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Theology => Apologetics => Topic started by: Jabez on December 13, 2003, 09:34:53 AM



Title: Atonement
Post by: Jabez on December 13, 2003, 09:34:53 AM
Ive seen some jewish people say that the death of Jesus for atonement was not allowed under Levitical Law.Human sacrafice was not allowed according to the Torah(OT).What can you say to them about that?


Title: Re:Atonement
Post by: Tibby on December 13, 2003, 02:45:56 PM
Well...

Ask them what the Torah has to say about divine sacrifice. Sure, he was fully man, but he was also fully God. ;)


Title: Re:Atonement
Post by: Whitehorse on December 13, 2003, 04:49:50 PM
To kill Jesus *was* unlawful. It was the hands of sinful men who crucified Him. That's why Jesus said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

In fact, Jesus reveals while talking to Pontius Pilate that Pilate sinned in sentencing Jesus, and the one who handed Him over committed a greater sin. So crucifying Jesus was sin. But it was predestined. God meant it to happen as an atonement for the sins of the world.

Be that as it may, God didn't kill Jesus. But He had a plan for those who did. God would use it for our benefit.


Title: Re:Atonement
Post by: Petro on December 15, 2003, 01:52:06 AM
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Ive seen some jewish people say that the death of Jesus for atonement was not allowed under Levitical Law.Human sacrafice was not allowed according to the Torah(OT).What can you say to them about that?

It is amazing they can say this. since their own high Priest prophecied the death of one man that the nation not perish;

read carefully;

Jhn 11
49  And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50  Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

Notice the following verse;

51  And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52  And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

After prophecying this, this high priest together with all the other religious leaders sought to kill Him.

I ask you were they not blind??  see the next verses;

53  Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

But notice how that God was the one who planned His own sacrifice,by delivering Jesus into wicked hand who crucified and slayed Him  (Acts 2:23) just as Abraham spoke to his son Isaac, when Abraham went up Mt Moriah (where Jrusalem was to be built) ;

"My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."  (Gen 22:8)

But notice what the scriptures say concerning these did the work of their father Satan;

1 Cor 2
7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8  Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Jews presently have been blinded, in the reading of the OT, if not they could see, Isaiah'sm teaching concerning the suffering messiah for the sins of the nation at Isaiaih 53.


Blessings,

Petro




Title: Re:Atonement
Post by: Allinall on December 15, 2003, 06:51:09 AM
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Ive seen some jewish people say that the death of Jesus for atonement was not allowed under Levitical Law.Human sacrafice was not allowed according to the Torah(OT).What can you say to them about that?

I say that this sacrifice was not only allowed, it was required.  The Old Covenant Day of Atonement sacrifice is what sacrifice that was made by Christ.  That sacrifice was offered only by the high priest each year...

Quote
So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him,   "You are my Son,
   today I have begotten you";
as he says also in another place,   "You are a priest forever,
   after the order of Melchizedek."

Hebrews 5:5-6

That sacrifice was offered yearly for the sins of God's people...

Quote
When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He abolishes the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.  And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Hebrews 10:7-14

That sacrifice was made via two goats.  Lots were cast, and the lot that fell on the one goat would be the goat to be sacrificed.  The blood of that goat would then be sprinkled on the Mercy Seat for the atonement of the sin of God's people...

Quote
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Romans 5:10-11

That sacrifice required that the sins of the people be laid upon the living goat, and that that goat would be taken out into the desert, far from the people...

Quote
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

1 Peter 2:24

This sacrifice of the perfect redemptive and substitionary blood, of satisfactory removal of sin, and offered by the only individual capable, the High Priest, was made by Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary.  It was not only allowed, it was required.   :)