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Is it because we fear God or is it because we love God (John 14:15)? If we do it out of fear, it mean that we are trying to save our self from punishment?  In other words, it is out of self interest. On the other hand if it is out of love, then it is pure, holy and selfless. Which of the two reasons will bring us peace?

A little fear isn't a bad thing. Jonathan Edward's sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" brought revival and many people back to the Lord. Too many Christians are a bit too "familiar" with God these days.

On the other hand, if you keep the commandments only out of fear, you won't have peace because you will always be running scared that you might break or have unknowingly broken one or more. Love is certainly the better motivation. But both can have their place.

Hi surrendersacrifice,

Hmmm - I agree, a little fear isn't a bad thing. Psalm 111:10 says, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever."

But also, after we understand our salvation and the love God has for us, and that He sacrificed His only begotten Son for our sakes, we learn to love Him. I think then, with that understanding and love, we strive to keep His commandments. I guess it started in the beginning, Genesis 1:3-5 says, "Then God said, 'Let there be light'; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and ther was morning, one day"

Right away, God sees the light is good and makes a distinct separation between light and darkness, between good and evil. Jesus came to show us how to walk, He said 'Follow Me', the call to discipleship. He enables us to fight our own flesh to do what He did, to walk the way He showed us. Luke 6:40 says, "Every disciple, fully trained, will be like his teacher." So we strive, with the help of God, to do as He, our Loving Father, instructed His children. Jesus came to reveal the Father to us in a way we could understand so we could be more like Him. We wouldn't understand holiness or righteousness without God and His commandments. His Word, His commandments, are a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path!

We pray "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven...", and so we strive, empowered by the Holy Spirit, to be disciples, imitators, of our Master. Colossians 1:9-14 says,

"For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to sask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the LORD, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light. For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

So, as citizens, now of the Kingdom of Light, we want to submit to His loving instructions, His commandments.

The whole Bible teaches us from the beginning of Genesis, through Revelation, what God's definition of righteousness is, what dwelling in light is, how God's people are to live, and who the King of the light is.

"For not just the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified." (Romans 2:13)

"So then the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good." (Romans 7:12)

What matters is "the keeping of the commandments of God." (I Corinthians 7:19)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in me as it is in heaven...

I think, definately, out of love, admiration and awe we obey His commandments!

                                   Amen Barbara !!!!!!


                                   Yours in Yeshua

Well, fear is what will keep me out of hell. When I realized that I was lost, I was terrified that I would die that way and did something about it by accepting Jesus Christ as my Saviour. We don't have to keep the 10 commandments in order to go to heave, but if we're born again we will desire and strive to obey God in all things. We will desire holiness in ourselves. We will want to do right and not live in sin.

Do you mean that in 1 Cor 7: 14 is the commandments of Law , and that is what Paul is talking about ?  Paul in 1 Cor 14:37 , writes if anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual , let him know accurately that the things I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. I pastor Roger mentioned , Greek words have more than one meaning. Know accurately is in the imperative mood of command.Paul has more than than a couple of these commands in the imperative mood. I would like you clarify for me.

Jesus taught, " If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."  Jesus then began to name some of them. He said, "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not give false testimony, Honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.(Matthew 19:16-19) Jesus didn't come to abolish the Law. He said, "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:19) Instead of teaching against keeping the Law, Jesus magnified it and gave the true meaning of the commandments. LOVE. Jesus said, "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it.' Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.(Matthew 22:37-40) *Read the Ten Commandments of God's Royal Law and notice what Jesus is teaching. The first four commandments teach us how to show our love toward God, and the last six show us how to love our neigbor. Jesus magnified our understanding of the Ten Commandments by showing that it is LOVE that fulfills them. In other words, love complete's the righteous requirement of the Law. Jesus said, " If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.(John 15:10) Keeping the commandments is our way of showing true love to God and man. If we are Christians, that means that we are followers of Jesus and that we walk by his Spirit. We are to imitate him, and follow his example. Yes, Christians are to let Jesus' life live through them. This includes keeping and upholding the Ten Commandments. The commandments are a love relationship between God, us as an individual, and each other. Since when is it legalism or a form of bondage to truly love God and Mankind? Look! God's people are identified as those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.(Revelation 12:17/14:12) Walking by the Spirit of God only means letting the life of Christ fulfill in us the righteous requirements of the Commandments. Notice that walking in the Spirit is the opposite of breaking God's commandments.(Colossians 3, Ephesians 4:20-32/5:1-11, Galatians 5:16-26) Jesus taught this and so did his apostles. Paul has been quoted as if he taught against keeping the commandments. No, Paul taught that even though we live by faith, we still should uphold the Law, not nullify it and use faith as an excuse to sin.(Romans 3:31) Paul also taught that in our minds we should be a slave to God's Law.(Romans 7:25) Also notice that for Paul, in his inner being he delighted in God's Law.(Romans 7:22) The Law shows us what sin is so that we can practice righteousness and not sin. It is impossible for us to live righteously and not keep the commandments because the Law is righteous. So if I claim to be a Christian, I must understand that I will want to keep the Ten Commandments out of love for God, Christ, and man. Think about it. When has it ever been right to worship other gods? To make an idol and worship it? To misuse the name of God? To not keep the Sabbath(7th)Day holy? To not honor your Father and Mother? To murder? To commit adultery? To steal? To bear false testimony against your neighbor? To covet anything of your neighbors? It is very clear that God has said that anyone who continues to break these commandments will not inherit everlasting life.(Revelation 22:15, Ephesians 5:3-5. Galatians 5:19-21) Don't deceive yourselves into believing that you don't have to uphold the commandments, because it is clear that if you truly love God, you will want to.(No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3;9-10)

