ChristiansUnite Forums

Homosexuals blast surgeon general nominee 
'He has a pretty clear bias against gays and lesbians'

President Bush's nominee for surgeon general, Kentucky cardiologist Dr. James Holsinger, has come under fire from gay rights groups for, among other things, voting to expel a lesbian pastor from the United Methodist Church and writing in 1991 that gay sex is unnatural and unhealthy.

Also, Holsinger helped found a Methodist congregation that, according to gay rights activists, believes homosexuality is a matter of choice and can be "cured."

"He has a pretty clear bias against gays and lesbians," said Christina Gilgor, director of the Kentucky Fairness Alliance, a gay rights group. "This ideology flies in the face of current scientific medical studies. That makes me uneasy that he rejects science and promotes ideology."

Holsinger, 68, has declined all interview requests, and the White House had no immediate comment Wednesday.

Holsinger served as Kentucky's health secretary and chancellor of the University of Kentucky's medical center. He taught at several medical schools and spent more than three decades in the Army Reserve, retiring in 1993 as a major general.

His supporters, including fellow doctors, faculty members and state officials, said he would never let his theological views affect his medical ones.

"Jim is able, as most of us are in medicine, to separate feelings that we have from our responsibility in taking care of patients," said Douglas Scutchfield, a professor of public health at the University of Kentucky.

In announcing Holsinger as his choice for America's top doctor May 24, Bush said the physician will focus on educating the public about childhood obesity.

The previous surgeon general was Dr. Richard Carmona, whose term was allowed to expire last summer. Carmona issued an unprecedented report condemning secondhand smoke.

Holsinger received his bachelor's degree from the University of Kentucky, master's degrees from the University of South Carolina and Asbury Theological Seminary and a doctorate and medical degree from Duke University.

Scutchfield said Holsinger has advocated expanded stem cell research, in opposition to many conservatives, and also has shown political courage in this tobacco-producing state by supporting higher cigarette taxes to curb teen smoking.

Gov. Ernie Fletcher commended Holsinger for working to fight obesity and other health problems in this Appalachian state, which ranks near the bottom in many categories. "He helped get the ball rolling and focusing on healthy lifestyles," Fletcher said.

As president of the Methodist Church's national Judicial Council, Holsinger voted last year to support a pastor who blocked a gay man from joining a congregation. In 2004, he voted to expel a lesbian from the clergy. The majority of the panel voted to keep the lesbian associate pastor in place, citing questions about whether she had openly declared her homosexuality, but Holsinger dissented.

Sixteen years ago, he wrote a paper for the church in which he likened the reproductive organs to male and female "pipe fittings" and argued that homosexuality is therefore biologically unnatural.

"When the complementarity of the sexes is breached, injuries and diseases may occur," Holsinger wrote, citing studies showing higher rates of sexually transmitted diseases among gay men and the risk of injury from (a homosexual lifestyle).

Holsinger wrote the paper at a time when the church was one of numerous denominations considering a more open stance on allowing practicing homosexuals to join. It took that step in 1992, saying gays are of "sacred worth" who should be welcomed. Practicing homosexuals are still prohibited from serving in the clergy.

Gilgor, the gay rights activist, called the paper "one twisted piece of work."

As for the congregation Holsinger helped establish, Hope Springs Community Church, the Rev. David Calhoun told the Lexington Herald- Leader last week that the Lexington church helps some gay members to "walk out of that lifestyle."

The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, which is opposing the nomination along with the Human Rights Campaign and other local and national groups, calls such a practice "nothing short of torture" for gays.

Phyllis Nash, who worked under Holsinger for nine years as vice chancellor at the medical center, said the views he took in church appear at odds with his professional actions.

She recalled a women's health conference that Holsinger helped organize in 2002 that included a session on lesbian health. Despite complaints from some lawmakers, Holsinger insisted the session go forward, she said.

"His reaction in support could not have been any stronger," Nash said. "He said, as health care providers, we have to be prepared to meet the health needs of anyone who walks into the door."

Yep, the truth can be torturous.

Which is why the Bible says, it is an abomination in Gods eyes.

