ChristiansUnite Forums

I am not here to offend, but to learn, so if you have anything negative to say to me, please think before you say it! Thank you:

Question number one: "Thou shalt not judge." This being believed, how come when I tell a Christian I am not a Christian, they tell me I am going to hell. I thought only God could judge me!

And question number 2 (I'll just leave it at this for now...): God gave his creations free will, correct? Well if you have to be a Christian (basically) to get into heaven, what if you choose another religion? You go to hell? Seems more like bribery to me: believe what everyone else believes, or suffer eternal damnation.

*shrugs*

Please help me understand! Again, not trying to offend so just teach me please. Thanks guys!

*MaLiFiCeNt* ???

The first question sounds like a personal problem to me. What are you doing that make them believe you are going to hell?

The second one, that is a fair statment. What can I say? 2+2=4. You can believe 2+2=5 all you want, you have the free will to believe 2+2=3, but that doesn't make it true.

Let us pray everyone practices what they preach.

God does judge through His word as does His people and His word says if you are not one of His you are going to the "Lake of Fire". So His believing Him can make such a judgement.

God gives only one way. If you choose another then your free will has betrayed you.

Your welcome.

P.S.

Are you related to this or does the "i" instead of "e" make it different????


****
ma·lef·i·cent
Pronunciation: -s&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: back-formation from maleficence
Date: 1678
: working or productive of harm or evil : BALEFUL

****Merriam Webster Online Dictionary

OK If you read carefully at what you wrote, it doesn't really make sense or it basically reinstates what I just said. Example:

"God does judge through His word as does His people and His Word says if you are not one of His you are going to the "Lake of Fire". So His believing Him can make such a judgement."

"So his believing him can make such a difference"--God believing in himself? Please clarify.

"God does judge through His word as does His people"--What does this mean? That his people can judge? Because it says that nowhere in the bible.

And "God gives only one way. If you choose another then your free will has betrayed you."

So basically I DON'T have free will then, unless of course, free will means "believe in God or burn in hell" which is NOT free will; it is in fact one or the other.


Thanks!

And Malificent is a name. That's all. I like the way it sounded and it is the name of a Disney character. That sounds personal to me. Don't take my name that far please it will make my head hurt!!
;P

love and light
malificent

“Eternal suffering for those to question Gods Eternal Love… BELIEVE OR DIE. Thank you, forgiving Lord, for all those Options”

-Bill Hicks

 ;D

LOL....LOL

That's what I mean! Doesn't it seem like that to anyone else?!

;)

love and light

Bill's assumption is that he was created to do whatever he wants. Men take horses they did not create, and breed them. God gives life and provides the stock. Men train those horses and expect them to obey, even though they had nothing to do with what God created. But if they expect a horse that God created to act the way they wish, does not God have the same right with what He created?

Do children have a right to choose other parents, to say to some drugged out bum on the corner that they don't even know, "You are my father"? Would that not completely offend those who do the same to God? Does not God have a right to be worshipped, by virtue of His creating those very beings? Who is man to argue with God?

Edited to correct very unfortunate typo.  :-[

Embarassment number three for Whitehorse today.  ::)

Yeah, but Bill is just a comedian, not a Theologian. He is looking at Christianity thru the eyes of a hurt soul, burned by the Fundamentalist church of today. Give him a cross and a candle, he could be a Catholic ;D

  Malificent--God's people are termed His "ambassador's." An ambassador, if faithful, does not declare his own message to the host country, but the message of his native country.
Similarly, Christians are to deliver to others not their own "opinions" (judgments) but the record of the written revelation in Scripture. Therefore, when someone declares that "unless you repent you will surely perish," a truth which applies equally to every creature, they are not speaking as a judge, but as a messenger of Him who is the judge. Likewise,
when the Scripture admonishes God's people to rebuke evil,
they are not to do so on the basis of THEIR judgment, but upon the basis of God's own judgment.
  The exhortation "judge not lest you be judged" therefore does not apply to those who are declaring judgments which God has already made, but to those who would have a censorious spirit toward others, think critically of others without basis, or make personal demands upon the conduct of others for which the Scripture gives no support.
  However, even though simply declaring God's judgment to others is not judging them, We need to be careful in how we speak to those who are not believers. The gospel message is not to unbelievers about moral issues. The message is about Christ. We are not the ones who convict of sin. That is the work of the Holy Spirit. If we attempt to do His work, we will offend listeners. Our job is not to confront people about sin, but to present Christ. Those obsessed with the sins of others don't understand that we are all guilty and all need Christ who alone has the remedy to our problems with sin.
  But if the issue of a certain evil arises in the normal course of a witness for Christ, it is not sitting in judgment to simply declare God's judgment on the matter; but it should be done by one who realizes that he himself is also far short of what he is supposed to be.

