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"What is Christmas to you?”

December 25th is a holiday that began thousands of years before the birth of Christ.It was steeped around the worship of the Sun (not SON). The pagans believed that the sun was re-born at this time of year. The greenery was placed all around to keep evil spirits away and bring "good luck", and the gift exchange was in honor of the goddess Strenia.  Around 336 A.D. the Catholic Church adopted these pagan practices, and repackaged the holiday and called it Christmas. Meaning Christ's Mass/ an abominable Catholic practice. Most biblical scholars will agree that Jesus was not born in December, due to the inclement weather at this time of year. The shepherds would not have been out in the fields with their flocks.

The first 300 plus years after the death of Christ,the Church of Jesus Christ did not acknowlege His birth ( for no where in the Bible does it say to do such a thing). We are to acknowledge His death.Over the centuries there have been Christians who would not participate in the Catholic; Christ-mass.The Puritans were such a people. They forbade the practice of it when they first settled in Massachussetts.There is a remnant of Christians today who refuse to particpate in this holiday known as Christ-mass.

So what does Christmass mean to me? I believe it's a stench in the nostrils of a Holy God.

"For the customs of the peoples are futile, for one cuts a tree from the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the ax. They decorate it with nails and hammers, so that it will not topple. They are upright, like a palm tree, and they cannot speak." Jer. 10:3-5

Psalm 119

Christmas is no for Pagan then speaking English. English is MORE so Pagan. The Characters we write with, they words we use, all from pagan Languages.

Jer. 10:3-5 is about idols. Not my translate, the truth. They clearly shape the tree into a statue or a figure of some sort. Call me when you find someone worshiping their Christmas tree.

You people sicken me. Getting hung up on such pointless issues. Christmas is what you make it. I say SHAME ON YOU for making it a pagan holiday. I shall celebrate the Birth of Christ. It doesn’t matter what false god’s festival was held, I don’t know about the god your worship, but my God is bigger then that.

Tibby,

If you would take a few moments, go to Google, type in "pagan Christmas", there is tons of information on the pagan origins of Christmas.

You know what is so interesting one can ask most any Pastor about the origins of Christmass and they will tell you they know all about the roots of the holiday, but they give you the BIG BUT.....answer.

Make no mistake about Christmas, it did not originate from Christian roots, then get paganized. Christians took a pagan holiday and have attempted to Christianize it. Jesus said, you will know a tree by it's fruit.

Let me ask you this question:"If Christmass was truly a God honoring holiday, would the wicked have anything to do with it?" "If it is truly the birthdate of the Savior of the World would those who despise Him want to acknowlege this day?"

Tertullian(A.D, 150-230), an early Christian apologist, in his "Treatise of Idolatry" wrote the following:

"Let those who have no light in themselves light candles.
"Let those whom hell fire is hanging fix to their doors laurels doomed presently to burn.
You are the light of the world, you are a tree ever green.
If you have renounced temples, make not your own house a temple.

Here is a link from statements made by Charles Spurgeon (a world famous preacher/evangelist from the 1800's) in regards to Christmas.

http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/resource/spurgeon.htm

These things I share are from someone who loves the Lord Jesus and His Word. Not from a Jehovah's Witness or another cult.

Psalm 119

So what does Christmass mean to me? I believe it's a stench in the nostrils of a Holy God -- Psalm119

You people sicken me. Getting hung up on such pointless issues. Christmas is what you make it. I say SHAME ON YOU for making it a pagan holiday -- Tibby

Greetings to all my brothers and sisters on this Forum. I have been away from this board for many months, and I do regret not being able to communicate with you all.  There were many reasons for my absence. However, the Lord was always in control and He has sustained us and encouraged us. I am sure He has abundantly blessed each one of you day by day, and is continuing to do so.

Regarding the observance of Christmas, there is no question that December 25 was not the date of the birth of our Lord and Saviour, and that it was undoubtedly a pagan festival. When the church of Rome ushered paganism into it's doctrine and practice, Christmas, Easter and many other pagan festivals were given a "Christian" veneer.

At the same time, genuine believers do remember and honour the Lord on this day with genuine worship and praise. So how should we regard Christmas?

Regarding Christmas (or any other "holy" day) the Word of God is quite plain and instructive:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.  Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it... But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, THAT NO MAN PUT A STUMBLINGBLOCK OR AN OCCASION TO FALL IN HIS BROTHER'S WAY" (Romans 14:5-13, see the entire chapter, since it is very instructive regarding all such issues).

If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead.

Grace and peace be to you all through our Lord Jesus Christ

Sower

Amen Brother Sower, amen.  :)  

P.S. Welcome back!

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Sower,

A SECOND AMEN BROTHER!

We are indeed glad to have you back. We missed you.

As for my family, we will be praising and worshiping Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour before the 25th, on the 25th, and after the 25th. In fact, all 365 days of every year belong to HIM, and we could really care less what men call particular days. If we have a Christmas tree, it will be HIS Christmas tree.

Love In Christ,
Tom

My answer may surprise, and even disappoint, some of you, but here goes.  Christmas to me is just another National Holiday, and I celebrate it as a National Holiday, just as I do the 4th of July.  
 
    I place no more spiritual emphasis upon it than I do other days.  God creates every day.  Consequently, each day is holy and special.  I place the same level of holy emphasis upon the 26th of December as I do the 25th.  We dont know the exact date Jesus was born, and we certainly have no instructions to celebrate His birthday.  I celebrate His birth and life every day, not just on certain days.
 
