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I keep hearing the word "omnipotent" being used when referring to God, which I have no problem with.

The reason I bring this up is because certain atheists keep saying things along the line of, "If you're God is omnipotent, why didn't he....."

It reminds me of the classic question, "If God is omnipotent, can He create a rock so big that He can't lift it?"

The question is:  can God do anything?

Here is some scripture to consider:

Hasn't He? What else should He do?  

Um, my point must not have been made very well.  I'm asking if he is completely omnipotent (ie. can do absolutely anything, with no boundaries) or not.

The question "If God is omnipotent, can He create a rock so big that He can't lift it?" makes no sense in a logically consistent world.  Assuming God wishes His creation to be logically consistant, then His actions within it must be logically consistant.  If He acts in a way that creates paradoxes then His creation is no longer logically consistent.  (In which case, any sort of reasoning at all becomes meaningless.)

This is true (and it sounded overwhelmingly intelligent at that), but it is not the point.  That question was just an illustration of the true question:  can God do anything (without boundaries)?

IMO, then, within creation God's actions must be consistent with the rules He has set for that creation.

Outside of creation: who knows what rules, if any, exist.

Ha, the ol’ rock lifting competition. A sport Atheists and Deitists and have battle with for ages. If he can‘t make it, he can’t do everything, if he can’t lift it, he can’t be everything.

I think the problem doesn’t lay in the question, but in the mind of the asker. Thing about it. HE IS GOD! He is the frikin creator of the Universe, for crying out loud! He invented DNA, ball-and-socket joints, and Chlorophyll. Modern science cannot create something as beautiful and as simple as a living butterfly out of scratch, God can. This is the God that figured out where to put each muscle on our body so you could type. I don’t think it is possible to fit him in our little box.

He does what he chooses to do, and he doesn’t do what he chooses not to do. Yes, God is omnipotent.

Ebia, your problem lays in logic. Not your logic per say, just logic in general. You are trying to comprehend God is your small, human mind. This is GOD we are talking about, not one of your little friends, he isn’t human. Logic contradicts, it is a basic fact of logic. No one EVER said his creation has to be logically consistent.

Yep, the old devil tried to tempt Jesus(who is God) to turn rocks into bread, just as difficult as creating one as large as the universe perhaps. The Lord's reply was to not tempt Him. It is a foolish test.

The scriptures themselves offer the only valid answer of His omnipotence and it is clear that He is.(Rev 19:6 is one that I have right now, but there are more.)

aw

Unbelievers, argue what is logical to them as being the truth, this is true if one lives by sight,

 and,

what they are unable to understand, because they see  not, they categories as illogical, as though this disproves the existence of the Creator.

It is just wishfull thinking....

Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.
Isa 40:26

What more can be said...

ro

Pet

There are some things that God cannot do because He has limited Himself in those areas. Omnipotence does not mean, as Petro stated, that God can do anything.

For example: He CANNOT lie, deny Himself, have respect of persons, and be tempted with evil- to name but a few.

aw

cannot, or chooses not to?  I think this is a bigger question than your off-the-cuff comment gives credit for.


what would it mean for God to deny Himself?


this is a euphamism, so what exactly do you mean by it?


that would be an ability of the tempter, not of God.

If creation isn't logically consistent, then there is no logic or reason.  In which case all debate or converstation is pointless.  We might as well assume, therefore, that creation is logically consistent.

He also moved the stone at the tomb.

God's ways are not man's!

In the context of scripture, it means for Him to not be faithful.
Actually, the Bible makes it clear that temptations are the result of our own desires.
We don't know who rolled the stone away, just that it was rolled away.

ALL of man's wisdom is but foolishness to God. He is infinite and we are finite.

There are several things that God has chosen to reveal about Himself that He cannot do. This, in no way, limits His omnipotence, but actually explains it. Psalm 119 lists some and other scriptures can be consulted as well. In His commentary on Himself, He declares, for example, that: 1. He cannot break His own law (Ps 119), 2. judge the righteous with the wicked (Rev 20), 3. Lie (Heb 6), and be unrighteous (Rom 9:14).
aw

OMNIPOTENCE, is not just  the realm of POWER but, AUTHORITY, also

"God cannot do because He has limited himself"

may be an assumption, which we make, If God has chosen; (as ebia says) to reveal his power as He has, to claim these are his limits is to ignore that He has broken those limits, when appearing to men in the form of a spirit and an angel,  even speaking to man from the burning bush.

Both His Power and Authority will accomplish His purposes, in the end.

And those who ask such questions, such as the one which Mr 5020, posted as Topic Starter, are ignorant, and silly to even ask such foolish question, since the answer is outside of their realm to comprehend and they only ask such things to engender confusion and strife.

Such a question only adresses the power end of His omnipotence, but ignores  His authority over all of His CREATION.

The Power revealed in scripture assures us, it has been demonstrated already in the creation, and scripture tells us, that He can be known, by it;

Rom 1
19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them.
20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

His AUTHORITY over ALL of that which He has created is unlimited also, and it gives Him the right to judge it; and this is revealed in wrath against ALL Ungodliness.

Rom 1
18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
 and,

Rom 9
22  What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

It is clear God, will not and cannot be painted into a box.

Can the finite created man judge the things of a infinte Creator.

Man sure seems to think so...

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.


Amen,


Blessings,
Petro

Logic isn’t always correct. If an Angel tries to take over Gods Kingdom, logic in our minds would dictate destroy him, or chain him to a wall, or do somethign to keep him from running close. Maybe even not making him in the first place, even, being the all knowning God he is. Our logic would dictate God made marijuana with THC and over 400 other chemicals for a reason. By our logic, to make weed wrong to use and illegal is like saying God made a mistake. Logic would dictate a lot of things, that doesn't make them right in Gods eyes. Logic is part of creation, but Logic to us isn’t necessarily logic to God. You can’t use logic to dictate Gods actions. He is on a whole other level.

Can God do anything?

quite simply: YES!!!

Miracles don't necessarly defy (genuine) logic.

I'm not talking about that kind of loose reasoning.  I'm talking about mathematically precise logic.  The kind of logic you are talking about - our everyday  reasoning - is based on partial information and vague steps in reasoning.  On the other hand, if true logic fails, then so does the vague sort.

I assume so, yes.  As far as I can see, we can't know this though, because we can't (by definition) reason about anything where logic doesn't apply.

Assuming that logic is part of creation, then it clearly doesn't apply to God outside of creation.  However, my suggestion is that if God acts logically inconstently within creation, I can use that one paradox to prove, with mathematical certainty, that you are a catipillar. (or any other arbitrary assertion I want to prove).  All reasoning becomes spurious because you can prove ANYTHING you want with absolute certainty from that one paradox.  Since God seems to want us to be able to operate in a logically consistent world then, I suggest He limits Himself to that which is logically consistent.  That doesn't remove the possibility of miracles, but it does remove the possibility of logically meaningless statements like creating a rock he can't move, or creating a square circle, etc.

I'm not dictating anything, I'm speculating.

.
We don't tempt ourselves though.  We are tempted by our own desires.  Presumably God doesn't have such inappropriate desires in the first place.

But we are talking about basic reasoning. That is the logic you started talking about in the first place, and that hasn't changed, we are still talking about it.



Yeah, you'd better assume so! I was quoting you, after all. ;D

That may have been what you were talking about, but it wasn't what I was talking about.

Please, show me the mathematically precise Logic in the post above. It is all basic reasoning in the post above. The post that started me on this whole logic trip.

Notice the word "about" in the above sentences.

yes, I did, as a matter of fact ;) But thanks for asking.