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What is Robert Schuller 'rethinking'?
Crystal Cathedral conference accused of twisting biblical Christianity

It's an all-star conference set for the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, Calif., Jan. 17-19.

Former President George H.W. Bush will speak.

Chuck Colson will make a presentation.

Larry King will be there.

Rupert Murdoch will address attendees.

Ben Stein will appear.

And Kay Warren, wife of Saddleback Church mega-pastor Rick Warren, will join Robert Schuller, the white-haired, bespectacled purveyor of "possibility thinking."

What could such a diverse group have in common? What's the topic?

Well, it's a little vague.

It's called the "Rethink Conference," and Schuller promises 30 "Aha!" moments from the 30 different speakers confirmed for the event.

Not everyone is thrilled about this meeting of the minds. Some, including Christian author and former New Age devotee Warren Smith, suspect an agenda to subvert the church – to take the focus off biblical truth and absolutes.

"From my perspective as a former New Age follower, I believe that Robert Schuller's mission has always been to 'rethink' and 'change' biblical Christianity into something 'new' – as in New Age/New Spirituality," he says.

Smith's "Deceived on Purpose: The New Age Implications of the Purpose-Driven Church" documents Schuller's contacts and endorsements of New Age stars such as Gerald Jampolsky, Neale Donald Walsch and Bernie Siegel.

"As a former New Age follower I could hardly believe it," says Smith. "On October 17, 2004, more than 20 years after his first appearance on the 'Hour of Power,' New Age leader Gerald Jampolsky was once again Robert Schuller's featured guest. I was not surprised on one level, because I had always been aware of Schuller's affection for New Age teachings. What did surprise me was Schuller's willingness to still be so openly aligned with a veteran New Age leader like Jampolsky."

Smith says it was Jampolsky who first introduced him to "A Course in Miracles," the best-selling book New Age bible that taught him "there is no sin," "a slain Christ has no meaning" and "the recognition of God is the recognition of yourself."

All of Jampolsky's books, according to Smith, are based on "A Course in Miracles." But yet, there was Schuller on his TV show recommending all of Jampolsky's "fabulous" works. He even noted he sold some of them in the Crystal Cathedral bookstore. And, according to Smith, for awhile, Schuller even hosted "A Course in Miracles" study groups in his church.

It's not a one-way street, either, says Smith. New Age leaders like Walsch, author of the best-selling "Conversations With God," and Jampolsky go out of their way to praise Schuller, too.

"They know that Robert Schuller has always been open to spiritual compromise," he says.

According to Smith, Schuller has always "done a good job of softening up the church" for what he sees as unbiblical New Age ideas. And that's just what he expects the "Rethink Conference" is all about.

If indeed that's what the conference is all about, some other big names are going along for the ride. They include Christian pollster George Barna, former heavyweight champ George Foreman, American Center for Law and Justice founder Jay Sekulow, Gary Smalley and "The Case for Christ" author Lee Strobel.

"Never before have we gathered such dynamic leaders who will challenge us to think outside the box as we grapple with a changing culture and our response to it," said Schuller.

The conference will not only be attended by thousands at the Crystral Cathedral, but it will be telecast by satellite around the world by Church Communication Network, according to organizers.

"These culture pioneers know what is center-stage in our culture right now and also what is breaking on the horizon," says Rethink Conference executive director Bill Dallas. "This conference will confront outdated and pre-conceived ideas, offer new perspectives and open our minds to all kinds of possibilities that connect us with out shifting culture without compromising our core values."

Smith just wonders about those "outdated and pre-conceived ideas."

"The church does not need to 'rethink' and 'compromise' its God-given biblical doctrines to accommodate the world," he says. "It needs to rethink its willingness to follow worldly leaders like Robert Schuller."

It needs to rethink its willingness to follow Jesus Christ![/b]

I always knew there was something that bothered my spirit when he would come on the TV.  I would always change it.  But I have another question Pastor Roger.  Is there something I should know about Rick Warren and the Purpose Driven Life?  I read the book many years ago when it first came out and I have started reading it again.  should I not?
What's the scoop, the whole scoop and nothing but the scoop?