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Whoever replaces Bush will open the door of hell in the acceptance of the gay and lesbian party...the gay issue is big and what once was filth is now given sympathy.  The right to same sex marriages is going to come out in the coming election...I just do not think we are going to have any one who is a christian to be the head of our country...I see the decline of a government under God...As Abraham prayed for Lot...we will pray for our nation...and we will be persecuted for offending many as John the baptist was beheaded for offending...

Sincerely...

Maryjane

We might also beheaded as well,  in the future.

Only those that live after the Rapture happens.  That will happen in tribulation, Pizza Mahal.

Well Pizza...that is true...but until then...we have work to do...

AMEN sister AMEN

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Pizza_Al/emotions/yabai.gif) I thought rapture happens after tribulation or before God Wraths.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Pizza_Al/emotions/huh.gif)

Here is a time line, I have worked out following the Bible.  It may not happen the way I think but, I'm 95 percent sure of this.

From my webpages, Christianty Rocks link (http://www.freewebs.com/christanityrocks/misstherapture.htm) this is about 3/4 the way down the page.

Ezekiel 38 & 39 happen before, or right after the Rapture.  Only the Father knows when the Rapture will happen, though we do have clues we will not go through tribulation.

The Anti-christ makes a seven-year covenant with Israel Daniel 9:26-27
Two witnesses begin their three and a half year evangelistic ministry Revelation 11: 3-6
Israel lives in peace and rebuilds under the patronage of the Antichrist Ezekiel 38:8
The world church (one world religion) dominates religion and the Antichrist Revelation 17
Temple sacrifices are instituted  Revelation 11: 1-2
First Seal - The Anti-christ becomes a world leader for peace with the support of his confederacy Daniel 9:7, 20, 24; Matthew 24: 4-5;  Revelation 6: 1-2; 13:5, 7; 17:12-13
Second Seal - War   Matthew 24:6-7; Revelation 6:3-4
Third Seal - Famine  Matthew 24:7b; Revelation 6:5-6
Fourth Seal - Death  Matthew 24:7-8; Revelation 6:7-8
Fifth Seal - Martyrdom of converted multitudes Matthew 24:9-10; Revelation 6:9-11; 7:9-14
Sixth Seal - Cosmic disturbances and worldwide fear of divine wrath Matthew 24:15-21; Revelation 6:12-17
144,000 Jews are saved and sealed Revelation 7:1-8
A large multitude of people are saved Revelation 7:9-17
Seventh Seal - Silence = Seven Trumpet judgments Revelation 8: 1-2
This is the first 3.5 years.

Middle of the Tribulation
Satan cast down from heaven by Michael (Revelation 12: 7-12)
The Anti-christ breaks his seven-year covenant with Israel (Daniel 9:27)
The 10 kings united under the Anti-christ destroy the world church (Revelation 17: 16-18)
The beast martyrs the two witnesses (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 11:7-12)
The ''Abomination of Desolation'' (Daniel 12:11)

Second Half of Tribulation.
The Anti-christ is revealed as ''the man of lawlessness'' (2 Thessalonians 2: 3, 8-9)
The image of the Anti-christ is set up for worldwide worship and promoted by the false prophet ( Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24: 11-12, 15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, 11; Revelation 13:4, 11-15)
the mark of the beast is used to promote worship of the antichrist (Revelation 13: 16-18)
First Trumpet - Hail and fire mixed with blood, and 1/3 of earth's vegetation destroyed (Revelation 8:7)
Second Trumpet - 1/3 of sea becomes blood, 1/3 of marine life killed, and 1/3 of ships destroyed (Revelation 8:8,9)
Third Trumpet - 1/3 of fresh water poisoned (Revelation 8:10,11)
Fourth Trumpet - 1/3 of sun, moon, and stars darkened (Revelation 8:12)
An eagle proclaims three woes which are the last three trumpets
Fifth Trumpet - (First Woe) - Demon locusts attack and torment unbelievers for five months (Revelation 9:1-12)
Sixth Trumpet - (Second Woe) - 4 angels are loosed who kill 1/3 of mankind; 200 million man army assembled (Revelation 9:13-21)
Seventh Trumpet - (Third Woe) - The seven bowl judgments (Revelation 11:15-19)
First Bowl - Boils inflicted on those who had the mark of the beast or worshiped his image (Revelation 16:2)
Second Bowl - All seas turn turned into blood and every living creature in the sea dies (Revelation 16:3)
Third Bowl - Rivers and springs turn to blood (Revelation 16:4-7)
Fourth Bowl - Sun scorches men with oppressive heat (Revelation 16:8,9)
Fifth Bowl - The kingdom of the beast is plunged into utter darkness that causes continual pain (Revelation 16:10,11)
Sixth Bowl - Euphrates River dries up to facilitate the movement of the confederacy's army (Revelation 16:12)
Seventh Bowl - Earth is shaken by tremendous earthquakes, great noises, and huge hailstones, and the cities of the world will be destroyed (Revelation 16:17-21)
The last 3.5 years of Tribulation.

