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I'm asking this question as an overall view of yourself, and these terms certainly pertain to more than just politics. Have a little bit of fun with this and tell us why you feel that you fit into a particular category.

In Christ,
Tom

I said Conservative Moderate.  Why?  Because, while my views are highly conservative, both scripturally, spiritually, socially, and politically, I revel in my Christian liberty.  I'm conservative, but free.  That probably makes more sense to me than anyone else, but so it goes.  :)

My answer was Conservative - Hard Line  
Reason: I am not in the Roman catholic religion :)

Brother Love :)

Man, Brother, your in a hateful mood today, aren’t you? Did ave get to you that much? ;D

I ditto everything Allinall said, I’m Conservative Moderate.

DITTO ;D

        To thoughs that care I thought that I was Conservative - Hard Line, and still am on some subjects, but there is no way I could be as hate full as BL, and A4C, so I must vote conservative-moderate.

Please dont cry Bro :'(

1 Corinthians 13
1   Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2   And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3   And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4   Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5   Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1COR 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.

Thank you, my friend. It is nice to know there are non-Catholics who still know we are brothers.

As for the rest... I’ll be sure to stop my A4C’s mansion in heaven ;D

Luv ya both,
Chris

Thank you, my friend. It is nice to know there are non-Catholics who still know we are brothers.

As for the rest... I’ll be sure to stop my A4C’s mansion in heaven ;D

Luv ya both,
Chris

Ditto!  ;D And an "Amen", too!

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

I voted Conservative - Moderate, and I love all of you. I don't think those smilies work very well, so I think I will just try to write it. Yes, I think that everyone who has posted in this thread so far belongs to Jesus, so they are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I know that Jesus would have us take our denominational tags off and simply ask "Is Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Saviour?" If the answer is "yes", we are to treat that person as a brother or sister in Christ with love. If the answer is "no", we are to treat that person with love and share Jesus with them. This isn't simply my idea, rather a new COMMANDMENT from our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. It is fairly obvious that we all fail in obeying this COMMANDMENT fairly often. I know that I fail, and I ask for forgiveness. This is something I have prayed about often recently, and I've prayed for forgiveness and assistance.

Most of my thoughts are old fashioned and colored heavily by the Word of God. I would be much happier if it was still the 40s or 50s in America, but I'll settle for the hope that Jesus will come again soon. In the meantime, I will "Keep Looking UP" and pray that God grants us grace, joy, and peace in HIS WORD and fellowship with HIS children.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Is it possible that Christians many times say and do things that are inappropriate with other people?  YES

Is it possible that Christians many times let denominational tags blind them and fail to recognize a fellow brother or sister in Christ.  YES

Is it possible that Christians many times say or do things that don't build up God's children and don't draw the lost to Christ.  YES

Let me plead guilty first and ask you for forgiveness.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

Brother, that makes perfect sense to me. I love your description and give thanks that Christ set us free from the curse of sin and death.

Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Tibby, Willowbirch and BEP,

Thanks guys!  And here I thought I was losin' it... ;)  I suppose I'll just add a thought here on the matter...

I don't know if Chris is saved, or Joy, or Tom.  I do know that I am saved, and that I can know others are by their fruits.  I can see good fruits in each of them.  Now, if I'm to recognize a brother in Christ by his fruits...what kind of fruits are A4C and BL displaying?  At times seemingly hateful, or seeking to divide.  But are they?  Or are they trying to unite?  I can also see good fruits in them.  I think sometimes we attribute "fruit" to "folly."  Nobody's perfect but Christ, and God is working that image in each one that He calls His own, according to His plan, and in His time.

My point is simply this: everyone that claims, and is claimed by Christ is a sinner saved by grace.  We have the blessed Holy Spirit indwelling our sinful flesh.  Maybe now I can understand what Paul meant when he said:


Just a thought...

Beautiful, Allinall.  :)

Yeah, good post, Allinall!

bep:
I'm asking this question as an overall view of yourself, and these terms certainly pertain to more than just politics. Have a little bit of fun with this and tell us why you feel that you fit into a particular category.