To The Blessed Of God,
Bro. Niciah

You sound just like a FALSE TEACHER we've banned several times. Your message hasn't changed, and neither has the truth of the HOLY BIBLE. Salvation has nothing to do with our works - rather of the completed and perfect work of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS. Anything you have to post will be put in the debate section by you from the start. I hope you understand this. Regardless, I doubt that we will tolerate your grossly FALSE TEACHING for long. You quote isolated portions of Scripture that you don't understand and try to weave a FALSE RELIGION with it. Nobody here is interested in your FALSE RELIGION, AND YOU WON'T BE PREACHING IT HERE! See the following post for How to be SAVED!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

I am a Christian; I am not any of the people that was banned from this forum.  Please understand what I was trying to explain in my previous post.  I was not trying to explain that our salvation comes from works of the Law and not through our Lord Jesus. Salvation only comes through our faith in Jesus. What I was trying to explain in my recent post was that because of God's salvation through Christ our attitude toward sinning should be different. We should not sin deliberately. If we know what sin is, why should we knowingly commit it. When I spoke of the Ten commandments, my point was that the commandments show us what God viewed as sin and that as a Christian I should not purposely break it. I am not saying that we should keep the Law as a way to be saved. We can't earn our way to heaven. It is only by God's grace that we are saved. My point was that because I truly love God; I will not purposely sin. I apologize for any misunderstandings.

To God's Blessed
Bro. Niciah

I'm glad that you acknowledge this as it is truth and very important. With this knowledge why then put any emphasis on the Ten Commandments? Is there not sin that is mentioned besides the ten commandments even in the New Testament?


Those that were banned also claimed to be Christian and your post sounded very much like the stance that they took. Too much emphasis on the Ten Commandments and not a display of what it meant when Jesus said that He came to complete the law.

Rom 10:4  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:5  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

The laws written in stone were a shadow of things to come not The things to come. Let's take an example of one of the things that you mentioned in your first post. The Sabbath. What does the word Sabbath mean? It means rest. Not a "day of rest" but "rest". Where is our rest? Do we limit that rest to a day or days?

It is the love of God for me and my love of and for God that guides me. Not words on a tablet of stone nor is it just ten simple items but everything that we do and say. Our rest is in Jesus Christ and it is every day, for Christ is Lord over all days.

Thank you Pastor Roger for your recent comment.  Yes, there are other sins that we should be on guard for.  My purpose for naming the commandments was to show that they were a guide for God's people. They were to give us an idea about what God considered as sin so that we could self-examine our selves and not do anything that was even close to it. By the commandments we had the simple commandment of do not commit adultery, now through Christ it is sexual immorality. Do you see what I was trying to explain?  If we want to know what sin is, look at the commandments. That's a starting point. Then compare it to everything that Jesus taught his disciples and you will have the entire picture of what sin is and we will be on better guard not to sin. Paul spoke of sin this way, The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy,fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkeness, orgies, and the like.(Galatians 5:19-21) As a Christian, to know the strategies and influences of the enemy help us to guard our hearts from falling into the enemies snares. This is all that I was trying to explain.

