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Please help!

I am have reached a point in my life where I am beginning to question my faith and I don't know what to do.

A friend of mine (who is a good person but not a Christian) was explaining evolution and the big bang theory to me. He is very intelligent and has a Masters degree some area of science(I dont know exactly what). It seemed that every question I asked him, he had an answer and it all seemed to make so much sense at the time.

He said things about the Bible not being proved and pointed out passages that I haven't seen before that disturbed me.

I came away feeling very lost and confused and though I've prayed for answers, none have come.

What can I do to resolve this? I feel like my brain and my heart are not speaking to each other.

Alice,

Evolution is bunk, I'll repeat, evolution is bunk.

Have a look at this site and then tell me what you think.

http://aig.gospelcom.net/home.aspx

Let me start by explaining that I have a Mater's degree in Nuclear Physics, just so you can get a sense that I know something about this area.

Be assured that being a scientist does not mean you cannot have faith.  Your friend either doesn't remember or perhaps never knew that science doesn't even claim to be pursuing truth.  Because of something called the white crow thought experiment (which proves that scientific experiments can never prove anything) science now is pursuing the best most workable theory.  That is because science's job is to give us control over our world and you need predicitive power to do that and that is what a good theory gives you.

Evolution does the best job of explaining the observable phenomena and so is accepted because it allows us to predict things in nature.  Creationism on the other hand has no predicitive power and so it is not a science at all.  Does that make evolution right and creationism worng?  No!  It makes evolution more valuable to scientists in their control of this world.  

A more extreme example might help.  In the early days of electromagnetics a man named Maxwell came up with some great formulas (still used today) that explained most of the behavior observed to that point in time.  Unfortunately the mathematics used was something called quaternions and that form of math was mainly applied to gears and levers.  Did physics reject his theory for that reason?  No.  Did physics think that the air was full of little gears and levers?  No.  They used the theory and the math until something better came along to better predict behavior.  They knew it wasn't the truth but they don't care because the paradigm of science is different from the paradigm of religion.  One seeks predicitive power and the other seeks truth.

The Big Bang does a great job of prediciting the ratio of hydrogen to helium observed in the universe.  Is it true?  No.  There will be a better theory along in the future.  Do the scientist care?  They shouldn't.  The scientist might even someday embrace the story of Genesis if there was found a way from within it to offer better predicitions than what they had, but then again they would do the same for a theory built on gears and levers - oh that's right they already have.

I would only add that much of the Bible is written in parables or stories with many levels of meanin.  So although I will always contend that a proper interpretation of scripture will be the truth, I do not contend that any specific interpretation by man is the truth.  That leads us to the next question.  Is the six day creation a proper interpretation of the Genesis story?  I don't know I am only a man and am not qualified to say.  But there is a real possibility that the story is there to teach us something much deeper and more important than the mechanics of how God made everything.  So there are two ways out for a scientist of faith.

I hope this helps, but I sense there is something deeper threatening your faith and maybe this is just a symptom.  If it is let us know if we can help.

Alice:

Here is what you can do to strengthen your faith and resist the devil:

1. Believe with all your heart that God created both our brains and our hearts, and the Gospel, the Bible, and Christ satisfy BOTH.  Being a Christian does not mean checking our intelligence at the door. The Bible meets all the demands of human intellect [which is nothing in comparison to God]

2. Understand clearly that Satan used this man very specifically to sow doubt in your mind, and you must understnad that you were under Satanic attack: "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, THEN COMETH THE WICKED ONE, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.  THis is he which received seed by the way side... But when they have heard, SATAN COMETH IMMEDIATELY, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts... Those by the way side are they that hear: THEN COMETH THE DEVIL IMMEDIATELY, and taketh away the word out of their hearts LEST THEY SHOULD BELIEVE AND BE SAVED (Mt. 13:19; Mk. 4:15; Lk. 8:12).

3.  DO NOT GO BACK AND HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSIONS WITH THIS "FRIEND" -- He is being used as the enemy of your soul. Don't forget that Satan knows the Scriptures and used them against Christ (Matt. 4:1-11).

4.  Prayer is not exactly where you will receive the answers, but immersing yourself in Scripture and BELIEVING IT AS A LITTLE CHILD [in simple faith and without questioning] IS THE ANSWER: "Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God... Verily, I say unto you, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 4:4; 18:3).

5. The human intellect and human reason are at war against God and against the things of the Spirit: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved IT IS THE POWER OF GOD.  For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, AND WILL BRING TO NOTHING THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PRUDENT... For after that in the wisdom of God THE WORLD BY WISDOM KNEW NOT GOD, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING to save them that believe... For ye see your calling, brethren, how that NOT MANY WISE MEN AFTER THE FLESH [human nature], NOT MANY MIGHTY, NOT MANY NOBLE ARE CALLED: But God hath chosen THE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE WISE... (1 Cor. 1:17-31).

6. Faith is believing God and trusting Him and His Word EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE NO PHYSICAL PROOF: "Through FAITH we understand that THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, so that things which are seen [the visible universe] were not made of things which do appear [was literally made out of "nothing" -- God spoke and it was done]... But WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." (Heb. 11:3,6).

7. Ask yourself: Do I believe God even though I do not understand [and may never understand] everything?  If you believe God with all your heart, nothing that Satan throws at you will ever shake your faith:  "LET GOD BE TRUE, BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR" (Rom.3:4).

As michael has implied, there is no incompatibility between Christian faith and the results of science, and the vast majority of Christians (outside of the United States at least) are perfectly happy with, for example, the theory of evolution.

Unfortunately, the administrators of these forums saw fit to remove the forum for discussion of this topic, so I can't refer you to the many previous debates on this issue.

Thank you all for your kind replies.
I would find it very hard not to talk to Jon (my friend) again as he is a very good friend and assures me that he's not trying to talk me out of my faith, but is just being honest.

I have always tried to live my life through the word of Christ and The Bible but Jon showed me verses in Exodus and Leviticus that upset me very much about slavery and some other strange rules.

