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http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080115/30855_Cultural_Architect%3A__Why_Churches_are_Declining_in_America.htm (http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080115/30855_Cultural_Architect%3A__Why_Churches_are_Declining_in_America.htm)

A cutting-edge church leader known for his innovative ideas on reaching a post-modern generation for Christ contends the reason why churches are declining in America is because they are self-centered.

How is your church doing?

My church, the Christian and Missionary Alliance, is still growing. In the US it went from  1785 churches with 244,296 members in 1990 to 2010 churches with 417,000 members in 2006. Worldwide it went from 32,000 members in 444 churches in 1945 to about 3,500,000 members in more than 20,000 churches in 2006.

Actually I disagree with the article. Large growth does not always mean that the church is doing that which is right. Many of the mega-churches involved in the article are apt to "improve their ability to communicate the Gospel" by actually teaching another gospel, "they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears".

2Ti 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I would much rather be in a church that is small, doing the Lord's work, and teaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ than to be in a mega-church that is bowing to the selfish, sinful desires of people.

Hello Brother Rhys,

I think these are the last days of this Age of Grace, and Bible Prophecy tells us how many things will be. I don't know anything about your church, but I do know of many bad things happening in large churches. However, I firmly believe that each church must stand on its own merits, regardless of size.

There are many general things that are happening around the world, including this part of the world. These general things resemble the specifics of Bible Prophecy. There is definitely a turning away from GOD, and the "Itching ear" problem is very real. GENERALLY, many people do go to church for the wrong reasons. GENERALLY, people don't want to be told they are doing anything wrong. GENERALLY, people want to be entertained and don't want to sit under the sound doctrine of GOD'S WORD.

Brother, please remember that I don't know anything about your church and my statements were general. If these are the End Days of this Age of Grace, the Holy Bible tells us that things will get much worse. I honestly think we are watching the formation of global religions right now, and they will be further and further away from GOD. We already see "Health, Wealth, and Prosperity" type teachings and other teachings that are more related to man (Humanism) than GOD. AND, we already see political correctness as almost a higher priority than GOD in many churches. Political correctness basically teaches stay in your sin and be happy. I would simply say that this is a lost and dying world that desperately needs the full-strength Gospel of the Grace of GOD. The Gospel of the Grace of GOD is still the most powerful message in the world, and this is what the world needs.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 NASB  For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

While the overall subject of the article is about declining churches it is also about certain churches that "is known for breaking the “rules” of traditional church and applying spiritual creativity to engage and develop the next generation of Christian leaders". More or less bragging (the author not the pastor) on how that pastors church is growing while others are declining. I have visited one of the churches mentioned in the article in the past. It is about 2 and half to three hours from me. They have a rock concert on Sundays (no sermon) for 'non-believers' designed to bring in those that don't like to feel guilty when they leave the church after a sermon. Then the mid-week services hold a ‘Sacrament of Communion’ because of the many catholic members. It is operated like many mega churches that serve to the humanist desires.

I think that Brother Tom gave an excellent assessment on why churches are declining today and not the reasons given in the article nor does the article give the proper solution to the problem.


In this day and age this is not necessarily true as too many people are rejecting the true Gospel no matter how it is presented.

I put this post up on a couple of forums and I am rather surprised that prayer (or the lack of it) never came up as an issue. After all, the Bible says: "Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it".

Personally, I believe my own church is growing because we put a lot of emphasis on prayer. Probably about 1/3 of our Sunday service is prayer, and weeknight prayer meeting is fairly well attended (though I can't go anymore because I work nights).

I remember one church I attended years ago where we made a commitment to pray that the Lord would send in one new couple a month. Nothing else was done differently to bring people in, but after a few months we had to stop praying because we couldn't disciple all the new people.Unfortunately they never did get things organized to disciple better and start praying again!

If a church is declining I would look first at its prayer life. How many churches even have a midweek prayer meeting anymore? In those that do, most of it is music and Bible study rather than actual prayer. How much does the church emphasize prayer?  How much time do individual members spend praying away from church?

I believe most of our problems have to do with using business oriented growth programs and trying to do things ourselves our way rather than depending on the Lord.

Now that is something that I can also agree with.

A right prayer life is a major part of the life of not only a church but of the individuals themselves. Without a right prayer life there is little growth because there is not the relationship with Christ that we should have.

