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I'll ask the moderators not to participate until 11-15.

Please list your reasons and any Scriptures that apply. There's a lot of confusion on this subject, so this is a good question to discuss.

I voted on this last night but I will have to get to the why's  and wherefore's tonight after work.  :D

In Christ,
Grammyluv

Yes,
IF your talking about the WORKS of Faith and NOT the Works of the Law?
Galatians 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith  of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law  shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh  I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness  come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace  are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God[/color]:

9 Not of works, lest any man  should boast.

James 2:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith  save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?  

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith  without thy works, and I will shew  thee my faith  by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith  without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith  wrought with his works, and by works  was faith made perfect?  
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how  that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Hebrews 11
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

  3Through faith  we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

  4By faith  Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5By faith  Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7By faith  Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8By faith  Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith  he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11Through faith  also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

   12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

   13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

   14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

   15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

   16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

   17By faith  Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

   18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

   19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

   20By faith  Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

   21By faith  Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

   22By faith  Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

   23By faith  Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

   24By faith  Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

   25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

   26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

   27By faith  he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

   28Through faith  he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

   29By faith  they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

   30By faith  the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

   31By faith  the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

   32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

   33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

   34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

   35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

   36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

   37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

   38(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

   39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

   40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The way you put the poll, You've left it to the Imagination, And if someone was'nt well versed on what the Bible says, IT might cause some Confusion?
Both answer are correct, "Faith or Works"

James 2:14-17 (New King James Version)
   
14: What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Read through verse 26. Basically, I think we are in error if we see it as an either/or question. It'ds both/and. Faith and works go together. You can have one without the other and expect salvation!

John 3:16

That's it folks.  That's all there is to it.
Of course there are good works to be done.  We should have a servant's attitude, and should strive to be as like Christ as we can in all that say think and do.  But that has nothing to do with our "salvation".  Salvation is a free love gift from the God.

No, we are not capable of living a perfect life from birth until death, which is what it would take for anyone to earn his way into heaven. That is why Jesus had to die for our sins on the cross, because we aren't capable of getting ourselves there.

Eph. 2:8,9 says, "For by grace are ye save through faith, and that not of yourself. It is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast." For our works to help get us into heaven or to keep our salvation is to say that Jesus' death and resurrection weren't enough to save us, and that the hand of God is not strong enough to keep us. I don't know about any of you, but I serve an OMNIPOTENT, loving,  and merciful God. He has the power to save us and to keep us saved without our puny help. He is forgiving when we sin as a Christian, and He will NOT take away what He has given us. Jesus said that of all those that His Father had given Him, He has lost NONE!

Amen Brother Jon-Marc!  ;)

Hi
I don't know about anyone else?
But, when i found Jesus, God Adopted me as HIS SON, and I am not called a Servant any Longer by HIM...
James 1:
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all  men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall  be given him.

James 1:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away  of his own lust, and enticed.

15Then when lust  hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth  forth death.

SO Evil (LUST) can't Conceive and bring forth sin if you don't let it manafest in you and if you do that NO sin has been commited Right?
How i see this Is, at the end of the 14th verse is at the point of being enticed? right?
So if you dont let the beginning of the 15th verse take place "Lust being Conceived" you have stopped before it became a Sin? Right?
I hope someone can see what i'm saying by this?
YLBD

Anyone else want to take a shot at this?  (http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s200/somethingsilly_/screencaps%20and%20such/scratch_one-s_head.gif)
I think I need to lie down.

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z230/hersheyy_babyy/SMiliE/heart.gif)

Sorry for being such a Hardhead about this...
YLBD
P.S
Good Night & may God give you a nice night of rest,
If he don't call for us by Morning I'll Type to ya tomorrow Sis,
God Willing of course? :)

Matt 20:26  Not so with you.  Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave --just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many

Gal 5:13  You, my brothers, were called to be free.  But do not use your feedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love

Eph 6:7  Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men

1 Peter 4:10  Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms.

Luke 22:27  For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves?  Is it not the one who is at the table?  But I am among you as one who serves.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

By being a servent and serving others we are also being a servent and serving Christ.