Does God really want us not to question? Did he not give us mind that we could use to find truth around us? I feel that if I don't look for truth, then I'm just kidding myself and not being honest.

I have tried to ignore these thoughts but they wont go away.

Also, I'm frightened to speak to Pastor about this as I don't want him to think I am bad.

Can I go to Hell for questioning The Bible?

::) You need to study your Bible more.[/size]

I have been studying my Bible but I'm worried by what I've been shown.

Verses about slavery and murdering people for working on the sabbath. My mother never told me about this.
Neither did George (our pastor)


Also, Jon told me that there is proof that the world is older than the bible says.

I am very confused and upset.

Hi, Alice.  Just let all that "upsetness" flow all over you, cuz as you start looking into this "law of liberty", as Paul calls it, I think you'll start to see all that upsetness  start to flow away.  :)

First, discussions like yours will always get you looking at the trees, and not the forest.

For instance, your friend there(hehe--well, "maybe"-- ::)), is giving you reasons why "not" to believe.  Is that correct?

Notice that friends such as this, or in discussions such as this, never will be broached the simple alternative question, and certainly equally as valid, as, "Why "NOT" believe?"  That is, why shouldn't we believe?  (Thank you to Whitehorse, here, on this one)

And launch into all the reasons as to why we can believe in all the bible teaches or even just implies--easter, and rising from the dead, and forgiveness, and salvation from our sins(try telling him that you are not a sinner, just for kicks, and see if he doesn't acknowledge suddenly that there is such a thing as sin--hehe), Christmas and love and babies and air to breathe and birds that sing and bees that buzz.

And then tell him that he must be blind.

As for the slavery thing, if I'm interpreting his stance correctly here, he obviously isn't reading the Bible at all:  Jeremiah 34:10(and, interestingly, verse 11).

Finally, Alice, there are any number of verses in the New Testament on the importance of having your faculties trained, in order to "quench the fiery darts of the wicked one".  

We probably all go through what you are confronting.  It's a lifelong process.

But you'll have to "study to show thyself approved", so you can spot the manuvres that are being launched against you.

And believe me, they will be launched against you.  "...Satan hath desired to have me, that he may sift me like wheat..."

We're praying for you.  It's day by day affair.   :)

Thank you all again. I'm so glad to have found the support and love of people on this site. I will challenge Jon to explain himself and point out his errors if I can.

To all who have replied, you are in my prayers.

Alice

Nothing wrong with questioning, Alice. The Answers are what count.

If you would, please share these passages with us. I would be interested in what he said to disterb you.

Remember, there are PhDs who do believe in God. A degree only shows you are smart, it doesn’t mean you are right.

Hi Alice,

I would encourage you to not be afraid to aproach your pastor for help.  Thats why he is there.  Your friend has been educated and taught things contrary to what the Bible teaches.  On the other hand, you are not equiped to debate his arguments because of the fragile state of your faith.  Your Pastor on the other hand should be.  And if he is worth his salt, he will not shun you for asking questions about Gods word.  He is your sheppard and is there for such guidance.  I strongly encourage you to get a properly balanced perspective from your pastor or someone who is strong in the word to assist you with friends ideas.

My prayers will be with you.

Grace and Peace!

There is a very workable scientific theory that has as one of  it's results that the age of the earth is 4 billion or so years old, and that result allows scientists to predict many phenomena.  So because of it's usefulness the theory currently holds sway.  But philosophically it is only a theory not the truth in any absolute sense.  I for one think the 6 day creation related in the Bible is a parable to teach us other more important moral issues.  So I don't find a conflict with this scientific point.  However if I did I could take solace in the fact that science once claimed that the earth went around the sun, but doesn't anymore.  Suprised?  Read on.  

When first presented this sun centered solar system theory caused much dismay to religion of its time.  The Church, based on their interpretation of certain verses, had already said that everything went around the earth.  Their intelligence, authority and integrity were at stake so they came down hard on Galileo because he supported the sun centered solar system theory of Copernicus.  Who was right?  Well now most people think Galileo was.  

Most religious leaders no longer interpret the verses quoted back in Galileo's time to be literal.  The word of God wasn't wrong, but man's interpretation was.  But here is the kicker science has changed its mind.  A new theory has replaced Copernicus' theory.  Einstein's theory of Relativity says motion is all relative, so either model is right.  You can do all the math and get all the same predictions with the sun or the earth as the center of the solar system or of everything for that matter.  So both theories are equally valuable to science.  Which one is truth?  Science, again, doesn't care.  Science is not about truth.

I personally like to think the entire universe revolves around my right thumb.  The math is more difficult that way but I makes me feel important. :)

The verses that disturbed me were in Leviticus and Exodus.

They seem to suggest that it's ok to have slaves.
There was one that said that if a man beats his slave and the slave dies, then the man must be punished unless the slave dies after a couple of days, in which case it's ok.

Also, Jon showed me a verse in Exodus that says a man who works on the sabbath must be executed.

Jon has said that I'm free to make up my own mind about what to believe but that I should have all the facts. I don't know where to look for explanations.

I think maybe I will ask Pastor George but I'm afraid that he will tell me not to speak to Jon who is a good friend and has been very good to me.

Have any of you read the verses I mentioned? What do you think?

Hi, Alice.  I briefly addressed your slavery issue above.  In post no. 8.


As for the slavery thing, if I'm interpreting his stance correctly here, he obviously isn't reading the Bible at all:  Jeremiah 34:10(and, interestingly, verse 11).


'Hope this helps.  :)

This might perhaps illustrate how we must have a larger picture many times than just the one being presented to us.  That will take some time, and some understanding, and some looking into "things into which angels long to look"  ;).

Your friend is coming to you with all the reasons why you should not believe.

You are responding with all the reasons why you should, or can't do anything other than, believe.

Many times in our discussions such as these, the other person, or people, are much better prepared.

In this one case, he probably knows nothing of Jeremiah 34:10--not because he isn't smart, or intelligent.  But because most likely, he's already decided that he doesn't believe.  So, understandably, he will only used evidence to support that.  That's understandable.  