    Now, having said all of that, I can see some good coming from the activities associated with the Christmas Holiday.  Many of this seasons ornaments such as the Christmas carols point people in the direction of the One who gave His life that others might be rescued from the clutches of Satan and this evil world.

Brother Love :)

What is Christmas to me?

It's not a historically correct birthday of Jesus.  It's not, in many cases, even a celebration of that day.  But what is Christmas to me?  I'll answer that with another question I've asked before in a message I preached on this very thing.  What is Christmas?

When I consider this question, I can't help but be drawn back to the lives of three men in the Old Testament: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  What stands out about these three men more than anything to me, is that God made each of them promises - and He kept them.

Take Abraham for example.  Here's a fellow that worshipped the moon, and was most likely even a priest in that cult.  God, by no merit of Abraham's whatsoever, calls him out of Ur of the Chaldees, doesn't tell him where He's calling him too, only that He will show this land to him when he gets there.  But He does tell him why:


All of this, and Abraham goes.  We have issues with believing God will meet our financial needs, and this fellow up and leaves everything, believing he should obey, but not yet believing the God he was obeying (Genesis 15:6)!

What's more, when he does finally believe (a belief that was counted unto him as righteousness), it's only after 15 or so years of silence, waiting for the first son by which this promise would be fulfilled.  That's right!  He had no son by which this promise was to be fulfilled!  Add on top of that, Abraham was 100 years old, and his wife was 90!  The odds were stacked in his favor for disbelieving, yet he believed - and was rewarded with the birth of Isaac!  God gave him the son through which His promises would be fulfilled.  God kept His word to Abraham.

Then take Isaac.  God makes the same promise to him as He made to his father Abraham:


Isaac had learned a life of belief from his father, who was called "the friend of God."  But he had to put his belief in God's promise to him as well.  Afterall, it wasn't until he was 60 that Esau and Jacob were born.  But he too struggled, and he too believed God.  And again, God gave him the son through which His promise would be kept, the younger son Jacob.  God kept His word to Isaac as well as Abraham.

Then consider Jacob.  Here's a guy who is by his very name a cheat.  He cheated Esau out of his birthright and his blessing, both of which were granted to him by God to begin with!  He didn't believe God.  Instead he fled from Esau at the bequest of his parents, and made a bargain with God:


If God will bless and keep me then He will be my God.  What pride!  What arrogance!  What utter disbelief!  And yet, what does God do for Jacob?  He prospers him, blesses him and brings him again to the land his children would one day inherit.  And along the way, Jacob meets a man that he wrestles with the night through, knowing that it was the Lord.  In truth, he knew it was God, and wanted a blessing.  I also tend to think that for the first time in his life Jacob realized God, and when he got a hold of Him, he wasn't about to let go.  God blessed him, changed his name, and made him the same promise He'd made his fathers prior:


Jacob, now called Israel, had come full circle.  He believed God, and God promised him a nation and a land.  God gave him 10 sons through which His promise would be fulfilled.  God kept His word to Jacob.  But what I find most interesting about each of these promises, is that none of these men lived to see those promises come to fruition!  Yet each of them believed.

TO BE CONTINUED...

...CONTINUED

So you say, "Nice history lesson, but what does this have to do with Christmas?"  And again I ask, what is Christmas?

As I think of the promises God made and kept each of these men, I'm reminded of a promise that God made to a woman in the garden, many, many years before Abraham was even thought of in human terms:


God promised a Redeemer would be born of Eve.  When Eve first gave birth, she was overjoyed thinking that that child was the One God had promised - yet she too died in her belief, not seeing the promise fulfilled.  

Until a man named Abraham was called.  God promised him a nation would be born from him - and gave him a son.  God promised that son, Isaac, a nation would be born of him - and gave him twin sons.  God promised the younger son, Jacob a nation would come from him - and gave him 10 sons.  One of those sons was destined for glory, while the other 9 despised him.  They sold Joseph into slavery in Egypt.  Through trial and hardship, Joseph rose to be second only to Pharoah, rescued the land and his family from a deadly famine, restored the bond of that family, and added to his father's children with two of his own.  There in Egypt they stayed, grew into 12 mighty tribes, were enslaved, delivered and brought back into the very land God had promised to give the descendants of Abraham as the nation of Israel.  In later years, from one tribe, Judah, came a king.  From the line of the king, came a Branch - the very fulfillment of God's promise to Eve in the Garden of Eden millennia prior, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

What is Christmas?  It's a promise kept.  The Redeemer had come.  He lived a sinless life, died a criminal's death for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day - and makes yet another promise.  A promise, that if we believe God, that this Son paid the price for our sins on that cross, was buried, and risen again on the third day, taking our sins away and granting us life eternal, and accept that gift in repentance by faith then our guilt is removed, and our eternity is secured.  A promise of salvation from our sins.  Many stagger at such a promise.  But when I think of Christmas, I have to wonder why.  What is Christmas?  It's a promise kept.  What is salvation?  It's a promise made by a God, with a very, very long history of keeping His word.

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Love and Allinall,

AMEN BROTHERS!

Most people get more days off from work during this time frame. It may not be true of all Christians, but the ones I know usually use the extra days off for special Church services, Christian fellowship with friends and family, and a host of other activities with Christ at the core.