  Malificent--about judgment to hell. The truth of this matter is that God has already delivered His judgment concerning ALL of us. It is very common for people to imagine that just beyond death's dark horizon there is a gigantic balance scale.
supposedly, they soon end up before those scales. Good deeds are then placed on one side and bad deeds on the other. If their life measures up ok, they are accepted, but if the bad side of the scale is heavier, they are sent away.
  Guess what--those balance scales are not ahead of us. They are behind us. What I say to you applies equally to me and every other person. Those scales are behind us, and not one of us--not one of us--made it. God has already delivered His verdict concerning us--concerning ALL of us, and our situation is NOT pretty. Just as there is only one God who is the creator and judge of all of us, so also, there is only one God who can show mercy, and that God designed only ONE
way of redemption from our woeful estate. That way which He designed fully meets both all His requirement and all our need. Rejecting the only means by which He is pleased to remedy our woeful estate can only end in our destruction.

Malificent,

So His believing Him can make such a judgement.

Translation"

So God's people,(His), believing Him,(God), can make such a judgement.

God is just and lays down the law and judges by it. Not the law given to Moses but of faith in Jesus Christ through grace. God having revealed His will to man through His word so man can live by it and make judgements according to His way.

Excellent replies guys thanks so much. Now I understand where Christitans are coming from. Special thanks to Ralph I think you made it most clear. Than you thank you!!

;)

I"m sorry that person said to you that you were going to hell.
Before I became a christian, a "well meaning person" said that to me as well and it turned me right off.  It is basically true about it as Jesus said that no-one can enter the kingdom of Heaven unless they are born again.  I don't know about anyone else but I have found that saying something to a new or pre-christian can have a negative effect.

I can certainly see how someone wouldn't like hearing that. It surely isn't a pleasant reality. But people have to know the truth, even if they're turned off by it. That's why the Bible teaches it-if someone's house is on fire in the middle of the night, that's not welcome news. But if we don't tell that person, bang on the windows and wake the person up, the person will perish in the flames. And then we see God and He'll say, "Why didn't you warn this person of the fate awaiting him?" What can we reply?

Right, I understand. It just seemed confusing at first when everyone was like, "Don't judge!" Blah Blah... It seemed like the same thing to me. But now I understand! Yay!

:)

Yep I totally agree with you Whitehorse - I was meaning from my perspective that I have had people say to me before I became a christian that I was going to hell without actually witnessing to me about Jesus dying on the cross.  I think there has to be a balance of what we tell people.

Youchers! Makes me wonder if these people were even Christians! I'm very sorry to hear about what happened and I'm glad you were able to overcome it. Blessings to you.

M-
Are you saying that God can't pass judgement on you if you tell a lie? How about steal a dollar? How about cheat on your taxes? How about beat up your kid? How about milking the system for greed's sake. How about fornicating.
The thing with judging is attitude. Am I glad you are going to hell? Not at all. If you are in a raft heading for a fall and I warn you to get to shore, am i judging you?

To choose religion at all is a grave mistake. Jesus is not a religion. A religion has no power to give life. A religion is nothing more than a lifeless idol. Even Christianity is an idol. People seek happiness there but find only bondage. Jesus said I am come to give them abundant life. He also came to give freedom from sin and death. Jesus is a friend of sinners. He took our sin when he died on the cross. He rose again the third day to make us right. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. He loves you enough to warn you of the fall. He loves you so much that he suffered and died so that you can be in Him and live forever. Hell is real and so is death. But Jesus is real and so is life in Him.
Choose life.

asaph

Good day to you Asaph:

Much of what you said is arguable. It is things like what you have said that confuse me. Jesus himself is not a religion, yet he does belong to one. That's just they way it goes! I mean if he doesn't belong in Christianity, then where does he belong?