Remember, some very intelligent folk have decided long before they even left diapers that they just don't, or won't, believe.

Jesus said, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead."    (Luke 16:31)


     
     :-[

Any human who thinks he knows more than God is immediately suspect. He's already purjured his testimony. Please bring up all the issues your friend addressed. I'm positive God will give us the correct answers for you.

But God may be calling you to choose between Him and John. I wouldn't normally pull this scripture out, right out of the gate, but it sounds like you're cementing a friendship with the wrong people. This can really do damage to your soul.

2 Corinthians 6


PS-if your friend isn't trying to damage your faith, why is he telling you it is wrong?

These verse are telling you how to treat slaves. It does say slavery is ok, it just says “If you have slaves, dah dah dah.”

Also, the law books of the Old Testament are not to be taken to the letter. We are to follow the spirit of the law, not the letter. When you read books like Leviticus and Exodus, don’t look at is by saying these are verses w much do, think of is as lessons God was trying to teach his people, and lessons he still is. God in the OT tells us many things. These things are not for Christians to do literally, but to study and see what we was trying to do with it. Was he teaching them good farming technique? Was he teaching then Gentleness? Was he teaching then of Justice? Was he trying to teach them?

Also, maybe you should go talk to the leader of another church. For most of them, the doors are always open. Nothing wrong with it, we are all one body after all, it is not betrayal. I’m sure there is more then one church of the Same denomination as you. You could even go to another denomination. What group are you with?

Evolution is a Theory. Not a law. If it was a “proven” as he did with you, it would be a Law. It isn’t, only a Theory. He is a science major, he know more then enough science to out-wit you in this field, it still doesn’t mean he is right, just well read in a particular field. He can no doubt disprove the Theory with just as much ease as he proved it real to you.

I believe your friend is talking about this verse.

Exo 31:15  Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Taking this verse alone without the entire word of God will surely give you an unbalanced perspective of Gods word.

Here in the New Testiment we see how Jesus responds to similar people regarding the Sabbath.

Mar 3:2  And they watched Him to see if He would heal him on the sabbath day, so that they might accuse Him.
Mar 3:3  And He said to the man who had the withered hand, Arise! Come into the middle.
Mar 3:4  And He said to them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they were silent.
(MKJV)

You cannot take one or two verse in the Bible and claim you understand Gods word or character, thus making a decision about whether it is true or not.

Here is an extreme if not humorous example of that.

And Judas ran and hanged himself.  
Go thou and do Likewise.

LOL

This is obviously bad practise.   Without rightly dividing the word, you can get such doctrine.  Do not let your friend point out one or two verses that he claims to disprove Gods word with.   The Bible is both wide and deep.  Playing in the wadding pool only gets your feet wet.  The rest of the pool is full of richness and endless depths.

Let not your faith be shaken Alice.  I assure you that God is still God, and he is smarter and Greater than anyone in this world.  God is incapable of wrong doing.  There are no flaws whatsoever in Gods Character, and he is unable to compromise one trait in favor of another.  Talk about pressure trying to follow this example as a human being.

Grace and Peace!

I intend to speak to someone I know at church about all this stuff.
I don't think that Jon is telling me not to believe. He just seems so convinced about his views and it all made so much sense when he was talking. Is there a good book on evolution you could recommend that really gives the facts?

If evolution is true and the world is older than the Bible says, how do I reconcile that with my faith?

Jon says that faith alone is not a good enough reason to believe things, but I want to believe so much.

Thank you for the verses about slavery. I feel much better about that now. You are all so kind.

God bless you.

 :)
ps one other thing:
I have always been taught that homosexuality is a sin and is wrong. Jon was suggesting that this is an unfair prejudice against gay people. I don't like the thought of treating anyone unfairly, but surely a sin is a sin? Where in the Bible does it say that you can't be gay? It isn't one of the commandments is it?

If evolution is true and the world is older than the Bible says, how do I reconcile that with my faith?
Hmm...this one is sure to open a can beans here.  Although science claims to know the age of the earth, scientists who are believers in Christ can point out the flaws of such tests and theories.  No matter how science explains it, they still require faith to accept their rendition of how life got here.

Here is link that might answer some of your questions.
http://www.icr.org

He gives a science perspective of Creation, as opposed to evolution.  Some of it is quite deep, but interesting to hear a scientist views on how his peers are wrong  :)


Without faith its impossible to please God.  Without faith, its also impossible to accept except evolution (and IMO probably more that believing in God.)


Lev 20:13  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

We all have sin, but God is true to his word and forgives all men who accept the gift of forgivness and repentance.  As you say, sin is sin in Gods eyes.  No matter what the sin he can forgive us through his sacrifice and repentance.   God is only prejudice against sin.  When we come to him, he forgives us and brings us to repentance and remembers our sins no more.  His love and mercy is matchless.  Remember, he cannot compromise one of his traits for another.   Unrepented sin and sinners will be judged by the highest standard of his holiness, but those found in Christ are his own, and God grants repentance and forgiveness through faith in his Son.

Grace and Peace!

Wisdom, not just for Alice, but all.

Thank you Symphony.

"ps one other thing:
I have always been taught that homosexuality is a sin and is wrong. Jon was suggesting that this is an unfair prejudice against gay people. I don't like the thought of treating anyone unfairly, but surely a sin is a sin? Where in the Bible does it say that you can't be gay? It isn't one of the commandments is it?"


Sigh!

Thank you, Ollie.   ;D


Also, whitehorse, Timothy, et. al.  some good posts.  thank you.  :)


alice, what does your friend think of Jeremiah 34:10.  Just wondering.

On gays, alice, I Corinth 6:9:  

"Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts...will inherit the kingdom of God."

     :-X

Timothy, thank you very much for the link. That site looks interesting. I shall study what it says.

On the subject of homosexuality, if we are not to take the old testament to be literally true, how do we know that being gay really is a sin? Sorry to push this point, but I have a couple of gay friends who are really decent people.(One is actually a Christian, although not at my church)

"The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (I Corinth. 2:14)



Paul expounds on homosex'y, in Romans ch. 1, for instance, and illustrates it there.