My church and another church will join together with our young people and singers to do several performances of a Christmas Cantata. It involves people from 5 to 85 years old, Scripture reading, Christmas Carols, Hymns, and a script about the birth of Jesus with people of all ages playing the parts. This kind of fun is about as clean, Biblical, and honoring to God as you can get. I especially enjoy the involvement of the children. They have supervised practice and teaching numerous times before the Cantata, and I'm positive they learn a lot about Jesus as a primary benefit. Regardless of how strict a Christian might be, I doubt they would be able to find anything wrong with this and other events we have at church during this time of the year.

Love In Christ,
Tom

And a Big AMEN!!! Back at you Bro :)

Brother Love :)

Dear Brothers,

I have an honest question for all of you?  " I have heard many people say that this is the time to honor the Savior and His birth, a time to tell others about Christ; have any of you ever led someone to the Lord during this season?"

Psalm 119

Hi, Psalm 119, glad to see you back.   :)

Psalm makes an excellent point.  We are to be instant in season and out of season.  And Paul warns in Galatians about the rigid and endless keeping of this day and that day.  I would say that includes christmas, birthdays or anything else.

Still, Christmas is a reminder by its very title.  In my small rural town, "Christmas" is being less and less permitted--even from your lips.  In fact, there are those here, I believe, who are vividly fulfilling Dr. Seuss's "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" without even realizing it!!  They don't want you to even "think" the ideas of forgiveness, making up, which to me are a part of Christmas.  Christmas for me is an opportunity to sometimes mend old wounds with others.

But still, we aren't to reserve that for just one season in the year, as Psalm and bep and others here would remind us.

I might give a nod to Christmas.  I'll still give a gift to the postman.  And maybe to a few others.  But probalby not much more than that.  In the family?  No.  They all do.  But I probably won't.  It becomes a rite, which is pagan.

Thank you, Jesus, for the year-round Christmas that we have in Him... :)

Hello Everyone, as you can see i am new. :) I have known for a long time that The Catholic church adopted pagan celebtrations, to bring pagans in to the church and possibly covert them. as i understand it , the Catholic church thought it was  a good idea to do this, so it would ease their transition (as misguided as it is)  I understand this. I have to agree with those that say that it is our intentions, what is in our hearts that matters. God knows my heart, my beginning and end. So He knows that even tho i charish every day that He gives me, i also revere the day Jesus was born, because it is important to me. I know that there is no actual record of the exact day of His birth. But i choose to honor this day, like the day He died. As i watched a Christain video about Christmas last night with my 2 1/2 year old daughter and my husband, a thought dawned on me. He chose to come, to be born- knowing that He would have to not only suffer death for us, but knowing that He would have to suffer the indignities of having a diaper change, learning how to walk and talk. The Son of God!The fact that He chose to be born is an awesome thing to me. tho i can find no scripture saying that i should celebrate this day, it is my choice to honor Him in His birth as i do everyday, and especially His death. We do sing Happy Birthday (i hope that doesn't sound cheesey) to Jesus before we open presents, and take time to note that Jesus is the Reason for the season. My family views Christmas as a time to give to each other, not only material things, but love and honor and forgivness. This year , all of my family are a little short in the wallet, so we are giving the latter, lol. we try not to view it as a ritual, but as something we want to do. But please, let us use this forum to encourage each other, not to tear each other down. There are plenty of other places to do that. ;) I joined last night because i truly wanted to find a place for Christians to fellowhip. I hope that this is the place. anyway, thanks for taking the time to read my views.
Hugs in Christ, Mary

Oklahoma Howdy to HopeAndFaith,

AMEN SISTER!

I enjoyed your post. You are completely correct that God knows our hearts in what we do every day, including 12-25. Regarding the short in the wallet problem, I think that a fairly large percentage of us suffer from that problem.  :D

For that reason, a lot of our church activities involve pot-luck gatherings where we eat together, enjoy the company, and have fellowship.

Please let me give you a second welcome to Christians Unite. You are a welcome addition to the family here. I look forward to reading your posts.

In Christ,
Tom

 

Psalms119-  I never doubted the fact there are pagan origins. It isn’t when we Celebrate that matters, it is WHAT we celebrate. Why do people who know this always assume we who disagree don’t? You asked me 2 questions:

"If Christmass was truly a God honoring holiday, would the wicked have anything to do with it?”

Nope. Which is why there is nothing Wicked about it. History is not for us to fear, but to learn from and correct. We have learned that these days where used to celebrate gods, and corrected the issue.
 
"If it is truly the birthdate of the Savior of the World would those who despise Him want to acknowlege this day?"

Because presents are involved and we get off work and school despite our religious affiliation. When you tack on things like money, and presents, and vacation, people start lining up to join in the fun. It isn’t who Celebrates it that matters, it is what WE celebrate. Those who despise him are celebrating something else, I am celebrating God.

Unless you are attacking the use of light, I don’t see the relevance of  the Tertullian quote to this.

Spurgeon said some good things. But there are a few Problems with it:

1. And his is a personal thing, but it might be important to point out at this time that I see no problem with the mass. I think you know that, but I’ll just add this in.

2. The Bible doesn’t say a think about Christmas, correct. Hey, it doesn’t say a thing about Mass being bad, either! What do ya know? Hey, I just did a search, the internet isn’t anywhere in the bible. The fact something isn’t mentioned in the bible doesn’t make it wrong.

