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I was asked this question,and i did not know.I am going to do a study on this to conclude my thoughts on it.Anyone have any thoughts?

What you ever heard the joke about what does a full grown Elephant does?

He does what ever we wants. ;D Maybe you forget, but Jesus is both GOD and the Son of GOD. Last time someone messed with the son of God, he beat them up and took their house key ;) ;D

Ok, for real, The main reason theologians believe he did this was to enter the priesthood. We all know about the old Testament prophecy about Jesus and the Melchizedek priesthood. This was part of it. One must be washed in water, anointed with oil, and be at least 30 years old to become an Old Testament Priest. He was al ready 30, the other 2 came when he was Baptized.

In Mat 3, John Asked him why. Just a few verses ago, he was talking about not even being worthy to touching his feet. Now Jesus wants to get Baptized by HIM. I’m sure he was as confused as you. In Verse 15 of Chapter 3, Jesus replied, and I quote "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." I think part of it was that he just didn’t want to be a “Do as I say, not as I do” kind of person. His life it and example to us, as it should be. Not just what he said, but what he did. For those that believe Baptism is required for salvation, it is seen as fulfillment of this. Just like he held the first “communion,” he was likewise baptized.

Baptism sy,bolizes our death with Christ, the death of our sinful nature, because of what Jesus did on the cross. So we are partakers with Him. I believe He did it to symbolize what He was going to do-His sacrificial role. And possibly to set the example for us, because we are partaking with Him. In Jesus we are partaking in a new covenant, and He may have wanted to set the standard, so to speak, but that's my speculation.

Matthew 3:13.  Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
 14.  But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
 15.  And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
 16.  And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
 17.  And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Righteousness:

Strong's Number: 1343
Transliterated: dikaiosune
Phonetic: dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay

Text:  from 1342; equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification: --righteousness.


Becometh:

Strong's Number: 4241
Transliterated: prepo
Phonetic: prep'-o

Text:  apparently a primary verb; to tower up (be conspicuous), i.e. (by implication) to be suitable or proper (third person singular present indicative, often used impersonally, it is fit or right): --become, comely.

Jesus said, baptism was proper for us to fullfill all righteousness.

Who is the us?

Is it a reference to the Godhead, God, the Father, The Holy Spirit, and Jesus the Son of God?
Is it all who come to faith in Christ?
Is it Christ, John and those present at that time?
Is it Christ alone?

Whatever us is refering to, we are told that Christ, (us), was baptised to fullfill all righteousness.

Does this imply or infer that baptism for the faithful fullfills righteousness or makes one complete in the sanctification process of God to His saints?

Does Jesus set the example for all concerning baptism?

  As John indicated, Jesus was morally perfect in every way and on His account needed no baptism; but Jesus was acting on behalf of those in Him. They were His sheep, chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. But they were also, in themselves, sinners. Thus the baptism of Jesus by John was essential to His fulfilling the law on their behalf. For that reason Jesus said, "suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." The "us" Jesus spoke of was Himself as a federal representative of those in Him.
He used "us" as a reference to Himself and all those in Him. By His obedience He fulfilled "all righteousness" not only by being baptized, but by every act of obedience throughout His life.
THAT is a righteousness we can fully rely upon as making us acceptable to the Father.

The dialogue, in the verse in question is between Jesus and John, so the context clearly identifies who the "us" is, it refers to both of them.

It is understood from the text of the passage, that John understood perfectly that it was not needfull for him to baptize Jesus (sin He was sinless) but that he (John) needed to be baptized by Jesus .

Jesus indentified himself with those godly Israelites who were coming to be baptized unto repentance.

John understood that he must baptize Jesus, in order tyo make Him manifest to Israel the nation. (Jhn 1:31-33)

If we make the word "us" to include everyone;

Then the teaching that one must be water baptized, becomes a necessity, thus the reason for the teaching, that water Baptism is more than symbolic of the only one true Baptism with the Holy Spirit.


Blessings,

Petro

Here's an interesting factor...it was after Jesus was baptized that...