I understand you and agree.

We find in Paul's writings that the Torah, and Tenach were given to us so we could know the mind of God. As we study and learn the commandments our Lord, all 613, we see what His desire for us is.
 
Does this mean that we are under the law?,heaven forbid. Does this mean that we are saved by our works? Again I say heaven forbid.  For by grace are we saved thru faith, and not of works lest any man should boast. We must fully understand however, that once our heart and mind have been given to God we will obey his commandments. We do so not in fear of punishment, even though that is there, but rather out of love and a desire to please the one who gave his all for us.

When we make mistakes and sin, our repentance should not be out of fear, but rather our hearts should be broken because we have hurt the Lord. Will we make mistakes and sin, yes(those of you who claim never to sin find an alter and repent for lying). The good new is he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sin, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Back to the question. We keep the commandments of our Lord out of love and respect for his wishes in our lives.

Ecc. 12:13 let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter, fear God, Keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

ravenloche

Excellent.  Thank you.

Brothers and Sisters,

It's fairly easy to be deceived by many of the false religions and false teachings today. One has to listen carefully and get through the thin veneer of what sounds reasonable. I'll just give a few examples:

One false cult teaches that not keeping the Sabbath is the sign of the beast.

Several false cults teach that mankind can be perfect, holy, and without sin RIGHT NOW in this short life. In fact, this becomes a requirement to keep Salvation.

Many false cults teach that sin is a loss of Salvation. There are NO human beings without sin, so this would make Salvation impossible for any human being.

One needs to look carefully when someone starts spouting a bunch of LAW because many of the false religions are based on the LAW - NOT GRACE!

Many of the false religions and cults teach that the individual saved person is responsible completely for either keeping or losing their SALVATION. It's like a never-ending payment plan on the part of the saved person. Any missed payment or failure on the saved person's part results in loss of SALVATION!

I'm just going to call things like they are and be blunt about this. I'm going to call these LAW CULTS. The finished and perfect work of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS is NOT the CORE AND PRIMARY FOCUS! The primary focus is what man does. Part of the clever deception is downplaying the work of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS and elevating man.

Many of these FALSE LAW CULTS don't even believe that JESUS CHRIST was and is VERY GOD! Pin them down and ask them, IS JESUS CHRIST GOD?
If they start stuttering and going into some other explanation to avoid a simple YES or NO, you are dealing with a FALSE CULT. Many of the FALSE LAW CULTS do horrible things to the ABSOLUTE DEITY OF THE GODHEAD, AND MOST OF THE TIME JESUS CHRIST! Why? JESUS CHRIST is the key and only way for SALVATION!

Let's make this simple and give you some questions to ask to quickly identify FALSE RELIGIONS AND FALSE CULTS:

1 - Is JESUS CHRIST GOD? The answer MUST be quickly YES!

2 - What MUST I do to be SAVED? The answer should be FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST and belief that HE died on the CROSS for me! YES - HE did die, but HE arose from the dead on the third day and IS THE RISEN SAVIOUR - VERY GOD! If they want to add works and keeping the law, they are a FALSE RELIGION OR CULT!

3 - What MUST I do to remain SAVED? JESUS CHRIST PAID IT ALL! I live because JESUS CHRIST lives - PERIOD! - END OF STORY! I'm saved for Eternity, and that's a Promise from GOD. If they want to add keeping the law and good works - THEY ARE A FALSE RELIGION AND FALSE CULT! SALVATION IS NOT on the installment plan. One is either SAVED for Eternity or LOST, and there is no in between.

4 - What part does good works and keeping the law have in SALVATION? The easy and quick answer MUST BE ZERO - NONE! Any other answer indicates a FALSE RELIGION OR FALSE CULT! It really is just this simple, and there is no Biblical answer for anything else.