There IS more than one Christian viewpoint on homosexuality.  St Paul is talking within a context where the only homosexual activity that existed was abusive (temple prostitution, man-boy "relationships", etc).  The words he uses are compound words, possibly of his own invention, and so there is no way to know exactly what he meant by them, let alone assume 'homosexual' (or whatever) is a good translation.  To infer that all homosexual relationships are necessarly sinful is, therefore, to make an assumption about God's will that is not stated in scripture.   This is, I'll admit, still a minority view in Christianity, but a few hundred years ago St Paul's words were used to condone slavery and objections to that were a minority view; we've moved in our understanding since then.

This just begs the question "what is sexual perversion?"; it just amounts to saying sinful sexual acts are sinful.

He makes a good point. Ok, not really. That is like saying believing drunkenness is a sin is an unfair prejudice against drunks. He is looking at Homosexuals as people like Heterosexuals, instead, look at Homosexuals as people like drunks, people with sin in there lives, sin that has taken over their life.

It isn’t your fault they are sinning. You have nothing to be guilty for.

By the way, did you get my PM?

  Alice--concerning your post #7: capital punishment and slavery. First, the Old Testament was a revelation of God's justice under the law. God showed throughout the OT that He was serious about death as the penalty of sin. The New Testament writer said of that period, "every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward" and that God, by demonstrating the severity of judgment due to transgressors, was teaching the people that life could not be by the law, that they had to have a better way. So the NT apostle Paul said, "the law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ." So despite the severity of the punishment, God was just in fulfilling His right to deal with lawbreakers. Notice that the fruit of the tree in itself was good. It was the transgressing of God's law that brought death. God's penalty of death upon some very minor (seemingly) offenses demonstrated with greater effect God's seriousness about the evil of transgressions than would be demonstrated by executing people for crimes which we ourselves believe should be punished by death. This demonstrates that God's standards are very much higher than our own. Remember that there was an element of grace in the law in that by demonstrating His wrath against sin, He was in effect mercifully leading them to Christ the Deliverer.
  Concerning slavery--if you study the instances of slavery in the Bible, you will find that Biblical slavery was altogether different from the abomination of slavery practised earlier in America. In many instances it was indentured servitude wherein the "slave" had agreed with his master to work  off an honest debt which he owed the master. In other instances,
slavery was used to control those people who had risen up against Israel. As carollee pointed out, it was more merciful
than just killing them. Slavery as practiced in America had none of these distinctions, period. It was evil, only evil continually.
  Don't let unbelievers who refuse to observe these distinctions make false accusations against God for the way He dealt with indebtedness and the enemies of God by claiming OT slavery was the same as what took place in this country. It was by far different, but unbelievers love to misrepresent it as identical with the evil practice in the U.S.
  Concerning evolution--I heard a major scientist not long ago state that scientists were abandoning the "theory" called evolution by droves because modern science has been finding multitudes of new wonders which rule out the possibility that such complexities could come into existence without an intelligent designer. He stated that unfortunately it would be many years before some scientists awakened to the fact that new discoveries have proven evolution to be an impossible explanation for what modern scientists have been discovering.
  As a test of your friends involvement in real cutting edge
science, ask him what he thinks of the Nebraska Man, Neanderthal man and piltdown man. Real scientists have acknowledged for years that they are NOT real. If he hasn't learned that, we could say (as a pun) that he is really into "stone age science." There are new books out now about some of these hard science discoveries that are turning
REAL scientists away from evolution. Ask your pastore or a good Christian book supplier about them.

This might be true, to a limited extent, of the slavery talked about in the OT, but its certainly not true of the slavery of the roman empire condoned by St Paul.


Oft repeated, but simply not true.


Piltdown man was a hoax (and not a very good one), but Neaderthal man most certainly is not.

Real scientists don't learn about other peoples work from popular books, but from quality, peer-reviewed journals.

Um... yeah, it is... ::)



Which was proven to be a old human with arthritis ::)



No, no, the book didn’t turn Scientists away, the book is ABOUT  things that are Scientists turning away, thing in peer-reviewed journals. ::)

Creationists have been claiming that "scientists are turning away from evolution in droves" for years, and yet the vast majority of scientists still support it, and virtually no respected scientists do not.

Not "in droves" no. But enough.

alice:
I have a couple of gay friends who are really decent people.(One is actually a Christian, although not at my church)



Was Jesus offered anything when he was tempted in the wilderness?

Spend time in the Word, Alice, just reading, daily.   And in prayer.  "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto thee".


   :)

Enough for what?   Show me evidence that there's any movement that way.   Show me a single respected scientific journal that takes creation science seriously.

Well, I can’t, because any “respected” journal would make an effort to not “take sides.” They mostly publish Lab reports from various studies and experiments, and theory from various Professor and Doctors.

Sym- agreed

     :)

So you should be able to provide plenty of examples of them publishing papers arguing against evolution and for a 6 day creation.

Anyway, I thought you called yourself a Catholic ::)

Or, you could provide plenty of examples of them publishing papers arguing a 6 day creation...

http://www.creationevidence.org/ Is always first. They have load of examples of published papers.


You lost me with the Catholic joke... :-\

Maybe you could point me towards a specific page, since I can't see anything even vaguely resembling a scientific paper on this site.

The Creation vs. Evolution Threads Are Closed

Moderator

Speak to someone of faith in Jesus Christ and knowledge of God's will for man.

Jon sure sounds like someone that could lead the weak in the faith away. Jon would make no sense to you if your faith were strong and secure in the Lord through His Holy Spirit. Rely more on yourself in the Lord and His word and less on Jon for the word of man.

 Not on evolution as it is of man, but a good book of God, "The Bible".

The bible does not say how old is the earth. So this should not conflict with faith in Christ.

Because Jon does not realize there is more than just touching, feeling, hearing, seeing, smelling.


 You should study this for yourself. Scripture of God is very clear on it. Get a good concordance and Bib;e and research it.