3. Superstition? How is Christmas Superstition? It is a celebration. Christ Clearly had no problem with people celebrating him. Everyone knows all about Christmas not being the date. Everyone knows that the predominate theory is it was in the Spring, we know, we know. It isn’t when we Celebrate that matters, it is WHAT we celebrate. Leave date-setting to the Eschatologists and Creationists.

 I had said it before, and I will say it again, This is the day that the lord has made. Tomorrow will be the day that the lord has made, and you know what? December 25 is the day that the lord has made. The Pagans did not make the day the celebrate, God made the day. Saturn didn’t made the Day, God did. I for one will no longer stand idly by and let the Pagans take one more December 25 for their own. December 25 is the Day that the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it. And I will NOT be scared off by some ancient Pagan tradition!


I'm going ot ditto that, as well.

 ;D Thanks Tom, i think i am going to really like here!
*stands up and claps!* you go ahead with your bad- err, i mean good self! My mom would love that!

Christmas to me is the gospel.  The "good news".  Growing up, for me it was always "good news".

I think for little children the world over, while Christmas is still permitted, it is exactly that, "good news", to them.  The bright lights, the festivities.  the eggnog(yum).  The presents.

Christmas represents for me generosity, old wounds healed, peace, a time to make up.  That's what for Christians Christmas is, the birth of "forgiveness", in the form of a real, live baby boy.   :)

But Christmas to me isn't a time, or a season.

For that reason, I probably withdraw from too much of the seasonal affair.  

But if given the chance, I will use the Christmas season to advance His Kingdom, Lord willing, in some way. :)

Anyone feeling sorry for themselves during this season or any other should feel ashamed of themselves.  ::)

To me, Christmas is silence.

It's the need to get away from the party for a while, and go be alone with my God. It isn't the one day to forget the distractions and focus on Christ; rather, it is the annual day that I'm reminded to focus on Him everyday.

It's silence. Bowing down before His throne, what can I say? What do you say to your all-powerful Creator, with so much power, but because of His only Son, He says...nothing? Nothing about the things that would make me say plenty if I were in His shoes.

And He knows I know, and so we commune together. I ask His thoughts, and hear nothing; a peaceful reminder that I will receive my answers in time, and there is no discomfort over this today. When have I ever needed His counsel and not received it? And so begins the introspection to find the answer. But I will do this later.

For now, hours are spent with His breathing His will into my soul with silence, and my returning it to Him through prayer.

Christmas is about the knowledge that focusing on Christ is what we do in our souls. It's a commitment to seek Him when the visible signs are gone, the tree is down, and we are once more in the midst of those who do not know Him.

Christmas is a somber reminder that if God has forgiven us, so must we forgive others. It is a requirement for our own forgiveness. Christmas is a chance to practice what I know about this. A reminder that God requires nothing less than our very souls.

And there's tremendous joy in what this powerful God has done for temporal breaths of wind like us. Christmas is the mix of raw power and insurmountable love.

Christmas is a festivity of silence.

Men have given many gifts to each other down through
the ages, but in James 1:17 we read that "every good gift
and every perfect gift is from above," and comes to us from
God. The greatest of these gifts is our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ and the redemption He has purchased for us.
In speaking to the sinner-woman at Sychar’s well, our Lord
drew a picture, contrasting the barrenness of her own life
with the refreshing joy of salvation, saying:

"If thou knewest THE GIFT OF GOD, and who it is that saith to thee, Give Me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of Him, and He would have given thee living water... Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again, but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst..." (John 4:10-14).

By nature we are all sinners, but by the grace of God we
all may be saved.

"For the wages of sin is death, but THE GIFT OF GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).

"For by grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is THE GIFT OF GOD: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).

Thus St. Paul speaks of "the gift of the grace of God" (Eph.
3:7) and constantly emphasizes the fact that salvation is a
free gift.

But a gift is not possessed until it is accepted. Thus the
Apostle, in Rom. 5:17, refers to those who "RECEIVE abun-
dance of grace and of the gift of righteousness."

Those who receive Christ and the salvation He has
wrought for them, find it natural to exclaim with Paul-
"THANKS BE UNTO GOD FOR HIS UNSPEAKABLE
GIFT!" (II Cor. 9:15).


Merry Christmas ;D

19 more days ;D

"If we keep our focus on the Saviour and what His birth, life, death and resurrection mean to each one of us and to this universe, it matters not whether the origin of "Christ-mass" was pagan. God regardeth the heart, so make Christmas a day of worship of the triune Godhead."


But for the Christian should not this be a 365/24/7 happening?
Not just on so called days appointed by a non biblical church government?

Of course! That goes without "non biblical" saying. However, there is so much to praise him for. He lives out side of the "non biblical" time, we, however, do not. When the "non biblical" church government (whatever means) declares a day a day of celebration, doesn't mean we should only worship him on these days. This isn't "non biblical" rocket science I am talking about here. ;) It is a simple enough "non biblical" concept to grasp. This is a "non biblical" time to Celebrate Christ's Birth. Whether on this "non biblical" forum or in "non biblical" real life

Well that sure was fun ;D

Every day is Christmas!!

Merry Christmas!!

Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT!!