In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit's ministry was one of temporary measure.  That is, the Old Testament believer didn't have an indwelt Holy Spirit.  The Spirit came upon many in order that they would be able to perform certain tasks that God had called them too.  Take Samson for example, or Gideon.  God enabled them in specific ways to do the work He'd called them too. When the kings of Israel came on the scene, this practice didn't end.  Saul had the Spirit come upon him to enable this donkey-chaser to be a king!  When Saul disobeyed, that Spirit was taken away - that is, his ability to be king was removed.  Where did that ability and subsequent annointing go?  David!  This kingly annointing went on until the kingdoms was taken down (can't remember the fella right off the top of my head, but after him, no other kings were annointed with this Spiritual empowerment).  Not until the King had come...the Spirit landed on Jesus, as the same spiritual annointing for the kingship in times past.  Jesus was King.  BTW, this was also a sign that John the Baptist was to be looking for.  Just a side thought...

It seems to me that baptism is important, however, there is one example of a man that was not water baptised who entered heaven.  The thief on the cross was told by Jesus, he would be with him in paradise that day seems to say one can enter heaven without baptism (water).  On the other hand, I think water baptism is important simply because Jesus commanded it, and set the example.  

For me personally, I feel If I cannot be faithful with the smallest things Jesus asked, how can I be faithful with greater things?  

Grace and Peace!

I don't think true born again Christians would deny water baptism is unimportant, but compared to Baptism with the Holy Spirit, this is the One Baptism which matters of the two types spoken of in Gods Word.

When understood perfectly, there is no disagreement between children of God, who hold to the teaching of the Spirit concerning this issue, however, there are those who  count themselves to be of God, that teach contrary to the Word of God,

That water baptism is necessary for salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which causes confusion and division among the unlearned within the body of Christ, simply because some Christians chose to listen to mans teachings rather than the Spirits.

Some go so far as to teach, water baptism must of necessity precede the baptism of the Holy spirit, which is error, since the baptism in veiw is not of the Holy Spirit, at all but, with the Holy Spirit.

Quite a difference....



Blessings,

Petro

Very well stated Petro!

Grace and Peace!

As Jesus said to John,"Baptise me to fulfill the scriptures";notice he didn't say he needed baptism in order to receive the Holy Spirit,which as we know,he had already received at birth,as had John. Baptism was a popular harmless ceremony,and because Jesus came "not to destroy" harmless customs and traditions,he saw no harm in being baptised by John.
I haven't been baptised because it's not my style,as I've no interest in dead material atoms of H2O, and to his credit even a Baptist Minister told me its not necessary for salvation. Yet some people think it automatically makes them "holy" despite baptism and the coming of the holy spirit being completely unrelated:-
  "The holy spirit hadn't come upon the Samaritans as they'd simply been baptised" (Acts 8:16)
  And no doubt some baptised people think they're holier than those who haven't been.
  And  people who haven't been baptised might wrongly think they're inferior to someone who has been. See how divisive and satanic the subject of baptism can be when used by some to bully others into going through with it?
  Paul got fed up of people pestering him to baptise them. He said:-"Jesus sent me not to baptise,but to preach the gospel" (1 Cor 1:17)
  We need no weak water to wash us clean. Jesus said:- "You're already clean through the word I spoke to you" (John 15:3)
And when people asked Jesus "how can I receive eternal life?",Jesus made no mention of water-baptism being needed.
  Baptism is just a nice ceremony for those who like ceremony.If people think water has holy magic properties,it smacks of matter-worship,or idolatry.

I was raised southern baptist and I also after much biblical searching believe that baptism is simply a symbolic gesture to show ones newness in christ. :) I have often wondered why certain faiths baptise their infants? What is that all about? How can an infant choose a life with Christ and why do they need to be baptised? are they pure and free of sin when they are born? not trying to "bash" anyone just curious?

broken1,

Hi, and Welcome to the forum.

Your question can be answered using one word;

Tradition.

Blessings,
Petro

This is a very deep question, and other that is hard to answer without bashing one or the other group. But I’ll try. It all comes down to the fact that these other groups view Baptism completely different from how there brothers and sisters in Christ do. It is hard to understand someone’s actions without first understanding their thinking.