In Christ,
Tom



I just heard Rush Limbaugh saying today that liberals are always so busy respecting multiple views they never can decide on just one.   ;D

;D  :P

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,


 ;D  If that is true, most of the Democrats running for President are probably liberals. It seems that many of them change their minds once a week. UM??, or is that all politicians? Their history of voting is one way and their running platform is different. If the polls aren't good, check the guy again next week for his new set of opinions.   :D

In Christ,
Tom

Right On!

I love Rush Limbaugh

Brother Love :)

I want to know who the 2 guys who voted for Liberal - Moderate are! ;) ;D

 ::) Maybe they're hiding...

I am a moderate-liberal basically because of social programs.  I feel we (and in the US that means the government) need to help those less fortunate than ourselves.  This issue is so poorly addressed in this country that for me it actually outweighs the issue of abortion which I am dead set against.

I once saw a definition of liberal and conservative (or maybe it was Democrat and Republican) that read:

Push a liberal hard enough to the left and you get a Communist.  Push a conservative hard enough to the right and you get a Nazi.  I know it is hyperbole and not a very accurate one at that but the sentiment is clear.  If you are truly looking for a kinder gentler country don't look to the conservative side of the isle.  They want everyone to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

Not that I hate conservatives, some of my best friends are conservatives.   :)

Oh, and I am adding this late since I read all the other posts.  I am the third one to choose moderate-liberal, and I only chose that because my wife thinks I am way too conservative.

Hmmm, thank you michael__l.

of social programs.  I feel we (and in the US that means the government) need to help those less fortunate than ourselves.  

Yes, I know.  This is the frequent refrain used to justify many governments, including the coming global one, on many different levels.

But it's answer--that is, "social programs", by necessity, or by definition, implies coercion.  I.e., how do we finance these programs?  Revenues.  How do we finance revenues?  Taxes. How do we collect taxes?   Yes, the IRS tells us ours is a voluntary tax system.  

How did Jesus answer this very question from the Pharisees?  Jesus replied, "Render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's", thereby implying that very reality, "coercion"(Caesar by defnition was "coercion", that is, a slave state.  Rome was built on the backs of slave labor).

So under the guise of "generosity", sympathy and compassion, we steadily increase and move into place more and more government control, at the same time gradually moving out of place that natural generosity that springs from people who give and tythe not just because they have to, but because they want to("...God loves the heart of a cheerful giver...").

Or, in effect, you have the natural generosity of those who go to church(and even those who don't ), being replaced by the threatening caveat of what will happen to you if you don't give(socialism).

The quote on this topic I've heard goes something like this:  

"A liberal is someone who gives away other peoples' money.

"A conservative is someone who gives away his own money."

 

I respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree with that interpretation of that verse.  I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing, he said what he said, which was “Pay your taxes.”

Hehe. I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing,

Hehe, Tibby, I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing,.

Good one.  


Yeah, right.   ::)

Jesus gives us all these parables, in the New Testament, and he isn't "implying a thing".

Hehe.


   :-\

To imply something would mean he hinting at it. He did not hint at what you said. If he did, please point it out. Don't just roll your eye, share the knowledge.

I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing, he said what he said, which was “Pay your taxes.”

Hmmm, but is that what Jesus said?  

To "imply" is to include your audience, Tibby.  Which is what parables, illustrations, examples, etc. are all about. The measure of any brilliance is not only what you put in, but what you leave out--or rather, knowing what to leave out.  Your audience is left to ponder, and to weigh, thus making your effort more enjoyable(or uncomfortable, hehe) for them.

The brilliance of Jesus' parables are in what he leaves for you to figure out(thus "including" you).

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's", is what Jesus says.

But, just what IS Casesar's?  (Arguablly, you should get any number of answers on just that one alone).

Why isn't that just "Pay your taxes", as you assert?

Well, if Jesus, the king of the Jews, the king of all mankind, the king of the universe, is standing there, asking, "What is Caesar's?", the obvious implication(there's the implication) is, "Nothing".  "Nothing" is Caesars.  Nothing is ours.  Nothing is yours.

If "nothing" is Caesar's, then how can you render him any of it??

Only by coercion.  

And thus we do.

Jesus is drawing a distinction between His Kingdom(love), and worldly kingdoms(coercion--or, that is, non-love).

All worldly governments, ultimately, collect their taxes(without which they could not exist)by coercion.  They don't "love" you.