YW, just remember, the Bible has final Authority in regards to this.   I know some disregard Gods litteral word, but doing so skew's the rest of Gods word and supreme nature, man's fall into sin, and Gods promise of salvation.

Full stop!  

Admin says this topic is off limits so I respecfully obey  :)   If you have any other questions along this line feel free to send me a private message, and I will do my best to try and help.


I don't believe I said that the OT should not be taken litterally.  I'm sorry if I gave you this impression.  What I mean was, that it must be taken in its entirety with all of Gods word.   Just to give you an example of how not doing this leads to major problems.

There was group of people who were wittnessed to inside the iron curtain many years ago.  Naturally, these christians were very hungry for the word of God.  They had gotten a small piece of one of the Gospels where Jesus is teaching ...


Mark 9:47
47  And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
(NIV)

Only having this, they believed it was necessary to pluck their eyes out in order obtain salvation.   So we must be careful to take into account all of Gods word, not just a verse here and there.

About homosexuality.  Here are some places in the Bible that speaks to this.

Lev 18:22
22  Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
(KJV)

Lev 20:13
13  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
(KJV)

1 Cor 6:9-10
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  (strongs dictionary implies sodamites here)
10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

Rom 1:26-28
26  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28  Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
(NIV)

This is pretty strong language about inapropriate sexual behaviour.   Something else to consider, is that homosexuals seem to adamantly insist that there must be another explaination for these verses, because it would mean that their lifestyle is wrong.  Rather than accepting what Gods word says, they must try to twist the meaning of scripture to allow them to be acceptable by God, rather than admitting they are sinful beings and need Gods plan of salvation, repentance, and justification.   Quite a contrast.

Now, just because you have friends that claim to be homosexuals does not mean you cannot love those persons and pray for them.  Homosexuality is a sin just like any other sin and must be dealt with according to Gods plan of salvation by laying that sin at the cross, repenting of it, and never doing it again.  All people deserve to be treated with dignity as part of Gods creation.   Judgment will be served by God in due time.   However, this in no way means you should approve of their sin.   Don't compromise your wittness in favor of polotical correctness.   Gods word is offensive to sin and those who commit it.  Without realising one is living in sin, he would never understand the reason for salvation to begin with.   You are a light in a dark place.  Don't be affraid to let that light shine.   Consider this.  On judgment day, when God brings your friends before him and points out that they chose not to repent according to his word, will your friends have the chance to ask you why you never showed them where Gods word says this?   You are not passing judgment on them, Gods word is.  You are showing them love by showing them how to avoid Gods judgment, by accepting his gift of Grace and forgivness now.  It will be too late once the time of judgment comes.

I hope you find this helpful.

Grace and Peace!

I guess that what is happening to me at the moment is that I am wanting to look beyond the Bible for evidence that what it says is true. Does God not want us to explore the world? I am a bit afraid that the evidence out there might contradict the word of the Bible but surely to not look at it is not honest?

I want to know the truth and I'm hoping that someone will tell me that that's ok with God. As much as I love reading Gods word I don't feel happy with not being allowed to examine the evidence for other views. I'm hoping that I'll find that the evidence points to my faith being correct, but surely God gave us minds for a reason.

Am I being a bad Christian if I examine the claims of other beliefs?
Surely God wants me to KNOW the truth rather than just believe it because I'm told to...

Yes and no. Yes, you should question. If you do not question things yourself, how can you answer the question of others? If the Bible and Christianity is true, it will hold up to any question you can throw at it.


Now the "no" comes... Be mindful of the fact that Christianity is based on the idea of believing in something without having the proof right in front of you. This is called Faith. Faith is such a strong part of the Christian system of beliefs, we someimes referrers to it as “the Faith.”

The truth can take any amount of examination.

That doesn't mean that you are going to find incontravertable evidence for faith through logic or science.  What you will find heaps of, is evidence against a distorted or naieve faith.   The truth, whatever it is, will be consistant with what we can learn from the bible and what we can learn from God's creation.

Oklahoma Howdy to Alice,

A lot of this is like questioning mom and dad about why they told you to keep your hand out of the fire. If you question mom and dad and stick your hand in the fire, you will be burned. The devil may try to convince you that some of the things in the Holy Bible are contradicted, but that would only be the lies of man and the devil.

In terms of looking, exploring, and trying various things, the devil would love for you to do that. The devil would tell you to try it all, that the Bible is a lie, your parents lied to you, etc. The devil wants you to do dope, alcohol, sex outside the bonds of Holy marriage, find reasons to put your Bible away, and many other things. In fact, the devil would love for you to explore satanism and the occult. If you do, you will get burned. All of the things in this paragraph are evil, and there are many more things of the world that are evil. Surely you don't think that any Christian is going to tell you that God thinks it's OK to go try all of these things, do you? If someone tells you to go try these things and explore these evil things of the world, they are not Christians, rather they work for the devil. You thinking about exploring the things of this world is the devil working in your mind. The devil just loves, "If it's fun or feels good, do it!"

OK, now you have the perspective of an old Christian who many would call a fundamentalist. No, you should never question God, His Word, or His Promises. You should study them and try to understand them, but first you should accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. Instead, are you here to learn about homosexuals and evolution? You can learn about that type of evil just about anywhere, and we don't teach evil here. Would you like to know about Jesus Christ?

Tom

and, if you do not know how to accept Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour, I found this site the best and simple: http://www.his-amazing-love.org/sarah.html (http://www.his-amazing-love.org/sarah.html)

and, you may send this site to your friends and beloveds as a New Year gift!

Blessings in the Lord!

I'm not saying that I need proof. I am happy to believe many things without proof. Just evidence that anyone would agree supports my belief. If the evidence disagrees with something in which you have faith, can't it mean your faith is wrong?

After all millions of muslims have faith in their beliefs (so much that many are prepared to die for them). I believe that their beliefs are wrong but they would say they have faith too. They would also say that the word of the Koran is supported by historical evidence.
We can't both be right. Why is our faith truer than theirs.
Sorry to post difficult questions but I don't know where else to go at the moment.