Assuming that baptism is only a symbol, to baptize an infant is a waste of time. But these other groups do not believe it is only a symbol, they believe it is a requirement for salvation. So, assuming what they believe is true, the best thing to do would be to Baptist the Child as soon as possible. It is all a thing of perspective. They perceive Baptism differently then you do, so they naturally will treat is differently.

Disclaimer: I’m not trying to say perception is truth, only that the perception is at fault for the differences in beliefs.

Also, You must keep in mind that many of these groups view Salvation as a Journey. Southern Baptist run the area I live in, and they seem to understand salvation to be a “magic moment” where Jesus comes into your heart, and you are saved. But this is not the case with the other groups, they perceive salvation as a journey, and Baptist is just the first step, they view Baptism as a sort of consecration, a dedication. With this view, of course they would want to baptize a child, dedicate them to God, and start them on there Journey of Salvation.

I hope that answers your question. I tried to explain the how the other half thinks as best I could with being bias. :-\

Of course, Petro is also right. Take a group of 10th generation Christians, and I’m willing to bet at least half of them do the whole Sunday thing because that is the tradition, the way it has always been done, not because they love God and want to please him. It is very sad. I see many Christians like that in this area. It is easier to drag yourself to church hungover from Saturday night then it is to be a Christian all week. Many of them take a medieval peasant view of God, as being some mystical creature in the sky. They show respect for “preachermen” and the church, but that is Tradition and fear, not love and respect.


One last thing before I post this:

No. They are instantly born into sin.

broken1

I was pressed for time, when I answered you the first time.

As tibby as said,  "This is a very deep question"

The fact is that within the christian camp ther are two factions, one believes what the bible teaches; and that is that man is born into this life stained with what is known as "original sin", dead to the things of God, the verses top support this are found in;   Col2:13, Eph 2:1, 1 Cor 15:21-22, Rom9:1-15, etc etc.

The other, believes and teaches men are not born with original sin, but are perfectly sinless ( I am surprised tibby, posted what he did), and them when he reaches an age of accountability, sins and dies spiritually, and then at a later time comes to faith using their "free will",  the verses they use to support his are;  0

Tradition and church teachings...


Blessings,

Petro

As Tibby said, if you view baptism as primarily us doing something, then it makes little sense to baptize infants (although I believe the presbetarians still do - you'd have to ask them).

On the other hand, if you believe baptism as primarily about God doing something, then it makes sense for it to happen as early as possible, so that the children can grow up in Christ.

It doesn't make much sense to talk about when to baptize, until you've decided what it is, and that's where the real difference lies.

The bible is ambiguous about it, but it is clear that the church has been baptizing infants for a very long time.

thanks for answering my question..good point about the difference in views on baptism.  I really know very little about other denominations beliefs - I am enjoying learning. My husband is of the Lutheran faith but rarely do we discuss religion as he is not active in church anymore.

Glad we helped.

You will also be glad to know this is the first time me, Petro, and Ebia all agreed at once. ;D

"Don't be deceived by religion. Religion says "DO", whereas Christianity says "DONE !" Christ paid the full price for your salvation. Believe and be saved today."

That is why, as soon as we are saved, we never feel the need to sin again, because salvation is 5 second acceptance, not an on-going process. ::) We don’t have to work on anything, at all. Are you alcoholic? Get saved, as soon as you are saved, you will never think about it. Do you struggle with lust? Get saved, as soon as you are, you will never lust again, and never desire someone of the opposite sex until you are married. ::)

Yeah, Salvation is a 5 second thing. ::) There is no work involved. Grace only matter for the 5 second we are saved. ::)

When and if you ever get saved, then we will talk about it. ;D

Uncalled for ::)

Hello may i jump in?

It is a Will of God, baptism is fullfillment of God's will.

Thank you

Freedom From Human Regulations Through Life With Christ

Colossians 2:6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

When I read this whole passage, it starts to sound like Christ was baptized and so we don't need to be.  ???

When you ask this kind of question it is because you are understanding what you are reading.

Note:

Mat 21
20  Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
21  And he said unto her,  wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22  But Jesus answered and said,  Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?  They say unto him, We are able.
23  And he saith unto them,  Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.


Also, at Luke 12:50, Mk 10:38.