Also, you said something along the lines of if I was floating down the river and about to go over a waterfall that you would warn me. It is unnecessary. I know Christianity exists; who doesn't with all the churches everywhere and people trying to convert everyone into Christianity? In my mind, hell is inevitable if you want to view my future through Christian eyes. But you know why I'm not crapping a brick right now? Because IIII personally do not believe that hell exists. Here's how that is put together: It is MY life. If I don't believe in hell, there's no point in saying that it exists over and over and over to me. There is no way at all to prove that hell does exist, and this is true to matter what ANYONE says. We know that death exists because we see it. We do not know hell exists because we do not see it. So when you said hell is real, death is real, that is only partly true. So that being said, when you tell me that basically I will go to hell if I do not accept Jesus into my heart, and I don't believe in hell, there's no need to insist that I am going. And no matter what anyone says, unless you can dig a hole in the earth and reveal a firey chasm encapsulating tortured souls and the devil, sorry. There's no way I will believe.

AND furthermore, you said you felt sorry for me that I was going to hell. You were trying to warn me about hell, not judge me. But your statement in and of itself is judgmental. It became that way as soon as you said "you are going to hell". Anyone who tells me I am going to hell, no matter what form it's in, is being judgmental. This is also just a fact of life.

So continue to worry that I am going to hell. I will have no worry about it and live without worries such as: I can't have premarital sex. I can't say certain things because they are blasphemous. I can't sleep in because I have to go to church. My life is without worry because I do not believe in hell. Your life is full of worry because hell exists in the mind of a Christian. Does that make sense as to why there are so many non-Christians?

Again, PLEASE do not take this the wrong way I am only voicing what I believe, just as you have. If someone finds something wrong with what I have said above, then you have a problem with both sides of reality, and need to do some soul-searching. That is the only judgment I will pass.  :)

Malificent,

You thanked Ralph for explaining the judgments of a Christian.  The judgments of a Christian aren't his/hers, but those judgments that God has already passed.  For example:


Those who, as you have said with your own words have accepted Jesus as their Savior, have their names written in this book.  If not there, then God's judgment has already been passed.  Asaph merely pointed that out.  Here's the crux of the situation: pointing that out is offensive!  Especially when the solution is not given.  Asaph gave the basis of that solution.  The solution is first to realize that Jesus isn't a religion.  Christianity is a religion.  Jesus didn't die so that we could have church on Sunday, or abstain from sin.  Jesus died for a relationship.

Sin is whatever goes contrary to God.  Some sins we don't even have to wonder if they are sins.  Some we don't even know are sins.  Sin separates us from God.  Sin prohibits a relationship with God.  Moreover, sin is judged by God and God alone by death.  You said that we all know people die.  God says that we're all born dead in sin:


Hey, that's me too!  I'm no better!  For me to tell you that you're a sinner and I'm not would be the pot calling the kettle black.  But for me to tell you what God calls you and me is not judging...


So according to God we both are sinners.  That holds little importance if it was left at that.  But God didn't leave it at that...


You said it yourself that we know people die, but what else does God say about death?


To die, dead in sin, is to face the judgment of Hell.  That is what God has said.  Do you believe that God said that in His word?  I truly am not being antagonistic here.  I'm just asking.   :)

If you do believe, then this is a dire straight to be in to be sure!  What then did God chose to do to remedy this?


...and...


What did God do?  He paid our penalty for our
sin on the cross.  He died for me.  He died for you.  Why?


Because it was His joy to do so.  He loves me enough that He died for me.  He loves you enough that He died for you.  That isn't about religion.  It's about a relationship based upon a love that sacrifices everything for the benefit of another.  What's more, the eternal life He offers isn't a weak offering.  It is based upon His very resurrection.  He lives that we might live.

How does one then get this free gift?


We first realize that we can't work for it.  It doesn't matter what I do or do not do.  It only matters that I understand it is God's doing, God's giving and my obedience in accepting.  What do I mean by that?  I mean that right now you have a chance to accept this gift.  If you have any inkling that this is truth; if you have any sorrow for sin; if you have any persuasion to change your mind about any of this - then God is giving you the opportunity to change.  Change what?  Your mind.  You change what you have believed.  Instead of not believing, you believe.  You accept the gift that God has given.  Your heart.  Whatever holds your heart in opposition to God you exchange.  God becomes all when you accept the gift He has given.  Your will.  Your mind may agree.  Your heart may tell you that this is what you need, but your will is what may keep you from accepting this gift.  You change your will, and God changes you...


This is alot!  But now, you have a solution.  The only difference between me and you, is that I'm a sinner saved by grace.  What will you do?

Christ's,

Kevin

This is alot!  But now, you have a solution.  The only difference between me and you, is that I'm a sinner saved by grace.  What will you do?

Christ's,

Kevin

Amen Kevin

Brother Love :)

  Malificent--You say that in your mind hell is inevitable in the view of the christian mind. Not so, Not so. Nobody makes it on their own. The best get no closer to making it on their own than the worst of us. But Christ's own righteousness is freely given to ALL who turn away from hoping in themselves to rely upon what He has done. The same righteousness by which He triumphed over the grave is given as a robe of righteousness
for those who depend upon Him to wear as they stand before Him for judgment. How about THAT? Will THAT do? I'll say it will.

The only issue I have at this point is trying to understand what has been said. Almost everyone is using these 40-word sentences. Break it down into stupid people terms so that I can understand it. Plus I can't understand scriptures with all the "thees" and "thous" and "smiteths" and "smoteths".

*pop*

lol

Hmmmm...stupid people terms?  Ooooohhhh..."Me-speak!"  Got ya!  Ok  try this:

1.  God says that you're a sinner ( Here's a verse with no "thee's" "thou's" or "slewings"  :) ):

- This means that when God measures how good we are, He measures us by how good He is.  And we all come up on the short end.

2.  God says that being a sinner earns us death:

- This means that in being a sinner we earn God's judgment of death for our sin.  And yet...

3.  God says that Jesus took those earnings on Himself when He died for our sins:

- This means that God loves us enough to pay the price for us.  I know you may be thinking, "Why not just not judge people to death?"  Because He's God!  Doing so would be His saying that sin was ok.  Instead, He took the earnings of our sin and put them on His Son Jesus on the cross.  So how do we take this "free gift?"

4.  God says that if we believe Him, change our minds and hearts about Him and our sin, and ask Him to forgive us that He will save us:

- If we do this, then...

5.  God says that we have eternal life:


Does this help?

It isn't a judgment about whether you are going to heaven or hell. It's simply a reality. If you don't know Christ, you can't find heaven. It's just like me saying that if I look for candy in a clothing store, I'm not going to find it. It's not a judgment, but a simple reality. How you feel about that reality is up to you.

  Friends, Malificent has already linked an enjoyment of her present lifestyle with estrangement from God. That is in her favor. Many don't have that much understanding, so let's not
discount her understanding that much.
  The primary first proclamation concerning Christ was that He would save His people from their sin. Malificent's understanding that is more valuable to her than any threats of hell that you can hold over her. He did not come to save people from hell. He came to deliver us from evil. How important that is may be guessed from the extent God was willing to go to to deliver us. If any of us believe that the benefit Christ came to offer is escape from the flames, there is a real possibility that such a person doesn't understand
the gospel as well as Malificent.
  And BTW--to any who have questioned her name: that is a  wonderful name. Check your dictionary.

  However content with their present life someone may be, they should never let that contentment keep them from considering the possibility that things can change suddenly.
  In Psalm 73, the psalmist was envious of those who prospered even though they had not turned to God. Then God opened his eyes--"...then I understood their end. Surely you set them in slippery places; you cast them down to destruction. Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors. As a dream when one awakes, so, Lord, when you awake, you shall despise their image." (vv.17-20)
  That realization ended the Psalmists envy of them because
he knew that unlike those in slippery places, he was continually with the Lord who held him by his right hand.(v.23)
  The only reason the Psalmist was not in slippery places himself is because he was always with the Lord who was holding his hand--not because he in himself was better than those who were always in danger. Let no one have a proud look--any difference in people is strictly from God who shows mercy. Therefore, the Psalmist gives all praise and glory to God for his better footing: "He also brought me up out of a horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my steps." (Ps. 40:2)
  The slippery places refers to the nature we were all born
with--the adamic nature and its natural bent to evil. We were all born with it, none of us in ourselves better than the next.
I was born with the same nature Hitler and Stalin, and every other evil person was born with. It is God who makes men to differ--not what they are in themselves. That I did not do as Hitler or Stalin is not to my credit, but it is because of God's goodness to me. Want to know what Jeremiah meant when he said, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked."? Look at history and see in it the catalog of evils that human nature in itself is capable of; but "who can know it?" We cannot know it because God in mercy and in common
grace even to unbelievers holds people up, preventing their fall into the sins cataloged in human history.
  But unless people have been taught by Him to prefer Him over evil, He may awaken and despise their image, leaving them to plummet suddenly into depths which earlier they would not have cared to venture into. When the publican beat upon his breast and cried out, "God me merciful to me the sinner" he did not have hell in mind, but the morass of wickedness which Jesus saves His people from. Those who truly turned to Jesus were among the worst of men. They sought deliverance not from hell, but from sins which were destroying them.