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Theology => Apologetics => Topic started by: Jabez on December 18, 2003, 11:09:41 AM



Title: The New Covenant
Post by: Jabez on December 18, 2003, 11:09:41 AM
Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
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Is this the New Covenant?If so i need some help with verse 34.


Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Petro on December 18, 2003, 01:02:15 PM
Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
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Is this the New Covenant?If so i need some help with verse 34.


jabez,

Literally this is speaking of the Nation of Israel.

There is a day reserved in the future when the Nation will ratify a new Covenant with the Lord.

It will be when Jesus returns to reign on the earth as King, their conversion will be in that day when a remnant is born again.  (Isa 66:8), Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: (Isa 45:17)

Christians are presently spiritual beneficiaries of this New Covenant presently, (Rom 11:26-32)

Do Christians know God today??, Absolutely,

Are Christians taught by God today??, Yes

Blessings,

Petro


Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Jabez on December 18, 2003, 01:34:44 PM
Thank you Petro.I would like to discuss the New Covenant.Did the New Covenant Start at the last supper?Also i would like to look at the name of Jesus as spoke of in Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

After reading that can we conclude that the name of Jesus is authority,powerful?


Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Petro on December 18, 2003, 01:44:29 PM
Thank you Petro.I would like to discuss the New Covenant.Did the New Covenant Start at the last supper?Also i would like to look at the name of Jesus as spoke of in Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

After reading that can we conclude that the name of Jesus is authority,powerful?


jabez,

I'll have to look at the passage, later.

But the exaltation came when God raised Him from the grave and showed Him openly.


Blessings,
Petro


Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Ralph on December 18, 2003, 03:27:15 PM
  Of course, the old covenant was the law. The New Covenant superceded the old covenant, but the New Covenant was also the everlasting covenant. It was from everlasting. Its terms were in effect from everlasting. By that covenant of grace Abraham and the patriarchs were saved just as we are today--"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." The covenant of grace had just not yet been revealed. God dealt with the nation of Israel upon the terms of the law. The law came by Moses, "but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." Jesus  openly ushered God's people into the covenant of grace which was operative to old testament saints who hoped in the Messiah who was to come. As Jesus said, "Abraham saw my day and he rejoiced to see it." The fact that it was called the New Covenant did not mean its full benefits did not exist before then, but merely that it was new in respect to its discarding of the old covenant.


Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Sower on December 18, 2003, 11:27:35 PM
Quote
Thank you Petro.I would like to discuss the New Covenant.Did the New Covenant Start at the last supper?

The New Covenant started on the day that the Old Covenant and all its just demands were met by the Lamb of God on the cross of Calvary and fully cancelled. The day Christ died, He declared in triumph -- He shouted with a loud voice -- TETELESTAI -- IT IS FINISHED! The Epistle to the Hebrews explains exactly what Christ accomplished and how the Old Covenant was replaced with the New.

Quote
Also i would like to look at the name of Jesus as spoke of in Philippians 2:9-11... After reading that can we conclude that the name of Jesus is authority,powerful?

Absolutely.  The Name of Jesus (Yeshua), meaning JEHOVAH-SAVIOUR, is the name of the LORD God Almighty in human form. Therefore all power and authority belongs to the One who has that Name, and His Name stands for His authority in heaven and in earth and throughouot the universe. We pray in His Name, we baptize in His Name, and we take authority over our spiritual enemies in His Name. However, in the book of Revelation, the Father is called "the Lord God Almighty" and Jesus is called "the Lamb", "King of kings, and Lord of lords, as well as "the Word of God". John is careful to address Him as "Lord Jesus", not simply "Jesus" as we read and hear so often today. He is not simply "Jesus".  Paul and the apostles call Him "the Lord Jesus Christ".


Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Jabez on December 30, 2003, 03:41:15 PM
Thank you Petro.I would like to discuss the New Covenant.Did the New Covenant Start at the last supper?Also i would like to look at the name of Jesus as spoke of in Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

After reading that can we conclude that the name of Jesus is authority,powerful?


jabez,

I'll have to look at the passage, later.

But the exaltation came when God raised Him from the grave and showed Him openly.


Blessings,
Petro


Petro what did you think?Did you have a chance to look yet?


Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Petro on January 03, 2004, 09:16:29 AM
Quote
Thank you Petro.I would like to discuss the New Covenant.Did the New Covenant Start at the last supper?Also i would like to look at the name of Jesus as spoke of in Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Quote
jabez,

I'll have to look at the passage, later.

But the exaltation came when God raised Him from the grave and showed Him openly.


Blessings,
Petro

Quote
Petro what did you think?Did you have a chance to look yet?



jabez,

Sorry I guess I just forgot to come back to this and add to it.

Both Ralph and Sower have given good factual information.

Quote
After reading that can we conclude that the name of Jesus is authority,powerful?


I will add just a couple of things here,  the OT was ratified in blood (Heb 9:18-22), just as the NT was;

Now consider what Heb 9 continues to say to us, speaking of the ratification of the NT;

 23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25  Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Unlike the Old Covenant (Testament);

The NT Covenant was to Abraham, while he slept, after preparing the sacrifices, Abraham fell asleep, and God ratified this Covenenat with Himself while he slept (read Gen 15:9-18, carefully, and Gen 22:16-18), way back in Gen 15:1:21,  

Abraham slept, and God, accepted Abraham's sacrifice, evidenced by what happened at verse 17, and what He said to him when LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

in the NT, this is what is said about that;

Heb 6
12  That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14  Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16  For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17  Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19  Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

It is very important to understand this, the veil which is being spoken of is, the veil in the temple which was torn in half, which divided the Holy Place from the most Holy Place or another word for it was the Holy of Holies, within the temple, this was where the High Priest went into offer up, a blood offering for the sins of the people once every year, (Heb 9:1-8)

But all this was a shadow of the real tabernacle in the heavenlies, which was not made with human hands, and Jesus is our Hign Priest who ministers there on our behalf, where He offered once and foerever the more perfect sacrifce  Heb 8:1-10.

All this was previously spoken of by Moses, to the Nation at Levicutus while laying the Law down, note :

Lev 17
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

God himself was to make the blood offering for "atonement for the soul", NOTE:  "upon the alter".

So Jesus is not only the Sacrifiacl Lamb of God, but also our High Priest, who made and offered up His own blood at the altar not made with human hands, in the heavenlies, at the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. Heb 8:2

How this was done is a mystery to me?? Since it is clear that nothing cursed can come into heaven, and by this sacriifce that blood because it was human, was cursed..

So, Then,

Heb 9
11  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12  Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13  For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14  How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15  And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

This is why, His name is above every name.

The angel appeared to Joseph, and said: "thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." Mat 1:21.

"Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

This is practically incomprehensible...

I read it, and its almost as if its a story, written for children, but I know its true.

The name of Jesus in the NT, is the same name Yeshua of the OT, and by Him were all things created, this is why His name has preminence above all other names.

We believe it..........

God Bless,
Petro







Title: Re:The New Covenant
Post by: Petro on January 03, 2004, 09:33:40 AM
Since God promised these things to Abraham and made this Covenant to Himself, it was necessary that the one making the Testament die, and this is what Hebrews explains to us.

So this brings us full circles, to these verse;

Heb 9
16  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17  For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18  Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19  For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20  Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21  Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24  For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25  Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
10:1  For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2  For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3  But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5  Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6  In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7  Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Jesus speaking at verse 7, which is another verse pointing to Jesus being God, since it was God who authored the NT himself, it was needful that He die for it to take affect, and this answers your original question, it became effective upon His death.


Blessings,

Petro