End of Tribulation
The armies from the East and the North move toward Palestine (Daniel 11:44; Revelation 16:12)
Jerusalem is ravaged (Zechariah 14:1-4)
Commercial Babylon is destroyed (Revelation 16:19; 18:1-3, 21-24)
Signs appear in the earth and sky that signal the beginning of the end (Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:10, 30-31; 3:15; Matthew 24:29)
The Messiah (Jesus ) returns to earth with the armies of heaven to destroy the godless army of the antichrist (Matthew 24:27-31; Revelation 19:11-16)
Armies of the earth unite at Armageddon against Jesus and the armies of heaven (Joel 3:9-11; Revelation 16:16; 19:17-19)
The armies of the earth are destroyed by Jesus (Revelation 19:19, 21)
The Anti-christ and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 19:20)
Satan is bound for 1000 years, and tossed into the lake of fire. After the time is up,Satan will be released for a short while. (Revelation 20:3)

Both of my webpages are in my sigline.  There is alot of information, you can us for the Glory of God.

THX!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Pizza_Al/emotions/banzai.gif) Sorry for taking your time, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Pizza_Al/emotions/sigh.gif)

I will add this to my scrapbook(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/Pizza_Al/emotions/kukukuh.gif)

Pizza...That's cute...

Brothers and Sisters,

I think there are several pretty good reasons to believe that the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST will be Raptured before the Tribulation period. We have several pretty large threads on the forum discussing just about all views of this.

I won't argue about this, but I'll give a couple of simple reasons why I think that the Rapture is before the Tribulation Period. If you want tons of details, there's enough for years of study already on the forum.

1 - THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is not appointed unto wrath - rather for deliverance.

2 - It's fairly clear in Daniel and other portions of Scripture that the Tribulation Period was determined against Israel, not THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. The two are completely separate, and both have specific Promises that GOD will fulfill.

3 - The "Great Restrainer" will have to be removed before many of the evil things in the Tribulation Period can take place. The "Great Restrainer" is THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, and THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WAS GIVEN TO THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD lives in our hearts.

4 - Here's one to think about. a) No power in the universe can break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT on the hearts of Christians. b) Those who take the Mark of the Beast in the Tribulation Period will be LOST and damned to hell. c) The Beast can't break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, so THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST will already be gone and Home in Heaven.

5 - The Rapture and the Second Coming of CHRIST are two separate events. At the Rapture, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST (living and dead) is caught up to meet the LORD in the air. The LORD doesn't come all the way down to earth at the Rapture. The SECOND COMING OF CHRIST is in GREAT WRATH all the way down to the earth. We already know beyond any doubt or argument that the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST is at the end of the 7 year Tribulation Period.

There are many other reasons, but this is more than enough for thought. On the opposite side of the coin, there are others with fairly reasonable arguments that the timing of the Rapture could be different. There are three primary schools of thought about the Rapture:  1) Pre-Tribulation, 2) Mid-Tribulation, 3) Post-Tribulation. It's a great study and discussion, but it isn't something that Christians should argue about to the point of getting angry. I might add that there are some Christians who don't believe in a Rapture at all.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Hello Dreamweaver,

Brother, I wanted to add that I have copied your timeline from your web site and studied it. I think that you have done some excellent work. I think that I have about 400 years worth of study material on Bible Prophecy, so I've given up on studying everything in great detail. I'm relatively sure that I won't physically live long enough or JESUS CHRIST will come for us first.   ;)

It is a major topic among debators as well as the debate Grace vs Law...Non christians will debate Revelation and it is hard for them as they debate what they do not know...The fact is...He is coming..!!