Good night LittleBoy and you sleep well too.  ;)

I'm the oldest with 3 younger brothers.  This is what they called me and still do.  I like it.  ;D

Every morning I get up and I can hardly wait to see what someone has posted on these polls and I am disappointed.  Of over 3,000 members there are only 4? 5? of us willing to jump up.

I am sure there are other ministers on here that are not moderators.  PK's?  Ladies?  Do you not have an opinion or a BELIEF?  This is the problem with the church today.  Everyone is happy to sit on the side lines and watch.
Say something.  Right or wrong.  That is how we learn folks.  Step out and say what is on your mind.  Tell me I'm an old bitty for writing this.  Anything!

I can tell that there are other people out there by the number of times these threads have been read.  I also know it's not just the people posting... just to read what we've already written.

Come on!  I double dog dare ya!

In Christ,
Grammyluv  ;)

Hi Sis,
I know the Greatest among us are to serve others..Yes, we are servants of god in that sense....
I'm the oldest also in my family too..
YLBD

You've all read when paul talked about us being in a race?
And that no one enters a race to finish last, Well i took that to Heart when i was a littleboy,
and i've ran with that notion on my mind all my life as far back as i can remember
and i've watched alot of people just walking as some do in races...

I always look at church. Like a gas station you go their to get Filled up, then during the week you pass people up that are out of gas(spiritually), you syphon alittle fuel(Gods Words) out for them so that they can make it to the Gas Station(church) and so on and so forth...
If we all would syphon alittle fuel(Gods Word) for those that are sitting on the side of the road broke down,
we would have alot more people driving around on FULL! ;D
YLBD

 :D   Sister, we had close to 10,000 members at one time, but many of them hadn't been here in years, so their accounts and membership were canceled. We have lots of folks who only log in once in a while, but we have tons of readers. We average over 12,000 page views per day, and we'd love to have many more people actively participate every day. That might be something like us saying that it would be wonderful if all Christians studied their Bibles every day.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oops!  Sorry Tom.  Not what I meant at all.  Just trying to urge more to participate.  ;D

Sister Yvette,

I understood completely and didn't think anything bad at all. It would be interesting to see about a dozen Christians discussing this issue.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Oh.  Well in that case....of all the things I've lost.....I miss my mind the most!  ;D

Remember now that you were the one that said that. Oops ... that's right you can't remember it without a mind.   ;D ;D ;D

 ;D   ;D   ROFL!

That reminds me of a dream I had last night. I dreamed that I was awake and woke up to find out that I was asleep.

I also made a mistake and tried to unlock the house with the car key. It started up, so I drove it around the block.

So, just remember:  wherever you go - there you are.

It's not nice to pick on little old ladies....why, I have a half a mind..............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz .................

At least you found half of it.   ;D ;D ;D  Now you just need to keep that half awake.

You Guy's are Killing me ROFL :'( :'( :'(
YLBD

for by grace are you saved through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.
only the shed blood of Jesus can save us from our sins. We do good works after we
are saved because we love our savior, and because he has removed the stoney heart in
us and but in a heart that can feel. "for love is of God and everyone that loveth is born of
God and knoweth God, he that loveth not knoweth not God FOR GOD IS LOVE

respectfully yours in Jesus

ravenloche

Nicely put.  :D

AMEN RAVENLOCHE!

Brother, it's great to hear from you. I give thanks that our works have nothing to do with obtaining or maintaining Salvation. The Perfect and Completed Work of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS is our Salvation. We have nothing of any worth to add to the Perfect Sacrifice of JESUS CHRIST. Our good works are nothing but our expressions of love and appreciation for what JESUS CHRIST has already done and completed most perfectly.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Brothers and Sisters,

Performing good works and/or obeying the Law has never Saved a single person, nor have these things maintained the Salvation of a single person.