1Th 5:17  Pray without ceasing.

Perhaps instead of ceasing to pray for church growth there should have been additional prayers for proper discipleship for them?

I would like to add another thought to this. Prayer is of the utmost importance. Prayer for guidance as well as the other things already mentioned here. However prayer is not the only thing of importance. There is a term the Military uses, "TACAMO". It mean "Take Action And Move Out". It was originally designed for a reliable communications system in the event of nuclear warfare. Like many terms it eventually gained a dual meaning. It was used to indicate the need to not sit back and let others do everything for you. In this aspect we, as Christians, need to TACAMO. We do need to rely on God's guidance but we should not just sit back and expect Him or anyone else to do everything. He has given us all gifts of some sort or another for the purpose of doing His work. We need to implement those gifts, with His guidance, in order to do His work. When we run into problems we should not just give up and stop. We should give it to God in prayer and then TACAMO as He leads us, not just sit on our laurels warming a pew.

There is a large amount of sin in our world today. Many Christians will agree to this and are heard complaining about it. Yet they do nothing to attempt to change that. If they pray about it at all then that is all that they do, with drawing into the walls of their churches or homes, letting it continue on. There should be prayer without ceasing. There should also be action taken. Witnessing to the lost, being active in any other manner that we can, to at least attempt to make changes. In any war there are multiple fronts. A war cannot be fought and won just by fighting it on one front alone. It must be done on all fronts. It cannot be argued that we are in fact in a war. Not a war of this world only but a war between good and evil and there are many casualties heading to an eternity of pain and suffering, eternal death.

As a new poster to this forum, I have not yet got a feel for everything here but like what I have seen so far.  I am currently attending a church with approximately 250 in regular attendance.  The church has recently gone through a rift and lost members and was in turmoil for a while.  In contrast, I came from a church that was down to about 90 members on a good Sunday.  The problem was both churches have let those with the money and the large tithe check determine the direction of the church rather than allowing God to guide them.  The church I am at now hired a senior minister that has put a stop to politics and is fighting the clicks that inevitably form within a church membership.  It has been very refreshing to see a church that is not dependant on the financial aspects of everything and instead trusts that God will provide.   

That being said, I think that when a church is so driven by money and they start allowing those with the biggest wallet to start dictating how that money should be sent, then you are just asking to alienate members and make those that are not as well off to feel less important in the church.  This is a dangerous attitude for a church to have.  As for the megachurches, most merely preach a health, wealth and prosperity message and make people feel good about themselves.  I don't see how that can be a healthy message if you think that just because you are a Christian that your life will be a bed of roses and all things will be easy as long as you attend a certain church or adhere to the teachings of a man which I think is what a lot of megachurch members do. (Of course most of my experience with the megachurches is what I see on TV and read about).  Hopefully this made sense, it's kind of tough to write while at work and getting interruptions.

Hello and WELCOME!


Money is the root of much evil, so what you said makes perfect sense to me. I certainly don't think that the status of a church or a person going to that church should be based on money.

All people should feel most welcome to come and hear the Gospel of the Grace of GOD, regardless of whether they have money to put in the offering plate or even to buy shoes. What the LORD cares about is bringing people to HIM, Loving HIM, and serving HIM.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

Hello and welcome to Christians Unite forums.

This makes sense to me also. It is the downfall of many churches and has been for many years.

Welcome StrikeToWin in the name of Jesus the only name in heaven and earth
To Srike and WIN.Love in His name .Def

Hello StrikeToWin, welcome to Christians Unite forum.

Hello Strike to win..welcome to the forum..

The church is not declining for we are the church..each one who bears the name of Christ is part of the body..I was thinking today of Gideon..do you know he had too many for the Lord used few and the Lord is using few today in the power of His might..Buildings will fall..but the word of God that dwells in us stands true..We are not a group of passive people but people with zeal..and covered by the blood of Jesus that gives us authority we take for granted..Do not look at how big the church is..Look at how you stand before ther Lord and what you do to glorify Him..