In terms of looking, exploring, and trying various things, the devil would love for you to do that. The devil would tell you to try it all, that the Bible is a lie, your parents lied to you, etc. The devil wants you to do dope, alcohol, sex outside the bonds of Holy marriage, find reasons to put your Bible away, and many other things. In fact, the devil would love for you to explore satanism and the occult. If you do, you will get burned. All of the things in this paragraph are evil, and there are many more things of the world that are evil. Surely you don't think that any Christian is going to tell you that God thinks it's OK to go try all of these things, do you? If someone tells you to go try these things and explore these evil things of the world, they are not Christians, rather they work for the devil. You thinking about exploring the things of this world is the devil working in your mind. The devil just loves, "If it's fun or feels good, do it!"

OK, now you have the perspective of an old Christian who many would call a fundamentalist. No, you should never question God, His Word, or His Promises. You should study them and try to understand them, but first you should accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. Instead, are you here to learn about homosexuals and evolution? You can learn about that type of evil just about anywhere, and we don't teach evil here. Would you like to know about Jesus Christ?

Tom

Tom, thank you for the reply

I do want to know about Jesus Christ. I do accept Him as my saviour, I just want to know how to reconcile the fact that there is strong evidence against the claims of the Bible with my belief. Simply not looking at the evidence wont make it go away. I'd just be kidding myself. I can't believe that is what God would want.

I am not interested in doing evil things but the quest for truth through a careful considered and reasoned approach can't be evil surely? Is that what Christianity teaches us?

This reminds me in many ways how Adam and Eve were decieved.   They had everything they could ever want and need to sustain their lives and relationship with God.  Yet, they chose to believe that God had witheld something from them by forbiding them from eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  This doubt allowed them to be deceived and thus die spiritually and eventually physically.

There is historical proof that a man named Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago and was crucified on the cross, that his followers gave their lives in horrible deaths because they had seen a risen Lord.  Not because they wanted to decieve many throughout history.  

Consider this.  What do other religions offer their followers?   Religion is mans attemtp to reach God.   Jesus was Gods attempt to reach man.  That truth is staring you in the face, and yet your friends and Satan have placed a seed of doubt in your heart, and have blinded you to the truth.  You will never find salvation amongst religious folks.   You will only find men attempting to make themselves acceptable to God in futility.  Jesus is the only one who is acceptable to God, and is Gods sacrificial lamb for your sins Alice.   Without the gift that God himself provided, you will stand before him in on your own accord.  

I assure you that you will never convince God almighty that the beating, abuse, insulting, crown of thorns being pressed into his head, nails driven through the hands and feet, and crucified body of HIS holy son, served no purpose for you because you have found righteousness equal to Gods on your own through careful consideration and self wisdom.   I can honestly say that God would not be pleased with your decision to overlook a price he would have paid just for you....(yes everything that he went through, everyone of us deserve because of our sin!)  in favor of testing mens religious ideas of how to please God.

Even though I do not know you personally, I sense that God is dealing with your heart.  You may not know this, but God  laid a burden on my heart for you yesterday Alice.   I feel that all truth has not come forth in this thread, but thats OK.  God knows your complete situation.  He knows everything about you.  He loves you more than you know, and he wants to help you.   He wants so much for you to have the peace and assurance that you seek.   All you have to do is let him.  Saying you merely believe in him is not enough.  Even the devil believes in Jesus.  You have to turn your life over to him, ask him into your heart and let him take charge of your life.  I promise, that if you do this, you will have peace, assurance, and happiness like you have never felt before.  All this doubt and confusion will cease.

I know all this seems odd over a message forum, and I am not trying to embarrass anyone, but I really believe God is speaking to your heart.  If you want this peace that I speak of, all you have to do is say this prayer and mean it...

Dear God, I know that I am a sinner.  My life is not pleasing to you Lord.  But I know that your Son took my place on the cross.  Forgive me Lord for my sins.  I ask you to come into my life right now.  I receive your gift of salvation, and I give my life to you right now.  I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Amen!

If you prayed this prayer, I want you to send me a message saying that you did.  It can be a private message if you like.

I will be praying for you Alice.  Please don't wait.  Jesus is there where ever you are right now.  Invite him into your heart today!  You wont be sorry you did.

Grace and Peace!

Before you look beyond the Bible, you must be firmly grounded in God's Word, and since so-called "science" is able to shake your faith, it is clear that you are still not grounded, neither do you believe that Satan is involved in this, since you have not acknowledged that fact. Also, the Bible is it's own proof.  Looking beyond it will take you down the path of delusion.

.

The same God who gave us the Bible also created the uinverse, therefore you and I will never find any contradictions between "true" science and the Scriptures. However, the lies of Satan and the lies of men have created many theories which have great appeal because Satan "blinds" the minds of people so that they will not see the truth. So exploring the world and looking for facts will not harm your faith, but believing lies disguised as truth will.


A baby learns to crawl before he or she walks, and you must do the same spiritually. Before you examine other faiths and other philosophies, you should thoroughly know what God says. Are you thoroughly grounded in the Word of God?  The Christian's faith is not a "blind" faith but is based on Bible facts and Bible truth but centered on a Person -- Christ.


No one would suggest that you believe anything because you are "told to".  However, if an unbeliever could shake you faith in God's Word so easily, by pointing out so-called "inconsistencies", it is now your duty before God to get to know Him and His Word better.  God is absolutely holy and righteous, He is also absolutely merciful and gracious, and His wisdom is infinite. God would not and could not mislead humans. But He has allowed His adversary Satan some freedom "for a season", and Satan will trip you up each time you take your eyes off the Lord and look to human reason for an answer.

Why is our faith truer than theirs.


B/c of the evidence, alice.   And more is being discovered regularly(due to increasing mid-east excavation to build highways, etc., and hi-tech methods enabling exacting cross-referencing and dating of various discoveries--critics are literally being forced to eat more and more crow.  The palaces of the OT's King Sargon II were thought by the 1830s to be fictious(part of the higher criticism movement); until British Army officers discovered them in the 1850s.  ::))

Not just physical, written, evidence.  'Tho that's a part of it(note the archaelogy thread here under Apologetics).