So, obey the laws, and render unto the gov't what is "theirs"(nothing).

The point of Jesus' whole Caesar statement is not the question of taxes at all(it all belongs to God anyway); it's the question of whose kingdom are we talking about here, and what is the difference.    

So the statement, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's", is rich with implication...

We already covered this, Why are you saying it again? Only this time, you make Jesus sound like a Zen master instead of the Christ. That is how things like “rapture” got started, some one put words in Jesus’ mouth. You are putting words in Jesus’ mouth. We are to obey the Governing Authority. That is the Authority that God put here in this Earth to be over you. Why would the other Authors of the New testament be telling us the Government is placed here by God, if Jesus told them the Government was evil.

You’ve been listening to Rage Against the Machine to much, Sym. ;D Give Sapph his CD's back ;) ;D lol j/k

I am still ROFLOL over this one ;D

We already covered this, Why are you saying it again? Only this time, you make Jesus sound like a Zen master instead of the Christ. That is how things like “rapture” got started, some one put words in Jesus’ mouth. You are putting words in Jesus’ mouth. We are to obey the Governing Authority. That is the Authority that God put here in this Earth to be over you. Why would the other Authors of the New testament be telling us the Government is placed here by God, if Jesus told them the Government was evil.

You’ve been listening to Rage Against the Machine to much, Sym. ;D Give Sapph his CD's back ;) ;D lol j/k


Thank you, Tibby.   ;D

No, actually, I don't believe anywhere did I say to disobey Caesar, or that Jesus says or even implies that.

I said, or Jesus implied, that we obey Caesar out of coercion.

Jesus was illustrating, by implication, the difference between His kingdom, and worldly ones.

Jesus' Kingdom is not one of coercion(that's what "Christmas", for instance, is all about--the "giving" of gifts--freely, b/c you want to.  that's Jesus' Kingdom.  B/c you want to(the three wisemen, with their frankencense and myrrh, 'cuz they wanted to  ;D.).  Or, at least, while we are yet here on Earth, His is not one of coercion(yes, in the final analysis, "every knee shall bow", whether we want to or not, in the end...).


    ???

I don’t see how Taxes is Coercion Running a country costs money. Those who live in the country should help cover the cost of safely and welfare.

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Tibby,

 ;D Stop paying those taxes and tell us how long it is before the IRS changes your mind.

In Christ,
Tom

I certainly could agree with this.

In response to Symph's statement about "What is Ceasar's? Nothing..." The question that was posed to Jesus was an attempt to trap him. They wanted him to enter into a political debate over who was king: Ceasar or God?

While I agree that, in the big picture, Ceasar truly has nothing, and all belongs to God - I would say that the Lord commands us to respect authority, and if we must pay taxes, then we should do it, not only because Law demands it, but because God does.

I do think that Jesus was "implying" something - but it wasn't the reality that Ceasar was a wicked dude. It was a lesson in obedience; after all, God is the One who sets up authorities.

Not that we must always obey the governemnt, either, since it is "better to obey God than man"; but wherever we are capable of obedience, and our actions will not grieve the Holy Spirit, we must submit.

Oh alright, willow, tibby.

(http://www.oz.net/~daveb/images/Andy_e223.jpg)



   >:(


    :-\

I know this is a slippery slope but not everything that looks like a New World Order is of the NWO.  Not that a little paranoia is a bad thing.   ;)


I agree if we were living in a God fearing country, but unfortunately those days are behind us, so lets tax the godless capitalists to death.   :)

I would prefer a graduated income tax, something where if you make over a million a year you pay 90% in taxes with no loop holes.  (No one needs that much money)  But unfortunately I am not in charge.  ;D


Actually that quote goes....

A liberal is someone who gives away other peoples' money.

A conservative is some who doesn't give away his own money.

... and there lies the problem.   If we went back to the system of relying on cheerful givers we would not get near enough money coming in.

In light of the season it should be mentioned that Ebenezer Scrooge was a conservative. :D

Scroog was Hardline-conservative. And a Fundie, I might add. ;)

Personally, I like Bush’s new Consumer Tax plan. I think it will bring in more money for the Government, and show American’s how much comfort we an live without! ;D