Love in Christ,
Tom

I believe more than any other time of the year the whole world is going berserk!  Really the hardest thing about "Christmas" for me is not so much what the world does (the world doesn't know any better), but what many Christians do.  The church we attend put up a Christmas tree that nearly touches the ceiling.  And that tree is only a few feet from the Lord's Supper Table.  (I am not trying to demean these people.  I love them and worship with them every Sunday).  But where in God's Word does it say to cut a tree, bring it into the church auditorium, decorate it and put it next to the Lord's Table?  What is worse is, what if that tree becomes a stumbling block for someone who is newly saved or isn't saved but might be thinking about it?  What does this have to do with Jesus?

The Bible Study group we attend is having a gift exchange.  It's $5.00 for a man's gift and $5.00 for a woman's gift.  And it might be that the person who receives a gift doesn't want it, can't eat it, or can't use it.  What does this have to do with Jesus?

Two Christmases that I remember the most were days that were spent doing for others.  One year, my husband and I loaded our van and took food that was collected by the church to a Christian children's home that was about seventy miles away. The home needed the food. They were happy we came.  Another year, my husband who was in pulpit ministry at the time and I went to the local nursing home and entertained the people who live there.  The people needed the company.  

Christmas isn't about 'what will I get'?  Christmas, if we even have to have Christmas, is about giving from our hearts to others.  

All the money that is spent on trees, decorations, gifts, gift wrap, ribbon, lights, etc., just think
--how many people who are hungry could be fed,
--how many homes could be found for the homeless,
--how many people could be helped in many other ways?  
I know I am getting carried away.  But Christmas is all give me, give me, give me.  

I believe what Jesus said in Matthew 6:33--"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you."

and
Luke 6:38--"Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, they will pour into your lap.  For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."

and
Acts 4:32--"And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own; but all things were common property to them.
Acts 4:33--"And with great power the apostles were giving witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.
Acts 4:34--"For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would see them and bring the proceeds of the sales,
Acts 4:35--"and lay them at the apostles' feet; and they would be distributed to each, as any had need."
and
Acts 4:36--"And Joseph, a Levite of Cyprian birth, who was also called Barnabas by the apostles (which translated means, Son of Encouragement),
Acts 4:37--"and who owned a tract of land, sold it and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet."

This is Christianity.  Why do we even need "Christmas"?  Christians ought to be about doing the Lord's business; Jesus set the example when He was on the earth.  

In Christ,
Berean

But where does the bible talk about setting up a designated Lord’s Table? Sounds like more of that “non biblical” stuff Ollie was talking about!

lol j/k ;D


Good stuff, though. Your right, a lot of Churches take this holy time way to far. Well, I lot of Church take the Decor to far anyways. You know, there was such a thing as reverence at one time.

Celebration is not unbiblical or new. In the OT, God commanded Israel to celebrate with joy, with rich foods and drinks. At one point He commanded Israel (on this one particular day, not as a rule) not to cry over their sin because He wanted them to celebrate His generosity and mercy. The rest of the year is for mourning. This day was for rejoicing.

Giving gifts doesn't mean someone isn't focusing on Christ. Christmas isn't a day of fasting or staring at the ceiling repeating His name. To focus on CHrist means to live out what He taught us. It means to love, to have joy (which is a gift of the Holy Spirit) , and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

Here's an example from real life.

Person A sent person B a Christmas card. It was gold foil, it had a bell and angel on it, and the pre-printed message was to have a joyous holiday season. Person A wrote a Christ-centered message inside, and sent it with love.

Person B sent back a folded piece of paper with the drawn imprint of a baby's foot, and a nail on the inside. The perceived message was, it doesn't matter how beautiful the card is. What matters is what it says about Christ.

Person A's response was, "But I sent mine in Christian love. And I received in return a Christ-centered condemnation."

Don't get me wrong-I think Christ should be the center of everything we do, and the decorations should point to Him and it should be in our conversation.

But sometimes I think we worry more about the outward manifestations than we do the inner spirit. Focusing on Christ means loving Him to other people.

If a poor person feels pressured to spend too much for gifts on a credit card because of what we buy for him, we are no longer acting in love. But to enjoy the celebration: what a somber God we would have if He condemned us for adding joy and festivity to the celebration of His name.

It's when Christ truly *isn't* the focus that I think we need to worry.

It's when Christ truly *isn't* the focus that I think we need to worry.


But what does THAT mean?  

For me it means minimizing outward activity--that is, all the festivities.

Still, I do *some* of it.  And I enjoy seeing others participating in it.  I enjoy Christmas music, Handel's Messiah.

I think your first post(Dec. 5) above comes closest, for me.  

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't like Christmas at all.   ;D

Seriously, I think it's all just a bunch of stupid, sugary sweet sentimentality, that gets people who don't have anyone to celebrate with all whooped up in their own misery.

I think Paul's warnings about his keeping of calendar days, in Galatians, is right on.

So I'm sounding like a Jehovah's Witness here.  But no, if others around me are doing it, fine.  If they invite me to participate, I'll participate.  

But I won't initiate or all that stuff.

Signed,

The Grinch.   8)  (hehe)

    ;D

Spending the holidays alone is very difficult. I know-I've done it before, too. And I'm really sorry this is the case for you. I wish there was something I could do to make it easier-I really do.  :'(

It isn’t about “festivities” it is about worship. It is all about worship. We here in America have forgotten that, and then try to blame it on the “festivities.” Fast food may contribute to the problem, but it isn’t the leading and only factor in making your fat. In our church, in the Liturgical year, we celebrate Christ year-round. Not just at Easter or Christmas. Every season, Every week, every day, is a new thing to celebrate him about. It isn’t just the Easter and Christmas, it is all over that then some. It isn’t one day of Easter or Christmas, it is Lent and Advent and Nativity, the seasons revolve around Christ. It isn’t one day of opening presents and being with family, it is a whole section of the year set apart for celebrating for Christ for the simple fact his was born. Born to die for our sins (and that is a whole other part of the year ;) ).