What part of the gospel doesn't make sense to you

--intuitively?

God offering His only Son, out of love for us, to save us from our stark rebellion to Him?

Perhaps He isn't a loving God.  Perhaps He's a hating one, or just an indifferent one.

Or perhaps He doesn't even exist.  Thus making us God.

And if we're God, which one of us is?  And where is the evidence?  

We all seem to keep dying.

I find it hard to accept that God would create a world where the evidence didn't match his word. If he did that, He would be deliberately fooling us and a kind God wouldn't do that.

If this is all just the work of Satan, why does God let Satan turn people away from the right way. Doesn't God want us to be saved? Does God have the power to create us in such a way that we would choose him rather than Satan?

I am very troubled by things I have read on the internet today.

I wish so much that I could just go back to how I was before, but I need answers to my questions.

Alice,

This is the standard line of questions trolls are taught to use in distrupting Christian Forums. We have a near duplicate thread going now, and we've seen this many times before. Even the topic name has been close or the same many times before. I really doubt it is much of a coincidence.

I hope you find Jesus along the way.

Tom

I don't know what a troll is but it is certainly not my intention to disrupt anything or anyone.

I am in a situation where I have had certain things pointed out to me that have made me question my faith. I have come here seeking answers to resolve this struggle.

All you are telling me is not to ask the questions.

I'm truly sorry if I've caused offence in any way. I mean no disruption. It is precisely for fear of this reaction that I have not approached the Pastor at my church.

Tom, Do you want me to stop posting on the site?

Alice

Hi, I hope you don't mind me butting in.

I just registered yesterday, after lurking for a while - I've read quite a few of the threads here, and I find this habit of the moderator calling people names a little disturbing.

Alice may or may not be a 'troll', but so far I haven't seen any evidence of such a thing. If she is sincerely looking for answers and is put off by the insinuation that she is a 'troll', I think the moderator may have done a terrible thing.

Even if she is a 'troll' there are probably many people reading the responses to her questions that will benefit.

Frankly I think a responsible moderator should be a little more temperate.

Alice,


Post all you want and ask what you want.

Tom

Alice,
 Perhaps you could study the scriptures and then post your thoughts on your studies. Perhaps ask questions about the scripture you study if there are any. Perhaps this would seem less troll like and benefit more people.

Your dwelling on evolution and homosexuality are the patterns that fit trolls. Others here have thought as Tom that your posts are very similar to the posts that disruptive trolls post.

I pray this is not true, but Alice by their fruits you shall know them and so far some of yours have been troll like.

Post us some of your studies and thoughts on God's word.
Why not start with Genesis and the creation. Then try Romans 1 and research the scriptures on what is sin. You will find the answers to your questions on homosexuality.

Praying to read some of your thoughts on your Bible studies.

In Christian love,
Ollie

They only appear troll like in a community that has become paranoid and frightened of difficult questions.

Ebia,
Perhaps you have some answers for Alice's difficult questions.
It would be very interesting and perhaps helpful for not only Alice but for all.

I'm happy to - on a board where the moderators don't ban discussion of the topics she is asking about.

Alice:

Exactly what "evidence" is there that does not match God's Word? There is no hard evidence for evolution, and a great deal of "proof" turns out to be fabricated (BTW I have a Master of Science degree and I know what "proofs" have been given by evolutionists).

The fact is that only God was present at the creation of the world. He gave us a record of this in Genesis and Christ affirmed that Adam was the first man created (Matt.19:4-6 cf Gen. 1:27; 2:23,24). Would you rather believe Darwin and his followers than the living God?


Satan is very real, he is indeed "the god of this world" (see 2 Corinthians 3 -6, where Paul also affirms the creation account in Genesis) and he does want to blind you to the truth so that you will lose faith in God. As to why God allows him to wreak havoc, that is a mystery called "the mystery of iniquity".  Partly, he is there so that our faith will be tested. God did not create robots but rational beings with the ability to choose and make wise or unwise decisions.  Since Adam, most of us have made the wrong decsions, and that is why God has given us the Holy Bible. This supernatural book will teach you to make the right choices. The first wise choice is to TRUST GOD EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS (Proverbs 3:5,6). In fact, you and I will never have all the answers.

Oh, wow - an MSc.  That makes you so much more qualified than the mainstream scientific community.

This remark is completely off topic and cannot help Alice or anyone else. If "the mainstream scientific community" chooses to believe a lie it makes no difference to the believer. "The Word of God stands for ever" and that is what Alice should hold fast to. Everything else is like grass -- here today and gone tomorrow (1 Pet. 1:23-25).

You brought your "scientific credentials" into the debate, not me.  I'm just pointing out what they are worth.

You brought your "scientific credentials" into the debate, not me.  I'm just pointing out what they are worth.

Now, now ebia..... it may be worth a lot to 'alice' to know that it ain't just ignerant unedukated folks who believe!  ;D


TRUST GOD EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS

Amen!  :)

Your dwelling on evolution and homosexuality are the patterns that fit trolls. Others here have thought as Tom that your posts are very similar to the posts that disruptive trolls post.

Sad but true.... :(

Thanks again for all your replies and advice.

Tom, thank you for allowing me to stay. I promise that it's not my intention to cause disruption in any way. If my questions are upseting or you view them as disruptive or evil, just say and I promise I'll look elsewhere for answers.

In the meantime, I'm going to do some reading (and some praying) and I'll post my thoughts once I gather them.

Thank you all.

Alice

This is the best medicine for an ill faith.  Reading Gods word with a prayerful mind.   And you can rest assured that others here are backing you up in prayer also Alice.

In defense of Tom (not that he needs it  ;)

I'm sure that most of us do not realize the difficulty of being admin of such an operation.   I too used to qsysop a bbs many years ago, and I can vouch for the difficulty in keeping the peace in an on-line forum.   Theres no question that there has been a recent rash of dissruptive posts in the forums.  Being an Administrator logging in to find this, I can tell you its not easy sorting through and separating the junk from the truth many times.   Tom is human just like the rest of us mere mortals here, and needs prayer and discernment just like the rest of us.  From my brief stint here, I can tell you that Tom is most reasonable and doing a wonderful job is light of the difficulties that come with his job.