GOD will judge our good works for rewards that have nothing whatsoever to do with Salvation. The Bible instructs us to perform good works and defines what GOD will consider to be good works. Good works are part of our personal relationship with GOD, but they don't result in Salvation or loss of Salvation. Good works are also part of our living testimony before men. There are many areas of the Bible that instruct us and exhort us about what to do and how to live as Christians. In fact, there are instructions for every area of our lives. These ARE NOT Salvation issues, rather they are ways that "our joy might be more full" as Christians. Fulfilling these instructions as Christians effects everyone around us and is a "reasonable service" for GOD.

Brothers and Sisters, there is NO glory in Salvation for man - all Glory MUST and does go to GOD. Mankind will never have anything to brag about - ZERO! If we Glory in anything it MUST be in CHRIST!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Galatians 2:16 NASB
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Romans 3:19-28 NASB
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 4:1-6 NASB
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Galatians 3:2-3 NASB
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 NASB
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Amen Brother Tom.

I voted NO, salvation comes only through accepting the free gift of God. If we do not accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, no amount of good works can save us. Of course this does not mean that if we see a brother or sister in  need  we shouldn't help them, we should show the love that we receive in the fruits of the Spirit when we receive Jesus into our hearts. But good works alone will NOT save us.

Once we receive Jesus as our Savior our hearts are changed and we do good works not because we want salvation, but because we have the love of the Holy Spirit. We do it not to be praised or receive recognition from others. We shouldn't even let anyone else know that we are doing it, God will be our rewarder.

Mt 6:1 ¶ Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. (KJV)

Mt 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (KJV)

Mt 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: (KJV)

Mt 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. (KJV)

Salvation

 Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
 Ac 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 Ac 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
 Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

AMEN SISTER MARIA!

If any Christian stops and considers what GOD has given us and what JESUS CHRIST did on the CROSS for us, the result should be a heart overflowing with gratitude.

GOD tells us that our good works must be motivated by love - not duty. For the same reasons, GOD tells us that our good works must not be done for personal recognition before men. These types of works will be burned up.

Most Christians don't give a second thought to rewards that are over and above what GOD has already done for us. We also don't do good works for rewards. We do good works because we love GOD and love others. Any other motive will cause the work to be burned up. If we consider the Promises of GOD for Eternity, what more could we possibly ask of GOD? BUT, GOD has told us there is more in this short life and for Eternity to come.

This does NOT mean that GOD will answer all of our prayers in this short life, but HE will hear our prayers and answer those that are within HIS Will for us. Whatever our circumstances are in this short life, our hearts should be full of love and gratitude for what GOD has done for us. What GOD gave us is priceless, and we can't ever repay HIM, so Salvation is NOT on the installment payment plan.

For our part, our good works should make us feel good because we are loving and helping someone other than ourselves. It must be done gladly and with love because anything else will be burned up.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Timothy 2:1-3 NASB
You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

Good works to obtain salvation? NO! Jesus is the only name given that we might be saved by...
Good works to keep your salvation? Yes! Without them our Faith is Dead...
Without  good works for us WHO are allready saved, Our Faith is Dead!
YLBD
P.S
If our faith is dead so are we....

Good works are a result of obtaining and maintaining salvation. Works are the fruit of salvation, the proof so to speak that one is saved not one that must be done to either achieve nor maintain. It is Christ that achieved salvation for us and it is He who keeps us not through any works that we may do.

2Th 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

2Ti 1:12  For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Jud 1:24  Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


The fruit of the Spirit, not the works of men.


Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The Book of James is an oft misunderstood teaching. To many it appears that the author is supporting the teaching that works are necessary to maintain salvation. This is not what the Book of James is telling us. It is telling us that works are a result of salvation that we will have the desire to do these works. That works are an outward expression of the inward faith.