I have been reading a couple of books lately that talk about the church, and the ministries of the church.  They have been some very eye opening books. 
1) 7 Practices of an Effective Ministry - Andy Stanley
This book was awesome.  Related in ways that also opened up some personal directives and ways to handle everyday life as well.  But original intent was looking at the church and the ministry(ies) of the church.  Highly recommended
2) Change your Church for Good: The Art of Sacred Cow Tipping - Brian Awehali
I am still starting in this one but so far it has been excellent as well.  Primary focus is on not getting locked into traditions.

Both of them talk about problems in the church today.  One with getting too many programs going and losing focus on the primary goal...to reach the outside world.  The core focus of the 7 practices is to ensure that your ministries have a purpose and that we should always focus on the most important thing...reaching the outside...the lost.  Too often we have events at church, special luncheons, dinners, carnivals, and things like that and they end up being geared towards treating the people who already attend church and we have done nothing to bring in the people who are lost.  It is great that those of us who are saved get to sit around a table and stuff food in our face while there is a person in the house right next to the church who is lost and going to hell. 

Cow Tipping talks about how churches get into ruts with their traditions.  One of the first examples was a church up North that got started when a bunch of Southerners moved up there around turn of the century (that is 1900 for you younger folks).  Well it grew and had good attendance and was a good church for about 40-50 years.   The Southerners all moved out and the area was replaced with Northern folks and a whole different atmosphere of people.  But yet the church still had banjo's and piano's in every classroom and stuck to it's roots, even though the rest of the tree had moved on.  Basically it had become "irrelevant" to the area it was in.  Now that was not to say the church was irrelevant, but face it, another 10-20 years and the church would have been gone and never grew.  And also face it, our goal in life here is to the church, fallen world or not we are to go out and try to grow the church, and one of the best ways for us to "tell" if we are doing our duty is to see if the churches are growing. 

One thing we, we being the Pastor and Deacons, are doing is sitting down and looking at our church and defining the ministries we have and evaluating what each one is doing or supposed to do.  Target the inside or the outside.  And if it is targeting the inside we are looking at if it should, and how can we get it to target the outside, or do we need to cut it.  And if we have one that is targeting the outside is it working, can we make it work, or do we need to cut it so we can focus on something that is working.  An example is that our church has a pre-school.  All but two of our staff members are current church members as well (the other two are regular church attenders, just not with us and that is OK).  But with an enrollment of almost 70 children do you realize how many of them come to our church?  ZERO.  Not one of them, and a vast majority of them are not going anywhere.  And this is and has  been a problem we have been trying to deal with.  One of the greatest outreach tools is at our disposal and we are missing the mark.  So we are sitting down and coming up with ways we can use that ministry to reach the lost that come to our doors every day, 5 days a week.

I love our little church of about 80 each week.  But God has really shown me over the past couple of months that it is not our lot in life to be satisfied and content with a church of 80, but we should want to see a church of 80,000, 800,000, or more.  It is irrelevant if God keeps our church at 80, we should want to see more, and we should be doing all we can to make it more.  If we do 100 baptisms a week and still maintain an average attendance of 80 each Sunday the so be it, but God gets the glory that 100 lost souls were saved each week.  (And no not simply because they were baptised.....not for that discussion here).

And that is the direction my little church is taking.  Are we going to take care of our people inside...you betcha...matter of fact we are having our big Shake it Up Sunday to kick it off.  Let me tell you how we are going to take care of our inside, we are going to feed them with a free meal...you want to know how that is going to help the outside?  Well here is what our Sunday night is going to look like.

5:30 - 6:00 pm - Training.  Outreach training.  going over how to win souls.
6:00 - 7:00 pm - Outreach.  Have 3 teams. Bronze - handing out fliers and things like that.  Silver - visiting with people who have come to visit the church, the sick and similar.  Gold - Cold calls.  Going door to door to talk about Jesus...not about the church that is what Silver is there for.
7:00 - 8:00 pm - Rally Time - Everyone meets back at the church for Rally Time.  We get together and have dinner and people tell stories about how their visitation went.  Where they went, who they saw, how did things go. 

We felt like we were going to take care of our people by giving them some good fellowship, food, and training on how to be an effective witness.  And we are doing it while we are primarily focusing on getting lost people saved and saved people into church.

I have rambled on too much. 

Not at all. In fact much more can and should be said about this very subject. You have brought up an excellent point and that is that the church is not just here to take care of those in the church but it is here to at least attempt to bring the lost to Christ, the main point of the church is just that to administer to the lost.