New Age churches...... "Aha!" no thank you.  I'd like to see Pastor John Hagee there................ ;D ;D ;D


AMEN!!

.. AMEN .. with him there someone at the Conference may hear the real Gospel and get SAVED!

I LOVE Pastor Hagee!

I guess Pastor Roger hasn't been back here today.  Could somebody else answer my question?  I'd really like to know.

The Purpose Driven Life and The Purpose Driven Church appears to be great on the surface. It has quotes and references from many wonderful preachers. Unfortunately it mixes in many new age teachings also of New Age leaders like Neale Donald Walsch, the Dalai Lama and Starhawk the witch. Many of the teachings are very subtle and unless one has experienced the New Age movement firsthand would more than likely not recognize the New Age terminology and teachings that are presented.

Rick Warren preaches against the fundamentals of the Christian Faith:

"Now the word “fundamentalist” actually comes from a document in the 1920s called the Five Fundamentals of the Faith. And it is a very legalistic, narrow view of Christianity… " Rick Warren

What Rick is referring to here is a series of books that were written in the 1920's due to so many churches moving into the early teachings that today are known as New Age teachings. These fundamentals are:

1. The Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:1; John 20:28; Heb. 1:8-9), the Creator God Himself (Col. 1:16; compare Gen. 1:1); Who "laid the foundation of the earth" (Heb. 1:10-12; compare Psalms 102:24-27).

2. The Virgin Birth (Isaiah 7:14; Mt. 1:23; Luke 1:27).

3. The Blood Atonement (Acts 20:28; Ro. 3:25; Ro. 5:9; Eph. 1:7; Heb. :12-14).

4. The Bodily Resurrection (Luke 24:36-46; 1 Cor. 15:1-4; 1 Cor. 15:14-15).

5. The inerrancy of the scriptures themselves (Psalms 12:6-7; Ro. 15:4; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20). Please note: this is NOT a reference to the "King James Only" debate; rather, this is a reference to people who claim to have revelations apart from the scriptures.

These books noted that disagreements are perfectly acceptable within the confines of Christianity just so long as these fundamentals were adhered to.

I'm sorry it took me so long. It has been a bit hectic here today. It took me almost 3 hrs to write that last post.  ;) ;D ;D

Thank you Pastor Roger!  I will put the book down.  I vaguely remember hearing of controversy concerning Warren quite some time ago but didn't know what it was about so I appreciate you filling me in!
I learn so much from your, Blackeyepeas and Dreamweaver's posts.  Thank you all!
Yvette  :-*

Hello Grammyluv,

I didn't know either. I spend the majority of my time with the Bible and rarely ever read anything else except Bible study helps. I also didn't know the full definition for "New Age". So, I'm behind the times. It sounds like it was a good thing that I missed it.   :D  I also remember some kind of controversy, but I didn't  understand what it was all about. If anything gets close to the definition given in this thread, I wouldn't have anything to do with it anyway.

I have read some news on one-world religions and serious compromises being made by many churches without much thought. As far as I'm concerned, there is no compromise possible with the Holy Bible. I'm glad that I read this thread because I really had no idea what the controversy was about. I'll give everyone a laugh on me. I thought that "New Age" had something to do with the power of positive thinking and had no clue about the rest of it. I just didn't have a reason to find out. I also have a huge list of things that I want to do with Bible studies. Otherwise, I don't do much reading. In case you're wondering, we do have electricity and indoor plumbing now.    ;D

(Small print:  I still won't spend much time on New Age stuff, even though I know what it is now.   ;D   I said that we have electricity and indoor plumbing - just no fixtures.   ;D  )

You're cracking me up you ol' Okie!
I did know about New Age but not much.  Only enough to stear clear.

lol  ...  electricity and indoor plumbing without the fixtures ...  I think that I've been there. It took a long time by mule train to get there.

The power of "positive thinking" is a part of the new age teachings. New Age is a conglomeration of many teachings that leave the teachings of God out of them, another gospel.