Note how James says "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith. This is telling us that it does not matter what a person says that there will be those that may profess faith but do not truly have that faith. We see this throughout the world today in people that profess faith in God yet do not show the fruit of the Spirit.

If we had to rely on works to maintain salvation then no one would be able to enter Heaven for no one has been able to maintain righteousness accept for Christ.

 

Brothers and Sisters,

Many Scriptures already posted in this thread bluntly state that the good works of man have NOTHING to do with Salvation and NOTHING to do with keeping Salvation.

The ONLY good works that apply to Salvation at all are the Good Works completed most Perfectly by JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS.

It's the ultimate vanity for a man to think that he or she can add anything to the Perfect and Completed Work of JESUS CHRIST. It's as if some people are saying that CHRIST didn't pay enough and they have something to add. NO! - We don't have a single thing to add. Salvation is a GIFT through Faith in JESUS CHRIST. If Salvation had to be paid for, ONLY JESUS CHRIST could pay the price. This is why JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY way to Heaven.

The PRIDE of man says "I must pay something". The WORD OF GOD says you have nothing worthy to pay with! It's really just as simple as that.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 2:13-17 NASB
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Hi Everyone
I'm talking about the works of (spiritual) Faith, Not works of the Flesh...
Like the work of (spiritual) Faith that saved the theif on the Cross next to our Lord, He was without works of the Flesh, But his (spiritual)Faith(believeing that JESUS was/is the Christ) and confessing that with his mouth saved him, Just like it does for all of us too...
Like the work of Faith Abraham showed when he was Willing to sacrifice(kill) his son Issac, Believeing in God...
Although Abraham's Faith also had a Physical Faith also, Because he Actually bound and was about to Kill Issac When
God told him to stop, I believe now that you will hold nothing from me, Not even your own Son Issac...
And Abraham was then told By God, that he is A Freind because of his Faith...
This is Probably the Best Example that I can Give you:

Do you think that Abraham would have still  been called the Freind of God,
IF he would have only had(Spiritual ) Faith And Not to have Followed it up by (physical) Faith By binding Issac
and about to Kill him?
YLBD
P.s
Maybe it's this type of forum, I seem to be misunderstood on every reply?

Hello Brother Duane,

This question has nothing to do with the type of forum or which man said what, rather what GOD has bluntly said in HIS WORD. There isn't any misunderstanding at all. We either believe what GOD says or we don't, and it's really just that simple. Believing what GOD Says IS OUR FAITH! There isn't any "either", "or", or "follow-up". It's man who wants to add to or take away from GOD'S WORD. GOD gave us HIS Plan of Salvation very simply and bluntly - simple enough for a child to understand. Good works are NOT and have never been required for Salvation or to maintain Salvation. At the moment of Salvation GOD gives us Promises that are Eternal, and we should know that GOD always keeps HIS Promises.

GOD tells us that we have Eternal Life at the moment of Salvation, and we can either believe what GOD says or reject it. GOD also tells us that we are Baptized into the BODY OF CHRIST right then, our hearts are sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT as a pledge of GOD'S Promises, and the HOLY SPIRIT comes to live in our hearts. There are many other Promises made by GOD right then at that moment, and we can either Believe GOD or reject what GOD plainly tells us. GOD'S WORD hasn't changed, so it isn't a matter of what's said or not said on this forum. It's a matter of what GOD'S WORD plainly and bluntly states. We can believe it or reject it, and it really is just that simple.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

As Christians good works are not a requirement of salvation. However, I have found that good works become a way of life. When you have faith and give your self to  Jesus, and you spread the word of salvation, helping others becomes a way of life. The little things like kind words mean so much to the sad and lonely people, the giving of food or toys to the poor. Volunteering at your church or in your community means more than you may know. Even coming to this website or others where you join in on the posting or chat, helps those who maybe be housebound or just in need of a friend. Big or little things done, without any thought of "what's in it for me", are the good works that make people who are watching us, and the way we live our lives, understand and sometimes accept Jesus into their lives and hearts. So good works are not required for our salvation, but good works can make as better people and better Christians.

