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Hi Everyone.

I have studied the Bible for many years now and have been a member of various 'churches' and even a cult, but have since learnt (the hard way I might add) that you should never trust men in pulpits and even worse, women in pulpits.   My wife and I are now a fellowship of two.

Now this teaching of going to Heaven, can any of you kind people explain it, for I find it causes contradictions, which as I have said on other threads - there are no contradictions in God's Word.

Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is among you.   :)

Hello Symphony,

Yes I understand that, but I get the impression that the teaching also implies a place.  Am I correct?

There are 3 heavens in scripture- the immediate atmosphere, where satan and demonic spirits are, and the 3rd heaven where God's throne is located.

If one is saved they are already citizens of heaven because we have been translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God and made to sit with Him in heavenly places. In the mind of God, we are strangers and pilgrims on earth and serve as ambassadors for Christ. As Ambassadors we retain the rights and privileges of our home- which is heaven.

aw

 aw              



                           :)

Thank you aw

Yes, I understand most of that but do you believe you are actually going to Heaven ie the third Heaven?

Charlie:

You say you've studied the Bible very seriously, yet you do not understand or accept the truth that the believer's home is in heaven?  That's rather strange since you have probably read John 14:1-4:

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.  IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE ARE MANY MANSIONS; if it were not so, I would have told you. I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU.  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF; THAT WHERE I AM,  THERE YE MAY BE ALSO. And whither I go, ye know, and the way ye know."

Then let's look at Acts 1:10, 11:

"And while they looked stedfastly TOWARD HEAVEN as He [Christ] went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye GAZING INTO HEAVEN? THIS SAME JESUS WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN".

Then let's look at Acts 7:55:

But he [Stephen] , bering full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly  INTO HEAVEN, AND SAW THE GLORY OF GOD, AND JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD".

So let me ask you some questions now:

1) Where is Christ at the present moment?
2) Did He say He was going to "His father's house"?
3) Did He actually go to heaven [the third]?
4) Would it be fair to say His Father's House = Heaven?
5) Did He say His Father's house had "many mansions"?
6) Did he say He would prepare a place for every believer in His Father's House?
7) Did He say He would return for all believers to take them "Where I am"?
8) Did the two angels confirm what Christ promised?
9) Did Stephen see Christ with his own eyes in heaven at the right hand of God?
10) Does Mark 16:19 confirm what Stephen saw?
11) Does Luke 24:51 confirm Mark 16:19 and Acts 1:9-11
12) Do numerous other Scriptures further confirm these truths?

Then why should you even ask such a question, unless you wish to introduce some new heresy? There are some "Christians" on other boards teaching that the Christian's home is NOT in heaven, so are you a part of that crowd?  The JW's have denied this truth for ages, so it's not a new heresy either.

That place is a new heaven and a new earth, spoken of in John's vision at Rev 21.

God from the begining desired to have fellowship with His best creation, man, and to live in his midst, even when they rebeled and sinned, we see this in Israel's history.

And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. Ex 25:8

  And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.
  And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God. (Ex 25:45-46)

God spoke to Solomon, when he finished the house he built for God, saying;

And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake my people Israel. (1 Ki 6:11-13)

Abraham looked for a city, whose maker and builder was God. (Heb 11:10)

And we read at Heb 8;

1  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2  A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3  For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4  For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5  Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount.

and, in refering to the Sanctuary of Exodus 25;

Heb 9
1  Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2  For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the showbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3  And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

And we know that while that veil remained;

8  The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9  Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10  Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12  Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

But when Jesus was crucified, that veil was rent in in twain (Mat 27:51)

Making the way open for all His peolpe to come to the throne of Grace that they may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Heb 4:16)

That throne is found in the tabernacle of God, spoken of at Rev 21;

1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5  And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6  And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.


So where ever heaven may be, it will be where God dwells with His people;

22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25  And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26  And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27  And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
22:1  And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2  In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3  And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4  And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6  And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

In the end God, will dwell in the midst of His people..

Blessings,

Petro

Yes, as to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

aw

aw,

I totally agree, but in answer to those who posted before you:- In the end even God the Father is going to bring about a new heaven and a new EARTH and make His home with men.  If He is going to do that why would we need to be IN heaven.  What will you be doing there?  Please give me a straight answer.

Who will occupy the new earth, and what will the new Jerusalem come down to?

Ollie,

When you've answered my question I'll answer yours.

I think....[/size]



CHARLIE=TROLL[/SIZE]

The "new heaven" which accompanies the "new earth" is NOT the third heaven, but the first and second heavens -- the atmospheric heaven and outer space.  

The earth's atmosphere, and even space, is presently polluted chemically and with orbiting debris, as well as with spiritual pollution -- Satan and his evil angels.  Therefore, when God purifies the earth with fire, He also burns up the earth's atmosphere, while He cast the devil and his angels into the Lake of Fire.  Please note carefully (2 Pet. 3:7-13):

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word, kept in store, RESERVED UNTO FIRE against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men... But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night: in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY WITH A GREAT NOISE, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, THE EARTH ALSO AND THE WORKS THAT ARE THEREIN SHALL BE BURNED UP,  Seeing that ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE DISSOLVED... THE HEAVENS BEING ON FIRE SHALL BE DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless, we according to His promise look for NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH, wherein dwelleth righteousness".

Since the thrid heaven, being God's dwelling place, has always been righteous, these Scriptures apply only to the first two heavens.

As to the questions, why will believers be in heaven and what will they be doing there, please search the Scriptures for yourself and find out firsthand what you need to know.  It's all there for those who will take the time and trouble and approach God's Word in humility and teachableness.

I think 5020 = JUDGEMENTAL

Sower,

Thank you for your reply, as some think they are going to be floating aimlessly around in Heaven - something that scripture doesn't support.

  The Bible is quite clear and simple about what happens when we die:-
  When we die,time stops for us and we go into a "sleep of death" to await Judgement Day:-
  "Don't grieve for those asleep,for they sleep in Jesus" (1 Thess 4:13/14)
  Then on Judgement Day,christians AND nonchristians get a wake-up call:-
  As Jesus said:- "ALL in the graves shall come out,to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28/29)
  Then the christians are whisked off to heaven and the nonchristians are left standing on earth.
  And then they begin screaming as Jesus said:- "Thrown screaming into the fire" (Matt 13:41/42)
   They had their chance:-"It's dreadful to fall into the hands of God for trampling his son underfoot" (Heb 10:29-31)
  Hence the terrible warning:- "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philip 2:12)