AMEN! And a wondrous day that will be.

AMEN

Hello MaryJane,

It is somewhat funny that non-Christians like to debate portions of the Holy Bible. Understanding of the Holy Bible many times requires the help of the Holy Spirit of God. That's why it is good for us to pray for help and guidance before we study our Bibles.

The twisted distortions that some of the lost use to attack Christians are amazing. This is especially true with their attacks against GOD from misunderstandings of the Old Testament. One of the statements I've heard many times is something like, "If there really is a GOD like that, I wouldn't worship HIM." YET, they worship men who are worse, and those men have no claim on being the MASTER AND CREATOR of the universe. Most of their attacks deal with punishments they feel are unfair, unjust, or too severe.

The reality is that it's quite reasonable for the MASTER AND CREATOR of the universe to make demands, state what HE wants, and command that HE Alone be worshipped as GOD. The word "command" is used in this situation as a directive. We should all know that GOD has sufficient POWER to force TOTAL obedience, and HE could have done that for the entire history of mankind. But, that was not HIS WAY.

YES, JESUS CHRIST is coming again, and it will be in GREAT WRATH. Evil will be crushed and every knee will bow to HIM. The Judgment for those who denied HIM will be most severe - eternal punishment. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF will be the JUDGE - TOTAL PERFECTION, RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND HOLINESS!

THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT will be a horrible time of TRUTH for evil, and nothing will remain hidden or unknown. The punishment will be everlasting, but there is something beautiful that came long before. JESUS CHRIST took our punishment in our place on the CROSS and HIS Perfect Sacrifice was offered to all men as a GIFT. Great hosts have refused that GIFT.

For Christians, the story is quite beautiful and different. First and foremost - there is NO CONDEMNATION for those who belong to JESUS CHRIST, and HE KNOWS who belongs to HIM. Our Judgment will be at the BEMA SEAT JUDGMENT, and it will be for REWARDS for good works done in HIS NAME according to HIS Purpose. This is a beautiful and stark contrast - HIS will be judged for REWARDS not PUNISHMENT. The rest of our PROMISES FROM GOD are just as beautiful:  1) "absent from the body, present with the LORD" at the time of our physical death;  2) A Glorified Body like the one JESUS CHRIST has at HIS Appointed Time;  3) An eternity of JOY with HIM and an end to tears, pain, and sorrow;  4) And the list goes on and on and on! These are just a few of the reasons why Christians should be the happiest people on earth - even during this short life here. This world IS NOT our HOME, and we are just temporarily using these bodies of clay - much like we would temporarily use a tent for shelter. Our CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 3:14 NASB  I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 4:8 NASB  Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

1 John 5:4-5 NASB  For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Romans 8:37-39 NASB  But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.  For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Revelation 21:3-4 NASB  And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

Good afternoon..BEP..

So true..Non christians want a soft place to fall even when they face what they themselves have caused their circumstances...Using what they believe to be the word of God without even knowing the word of God..using it to justify their own means...Then to turn around and blae God...God gives free will and it is what we do with that free will that counts...

It is so sad because the days are so short and those who do not know the love of God are in such darkness...Yes...God is a loving God...but He is a just God and He turns His face away from sin and droves of people believe God loves them too much to punish them with a place called hell and many believe there is no such place and all I can think is how can they afford to be wrong...Man's ideas are so far from God's..If it were so..then we would be the creator...but we are not and only the creator knows what is best for us and in that day...we will know His as He is...and those who He knows will rejoice throughout eternity with Him and once again God will walk among us...How I try to envision with my feeble mind this day after day...It is what keeps me going knowing that I am safe and secure in the love and in the arms of God..a Sovereign God who loves us so much He gives opportunity after opportunity to trust Him...

I love reading your post...I love that ther is a place where you can read the word that does not return void...

Rev. 19..

Hallelujah..salvation and glory and power belong to our God