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helping the body of Christ and the Kingdom of God.

Please be patient with me as I try to articulate what I'm seeking biblical guidance about.

I would like to know IF/WHERE the principal in the bible talks about non-Christians helping out the body or working for the Kingdom..
(please ask if you don't understand and please I ask that personal opinions remain just that - I want to truly know what the bible says as this has troubled me.




Here are some scenarios to set the stage:

I.

a) A local Christian church (body) reaches out to the community in need at Christmas time.

b) The same Christian church (body) engages local businesses to assist in the outreach via accepting collections at their establishment or monetary donations.

    I can see the biblical principle in Scenario A but not B - am I incorrect?

II.

a) A local Christian church (body) has had a devastation by fire, weather.... to the building where worship is held. The body of believersfrom that particular church join in financially, give of their time and pray. Other local body's may join in to help rebuild etc..

b) A local Christian church (body) has had a devastation by fire, weather.... to the building where worship is held. The body of believers from that particular church join in financially, give of their time and pray.
They request that both Christian and non-Christians alike come and assist in the clean up, rebuilding etc. (whether the non-Christians are witnessed to is not known and if they are does that make a difference?

    Again, I can see the biblical principal in Scenario A, but not B. I'm also seeing other issues arise (not too big for GOD).


So, can you truly help me with this one from a truly biblical perspective. If so, it's greatly appreciated.

Thank you and God Bless.

Hello Beloved,

I don't understand the purpose for this question, but the answers are throughout the entire Bible from cover to cover. The Biblical Principles you are asking about are the most basic foundations of Christianity.

1 - If someone rejects JESUS CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOUR, they are going to hell for eternal punishment. If they spend 24/7 doing good works, it won't make any difference at all. No amount of good works will result in Salvation, so the good works are a moot issue for the lost. The best that a lost person could hope for in doing good works is recognition by mankind - not GOD.

2 - If a CHRISTIAN does good works, it's only recognized by GOD as good works if those works are motivated by love alone. GOD rewards ONLY Christians for good works, and there are eternal rewards for good works if they meet GOD'S Standards. JESUS CHRIST is the only judge of good works done by Christians. As an example, if the good works are done as a duty, for personal gain, or for personal recognition, the good works are burned up. As an example, feeding the poor out of love alone is good works that will be recognized by GOD. If you add personal recognition to this Christian's good works, they are burned up, and the Christian already got all the recognition they are going to get from humans - NOT GOD.
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Your question was about Biblical principles, not human principles. Feeding the poor and other good things are obviously nice things to do. False religions such as Humanism may recognize these good works as more than just NICE, but Humanism has nothing to do with the HOLY BIBLE, Salvation, or GOD. Unless you are a Christian acting out of love alone, good works are simply NICE. As another example, a LOST and rich person feeding millions would get recognition from men - NOT GOD. As another example, a Christian paying for a church building with the stipulation that their name be posted all over it will get recognition from men - NOT GOD. As a last example, a poor Christian putting their last quarter in the offering plate because they love GOD will most definitely be recognized by GOD.
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In conclusion, JESUS CHRIST gave HIMSELF willingly on the CROSS out of love alone for the Salvation of mankind. This was a loving GIFT, and no power in the universe could have forced CHRIST to the CROSS. Any good works or gifts by mankind must be of the same kind IN GOD! I said "IN GOD" because Christians are IN THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. So, Christians are IN CHRIST, and their "LOVE WORKS AND OFFERINGS" are the only ones recognized by GOD as being good. GOD THE FATHER recognized the sacrifice of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS as GOOD, PERFECT, AND HOLY. Prior to the CROSS, GOD was never pleased or satisfied with burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin. GOD judges things in a PURE and HOLY manner - not a human manner. So, Humanists are serving the devil - NOT GOD!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hi Beloved,

It is important that the Gospel be preached even to these. Should we turn them away or reject their help because they are not Christians? No, that is what it is saying in Mark 9:38-40. How many people are there that come to church every day there is a service and yet do not know the Lord as their Saviour? It is difficult for us to say this as only the Lord truly knows their hearts but I would venture that there are quite a few.

It is a travesty for us to pass up any opportunity to witness for the Lord. That not only includes thes instances that you speak of but also in anyone that we may meet in any other circumstances.

1) Okay, so please bear with me as I can be slow at times.   So, you are saying that Mark 9:38-40 is the biblical basis to support the body of Christ soliciting help in either of the situations I presented in my OP (opening post)?????

2) I wasn't wanting to go into too much detail, but recently a local body did have damage due to the weather and accordingly help from other members of the Body were asked to assist.