This is what I mean, it is an attitude most of us take in America. We only get the Christmas and Easter thing.  We never get to see the fullness of the worship, only the peace. It is like coming in during the last 5 minutes of a Suspense Thriller. SO, we never fully understand the plot and we never get a piece of the action, we only get the tail end of thing where they are explaining all the stuff we regrettably missed.  

By the way, I'm not picking on you, Sym, but you said it first.  ;D

Berea,

You have answered rightly!

Psalm 119

Commercialism of a few keep the rest of us from Celebrating Christmas, that is what I’m hearing. That being the case, I say shame on us. We let a few fat cats take over the celebration of the Birth of Christ and make it is silly that even Christians don’t want to celebrate it. Shame on us for letting the world effect how we worship Christ.

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Come rain or shine or Plastic light up Santa statues, I will worship the lord every day of the year, and come the 25th of this month, I will worship his God and praise his son's birth and all that that is represents to us as Christians.  :)

8) Amen, Tibby!
Another point to ponder:
While commercialism takes over, so does the message of Christ. "Joy to the world, the Lord is come!" "Remember Christ our Saviour was born for you this day!" They may be listening to it just for the tune, but we have the satisfaction of cramming the words in free!  ;D Radio stations broadcast it, and we don't even have to pay air time!

 Christmas Cake Recipe
> > > >
> > > > Ingredients:
> > > > 1 cup of water
> > > > 1 tsp baking soda
> > > > 1 cup of sugar
> > > > 1 tsp salt
> > > > 1 cup of brown sugar
> > > > Lemon juice
> > > > 4 large eggs
> > > > 1 cup nuts
> > > > 1 bottle Jose Quervo Tequilla
> > > > 2 cups of dried fruit
> > > >
> > > > Sample theQuervo to check quality.
> > > >
> > > > Take a large bowl, check the Quervo again, to be sure it is of the
> > > > highest quality, pour one level cup and drink.
> > > >
> > > > Turn on the electric mixer...Beat one cup of butter in a large
fluffy
> > > > bowl. Add one teaspoon of sugar...Beat again. At this point it's
best
> > > to
> > > > make sure the Quervo is still OK, try another cup ... just in case
> > > >
> > > > Turn off the mixerer thingy.
> > > >
> > > > Break 2 leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried
fruit,
> > >
> > > > Pick the frigging fruit off floor...Mix on the turner. If the fried
> > > > druit gets stuck in the beaterers just pry it loose with a
> > > drewscriver.
> > > > Sample the Quervo to check for tonsisticity. Next, sift two cups of
> > > > salt, or something. Who giveshz a hit. Check the Jose Quervo
> > > >
> > > > Now shift the lemon juice and strain your nuts. Add one table.
> > > > Add a spoon of sugar, or somefink. Whatever you can find. Greash the
> > > > oven. Turn the cake tin 360 degrees and try not to fall over. Don't
> > > > forget to gotcha76 the turner. Finally, throw the bowl through the
> > > > window, Finish the Jose Quervo and kick the cat.
> > > >
> > > > CHERRY MISTMAS! OR IS IT CHEERY DISTMAS OH WELL HERE'S TO YOU!
> > >

Again, i must say that intentions, what is in your heart is what counts. If a person feels guilty for  joining in with the commercialism of Christmas, maybe the Lord is speaking to you to do more. My point is that the Holy Spirit hasn't told me not to put up my Christmas tree, or send out Chrsitams cards, or buy my only child Christmas gifts. I did obey and make most of my gifts this year for other family members, and i did obey by having my daughter pick out toys to give for Toys for Tots. Maybe the Lord directs some to feed the homeless. This year the Holy Spirit has directed me to make Christmas dinner fo my father-in-law,who has terminal cancer so that he can have a blessed Christmas for the last time(with whom my husband and i have had many, many "disagreements" with, to the point of not talking for 4 months at a time because he put his girlfriend before his own granddaughter. we only live a mile away!). The body of Christ is not mass of mindless beings... the Holy Spirit deals with each of us in our own way, because though we are one body, each part is unique and has it's purpose. i think it is unfair to say that just because a person doesn't have a problem with understanding the true meaning of what Christmas is supposed to be- the celebration of the birth of our Redeemer- that that person is somehow less in God's eyes for putting up a Christmas tree. If we are obedient to what the Lord wants for us, then "its all good".

Weeweechu

One beautiful December evening Huan Cho and his girlfriend
Jung Lee were sitting by the side of the ocean. It was a
romantic full moon, when Huan Cho said "Hey baby, let's
play Weeweechu."

"Oh no, not now, lets look at the moon" said Jung Lee.

"Oh, c'mon baby, let's you and I play Weeweechu. I love
you and it's the perfect time," Huan Cho Begged.

"But I rather just hold your hand and watch the moon."

"Please Jung Lee, just once play Weeweechu with me."

Jung Lee looked at Huan Chi and said, "OK, we'll play
Weeweechu."