Amen Islandboy!

It would be hard to imagine a Christian without thanks for what GOD has done for us. It would also be hard to imagine a Christian without love and gratitude to JESUS CHRIST. As Christians, we have more than just a good idea about what JESUS CHRIST has done for us, so it is a natural thing for us to show our love to GOD in whatever manner we can. Acts of love, worship, praise, and thanks are among the very few things that we can give to ALMIGHTY GOD that HE appreciates. After all, HE already owns the universe. Sister, you have a beautiful description of what GOD wants from each of us, and we don't have to be wealthy in the material things of this world to give them to our KING.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

Littleboy,

I heard an old pastor put it this way once:

"We are saved by faith alone; but not by a faith that stands alone."

You mentioned a passage in your first post...


...but missed the phrasing.  That is, there is no mention of "works of faith."  Only "faith."  The only works mentioned are those of the Law.  It's neat, isn't it?  How Paul was "doing the work of the Lord" by persacuting believers for their faith, when he met Jesus?  Uniquely, Paul wasn't doing good works when he was saved.  And the good works he excelled in afterward were because of his faith and gracious salvation.  Cool!  We love Him because He first loved us.  We serve Him not to gain favor, but because of the gracious gift He has given we who are not worthy.  And He only asks that we believe.  Simple? Hardly.

He says His strength is sufficient.  Try believing that on your hospital bed at 3 in the morning at age 36 suffering from a heart attack.  If I believe, if I have faith, my works will reflect that belief.

He says He will never leave us nor forsake us.  Try believing that when your business is going down the tubes, your bills are rising but your checkbook balance isn't, and the phones keep ringing with calls from the bill collector's - and all you want to know is if He's there to hear you cry.  If I believe, if I have faith, my works will reflect that belief.

We work good works because we have a Father Who works good works.  We take after Him.   :)

AMEN BROTHER KEVIN!

Brother, I'll simply say that I BELIEVE more strongly now than ever. I believed before my times of trial, but things DID work out for my good. You're right about many things not being simple - GOD has to show them to us. GOD also gives us each other for prayer, strength, encouragement, and fellowship. Brother, please know that you're still in our prayers. As for the Promises of GOD, just say AMEN! and consider them DONE! If you get a chance, take a look at "The Faithful Promiser". They are quite old, but they are beautiful and TRUE. The Author is one of my favorites, John MacDuff.

The Faithful Promiser
http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=20300.0

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

Amen!  Thanks for the link Brother Tom.  I'll be reading that today.  And thanks to everyone for your continued prayers.  God is great!   :)

Good works should be a result of our salvation, they do not save us.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. "  Eph.2:8-9

But if  someone says they have faith, but don't have any good works, that would be cause to question if they ever really repented of their sin and turned the Lordship of their life over to Jesus Christ. True faith produces good works.

Okay I decided to finally answer this question............. I also voted No.

When we speak of works in the context of the Bible we mean specifically good deeds, not just any action but only those that line up with the Bible's definition of good. What often comes to mind are the 10 Commandments. These are great examples of “good works” in both man's view and God's. In God's mind good works are only those things that come from a right view of His character as seen in the Bible and revealed in Christ.

The world today views good works in a much more general way. They see them as anything that is considered kind, for the benefit of others, or anything selfless based on their own standard. This standard is based on either their own opinion or the opinion of their society and culture. But as we have seen, in God's eyes only those things which come from the character of God are considered good. God is the standard of all good works.

Christian doctrine of Salvation, being saved from the penalty of sin, the way of attaining it is only through faith. It is wholly apart from works of any kind. We must not, and ultimately cannot, work for salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; 9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

aith is God's appointed way of granting salvation, not works. It is, according to our definition of faith, a belief or trust in the promise or word of God regarding salvation. I simply believe in God's promise to give me salvation on His terms. Yet, it is not simply mental assent to the facts, for even the demons give assent to the facts.

