Corinthians 5:5 The offender should be publicly rebuked and excommunicated from the church to remove an evil influence over others. The Old Covenant punishment would have been physical death. It was thought at the time that public condemnation, rebuke, and excommunication might drive the offender to repentance. "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh" indicates a heinous sin that should separate the offender from the children of God. It also indicates a horrendous sin that should result in physical destruction, one that did involve a physical death sentence in the Old Covenant.

If you read on in this passage, it becomes apparent that Paul is deeply concerned about poor examples to others and like sins being committed as a contagion or infection in the assembly because the assembly condoned the evil among them and failed to extricate and cast out the evil.

The comparisons between 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 and Acts 15:19-29 are numerous. Acts 15:20 and 29 refer specifically to the sin of fornication that is the primary topic of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5. However, this is just the beginning of the potential comparisons when you look at these portions of Scripture in context and purpose. Pollution of the assembly by sin is really the same as saying Satan is working to pollute the assembly. The pollution of sin and doctrine caused trouble that resulted in division of the assemblies. As an example, Acts 15:24 speaks of subverting souls in obeying Old Covenant Law that were not given as Commandments in the New Covenant. Being assembled in one accord and the avoidance of sin are also common denominators.

Brother, I realize this is a very shallow examination of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, but I hope it is a fairly accurate brief. A more thorough examination of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 would obviously involve portions of the Old Testament and many other portions of the New Testament.

Love In Christ,
Tom

BEP,

As I was reading this portion of what you wrote;


And I remembered what Jesus said at Rev 2:1-17, concerning the Nicolaitanes, the word fornication is at the center of this warning to both the churches at Rev 2, Ephesus and Thyatira.

Thank you for sharing your insight, into these scriptures.

God Bless,

Petro

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro,

You are most welcome.

Are we fairly close in opinion about the interpretation of these portions of Scripture? I was just thinking that I should have done more study and spent more time before giving an opinion.

Love In Christ,
Tom