 There was an additional request to forward the e-mail to ANYONE - your neighbor, friends, relatives ....  I knew the urgency of the need for assistance, but I honestly could not bring myself to forward the e-mail to ppl I knew that were either atheist or have for the most part rejected Christ (to my knowledge).  I have relatives that feel I should go to a family members birthday party rather than serve at my church so this is what trouble my heart and I wondered if I was lacking faith and trust or that this was not biblical.  I also felt uncomfortable questioning 'authority' although I know from my own experience and from hearing not all who are in 'authority' are good leaders or always correct.

I'm sure I've rattled on quite a bit, but I am still confused. ???





I agree, but I would at least venture to say if they are attending regularly the Holy Spirit is at work in them and they are seeking and God will draw near to them. 

Agreed.  Again, I felt uncertain to what God had to say about it so I wanted to find out since I myself was lacking that knowledge.

Thank you .

Hello Beloved,

I think that I'm getting close to understanding what you really want to know and why.

Individual circumstances could become a problem and become a matter of prayer - something that should not be decided quickly or without care. Let's give a clear example that makes this easier to understand and think about. Let's say that the local abortion clinic wants to foot the entire bill for rebuilding the church. Let's make the example worse and say that they want permanent recognition IN or ON the building for their gift. Should the church take this gift?

The above example isn't vague or general and does involve a moral dilemma in my opinion. Am I getting close to the specific reasons and thinking that brought up the questions? The more general and unknown sources of help don't cause this type of immediate concern. I, for one, would have a hard time taking money made from the killing of babies. Could this be a starting point for a discussion that everyone would understand easily?

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

Yes, I would have difficulty with that also.

Good Morning Brother Roger!

I'm hoping this is close to the reason for the original question. We'll find out.

I can think of some like examples that wouldn't be quite as bad, but still bad enough to cause thought and prayer before answering.

On the other side of the coin, I can think of many general efforts we've had in our own city to help victims of disaster in our own country and others. By general, I'm talking about everyone trying to help with food, clothes, and anything else that was needed. It wasn't just one church or one disaster organization trying to coordinate the assistance, rather it was almost the entire city. Nobody knew where all of the supplies came from, but they did know that the supplies were desperately needed. I remember several city-wide drives for assistance like this, and I felt good about participating. Maybe I was wrong, but I didn't consider the fact that some of that assistance might have come from some pretty evil sources. I really do think that more specific circumstances are required before making this a major worry.

There were collection places all over the city for Hurricane Katrina, and these included the Fire Stations, the Police Station, numerous local charities, and several businesses that were not of the type that I gave in the example. If the question was more vague and general, I would say that everyone should be encouraged to help.

Good morning.

Even without specific scriptures to support the idea it would be quite apparent that accepting money from somewhere like an abortion clinic would be wrong. It would be no different than saying that we support abortion. I was thinking more along the lines of a hardware/lumber store that is owned by a non-christian yet has proven to be friendly toward the church, Christians and God's message that perhaps donated supplies or at least given a substantial reduction in costs.

Another instance is the Church's youth group held a car wash where they accepted donations to help them pay for a youth trip to Mexico where they were going to aid a mission. I know that many of those getting their car wash were not Christians. I was well pleased to see the testimony given by the youth and the witnessing they did with a number of them. Invitations to the Church were given to everyone.

There is a difference of morality and christianity.  Ther are good deeds done for the sake of morality, but it is earthly and will stay earthly with earthly gain.  Judas thought of political gain.  He sat with the Lord heard the teachings but did not have a heart for the Lord and there are some like that today who seek their own gain.  Christians are to glorify God in all they do for without the Lord nothing is gained but vain glory.  You will knw a christian by His love for God first and through that love, there is obedience and through obedience what is done leads to glorify God. Also, through God's word there is discernment to know what is of God and what is not..

Thank you all for additional input. 


BEP, with regard to the example that would fall into this discussion, but I think this might be where I'm confusing ppl is that I'm not talking about paying outsiders or anyone getting the glory - I'm talking about:

Should we as believers be calling in unbelievers for the giving of their time and labor?

Your church gets flooded by weather and damage is done to the carpets, floors, ceiling... I feel this is where the body of believers should 'seek' help from other believers - now, if a non-believer wants to assist and will be witnessed to I guess I don't have an issue with that.

 

This is not the same as it the church providing a service for a fee to raise funds - this I don't see as unbiblical per se. (I could be wrong)


Okay, and still I see a difference here because the hardware/lumber store is chosing to give to the church and obviously God has at least led this person to extend kindness.  So, is this where Mark 9:38-40 applies?


Maryjane - I agree.

Well, I think the big answer has been to pray about it and this has helped me sort out my feelings regarding the issue to some extent.