5 - SO, what is the value of good works and trying to live GODLY lives? FIRST, these have NOTHING to do with SALVATION! Everything we do and say is part of our testimony before men. YES - we SHOULD have a desire to have a pleasing LIVING TESTIMONY before men to GLORIFY GOD - NOT OURSELVES! We SHOULD want to do GOOD WORKS for the same reason AND PART OF OUR LOVE AND APPRECIATION TO GOD. We are not RESPONSIBLE for our own SALVATION, and there is NOTHING we can do or NOT do to lose SALVATION! We are RESPONSIBLE for the quantity and quality of our EVERY DAY FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD! Our JOY and PEACE in this short life for a Christian depends greatly on our EVERY DAY FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD, so many Christians are happier than others because of yielding to the Will of GOD. GOOD WORKS ALSO RESULT IN REWARDS THAT ARE OVER AND ABOVE SALVATION! GOD tells us which GOOD WORKS HE will consider for REWARDS! They must be from love and appreciation to GOD ONLY and for the purpose of GLORIFYING ONLY GOD - NOT SELF! The Apostle Paul talked a lot about REWARDS, and he wanted them, but he wanted them only for the right reasons. Many people confuse what Paul said about REWARDS with SALVATION! They are TWO separate issues. LIKEWISE, many people confuse EXHORTATIONS FOR CHRISTIAN LIVING WITH SALVATION! The Holy Bible gives a host of EXHORTATIONS FOR CHRISTIAN LIVING, and NO Christian could ever meet them all. NOT MEETING THESE EXHORTATIONS FOR CHRISTIAN LIVING DOES NOT MEAN THAT ONE ISN'T SAVED OR HAS LOST THEIR SALVATION! If these EXHORTATIONS meant that, NOBODY would be saved.

Brothers and Sisters, in conclusion - there was a definite and obvious reason why JESUS CHRIST died on the CROSS for us. ALONE, we could not PLEASE GOD very often. ALONE, we should know that we don't HAVE ANY RIGHTEOUSNESS - ZERO! Our righteousness is as filthy rags. Any righteousness we have is GIVEN TO US by JESUS CHRIST - HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS - NOT OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS!

Bro. Niciah, how do you answer these 5 simple and most basic questions that are ALL BIBLE FACTS? Your answers will quickly tell me whether I misunderstood your first post or not. I don't think that I misunderstood it at all. If I did misunderstand it, I will apologize profusely. If I was correct in my understanding, my first reply to you STANDS!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Brothers and Sisters,

I wanted to add one more personal comment for the benefit of the regular users here. I don't plan to take apart Bro. Niciah's first post sentence by sentence. I won't bore you with that. I'll just tell you that the wording is there for some quite reasonable observations. I'm just going to give you one example from a one sentence quote:


This is NOT what JESUS taught, but what do you suppose this tiny sentence means? "LIFE" is SALVATION. We are NOT SAVED by obeying the commandments.

I simply wanted to give you more than a hint about how false religions deceive. One has to read every word carefully or listen to every word spoken. There are many other examples in this first post. The number of examples in my opinion could not be errors or misunderstanding. I hate lengthy debates about false religions and false teaching. Instead, the TRUTH takes care of everything, and I did provide the TRUTH that rebuts everything FALSE in this thread. In other words, I have no plan to argue word for word or sentence by sentence. Read Bro. Niciah's first post carefully and you should easily see it for yourself. Just don't speed-read or skip - read it all slowly and carefully. IT'S FALSE TEACHING!

Love In Christ,
Tom

BEP I believe that Bro. Micah cleared up his stance in the previous post


Now I have not been around a long time to remember some of the folks we have had on before.  But it is perfectly understandable that if you are wanting to use a comparison of the Law to anything you will stick with the 10 Commandments, because the unsaved are familiar with them as well.  The unsaved do not know the rest of the Law, the 600+ other rules and regulations.  So if I were to write a paper talking about grace versus works I would generally stick to what the readers would absolutely know...the 10 Commandments. 

Jesus did use the phrase "If you want to enter life, obey the commandment."  He used that as part of a bigger teaching.  one to show that by following the commandments out of love and a desire to follow Jesus you have succeeded.  And as Micah was talking about, it is because we love God and desire not to have God upset with us that we will strive to not break the commandments.  And that is what Jesus was teaching, faith, which is a willingness to obey God, will save you.

I personally got that out of either of the posts.  But that is me.

To God's Blessed
Bro. Niciah

I agree with Brother Tom on this. Those that rely on the verse in Matthew "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" all too often forget the rest of Jesus' words that follow that and use this verse to attempt to bring us back to the requirements of following the 10 Commandments which no man can do. It is also hinted at quite strongly by Niciah about worshiping only on the Sabbath which is not worshiping in spirit and truth. It is difficult many times to see through to the false teachings when a person also includes that which is right in an attempt to cover up that which is wrong. It is subtle things such as this that expose cults.

The law is our schoolmaster not our salvation nor is the law a requirement to maintain salvation.