Just as an observation made by Dr. Richard Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention recently made:

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=20334.msg238331#msg238331

to many "churches" are getting away from preaching the Gospel, spreading this Good News, and are getting more into the things of the world. We do indeed need to get back to the main objective of "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature",  to preach Christ's gospel and not that of another.


Might I suggest that this time be spent discussing problem situations and possible solutions to any of those problems. Some are not willing to admit they had problems so it might take a leader to take a step out on this even if a solution had already been reached just to give an example and to encourage others to move forward. An example of what I am talking about here: One area of our church's out reach is an area that is dominated by gangs. A group of them confronted our out reach group. How best is it to handle such a situation? To start with stay in a group, never alone. Don't show fear but don't present yourselves as challenging them either. Show them a certain amount of respect, present the Gospel to them and remember that God is with you. It does work as we have had many of these young people from this area turn to the church.

Hello Brother Jerry,

Sadly, growth of a local assembly many times indicates they are catering to the world - NOT GOD. We are living in a day and age where we are seeing various large churches and associations of churches departing from the Gospel of the Grace of GOD to get large or stay large. I believe that we truly DO live in a time where people have itching ears and are unable or unwilling to endure sound doctrine. This is not true in all cases, but it's sadly true in many cases. Many people go where they will be entertained and hear what they want to hear, so we've actually seen many large churches and church organizations depart from the faith and teach worldly doctrines.

Sadly, size reduction is many times a more accurate measurement of doing the LORD'S Work in this day and age. Again, this is NOT always the case, but it's becoming more accurate by the day. People don't want to be convicted from GOD'S WORD of sin, nor do many people want to diligently study GOD'S WORD, so the local assembly obliges them. Here's where we get the "Feel good, health and wealth, and prosperity" so-called Gospel. Things become more and more humanist and worldly while GOD becomes less and less a priority. Eventually, many churches work GOD almost out of the picture and HE is replaced with entertainment and appeasing the world. We are told about times like these in Bible Prophecy, and it appears these things are taking place exactly as Bible Prophecy said they would. The examples are too numerous to mention and many of them involve abominations to GOD. They are popular because they are "man-pleasers" - NOT "GOD-pleasers".

SO, for this day and age, I would say that size and growth are very poor and inaccurate measurements of doing the LORD'S Work. In reality, many churches that remain pure to the LORD'S Work are getting smaller if they refuse to cater to worldly desires. I would rather hear GOD'S WORD and study it diligently even if it means the services are held under a tree. Large, gaudy, and obscenely expensive church buildings don't mean much to me. In fact, they usually cause me to have negative feelings and questions about what they are doing and why. We are also living in a day and time where many churches are run like worldly corporations - profit and growth first at any cost.

This is not a rant or intended for debate. If we are nearing the End of this Age of Grace, we will see much worse. What I described above will lead right into world religion that will make many men happy, but NOT GOD. It will happen and it might be happening now. It's just a matter of GOD'S Appointed Time. Bible Prophecy will be fulfilled most perfectly, and this discussion is part of Bible Prophecy. I'd like to point out a couple of facts: 

1) If your local church assembly is fairly small and not growing, it might very well mean that it is remaining true to the LORD'S Work.

2) If your once larger local church assembly is reducing in size, it might mean the same thing.

3) Those who remain true to the LORD'S Work will be attacked by the world and the devil.

4) The REAL CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST doesn't cater to the world and never will. This ONE REAL CHURCH has faced persecution for most of history. The persecution is growing worse and it will grow much worse in the End Days of this Age of Grace. Making GOD Happy is the priority of THIS ONE BODY. Being popular with the world and making man happy is not on the priority list.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

PR -
Your suggestion would be something that would be handled during the training portion before going out.  Yes it could be discussed afterwards as well and the Rally Time is more of an open forum.  And we encourage both positive and negative stories or comments.  But we want it to be a time that builds excitement about what we just did.

BEP -
I agree completely.  And at times it is difficult to discern some meanings.  When I speak of growing the church it is the body of Christ that I refer too.  Often time we mentally equate one with the other, and often errantly.  And I figured the explanation of the wanting a church of 80,000 or however much as the vision is pretty much that.  We should never be satisfied with size of the church (body of Christ), or even the church we attend.  Because as we pray that our local church grows, we pray that it grows with good Godly people that are excited about spreading the Gospel and doing what they can to reach more souls for Christ.  And we pray that we continue to stay focused on just what it is that God wants us to do. 

