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Title: Clueless on Founding Post by: Soldier4Christ on December 08, 2007, 07:03:11 PM Clueless on Founding
It’s not too often that Rush Limbaugh delves into the depths of church and state that I regularly dwell in, but he did yesterday while discussing Sally Quinn’s absurd comments on Romney’s speech. While I am definitely not supporting Romney’s candidacy, I agree with his statement here: Quote ROMNEY: In John Adams’ words: ‘We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion… Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people. Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.’ RUSH: Now, that passage he’s quoting John Adams. Listen to Sally Quinn on the Charlie Rose Show last night when asked about this passage. QUINN: I was absolutely stunned by how exclusive it was. I expected him to be much more inclusive. The line that I was just absolutely shocked by was when he said, “freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom.” And then went on to say, “freedom and religion endure together or perish alone.” And that sounded to me like he was basically recommending a theocracy, and it sounded as though he was excluding anybody who might be a doubter, an agnostic, an atheist – So, Sally, since you don’t know who John Adams is, I realize it’s too much to expect you know what a theocracy is. Quote Theocracy is a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler. All bias aside, which type of religion does that sound like to you? If you said Islam, you’d be correct! America has a document called the Constitution that governs us. Well, most of us. Liberals think they are exempt if they don’t like what it says. They think it’s a living, breathing document. And it’s becoming increasingly obvious that there isn’t much in there that liberals like because most of it is based on the ‘Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom,’ notion. Liberalism cannot co-exist with faith. Liberals, in order to function, must have the people place their faith in them, not a Higher Power. This way, liberals can control them. Which is the ultimate goal of liberalism: power. Why do you think it’s liberals that are always devising new government programs to “help” people. From education to health care. They want to have an arm in every aspect of our lives. This translates to control which means power. For liberals to accept Adams’ words, they would have to accept something higher than man, thus forfeiting control. Rush: Quote The founding of liberalism is based on moral relativism. The main threat to that view, is the originalist view of our nation and the Constitution. So the founding and the original intent of the Constitution are considered threats to liberalism, by liberals, and they have to be dealt with. Which is why liberals are using the courts and educational institutions to advance their regime. Barry Lynn is equally, but typically clueless: Quote “I was particularly outraged that Romney thinks that the Constitution is somehow based on faith and that judges should rule accordingly,” Lynn said. “That’s a gross misunderstanding of the framework of our constitutional system.” “I think it is telling that Romney quoted John Adams instead of Thomas Jefferson or James Madison,” Lynn continued. “Jefferson and Madison are the towering figures who gave us religious liberty and church-state separation.” Yeah, I mean, judges are supposed to create law, right? Breathingism 101, people. He quoted Adams because he was a FOUNDER. There were more than two of them, Mr. Lynn. There were 56 signers and over 100 that are commonly called Founders. All you ever quote is Jefferson and Madison. And to do that, you have to take Jefferson out of context and make half of Madison’s life appear to represent his entire career. But, I’ll tie one hand behind my back to make it easy for you and give you the benefit of the doubt. At best, you have two dissenters vs 100+ others who saw religion as necessary for freedom and vice versa. They knew it had to play a central role without the government having the power to force it on people. Quote “Very little of Madison’s proposed religious wording made it into the final version of the First Amendment; and even a cursory examination of the Annals of Congress surrounding the formation of that Amendment quickly reveals the influence of Fisher Ames and Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, John Vining of Delaware, Daniel Carroll and Charles Carroll of Maryland, Benjamin Huntington, Roger Sherman, and Oliver Ellsworth of Connecticut, William Paterson of New Jersey, and others on that Amendment.” “By utilizing Jefferson and Madison as the principal spokesmen for the First Amendment, the contemporary courts have chosen one who was out of the country at the time of the formation of the First Amendment and another who felt it unnecessary.” Now, I realize these Founders names aren’t Jefferson and Madison, but they were still Founders and context and timing is too critical to ignore, Mr Lynn. Title: Re: Clueless on Founding Post by: Soldier4Christ on December 08, 2007, 07:11:23 PM Breathingist
What is a "Breathingist:" The term breathingist is a person or group of people who support the tenet that the Constitution is a "living," "breathing" document that automatically adjusts and evolves its legal significance in order to stay current with each generation's progressive reality. An ever-increasing "gray area" that erodes the black and white laws of the Constitution. In a judicial sense, a creator of laws; no absolutes; humanist-based governing. Sally Quinn: Proclaimed atheist, liberal. Journalist and supposed arbiter of society and mainstream opinion in Washington, D.C.. Barry Lynn: Attorney, supposed Reverend, and Executive Director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State Title: Re: Clueless on Founding Post by: Soldier4Christ on December 08, 2007, 07:14:19 PM Fisher Ames: One of Our Forgotten Founding Fathers
Can you name five of our nations Founding Fathers? Likely most of our readers would include in their list George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and James Madison. However, I doubt if any would have included in their list the name of Fisher Ames. He is one of the so called, "forgotten founding fathers." Ames was born in Dedham Massachusetts on April 9th, 1758 and at 50 years of age he died on July 4th 1808. He graduated from Harvard College in 1774 and taught school for five years before turning to law, and in 1781 he was admitted to the bar. Ames was elected president of Harvard in 1804 at age 46, but had to decline because of declining health. Historically, Fisher Ames is best known for his opposition to Jeffersonian democracy. He favored a constitutional republic. Ames said, "A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way. The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." Further, he stated that, "Liberty has never lasted long in a democracy, nor has it ever ended in anything better than despotism." In fact he believed that it was "democracy that pollutes the morals of the people before it swallows up their freedoms." For a pure democracy, he argued, would lend itself to the new nation's coming under the influence of the basest of human motivations: greed and a lack of public virtue. Ames believed that "the United States must lash itself to a constitution of laws, not the whim of democratic preference." Why did Ames believe that? He believed that all men were sinners! He believed that law and morality should not be decided by majority vote but upon the higher principles of the Bible because as a dedicated Christian he believed that the Bible was the true source of wisdom. He believed that our nation would be much more stable if it were a constitutional republic with a constitution rooted in the principles of the Bible. Fisher Ames was an outspoken supporter of the Bible's central role in all of education. He believed the Bible, being the Word of God, should be at the very center of school curriculum. As a first-session congressman he said, "Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a schoolbook? Its morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble." He went on to say, "The reverence for the sacred book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and, probably, if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind." Our founding fathers followed the lead of Fisher Ames and organized a government based on constitutional republican from of government and not a pure democracy. In fact, was Fisher Ames who suggested the wording of the First Amendment, which was adopted by the House: "Congress shall make no law establishing religion, or to prevent the free exercise thereof, or to infringe the rights of conscience." In its final form the first amendment to the United States Constitution reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." |