Hello Brother Jerry and All,

I've heard restatements and attempted explanations from many false religions and false cults, and they don't float. However, they do still deceive many people and steer them away from SALVATION. Many of the false religions and false cults I'm thinking about and talking about also deny one or more of the HOLY TRINITY.

When the subject becomes SALVATION, only the TRUTH will work, and the ONLY WAY is taught here. No person in the history of mankind has ever been SAVED by obeying the Law, and no person has ever been able to keep the Law.

When some attempt to corrupt SALVATION with the keeping of the Law and good works by man, Christians must stand up and REBUKE IT! I did and I will continue to do so for the rest of my days on this earth. I will also do it without apology in a BOLD and BLUNT manner. I don't think there's any interest here in providing pulpits for false religions and false cults. If you'll notice, there is NO ANSWER from Bro. Niciah on the 5 most basic and simple BIBLE FACTS that pertain to SALVATION! There's been ample time and NO RESPONSE! If there is a response, it will be in denial of Bible Facts.

I'm not ashamed of the GOSPEL, and I don't apologize for telling the TRUTH! After reflection and prayer, I would do the same thing again and again and again. In fact, I pray that GOD gives all of us the strength and courage to shout the GOSPEL from the rooftops. I hope to NEVER apologize for the TRUTH of the GOSPEL. If I do, I hope to be REBUKED by another Brother and Sister in CHRIST!

One can read books and piles of materials from false religions and false cults. They are LOST, and it's a matter of LOVE to share the TRUTH with them. If their feelings are hurt in the effort, SO BE IT! That's not the intention. The intention is SALVATION and trying to prevent them from leading others AWAY FROM CHRIST. There are many pretty nice people in false religions and false cults, but they're still LOST and on their way to hell. It's not NICE for CHRISTIANS to withhold the TRUTH from them or to encourage them in any way to continue on their LOST PATH. We MUST also be concerned about the many they will DECEIVE! Our effort will be REAL LOVE, but it won't be politically correct. SALVATION is thousands of times more important than being politically correct. In fact, being politically correct is many times the ways of EVIL!

Some of the horribly false religions sound pretty good on the surface, and hosts of people are still being deceived to join them. These are probably the approaching end days of the Age of Grace. Time is running out, and great hosts will be going to HELL in the Eternal FIRES! I don't even have a problem in mentioning the horribly false religions by name: Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Islam, and many others. I mentioned these because they are common in our own part of the world AND THEY NEED THE TRUTH! THERE'S ONLY ONE TRUTH THAT WILL SET THEM FREE FROM THE CURSE OF SIN AND DEATH! Hopefully, many Christians will be brave and loving enough to give them the ONLY TRUTH!


Love In Christ,
Tom

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

I could not agree more with both of you, Roger and Tom. 

Roger, 
Exactly.  Jesus did use that phrase but in context it was part of a larger teaching.  One that can show that salvation should bring about a change in that one will desire to follow the commandments.  Not that it will save you or have anything to do with your salvation but it will be an effect of your salvation.

Tom,
I agree completely with you.  I was only trying to state that I saw nothing contrary to that in the posts.  I do believe that Niciah was meaning the same thing.  Even if his initial post was not as clear on that point he did clarify his stance later. 

Let's say that if he meant the same thing that he was far from being clear about it and he did in fact use many of the key words that cults use even when he clarified things. I do believe that the truth would be known clearly if he were to answer Brother Tom's questions.

As Christians we want to be  obedient to our Father. I've read the thread and seen all kinds of good answers. I thought I would add just a little different slant and see what youy think.
10 commandments, let's see, they show us that we are sinners in need of a Savior.
They show us how to get along with God.
They show us how to get along with our parents.
They show us how to get along with our friends and neighbors.
How to stay out of trouble.

Practical instructions for a happy life.

This is the purpose that the 10 commandments were given and the fact that without Him we were incapable of doing the rest.

Gal 3:19  What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; and it was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator.

I don't see how it is any different to do the works out of fear vs. out of love. You have to realize that when the bible talks about the fear of the Lord it is not talking about being scared of Him it is talking about a reverance for Him. in other words we are to fear [have an extreem reverence for] the Lord God. If you have a reverance for God then you will truly value and put into practice the things that He has told you to do. We also do this because we love Him. As Christ said if you love me keep my comandments. and when you keep His commandments you will live a life that is drastically different from what the world lives. Though we can never be saved through thw works they simple show the fruit of a changed life by the Holy Spirit.