Huan Cho grabbed his guitar and they both sang.....

"Weeweechu a Merry Christmas, Weeweechu a Merry Christmas, Weeweechu a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year."

AND SO DO I!

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,


 ;D  LOL

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!

Love In Christ,
Tom

DITTO :)

Brother Love :)

Ditto ditto! ;D Merry Christ Being Born to everyone! I hope you all are blessed right out of your socks!

Ditto to the third power!  :D

 No Offense, Santa

We all know that Santa is a lot of fun, but consider the following:
 
Santa lives at the North Pole... Jesus is everywhere.

Santa rides in a sleigh... Jesus walks on water.

Santa comes but once a year... Jesus is an ever-present help.

Santa fills your stockings with goodies... Jesus supplies all of your needs.


You have to wait in line to see Santa... Jesus is as close as the mention of His name.

Santa lets you sit on his lap... Jesus lets you rest in His arms.
Santa doesn't know your name, all he can say is "Hi, little boy or little girl..." Jesus knew your name before you did. He knows your history and future and He even knows how many hairs are on your head.
Santa has a belly like a bowl full of jelly... Jesus has a heart full of love.

All Santa can offer is "HO, HO, HO..." Jesus offers help, hope and eternal life.

Santa says, "You better not cry..." Jesus says, "Cast all your cares on me for I care for you."

Santa's little helpers make toys...Jesus makes lives new, mends wounded hearts, repairs broken homes and builds mansions.

Santa may make you chuckle... but Jesus gives you joy that is your strength.

While Santa puts gifts under your tree... Jesus became a gift and died on a tree, and through His resurrection, wants to set you free!

Good Post Brother

While Santa puts gifts under your tree... Jesus became a gift and died on a tree, and through His resurrection, wants to set you free!

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Love & Ambassador4Christ,

Amen Brothers!

Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT!

In Christ,
Tom

lol, Good stuff, but we need to add some GIF’s to it ;D Talk to sym ;)

;D ;D

12 Days of Christmas

There is one Christmas Carol that has always baffled me. Have you ever wondered about THE TWELVE DAYS OF CHRISTMAS?

What in the world do leaping lords, French hens, swimming swans, and especially the partridge who won't come out of the pear tree have to do with Christmas?

Today, I found out. From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not permitted to practice their faith openly. Someone during that era wrote this carol as a catechism song for young Catholics. It has two levels of meaning: the surface meaning plus a hidden meaning known only to members of their church. Each element in the carol has a code word for a religious reality, which the children could remember.

The partridge in a pear tree was Jesus Christ.

Two turtledoves were the Old and New Testaments

Three French hens stood for faith, hope and love.

The four calling birds were the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

The five golden rings recalled the Torah or Law, the first five books of the Old Testament.

The six geese a-laying stood for the six days of creation.

Seven swans a-swimming represented the sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit: Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhortation, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy.

The eight maids a-milking were the eight beatitudes.

Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit:Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self Control.

The ten lords a-leaping were the Ten Commandments.

The eleven pipers piping stood for the eleven faithful disciples.

The twelve drummers drumming symbolized the twelve points of belief in The Apostles' Creed.

So there is your history for today. This knowledge was shared with me and I found it interesting and enlightening and now I know how that strange song became a Christmas Carol... so pass it on if you wish.


Brother Love :)

P.S. Hail Mary

          Wow BL does that mean you changed your mind on RC.

No way, I believe the Roman Religion is a False Religion.
I really mean I Know its a FALSE religion.
Grace & Peace

Brother Love :)

Brother Love,

Are you saying that a Catholic can't be a Christian and a Christian can't be a Catholic?

If so, what must a man do to be saved and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour according to the Holy Bible?

In Christ,
Tom

Sure some Roman catholics are Christians.
And sure Christians can be Roman Catholics.
What I am saying is the Religion of Rome is a False Religion.
I dont H-A-T-E the people that are caught up in this FALSE religion, I H-A-T-E the religion. I dont believe anyone can get saved by this Religion. But what do I know, I only believe the Word of God (The Bible).

Have A Nice Day :)

Brother Love :)

WOW. (And, of course, the "true love" that gives all these things is God.)

Two Weeks Before Christmas!

T'was two weeks before Christmas, And all through Iraq,
The people still worried that Saddam would be back.
The soldiers went out on their nightly patrol,
Capturing the bad guys was always their goal!

With raids seeming endless in the triangle Sunni,
We hoped that not all of Iraq was so looney!
We gathered the tribe of Saddam, in Tikrit,
And suddenly now they all started to snit!

They told of a farm where Hussein just might be
Odierno then called on our boys- from the great 4th ID!
More rapid than Baathists our soldiers they came,
And he whistled and shouted and called them by name

Now Delta, Now Rangers, Now Cavalry too!
On Green Hats, on Pilots, I need all of you!
Go to that farm and secure it right now!
Capture his ass- you guys know how!

Off went our soldiers under cover of night,
So stealthy, so quiet with no trace of light
While we back at home were eating our lunches,
Our boys on the ground were following hunches!

And then it was time for the raid to begin.
The first target came up -empty within!
Could it be our Intel was wrong once again?
No! Somewhere nearby is the wolf in his den!

And then, in a twinkling, camouflage torn away
In a hole in the ground did their quarry lay
Dazed and confused, right at them he looked,
Did the stupid old fool know his goose was now cooked?