You have said that it is common today that big mega churches lose the vision of God, and fall more to the world.  Well I have seen mega churches out there that have not and for God goes the glory that they have remained focused and we should all be praying that we can achieve the same things those larger church organizations are doing. 

Yes there are places in life for small churches, I believe that God has a plan for each and every church.  But God has given each and every church a plan and that is to go out and spread the word.  If we are following the will of God then we will be out soul winning.  And if we are out soul winning then quite often that won soul will be in our local church.  Thus it will grow.  If God then wants a small church to be in that area He will inspire a pastor to start another church in that area and continue to feed the larger one.  As long as the focus is on Him. 

We do not know the plan that God has for us.  We do know what He has asked of us, and logic would dictate that if we are doing that then our church would grow.  Our goal is not to see a huge church, our goal is to see The Church (body of Christ) grow, and count it a blessing if God blesses our local church with growth because of it.  Is like I said if my little local church always stays at an average attendance of 80 but 100 lives a week are saved then so be it, God's will prevail.

Brothers and Sisters,

Regardless of your local assembly, GOD'S Appointed Time for Bible Prophecy to be fulfilled will come, and it may be here or near. Nothing will be able to slow or stop it.

Love In Christ,
Tom

   

Amen. 

Jesus is preparing a place for us now.  Until then we are to be about His business until He comes to get us.

Here is some viewing that is well worth it.
Let me tell you a little about it.  The man speaking is Rick Burgess.  He is from the show Rick and Bubba which is a nationally syndicated morning radio show. 
His 2 year old son had drowned in the pool the week prior to this.  This is some powerful stuff that can be a some real awakening and stirring of some sitting on the fence souls.

It is in 3 parts.  But they are all there.

Why Churches are Declining in America?
It's Prophecy, The falling away is happening & from sound Doctrine... :o
Preachers today have made the word of God Eviley spoken of & they have broaden the hems of their Garments
at the Children of Gods Expense. OUR/Their eyes are opening to the fact that we/they are being MISLED & used.
And they(the Lost) have been watching them(Preachers) and they want no part of it And you can't blame them for not wanting to Listen to someone they think only wants their Money...
By professing to be so wise,they have blinded themselves and have became self-righteous fools that leadeth many to their Own Destruction...
YLBD

Hello Littleboy,

The decline or departure is much worse already in many parts of the world. I firmly believe that the End Days of this Age of Grace are near.

By the way, I also know there are still local assemblies faithfully giving out the GOSPEL of GOD'S GRACE. One might have to look for them, but they are still here.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

When churches use carnal methods in the church, it will decline because there is no authentic gospel.  Churches are watering down the gospel to please man in order to have large numbers and even though there is plenty of uplifting and humanistic message and humanistic deeds..the Spirit is not in control..Even if we do all we can to conjur up how to offer all we can to make the church grow, the Lord said..Not by might not by power but by My Spirit says the Lord..There is still time to preach the gospel as it is intended by God and is a command by God..We cannot just sit and call it prophecy when so many are dying by the droves..There is so much God has given us to do on this earth that the only time we will stop is when He calls us home..

Hello Maryjane,

I wouldn't even hint that Christians should slow down, give up, or lay down - JUST THE OPPOSITE! I simply suggest that we look at the Holy Bible and understand what's going on in this lost and dying world. This understanding should encourage us to do MORE for the LORD - NOT LESS!

For the lost in the world, Bible Prophecy will be the realization of Eternal damnation and absolute HORROR! Great hosts will finally know that HE is GOD and it's too late!

For Christians, Bible Prophecy will mean the fulfillment of GOD'S Promises to THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. These Promises are Eternal and beautiful beyond the imagination of mankind.