A private message to Tom with concerns and perhaps a compliment once and while would be more productive than you think.  As christians we all need encouragment once in a while, and Tom is no exception.  Tom has already said openly Alice is welcome to post all she wants.

Lets focus on issues that concern Alice with the Gods wisdom and prayer, and not turn this plee for help into petty debating amongst the rest of us.   How can we ever expect to help others if we spend so much bandwidth arguing each other?

OK my sermon is done  :D

Tom, this member for one, appreciates your leadership and effort that is given, along with your even handedness.  My prayers include you in this effort.

Alice, we are glad you came to us for help, and will do everything we can to assist you, and we too are praying for you.

Grace and Peace!

"Oh, wow - an MSc."

 ???  

Further insight to slavery in the Bible.

Doing some research on this for you Alice and found the following.


God also uses our understanding of slavery which men perpetuated as a parallel to understanding our sinful condition as being slaves to it (unable to free ourselves), and being purchased out of the slave market by Christ.  (Romans 6:17-22).   We are no longer children of the slave owner Satan who brought us into the slave market of sin, but we are children of the Father who paid for our ranson with his Son Jesus Christ and purchased us from the slavery of sin.

In scripture there is usually a deeper meaning to things than what appears on the surface.   God is able to take evil things that men do and teach us truths about spiritual things we otherwise could not understand in our fallen nature.   Not that he approves of mens evil, but since men insist on being blind, he makes use of things on our level to show us his truths.

Grace and Peace!

Hi Im new here but let me just say that stan will do and can do anything and everything to dissuade you from accepting Christ and christ's word including the use of well meaning friends.  better to make your stance known and why not question him everything you need to combat his opinions and that is what they are OPINIONS...is found the BIBLE.  Don't be afraid to ask your pastor...thats what he is there for and I do not believe he will be judmental of you but rather I believe he will be very relieved that you are coming to him for answers and help.  Surround yourself with Christians and Gods word do not be unequally yoked. for what does light and darkness have in common? Faith is the essence of things unseen.

A good word of advice, Broken1

All the science degrees in the world won't guarantee spiritual awareness,and may even seriously hamper spiritual progress. As Jesus said:- "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and learned,and for revealing them to little children"(Matt 11:25-27)
To my mind,God wrote the "creation program" then snapped his fingers to start it.THAT was the Big Bang. Simple!

No, He said and it was so. Genesis does not relate or reveal if a big bang happened because of God's word being spoken to create.
Do not go by your mind but know the mind of God through Christ and go by it.

::) It is just a saying, ollie.

A couple of years ago I read the pro-evolution book "Climbing Mount Improbable" by Dr.Richard Dawkins to get an insight into modern scientific thinking,and after I'd finished it I concluded that scientists are just making themselves look silly!
Dawkins book is full of holes,speculations,wild guesses,sweeping statements etc that are simply a desperate attempt to justify evolution!
By the way,Dawkins is a self-confessed atheist,surprise surprise!

  Alice, from Post #7:
<< Also, Jon told me that there is proof that the world is older than the bible says. >>

  Alice, the Bible doesn't say how old the earth is. I've always been told that Bishop Ussher came up with the 6,000 year figure used by some, but not all, creationists today. He did this by adding up all the time intervals mentioned in the Bible. Nothing in the Bible suggests that time intervals mentioned in the Bible were ever meant to be taken this way.
  Hang in there, Alice.

                      --Dale

  Ebia says in Post # 29:
<< This might be true, to a limited extent, of the slavery talked about in the OT, but its certainly not true of the slavery of the roman empire condoned by St Paul. >>

  Paul wrote the book of Philemon to a slave owner on behalf of an escaped slave, Onesimus.
  "Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little whiile was that you might have him back for good--no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother."
Philemon verses 15-6 NIV

  This certainly doesn't sound like Paul is condoning slavery. He is asking Philemon, a Christian, to free Onesimus. It looks to me like the only reason that Paul doesn't condemn slavery in the strongest terms is that he is trying to be diplomatic on behalf of Onesimus.
  From the notes in my Disciples' Study Bible: "The writers of the New Testament did not attack the essential elements of slavery, but what they said revolutionized the thinking of Christians on the subject. Paul had warned slaveowners that they had  a responsibility toward their slaves (Col 4:1)."
  "When an owner can refer to a slave as a brother, the slave had reached a position in which the legal title of slave is meaningless."

Oh!
Sayings if repeated often enough can become "heretical".

Gotta watch those sayings.

Alice.

How is the confusion coming along? Doing lots of Bible study and getting unconfused in your mind about God, His Christ, and His people? I pray you are.

Keep us updated.

Hey All

An update.

Been doing lots of reading (Bible and other stuff).

My head is so full of contradictions and questions at the moment, I'm trying to let the ideas settle until I can frame them to discuss.

Ollie, thanks for asking after me.

I'm still praying although with so many questions in my head, it doesn't feel like it used to.

Happy New Year everyone.

Alice
x

(http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/050.gif)

III John 2:  "Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in health; I know that it is well with your soul."


    :)

Alice:

Have you ever seen that slogan which says "CHRIST IS THE ANSWER"?  Make several of those slogans on your computer and put them in strategic places around your home.

Then memorize John 14:6 and bring it to mind each time you are perplexed or confused, since in that statement the Lord Jesus Christ tells you that He has all the answers.

Happy new year to you also.

Hang in there. If God be for you who can be against you.

Post what you think are contradictions. Perhaps someone here can set them straight for you.
Ask your questions. I am sure you will find an answer here. Some one will try to answer your questions and clear up your doubts.

Thanks Ollie.

I will post some stuff, but I don't have the ideas straight in my head yet and I don't want to misrepresent them.

Just getting my thoughts in order....

Thanks for the support.
x
Alice

You are very welcome.

Take your time and sort things out, perhaps pray as you do this.