James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. So do the demons believe and shudder [in terror and horror such as make a man's hair stand on end and contract the surface of his skin]!

It is the resting and placing of one’s confidence in the work that God has promised to do. In this way God is the one who receives all the credit for salvation. The origin and purpose of all faith and in all works is God, not us.

In our faith God is glorified because of our dependence on Him. (Ephesians 1:12) In good works He is glorified because they are only a result of His action in us. (Ephesians 2:10 - “we are his workmanship”) So we can see that God is both the source of faith and good works (He is the creator of them in us) and that He is the reason for faith and good works. He gets the glory for them all. Man has nothing to do with it other than to be the recipient of God's gracious gifts. God has engineered it so that He himself is the focus, He gets the glory and man is given the privilege to be a part of this, as this is His rightful due, as the Lord.

NO NO NO NO :o :o

But what about Matthew 25: 31-46 ?   What are 'the nations'  ?  ('Goyim' in Hebrew,  to Jews meaning those who are not part of God's chosen people).  Judaism has always been very compassionate of non-Jews, not condemning them for unbelief but saying that God deals with them mercifully in accordance to their adherence to the basic, natural law given to the sons of Noah. Which basically means that the 'goyim'  (which in the Matthew verse could mean non-Jesus-followers) are to be saved, or not, because of their works.

P.S.  I believe that Christians are saved by faith, and I am endlessly grateful to the Lord for this; my question concerns 'the nations'.

Yes, what we see in verse 32 of Matt chapter 25 is the use of the Greek word "ethnos" that was translated as "nations". This word was frequently used to mean a race of people. Not race as we understand it to mean in the modern word but one based on a group of people of the same habits or rituals or "tribe" specifically those of the gentiles.

This is because of the promises that God gave to Israel are separate from those given to the Gentiles. However it is still not the works of the law that save those of Israel but rather that of faith. As we see in the book of Hebrews that was written specifically to the Hebrew people that "the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did". Throughout the book of Hebrew we see the teaching that it is not works but that of faith in the hope to come, and that hope is the Messiah. The Hebrew people were blinded in part and did not see that the hope they were looking for did indeed already come but they will have their eyes opened and will see the truth in the end.

So in Matthew 25, why does the Lord specifically l ink feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, etc. with being blessed and inheriting the Kingdom, while those who did not do such things are told to depart into everlasting fire?  Were the good works of the first group the result of their faith?
I am not very clear on the difference between the judgment at the moment of bodily death,  and the Last Judgment.

Hi carlotta,

I have already answered you on this very subject in another thread but let me present it in another way.

Who that truly has the love of Christ within them could turn away those that are hungry, thirsty, naked, sick, etc if they had any means at all to take care of that situation?

Salvation is not dependent on works. Works are a result of salvation, the fruit of the Spirit. This is why we are told that we shall be known by our fruit.

Hello Carlotta,

GOD knows those who belong to HIM right now! It's really a very simple matter. The HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD lives in their hearts, and HE has sealed their hearts - setting them aside as a purchased possession and a pledge of the Eternal Promises of GOD. A Christian dying in this Age of Grace is absent from the body and present with the LORD. There is no condemnation in JESUS CHRIST. The Judgment a Christian waits for is for rewards - NOT damnation. A Christian dying in this Age of Grace appears before the BEMA Seat for rewards. A lost person dying in this Age of Grace waits and appears at the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT for damnation and punishment. The rewards for a Christian involve more than just Salvation - even though most Christians think of little else than Salvation. A Christian will answer for all of the good and the bad and may lose rewards for the bad, but Salvation will NOT be one of the things lost. Naturally, some Christians will receive many more rewards than others, and they will be Eternal.

Love in Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 5:5-8 NASB
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -- for we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 NASB
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.