For Israel, Bible Prophecy will mean their greatest trials in history, great loss, but then final realization that JESUS CHRIST is and always was the MESSIAH - their Anointed KING. Israel will be restored, and CHRIST will take HIS rightful Throne - the Throne of David in Jerusalem. JESUS CHRIST will subject all things under HIS Feet and all will know that HE is GOD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

Hi Everyone,
We should never give up or slow down on our fight,
However one must be careful not to Bump heads with God during our battles,
God says how it's going to be & God says 100's of Millions will die from Hunger, Disease, War, Ect. ect. ect.
ARE you/we going to try and make God a LIAR
by saying That WE can and/or SHOULD try and change these Problems? THAT GOD HAS CREATED FOR "HIS OWN" PURPOSE..
YES, MY HEART cries for these people & I do Pray & help ANYONE that i come in contact with.
I've been known to give my last Dollar, God knows who the cheerful givers are.
And remember when you have done it unto the least of Gods Children you have done it unto him...
Sometimes it's with kindness that i can help someone out of the pit, Sometimes it's with the fear of the Wrath & Judgment of MY/OUR Father that is Coming...

The lord says That the Love & charity that we christians show towards each other, would make the Lost want to be one of us
and take part in the joy that they could see within us...Something went wrong along the way.(Prophecy)

When my Brother came the 1st time, He was meek & lowly in Heart with a Crown of Thorns upon his head and he came riding in on the colt of an ass.
When he comes this time He will be on A White Horse and he will be Full of Power & Glory and upon his head wil be a Crown of Glory & Honor And with millions of Soldiers He/We will Ride...

People have 2 choices in this world, Cleave too Or Reject the word(JESUS) of God,
All that a person is or will become, DEPENDS on THEIR Answer!
Like they say, IF you don't have an Answer on this, You've allready Made your Choice...
People not going to Church Does'nt bother me as much as ALL the people Rejecting Gods words
as sound Doctrine and SEEKing HIM on their own so not to be lead astray by Crafty People only looking for Gain...
It bothers me alot to watch a Chucklehead Lead a Knucklehead to hell!
But like i've said before can you really Blame Lost people for NOT wanting to be taken Advantage of AT CHURCH
The World has taken to much Advantage of them for them to just start following something else that wants what little means that they may have left in life...
YLBD
What I have I give Freely, Just as Commanded of Us, WE that have given Many Years of our lives
to Labor in Gods words, to be able to give truth in these times of Minipulation & Greed & Lies.
WE that have been given Much, MUCH will Be required of Us on that day!
Peace & Godspeed be with all my Brothers & Sisters here....

Hello Littleboy,

I understand what you're saying, but this isn't something that Christians need to worry about. GOD'S Instructions to us haven't changed, and this is the good part that limits potential confusion. If we continue to follow instructions already given to us and pray, there is no way we can butt heads with GOD. It would be impossible for us to make GOD a liar, and it would be impossible for us to change even the smallest event that is GOD'S Will. GOD can't lie, and any event within HIS Purposes for Bible Prophecy WILL happen PERFECTLY in HIS Perfect Time and HIS Perfect Way.

All Christians have to worry about is continuing to obey GOD'S Instructions already given to us, pray, and pray some more. If we do this, we will be within HIS Will. As an example, we don't have to worry about whether GOD wants us to feed someone. If GOD doesn't want them fed, they won't get the food, regardless of what we do or don't do. Our giving in Christian love will be counted as good, regardless of whether GOD allows the intended recipient to receive it or not. GOD will be in complete control of carrying out HIS Will and Purpose. We simply need to remember that GOD'S Instructions to us have NOT changed. As another example that will help us, Christians should know that we can't stop EVIL, but that doesn't hint that we should lay down before EVIL without resistance. We have our part and it involves instructions already given to us. All Christians should know that ONLY GOD can defeat EVIL, but this does NOT imply that our duties and instructions have changed. We are to do our part and know that GOD Will Perfectly carry out HIS Promises at HIS Appointed time. We won't win our battles against evil, but GOD WILL!

Brother, I didn't say any of this for the purpose of argument. I know that many Christians are thinking about and praying about these issues right now. None of us want to do anything that is against the Will of GOD, and we won't if we continue to follow GOD'S Instructions already given to us. All we need to do is continue to march with HIS Instructions, pray, pray some more, and know that GOD will handle the rest according to HIS Perfect Will and Timing. GOD'S Course for us hasn't changed since the time of the Apostle Paul. We still need to run a good race, fight a good fight, and finish our course. If GOD wants us to do something differently, HE will let us know. Here, we have the importance of prayer and more prayer. I seriously doubt that we will ever feel led to withhold food from the hungry or clothing from the naked. On the other side of the coin, the needy won't get the food and clothing if GOD doesn't want them to have it. This is the Power of GOD'S Will, and it WILL be DONE Perfectly.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Not every Christian has the same calling(Job),
and that changes the equasion.
Man is measured by his Faith & his Gifts(Ability's) are determed
by the amount he has been measured by God.