He was dressed all in rags from his toes to his head,
And his beard was as matted as 12 day-old bread!
How the mighty had fallen, could this be Hussein?
One look in his eyes was to know he's insane!

Our boys got their man - how proud we all are
The relief in our country is felt near and far
A bath he has had now -yet he'll never be clean
Forever tainted with mass torture and his Fedaheen

To our soldiers we give our undying respect
You always give more than we ever expect
We hope you can have now a night with some fun
Your loved ones back home say- JOB WELL DONE!



****MERRY CHRISTMAS GUYS.  WELL DONE.  GOD BLESS.****

If you want the get really technical, the twelve days isn’t a random number, either. Catholic run on a Liturgical Calendar. In each section of the calendar, we set a part to celebrate a part of Jesus’ life, Christmas, Easter, etc.

(http://www.mhschool.com/benziger/program/images/lit_cal.jpg)

Back in the day, they had something called Christmastide, which was celebrated from December 25 to January 6, it is the celebration of Christian birth. Today, it extend to the 12th, which is the Baptism of Christ, but back in the day, it was only 12 days, the 25-6. There are twelve days of Christmas in the song, because back then, there was actually 12 days of Christmas. ;D

Now you know the rest of the story ;)

The Lutherans have the Liturgical calender, as well.

And Episcopalians.

The letters in Episcopal rearranged spell Pepsi Cola.


    ???

Military Christmas!  ;D What a nice surprise!

PLEASE don't do that, I was drinking milk!!!!!   (http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/joysong/rofl.gif)

Yeah, the Christian church didn’t stop the liturgy until way after the Reformation. The Methodists, Anglicans, and Lutherans (just to name a few) still run there services in a Liturgical form. The Reformation wasn’t meant to form a whole new church, but to Reform the existing one.

The U in Jes U s


Before U were thought of or time had begun,
God even stuck U in the name of His Son.


And each time U pray, you'll see it's true
You can't spell out Jes U s and not include U .


You're a pretty big part of His wonderful name,
For U , He was born; that's why He came.


And His great love for U is the reason He died.
It even takes U to spell cr U cified.


Isn't it thrilling and splendidly grand
He rose from the dead, with U in His plan?


The stones split away, the gold tr U mpet blew,
and this word res U rrection is spelled with a U .

When Jes U s left earth at His upward ascension,
He felt there was one thing He just had to mention.


"Go into the world and tell them it's true
That I love them all - Just like I love U ."


So many great people are spelled with a U ,
Don't they have a right to know Jes U s too?


It all depends now on what U will do,
He'd like them to know,
But it all starts with U .

Awesome! Thanks, bro.

I will be passing this one on

Thanks Bro

Brother Love :)

I thought some of you might enjoy this one. From an e-mail...

Dear Lord, I'm feeling down today,
The bills are stacked up high;
With Christmas just two weeks away,
Our bank account's run dry.

The kids have all presented lists
Of things they want to see;
I hope and pray there's nothing missed
Beneath our Christmas tree.

But I don't have the money for
Expensive clothes and toys;
My credit card can't take much more,
Lord, where's my Christmas joy?

Perhaps it's wrapped up in that hug
My daughter gave this morn;
Or stacked with wood my son did lug
To keep us nice and warm.

Perhaps it's in my oldest's eyes
When he comes home on break,
And sees I've baked those pumpkin pies
He wanted me to make.

Perhaps it's in the tired lines
Around my husband's eyes;
Perhaps in love that's grown with time
I've found the greater prize.

A friend who gives a hearty smile,
And cupboards that aren't bare;
And, even if they aren't in style,
I've got some clothes to wear.

A family who believes in me
In all things great and small;
Dear God, I think I finally see -
I am not poor at all!

I'm Not Poor at All

      ~By Michele T. Huey

Good one sincereheart, thanks

Oklahoma Howdy to Sincereheart,

Thanks, that was very nice. Here's another one I just got by Email - Author Unknown.
________________________________________

If you ask me, everyone seems to be missing the point here about Christmas! Christmas is an acknowledgement and celebration of Jesus's life and has nothing to do with ANYTHING Pagan. Admittedly it might not fall bang on the 25th of December, give or take here or there because this is thousands of years ago so WHY are people surprised? Christmas is one of the biggest christian events (aside to easter and the resurrection) so no more talking of any Pagan stuff, Can you not see the devil trying to trick you in to thinking Christmas is about a pagan festival?! Hope this clears up all the nonsense on the message board!!!!In love

Samx :)

Those a re very nice poems. Thanks, guys.

DITTO ;D

Yeah, the Christian church didn’t stop the liturgy until way after the Reformation. The Methodists, Anglicans, and Lutherans (just to name a few) still run there services in a Liturgical form. The Reformation wasn’t meant to form a whole new church, but to Reform the existing one.

Hm, that's interesting.  Thank you, Tibby.

I wonder about "liturgy".  

The wisemen bringing gifts for the baby Jesus is arguably, "liturgical", at least a little bit.  That is, "ceremonial"--if that is what is meant loosely by the term "liturgical".

So there is some precedent for liturgy.

But at the same time, all the ceremony is really a turn-off, esp. when what we're talking about here is, actually, I thought, "freedom" from all this--that is, freedom from the Old Testament law--and "liturgy".

In fact, couldn't you say the Pharisees, were "liturgy" incarnate?

Welcome to the forum! And amen, too!