Boy does that sound familiar, positive thinking. ;)

Reminds me of the RBS ads on TV.  ;D ;D

If you're talking about Robert Schuller, I seem to remember advertising about some books he wrote on positive thinking. This was a long time ago, and I know that I remember some negative things said about the Crystal Cathedral in CU Christian News. I'm almost sure it had something to do with an elaborate play that was not appropriate at all for a church. Is this also the so-called church that voted on whether JESUS CHRIST is GOD or not? There is so much blasphemy going on in some churches these days that it's hard to keep up with all of it.

Regardless of what's going on in the world today, GOD'S WORD hasn't changed and JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS is still the most important event in the history of mankind. The GOOD NEWS of GOD'S Plan of Salvation is still the most powerful and precious message in existence. Let's forget all about man's labels, concepts, and theories for a minute. As Christians, just the knowledge that we belong to JESUS CHRIST should make Christians the happiest and most positive people on earth. It shouldn't make any difference if we are rich or poor in this short life because our Riches are in CHRIST for Eternity. Who has more reasons to be happy and give thanks than Christians?

Brothers and Sisters, we shouldn't pay more attention to a preacher because he has a big and fancy church building. We should measure what we listen to with GOD'S WORD, and turn them off if they contradict the teachings of the Holy Bible. If a preacher or pastor is preaching the Truth from GOD'S WORD, it wouldn't matter if church was being held in a corn field and the pastor didn't have the money to buy a suit. The TRUTH and Glorifying GOD is what matters.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 1:14-17 NASB
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'" For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

They may have done that also but it was the Presbyterian General Assembly that voted on that back in 2002.


That is an unfortunate fact.



Amen!

You are absolutely right Blackeye!   I am more likely to trust a preacher or teacher that says, "Don't take my word for it; check it out for yourselves!"  And then DO just that!

RobertSchuller is one who preaches postive thinking,much likeNormanVincentPeale..which has nothing to do with preaching the word..Mega Churches have been overrated and many who sit under these teachings do not know the word.. People want to hear what makes them important and that is dangerous...I know I may sound like a broken record...but we have to stay in the word and urge others to do the same...To be like the Bereans and look it up in the sciptures to know the truth..Many persish  for lack  of knowledge...The only positive thought anyone needs is the cross is still for today...

I was thinking of a forum. :'(

True that Sister!
By the way guys; What is RBS?

Royal Bank of Scotland. They have some ads on TV about the "power of thinking" but they "take action instead of just thinking".

 :D  I see that I misunderstood again. I looked at the subject of the thread and thought they were probably the initials of Robert Schuller. I've never heard of the Royal Bank of Scotland, so I guess that I haven't seen that advertisement. I do have thoughts against being negative and down in the dumps, but my thoughts are probably different than those who use the "Positive Thinking" tag.

As Christians, I'll just say that GOD has different plans for us. Many beautiful portions of the Bible teach us about joy and how we can make our joy more full. We have the knowledge of our hopes and promises from GOD. Study of the Holy Bible reveals more and more about our Spiritual Riches in CHRIST that should give us a type of joy that can't be taken away by the things of this world. If "Positive Thinking" is misused by the world, maybe Christians could use "GOD Thinking" in a good and Biblical manner.

We are exposed to many negative things every day, and we can choose to dwell on those things even if we can't change them. On the opposite side of the coin, we can feed on the Riches of GOD from HIS WORD and choose to dwell on good and positive things that are Eternal. There's an inexhaustible supply of good and joy in the pages of HIS WORD. If we are beginning to feel down, maybe it's a weakness caused by lack of Spiritual Food. It's time to go to GOD'S WORD.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 John 1:1-4 NASB
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life -- and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us -- what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

Galatians 5:22-25 NASB
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Isaiah 12:2-3 NASB
"Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; For the LORD GOD is my strength and song, And He has become my salvation." Therefore you will joyously draw water From the springs of salvation.

James 1:2-4 NASB
Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Philippians 1:3-6 NASB
I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, always offering prayer with joy in my every prayer for you all, in view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now. For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:1-2 NASB
Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.

Psalms 32:10-11 NASB
Many are the sorrows of the wicked, But he who trusts in the LORD, lovingkindness shall surround him.  Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous ones; And shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart.