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I accept that the new covenant is a wonderful gift to mankind but i dont quite get this ransom thing.
Christs death pays the price for our sins , yes ok , ; christs attoning blood washes away our sins if we accept it, yes , very nice.
I love Christ with all my heart for doing what he did and i accept his attoning blood and want to do good in his name, yes yes yes;
but why did it have to involve his death?
Couldnt he just invoke a new covenant without having to suffer this humiliation.

My only way of answering this question is to involve Satan ; somethig like : Satan would only allow God to change the rules if he got something in return, like the chance to humiliate his son.
But ive never heard another christian put it that way.

Please put me out of this confusion.

  thanks Chris.

When sin came into the world it brought death to mankind. Not only did Christ die and shed His blood to wash away our sins He had to over come death also, the wages of sin, in our place so that we may have eternal life through Him.

AMEN!

I've heard this put many ways, and I've had many Bible Studies on this topic. Books have been written about this topic, but I just want to share a few thoughts. Bear with me for a moment and see if this makes sense.

To have a "Testament", you have to have a "Testator" and a death that involves an inheritance. For the Old Testament, we have Adam and an inheritance of the "curse of sin and death". Then the Law came and no man was ever able to keep the Law. In fact, no man has ever been able to totally please GOD. GOD hates disobedience and the filthiness of sin and evil. Burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin didn't please GOD, and the stench of sin was still on men.

For the New Testament, we have JESUS CHRIST offering HIMSELF as a perfect and Eternal Sacrifice for sin for those who believe and accept HIM as LORD and SAVIOUR. The inheritance for those belonging to CHRIST is rescue from the curse of sin and death and Eternity with JESUS CHRIST in Heaven. However, this is just the beginning. Believers are seen in and through JESUS CHRIST, so GOD is pleased, and the stench of sin is washed away with the perfect Righteousness of JESUS CHRIST. JESUS CHRIST was the only Perfect and Holy Sacrifice, so Only JESUS CHRIST could finish the work of Salvation on the CROSS!

Now, let's back up and talk about something really simple. Why did GOD Create human beings? It was to Glorify HIMSELF, but he gave man choice to do right and wrong. GOD didn't fail - man failed. Man didn't Glorify GOD, but JESUS CHRIST did! JESUS CHRIST fulfilled the Law perfectly and provided a WAY for mankind to be rescued from the curse of sin and death. Our original purpose is now fulfilled by GOD working in and through those who belong to HIM, and our Righteousness is the Righteousness of CHRIST! The stench of our sin has been washed away by the Precious Blood of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS, and HE makes us acceptable for the Inheritance with the Saints in LIGHT. That LIGHT is JESUS CHRIST! We Love HIM because HE first Loved Us. HE showed us the ultimate Love by dying on the CROSS in our place and taking our punishment in HIS Own Body. The inheritance involves MUCH more than just Salvation, and ONLY JESUS CHRIST could fulfill GOD'S Plan for us.

I hope that I explained this in a way that makes sense. If not, read the portions of Scripture below and use them to Study other portions of Scripture. There was a time when men needed a Levitical Priest to petition GOD on their behalf, but Christians today have access to the THRONE OF GRACE always, and THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD lives in our hearts. There was a time when approaching the HOLY OF HOLIES meant immediate death, but GOD has made each Christian of today a living temple for HIS use. JESUS CHRIST accomplished all of this and much more on the CROSS. WHY? - It Pleased GOD, and we can now Please GOD through JESUS CHRIST, our LORD and SAVIOUR!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 7:18-19 NASB
For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

Hebrews 10:19-25 NASB
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;  and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Romans 5:1-2 NASB
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Titus 2:11-14 NASB
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Titus 3:4-7 NASB
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Galatians 5:4-6 NASB
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Ephesians 1:11-14 NASB
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Romans 5:3-5 NASB
And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NASB
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 NASB
But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Satan doesn't allow God to do anything since God doesn't need his permission to do anything. Satan is a created being, and like all other created beings is subservient to God's will. He can't do anything without God allowing it.

An excellent and truthful point.

Thanks to Pastor Roger and Blackeyedpeas for your replies which i have thought about.
I am getting nearer to understanding this but it does seem to be strangely complicated.

Im interested by the comparison of burnt offerings and Christs supreme offering and i will have to sleep on that idea.

I find that many of the explanations which i hear regarding the christian subject sound very good and seem to fit nicely,
but im always looking for convincing "one-liners", because when trying to spread the word thats all you get a chance to use.
 
thanks again , chris.

I wasnt suggesing that God had to get permission from Satan to change the rules but rather that he wants to play the game fair.
Of course he could tell satan to get stuffed and lock him up in hell whenever he wants to, but he wants to allow the "Good v Evil" thing to play out
to prove conclusively that Good is the only way.
God realised that according to the previous covenant nobody would be saved (ever) ,so he sad down with Satan and said "if you let me change the rules i will allow you your wish".
Satan perhaps thought it was a good gamble to try and get Gods son on his side; of couse we know that he failed to get Christ to worship him.
He did however get enormous pleasure from killing Christs body on the cross.

I agree Satan cant do anything without God allowing it, and im suggesting that God did allow it,to be fair (and God is 100% good and 100% fair).

My suggestion in the original post was only an "off the cuff" suggesion and i didnt carefully choose my words.
When ive fully chewed over this subject i hope to formulate a better "one liner" which is more convincing.

thanks for the interest
  cheers Chris.

God didn't change any rules. Jesus dying on the cross was already planned.

Also God didn't say satan could do anything for God to change things, He just allowed satan to do it. Everything went according to GOD"S AWESOME WONDERFUL PERFECT PLAN!  :)

Yes, you do need to work on your wording some more because this looks like you are saying that God had to make a deal with Satan. God is much smarter than that. He wouldn't have given any ifs this or ifs that. Just like God did when Satan tried to tempt Him in the wilderness He says this is the deal, take it or leave it.

And a really BIG AMEN to what David said. God's plan has been in effect from the beginning. The Ten Commandments and all the rest of the laws was not a plan that He had to "change is mind on". It was a part of His plan to prove to mankind that they are not able to obtain righteousness on their own and therefore do need to accept Christ as their Saviour for only Jesus Christ is righteous and it is righteousness none of our own that provides Salvation for mankind.

You want one-liners yet in God's own words it takes more than mere one-liners.

Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Salvation, salvation from death under the law by God's perfect grace.

Rom 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 2:4  Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Rom 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 4:21  And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Rom 4:24  But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Rom 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

AMEN BROTHER DAVID!

You just spoke volumes and really covered it all in one of the best ways that I've ever heard. There are only THREE Eternal Beings with NO beginning WHO were NOT CREATED by ALMIGHTY GOD, and those THREE Eternal Beings are ONE:  GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT. ALMIGHTY GOD does as HE Pleases in Heaven and on earth. HE has Unlimited and Unspeakable POWER to CREATE OR DO whatever HE Wishes. HE could have made all of us like robots to obey HIM and love HIM, but that is not HIS Way and that wouldn't please HIM. HE wants us to choose to obey and love HIM because we want to.

NO portion of ALMIGHTY GOD'S CREATION totally understands HIS WAYS. For now, HE has told us what HE wants us to know in HIS WORD, and we can find out much more through prayer and our personal relationship with HIM. HE will reveal more to us at HIS Appointed time, but all would have to agree that HIS WORD is an amazing Revelation from an ALL POWERFUL and LOVING GOD and CREATOR. HE didn't have to give us the Bible, but HE did and that is part of HIS WAYS. HE gave us MUCH MORE than enough to make choices between good and evil.

Everything in HIS CREATED Universe does revolve around one powerful sentence that you have stated, "Everything went according to GOD"S AWESOME WONDERFUL PERFECT PLAN!" - This will be true for Eternity - GOD'S Will be done! - and it Will BE!

Love In Christ,
Tom

   

My current understanding is that God did change the rules :  Prior to Christs time we had to obey the 10C to be saved ; then after Christs death we could be saved through repentance,forgiveness,faith in Christ,accepting his gift etc.

WRT "Gods awesome wonderful plan" i do wonder exactly which part of bible history you are refering to.
What i see is an initial wonderful plan (gods creation in Eden) going horribly wrong and then a series of coping strategies.
I hope you arent suggesting that Satan and all the suffering he has bought to the world is part of this plan.

regards Chris.

Replying to Pastor Rogers Reply 9 ;

Yes i do want one-liners because ,as i said before, thats often all you get a chance to use.
Non Christians really dont want to be preached to, so you have to get your point across quickly and
consisely ; with any luck they will come back later for more or for an arguement(discussion !).
Thanks for the ones you quoted , some of my favourites.

cheers Chris.

Chris,

We must never forget that ALMIGHTY GOD knew all before the foundation of the world, and that includes HIM numbering the hairs on your head. HIS Power and infinite knowledge of all things for Eternity Past is very hard for us to think about and understand. HE knew even the most tiny details in Eternity past, including the precise time that each sparrow would fall from the sky.

SO, there is NO failure on GOD'S Part, and there isn't anything HE didn't already know millions of years ago. GOD doesn't make any mistakes. To bring this back to something we can grasp more easily, GOD knew exactly what Adam and Eve would do in eternity past. GOD intended to give mankind choice, and HE knew exactly what mankind would do with it. HE already knows how you will reply to this message. There is nothing hidden from GOD from Eternity past. I know this is hard to grasp, but there is no other way I know of to explain this. CHRIST knew that HE had an appointment at the CROSS before man was ever created. GOD knew all about satan before satan was created!

Saying that everything has and will occur according to GOD'S Plan is completely correct. HE obviously has the power to do as HE pleases in Heaven and on earth. HE could have created mankind as believers and obedient, but GOD wanted man to choose. GOD would NOT receive any Glory from robots. GOD wants love and obedience as a matter of choice. Going back to these basics about GOD makes many other things easier to understand. Here's a few ABSOLUTE basics to get started:

PERFECT
HOLY
CAN'T LIE
KNOWS ALL AND SEES ALL
CREATED ALL
INFINITE ALL POWERFUL
NO BEGINNING AND NO ENDING

Many of the answers about why GOD does certain things are answered in the Holy Bible, but the Bible really represents the minimum of what HE wants us to know. HE has Eternity to teach us and tell us the rest of what HE wants us to know. The CROSS was HIS biggest act of love toward us. NO greater love can be shown. So, we love HIM because HE first loved us! HIS patience and many other things are also evidence of HIS great love for us. HE is the ALMIGHTY GOD, and HE doesn't have to put up with a single act of rejection or disobedience. If you put these things together and think about them, you'll get back to that PERFECT PLAN again.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hello Again Chris,

People won't accept one-liners for the same reasons why you didn't. You wind up spending as much or more time trying to explain the one-liners. If one-liners were appropriate and sufficient, GOD would have already given them to us.

The Holy Bible is very small for something so important, but it contains many answers that people want to know in making decisions. It answers your questions, but not with one sentence. However, I'll give you one sentence to see how you will react to it:

I AM the ONE GOD you will believe, accept, love, and obey - OR you will spend eternity in fire!

Here's a few more from God's word to show you that God's plan has not changed but rather that it has only been man's understanding that has changed.

Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:21  Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom 4:13  For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Heb 11:1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2  For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3  Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb 11:4  By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5  By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8  By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9  By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10  For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11  Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12  Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14  For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15  And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16  But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17  By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18  Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19  Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20  By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21  By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22  By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23  By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24  By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25  Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26  Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27  By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28  Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29  By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30  By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31  By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32  And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33  Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34  Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35  Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36  And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37  They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38  (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.



Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It is faith that saved those of old as it does now, for no man has been justified by the works of the law.

Amen Brothers! You guys said it best.  :)

I am so thankful for the mercy of God knowing what we are and still loving us to send His Son to die for our sin and to rise again to prove every word true. Knowing this dispells pride in all of us..No matter how much religion and rituals we bring into the church to try to be more spiritual than the next religion still does not even touch what Jesus Christ alonr has done for us by just loving us to die that we can be free from sin.  My mind cannot even comprehend the love of God to me nor His mercy that He bestows on this world.  From  the sin Adam and Eve brought, God in His great mercy and love gave us a way back to th Father and it is only through Jesus th Precious Lamb of God.

Well i do accept one liners ..for what the are..an entry point into a more complete discussion ; i want to end spending time explaining the one-liner,because then i have caught my monkey!
We have different ways of trying to bring people to Christ and i dont have the depth of knowledge or social skills to get straight into in-depth discussions with people "in the street".
Once i have "caught my monkey" i often have to refer them on to an expert for "futher processing" .

This discussion was supposed to be about Christ dying, and it seems to have sidetracked too much for my likeing.
I would like to wrap it up with my findings and start new threads on the new questions which have arissen.
 
thanks for your help so far,
  chris.

Answering the last bit of reply 14 by blackeyedpeas,

Sorry i forgot that bit ; i will answer your one-liner (ha,ha),as best i can.

"I am the one God"...yes i know you are
"you will believe"...yes i do
"accept"...i accept and embrace you
"love"...you know i do,and you know i know what that means
"and obey"...yes i know im a bit weak here,but you know i mean well.
"or you will spend eternity in fire"...something worse than fire i suspect.

This would be a good new discussion with "one line answers" only allowed

cheers Chris.

In answer to Reply 13 by Blackeyedpeas,
 
Thanks for your well written post, but i find the overall point unacceptable.
I dont want to say much here because i will start a new discussion on the subject soon.
This is a bigger questiion to me than my original post.
 
cheers for now, Chris.

In reply to Pastor Rogers reply 15,

This discussion has sidetracked too much for my likeing so i will start a new discussion on this subject ,along with others which have arrissen.
 
cheers for now , Chris.

So we could go home
Love in Jesus Def

Actually this thread has stayed very much on topic. All the posts have been on the same subject.



Unfortunately for you, you do not make the rules for threads on this forum. As has already been said, it requires much more than just one liners in order to answer a question without leaving doubt in peoples minds or self interpretations of a persons meanings on a subject. Just so that there is no doubt in your mind as to my meaning, if it requires a whole page to explain something in God's word then I will do so because I will not compromise in the least bit on God's word.

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

In thought of one liners...I well remember daily the one liner..WE WILL STAND BEFORE GOD AND GIVE ACCOUNT...

I'd love to add one more example from the Way of the Master, about how to explain in easy terms why Christ died:

"If you stand before a judge, an there's a $50,000 fine against you and the judge says, "Do you have anything to say?" and you say "Judge, I won't commit the crime again, I won't do it again, I'm really sorry."

He won't let you go, just cause you're sorry, cause you won't do it again. Of course you're sorry, you've broken the law. and of course you shouldn't do it again. He will not let you go on the basis of being sorry and not doing it again.

BUT if someone pays your fine, then the judge can let you go. Justice has been done.

And God will not forgive you just cause you're sorry. Of course you should be sorry if you commit adultery, if you watch filthey movies, your conscience will condemn you. If you lie, or steal, or lust you know in your heart you're doing wrong , and of course you sholdn't do it again. God will not forgive you just on the basis that you're repentant or that you're contrite. BUT if someone paid your fine, THEN God will forgive you on the basis that someone paid your fine.

2000 years ago. Jesus Christ paid the fine for the sins of the world. The Bible says He was bruised for our iniquities. God made Him who knew no sin to be a sin-offering for us.

Jesus took the punishment. John the Baptist said of Jesus 'Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.' A substitutionary death. He paid our fine. He rose from the dead and defeated death.

And if you'll repent AND trust in Him, God will forgive your sins and grant you everlasting life on the basis THAT JESUS TOOK YOUR PUNISHMENT. On the basis that He paid your fine. That's why He died, and that's what His death accomplished.

Jesus did not "have to die" He did it willingly out of love..

AMEN SISTERS!

Everything changed at the CROSS! The CROSS was and is the biggest and most precious event in history. GOD was never pleased with burnt offerings and other temporary sacrifices for sin. They didn't glorify GOD, mainly because the sacrifices were inadequate.