Jesus's death is the baptism with the Holy Spirit, with which He baptizes all those who are given to Him, by the Father

This Baptism is described at;

Eph 1
9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

John's baptism, was a baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Water Baptism is symbolic of the one and only true Baptism with the Holy Spirit which God performs on every believer, not man.


Blessings,

Petro

1.  Jesus was Baptised as an example we should follow.
2.  Whomever publicly proclaims Jesus is Lord... (Baptism is a way to publicly proclaim faith in Him).
3.  It's just what us Baptists do.  ;D

Jesus said we have to be baptized with water and the Holy Spirit to enter heaven. I bleieve Jesus used the thief on the cross to show people that, no matter what sins we've committed, all we have to do is believe Jesus. The thief was used to show who Jesus was just like Lazarus, the blind man, and others whom He healed. Water baptism is not only a cleansing ritual, I believe the most important aspect of it is to show "good faith". In other words it shows a desire to please God even if one doesn't yet know God. By baptising with water, John the Baptist prepared the way for the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Baptism prepares the way for us because it opens our hearts to receive God's love. The desire to be baptized, is the first step toward the ability to receive the Holy Spirit.

I must disagree.  Jesus didn't say that we have to be baptized in order to be saved.  He said...


I know.  "He says right there "...is baptized will be saved."  Yup.  If you take the transliterated wording that every translation does.  The original word is baptizo which means to imerse or to wash thoroughly.  Jesus said, whoever believes and is washed thoroughly will be saved.


It is the washing of regeneration, not water, not being baptized that saves.  By the blood of Christ alone.  

Jesus said we must be washed.  Not baptized to be saved.   :)

I never said that baptism alone saves. Jesus said in John, 3:5, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the spirit." I believe Him.

Amen,  not only are we saved by His baptism, but it is a Baptism for us with the Holy Spirit, not "of" ghe Holy Spirit.

Col 2
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,
7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.
11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

One can be water baptized, and not believe, this is evidenced by no Holy Spirit in their lives.

Anyone, who trusts the Word and comes to belief in Gods LIVING Word,  has been Baptized with the Holy Spirit and is sealed by that same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead.

Rom 8
9  ...............Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


Blessings,

Petro

I think that is an important disticintion, Petro. If people believe it is baptism "of" the Holy Ghost" then they think they're saved by baptism alone. there are many churches with this view.

Heidi,

After reading your post I saw I had inserted the word "by" and had to correct it.

When the word "by", "of, are inserted for the word "with" it definitely changes the meaning of the Baptism which was to be performed by Jesus,  spoken by John the Baptist at John 1:33.

John baptized with water, in order to make Jesus manifest to the Nation of Israel, he makes this clear at (Jhn 1:31), his baptism did not produce the Holy Spirit, but the Baptism of Jesus did and does even today, this is the real baptism spoke of by John...


Blessings,

Petro

I disagree. i was baptized as an infant and didn't have a clue that Jesus was real until I received the Holy Spirit 35 years later.

I don't understand what you disagree with.

But, it doesn't matter, the fact you were an infant, means to me, you doidn't know the difference between the meaning of these words anyhow.

And it is clear if and when you received the Holy Spirit it was because you trusted in Gods Word.

Blessings,

Petro

Actually, I did not trust God's word before I received the Holy Spirit. It didn't make sense to me. Within minutes I went from being an agnostic to a staunch supporter of Christ because after receiveing the Holy Spirit, i knew He was real. It is the Holy Spirit that shows us the truth of His words, not our superior intelligence.

Hmmmmm....  so, let me see if I understand?

You received the Holy Spirit before you believed??

I don't know that this sounds right to me, but I guess if anyone knows that would be you....

What else can I say......nothing I guess.

Blessings,
Petro

Of course. It's the Holy Spirit that enables us to believe. It isn't our superior intelligence or loving heart and excellent wisdom. It's the Holy Spirit. That's why all of Jesus's disciples abandoned Him at His death. It wasn't until they received the Holy Spirit at pentecost that they "suddenly" decided to give up their lives for Him. Jesus said "eternal life is this: That you know the one true God and His son, Jesus Christ." He specifically used the word "know". When did you receive the Holy Spirit?