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I believe I've come to a final conclusion on at least
one of those questions I asked you. Here's what I
believe about conversion/being born again:

Justification is obviously positional. But I believe
the Bible teaches that sanctification is also
positional and happens at the same time as
justification- It happens at the moment of true
conversion (when we accept Christ into our lives by
faith and with repentance/ a turning away from sin).
But sanctification is also a progressive work of the
Holy Spirit. So justification and sanctification both
happen at conversion but sanctification is also a
continued work of the Holy Spirit which forms us to be
more and more Christ-like.

We aren't saved by this progressive sanctification but
on the other hand even those who were once 'truly'
converted can turn away from Christ/wilfully practice
a lifestyle of certain sins, and lose their salvation.



Being born again is the same as conversion and is
something the Holy Spirit does at the point of both
faith and repentance when our spirits are made alive.
Being born again is not a gradual process- that
gradual process is sanctification- though again, we
are sanctified at the point of faith and repentance
(conversion/being born again).


In my last email I wasn't totally convinced that
either original sin or total depravity were true
teachings- Though I knew everyone sinned at some point
which brought about spiritual death and our sin nature
(Also, I knew Adam's sin brought about our physical
death). So obviously I knew that if spiritual death
and sinful nature didn't come with physical birth then
it still always happened at some point.

But now, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm thinking
that original sin and that one point of the Calvinism
tulip (total depravity) are probably both correct.
That's what I'll probably stick with believing anyway,
because eventhough there is some evidence against
those two beliefs, there's not enough of it to
convince me that they are false. Or I don't know,
maybe I'm just tired of thinking about that subject.

I believe that repentance, along with faith, is
necessary for conversion. And I believe in ministry
(in my case, counseling teens) it's important to make
people aware of what the Bible teaches/God expects
concerning repentance and conversion. When I was young
I used to focus a lot on confession, "easy believism".
But now I believe that 'truly' confessing Christ as
savior and Lord is not what saves but is a result of
faith and repentance.


And about the other question I asked. I'm still not
convinced that God initially draws the lost through
intercessory prayer only. I'm going to continue
seeking the answer to this to satisfy my own
curiosity. Though I know however way the lost are
initially drawn, it's the work of the Holy Spirit that
does it. Because even if preaching (for one example)
is involved in that initial work then it's through
God-given annointings that allows the Holy Spirit to
flow.

I felt like I needed to brush up on an old Bible
course I took in the past (www.rogma.org). So here is
something from that website on the subject of God
drawing the lost. At some point I'm going to work on
typing those scriptures that I mentioned to you, the
ones I have marked in my Bible about this subject.


VI. THE METHOD: WHEN AND HOW DOES THE MIRACLE OF THE
NEW BIRTH TAKE PLACE IN A HUMAN HEART AND LIFE?

First, God acts to bring us to this condition. He
employs two agents:
THE HOLY SPIRIT. (Read carefully John 16:8; John
3:5-6,8; John 6:63; Romans 8:16 and Titus 3:5-6.)
The Holy Spirit plays a major role in our
regeneration.
He convicts us of our sin (John 16:8-9).
He reveals Christ as our only hope (John 16:13-14).
He causes us to repent (Acts 2:37-38).
THE WORD. (Read carefully Romans 10:17; James 1:18; 1
Peter 1:22-23; Hebrews 4:12; and
Mark 4:20.) It is through the WORD and primarily
through the preaching of the WORD, that the Holy
Spirit convicts of sin, reveals Christ, imparts life,
and assures of salvation (John 3:5;
Romans 8:16).




Take care,

Welcome wokeup4Christ:

For confirmation that this is exactly what Scripture teaches, see my recent post on "Salvation has THREE tenses".

Yeah, I just saw your other post.

Thanks for the greeting. I kinda forgot that :) . Hi everyone. My name is Ben,30, IL. Accepted Jesus at 13 (didn't walk consistently with the Lord), baptized in the Holy Spirit at 18, still learning about the Bible of course :) .

If anyone has any insight about intercession they would like to share then I would be really thankful. I'm working on putting together some information on that subject from a recent study.

I do not believe that repentance is a separate act that God requires for salvation. I beieve it to be part and parcel of faith itself. If defined as simply a "change of mind/heart" then it is simply tirning around so as to believe correctly. It is not FEELING SORRY for our sins though we may, but even then it would still be a work of God and NOT something that must be done. Scripturally, we always turn to God first- as in, turn TO God FROM idols. Humans cannot turn from their sin first as they must FIRST turn to the SAviour.
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I don't believe that anyone can ever lose their salvation. Jesus said, "No one can snatch them out of my hand."  He also said, "I will never go away." But He refers to three kinds of believers. The ones on rocky soil, thorny soil, and the ones who produce a good crop. We all sin everyday and none of us can ever become sinless. What makes us perfect before God is His forgiveness, period. The Holy Spirit leads us away from sin and makes us uncomfortable when we do sin. It is a process of confession and asking for His forgiveness that brings more of His love, mercy, and forgiveness into our hearts. But under eadh layer of confession lies another awareness of deeper sins, the core of what makes us sin which are; envy, greed, lust, sloth, pride, gluttony, and wrath. We can never get rid of those, only Christ's forgiveness makes us pure. That is how we become more spiritual. The more of the spirit in us, the less desires of the flesh. But those deeper sins will always be there. We simply have another option which is asking God to be our spokesman, trather than our desires.