As a stark contrast, the Sacrifice of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS was perfect and HOLY. There are many stark contrasts at the CROSS, and the all boil down to a love GOD has for us that can't be equaled. There is no greater love. The JUST died for the unjust. The HOLY took punishment that was due the unholy. The INNOCENT paid for the guilty. In short, CHRIST was the only Perfect and Holy Sacrifice. HE became our Righteousness because we don't have any Righteousness. HE also stands as COMPLETELY WORTHY for the UNWORTHY. HIS Children are seen in and through HIM, and they have been rescued from the curse of sin and death forever!

HALLELUJAH!!

Until the time of our Lord, the preist perversed the word of God & Man once again had no hope of Salvation
and the wall was once again between man & God...
He died because he desired to do his Fathers Will, Gods will for him to die Was for us, Because he Loves us...
Remember he(Jesus) asked him to take this cup from him & then repented & said your will be done?
He had a moment where he was affraid & Cried in Agony & did'nt want to die, Angels were sent to strengthen him.
He was Sacrificed for you & me, The same as the lambs were sacrificed for the sins of the people in the olden days.
He was the FINAL Sacrifice given unto man that is needed to enter the Kingdom of God....
YLBD
The shorter version: Because he loves us...

AMEN LITTLEBOY!

I know that the devil suffered a crushing blow at the CROSS. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF is now the Mediator and Advocate for the children of THE KING OF KINGS. The HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD is in our hearts and Sealed it as a possession of GOD. No power can break this HOLY SEAL. It is also a Pledge of the PROMISES OF GOD.

That isn't 100% correct.
He said "if possible, let this cup be passed but let your will be done, not mine."
Also Jesus never repented.

Amen, brother. To say that Jesus repented is to say that He had sinned. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice therefore was without sin.

Amen Brother David!

This is a beautiful thread. This could be a very lengthy study guided by JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF and the Apostle Paul. It's really about what changed at the CROSS and why the CROSS was the most precious event in history.  In fact, the CROSS is a focal point for us to understand all of the most important things we need to know. The CROSS is the most logical dividing point for history. There are events leading up to the CROSS, and there are events caused by the CROSS. The devil and all evil hate the CROSS because IT IS the ONLY WAY to break the curse of sin and death. The devil had a great victory with Adam. The devil suffered a great defeat with JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 5:12-14 NASB
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned -- for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

2 Timothy 1:7-12 NASB
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline. Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher. For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.

Romans 5:17-18 NASB
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.  So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Romans 6:10-14 NASB
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 8:1-2 NASB
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

What i meant by repenting was that,
Instead of sticking to his 1st comment as he was crying in agony, If possible take this cup from me,However your will be done..
Which means he did'nt want to suffer what was about to happen to him
and if it was possible find another way, 3 times he did this, Asking God to find another way...
I did'nt mean to imply that the Lord Sinned and had to repent for it....
Just the mind set of his thinking between don't let this happen to me & your will be done...
Maybe repent was the wrong word, However he knows what i meant....
Remember in the end the sins of the world fell upon him & he had his moment of Doubt When he ask God "Why have you forsaken me".
God could'nt even look upon his own son who sin had come upon...
"Why did Jesus have to die?"= For the Sprinkling of his Blood!

Hello Littleboy,

I thought that I knew what you meant. As an example, it is completely correct to say that GOD never repents of a Promise that HE makes. There are several quite appropriate ways that the word "repent" is used in English translations of the Holy Bible. It does indicate "to take back" in many portions of Scripture, especially those that deal with the Promises of GOD. This is an example of why we still need the original Hebrew and Greek. GOD obviously has nothing to be sorry for, and GOD is HOLY, SPOTLESS, AND PERFECT. Brother, I give thanks that GOD is ever faithful and will keep all of HIS Promises perfectly. It's a beautiful thing to study GOD'S Promises to us. They should cause us to fall on our face and cry out with our THANKS! GOD is worthy of our Worship and Praise. ALL Glory goes to HIM!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:11-14 NASB
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.