 "On the other side of the coin, the needy won't get the food and clothing if GOD doesn't want them to have it. This is the Power of GOD'S Will, and it WILL be DONE Perfectly."

This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say...
Now, just think if your Giving to people, God Don't want you too?

Hello Littleboy,

Brother, we must be thinking about different things. All of the inhabitants of earth together won't be able to change the most tiny event within the Will and Purpose of ALMIGHTY GOD for the End Days of this Age of Grace. Bluntly, what GOD wants done WILL be DONE! No power in the universe will be able to stop, slow, or hasten the unfolding of Bible Prophecy. HIS Will be DONE - HIS Way - HIS Time - and it WILL Be! Well-intentioned Christians won't be able to change a single thing OUTSIDE of the WILL and PURPOSE of GOD, and we should all already know this. What ALMIGHTY GOD wants to happen WILL HAPPEN. In the meantime, GOD'S Instructions to Christians haven't changed. We can only attempt to do our part as Christians, and GOD will still be working in and through us. GOD WON'T JUST ATTEMPT - HE WILL ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE WANTS DONE!

I think where i got mixed up is, I did'nt make it clear that BEFORE I give,
I make sure their NOT using the money for Alchol or Drugs or any other
UNGodley purpose or you can become a partaker in their sins.
Jesus says that we are to be Charitable & Giving to one another,
And that by this Many UNgodley would turn to God BY Seeing the Love
that we have for one another...

I try to be careful NOT to cast what i have to the Swine, NOT Money or HIS Words,
Or to Preachers that want money for Stained glass windows, Airplanes or any other such nonsence.
The Poor that Call upon the Name of the Lord can have the shirt off my back, But to someone who refuses
or rejects the word of God & the Gospel of OUR Lord, "CAN GO WHERE HE'S GOING TO SEND THEM"
and i wont waste my time or money on Someone like that,
Thats all I'm really saying Brother.

Well, like Buying stuff from CHINA, You & Me are helping arm one of Biggest Nations of the Kings of the East
that will take it's part in crossing the river Euphrates to do harm unto Irsrael!
ARE WE Truely Innocent of such things? (i hope so, MY house is Full of stuff from there)

Buying fuel IS Arming the Iranians & others who seek the Destruction of Israel & Christians.
THINK about that?
ARMING THE VERY PEOPLE WHO SEEK "OUR" DESTRUCTION & them of
Israel too.
THAT alone is INSANE!
OR am I the Crazy one Here?

You are a good Brother to me thank you Tom .
YLBD

Hello Littleboy,

I understand completely now. We're on the same sheet of music.

I don't have very much money, and I think that many Christians are in the same boat. We do need to make reasonable efforts to make sure that our gifts and offerings are being used in an appropriate manner. The examples would be endless, but I immediately think about con men setting up fronts to take money intended for Hurricane Katrina victims. Crime did pay and the heart-felt gifts of many were taken.

There are many watch-dog type agencies these days that grade how well charities and ministries use the offerings that they are given. It's surprising how much money is wasted, and this is just one more way that we can use to give wisely. It's also a surprise to find out how many charities and ministries refuse to give their financial information. One would assume pretty quickly that they have something to hide, and they do.

In short, there are all kinds of real needs these days. I give thanks that there are many common sense things that Christians can do to cut out the con men and the organizations that waste or inappropriately use gifts. If we look, there are many worthy organizations, many doing wonderful work and being transparent with their records of how they use resources.

Brother, I'll also echo what you said and say that I'm happy you're my Brother in CHRIST. Things are increasingly difficult for Christians these days, so it's important that we encourage each other, strengthen each other in CHRIST, and have fellowship with each other. This is part of GOD'S plans for us. One of the best things we can do for each other is PRAYER, and we know that GOD loves to hear our Prayers.

We joyously and anxiously await the Glorious Appearance of our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. In the meantime, we can:


Love In Christ,
Tom