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Title: The Beast is Here. Post by: Symphony on October 20, 2003, 09:23:40 PM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: nChrist on October 20, 2003, 10:18:33 PM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony, If so, that would also mean the time is near for Jesus to come. That will truly be a GLORIOUS DAY. If only that day could be TODAY! In Christ, Tom Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: twobombs on October 21, 2003, 02:24:15 AM Hey Symph, now I have a riddle for you :
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? The answer is hidden in : Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ebia on October 21, 2003, 02:44:33 AM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Petro on October 21, 2003, 03:16:24 AM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. The Beast is here? On another thread perhaps..does he have a wife?? or is he a she..?? Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: nChrist on October 21, 2003, 05:25:49 AM The Beast is here? On another thread perhaps..does he have a wife?? or is he a she..?? My Brother Petro, I know what you are saying. God's Grace will be more than enough for all of us. Love In Christ, Tom Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Brother Love on October 21, 2003, 06:45:13 AM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. LOOKING UP :) Brother Love :) Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on October 22, 2003, 06:36:24 PM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. Revelation 13 Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on October 22, 2003, 06:51:20 PM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. 21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. SPEAK OUT! THERE IS: Victory in Christ! Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Symphony on October 22, 2003, 11:27:41 PM I mean a "generic" beast. Implying mostly, bureaucracy--not just in gov't, but in commerce, and the church--all three. Yes, it was around milleania ago. And Yes, technically, the imagery of Rev. seems to imply gov'ts are the beast, and commerce and the church are a duplicitous Harlot(riding on the back of the beast--commerce is dependent on govt in the same way the church is). And maybe to answer twobombs riddle, the harlot "trys" to make war on the beast? I'd have to look closer at your riddle. There is enmity between all three, but mostly between the twin aspects of the harlot--commerce and the church, and gov't. Gov't "tolerates" the other two, and the other two "tolerate" gov't. Commerce and the church get along pretty well together(that's part of their problem). Title: Yessss!Its HELL-ery Clinton! n/t Post by: aw on October 23, 2003, 11:02:10 AM nt
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Mr. 5020 on October 24, 2003, 10:11:06 AM Hillary Clinton. Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village.
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on October 24, 2003, 04:43:49 PM Maybe it is Bushonomics!
Cut taxes, run up the national debt. OR: Cut income, increase spending! What a beast that is! Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Hitch on October 25, 2003, 12:52:58 AM Killroy WAS here...
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Symphony on October 26, 2003, 08:10:14 AM Hillary Clinton. Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village. I've been watching you, Mr. 5020 (http://channels.netscape.com/cp/crime/features/i/hillaryclinton40.jpg) :-\ Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on October 26, 2003, 06:14:20 PM Hillary Clinton. Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village. Killroy WAS here... I've been watching you, Mr. 5020 (http://channels.netscape.com/cp/crime/features/i/hillaryclinton40.jpg) :-\ Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Mozilla on October 27, 2003, 10:53:23 PM Hillary Clinton. Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village. I've been watching you, Mr. 5020 (http://channels.netscape.com/cp/crime/features/i/hillaryclinton40.jpg) :-\ Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on November 01, 2003, 07:17:41 AM Hillary Clinton. Has anyone ever read It Takes a Village. First of all, it takes a Mom and Dad. Sometimes "the beast" can be harbored by the village and it takes Mom and Dad to differentiate and keep the children from the harm of that part of the village.The interplay of the not beast part of the village does have much to do with the training and forming of children. However, God says Mother and Father are the prime instructors of their young. Raised up in the ways of God, not in the ways of Bill or Hillary. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Raphu on November 02, 2003, 07:08:21 AM I still kinda think that Islam is the beast and Mohammed the false prophet.
The United States and Britain gave life back to the beast of Islam by giving it oil money and developing its oil field. This is the beast that looks like a lamb but speaks like the dragon with two horns of power. This money has revived Islam from the defeat they received in Europe when Islam nearly conquered it at the gates of Vienna and at Tours France(732AD). This beast will lead the world into Armageddon - which it looks like it is doing. I know no other more satanic religion or any other religion that hates believers of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob more. Notice verse 13, and think of the missle launchers used by the U.S. in the gulf war. Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Symphony on November 02, 2003, 01:08:00 PM Yes, Ollie, excellent point. The villiage carries aspects of the beast, as do apparently all human associations in whatever form, without a center in Jesus. Yes, Raphu, I certainly agree Islam may be an expression of that beast. I'm not sure the only expression, though. Islam has its own eternal contraditions, and some of them know it. I'm not sure about Mohammed as the false prophet. I hadn't thought of that. I personally think the "beast" transcends all earthly boundaries, from families, to villiages to larger entities. Generally, I think the "beast" is all earthly bureaucracy--which is expressed broadly in the three main earthly institutions: Government, commerce and the church(or, religion generally). All three have very distinct purposes. Gov't is to monitor commerce(taxation); commerce is to push back and minimize that oversight; the church, in its worldly expression thrives off of the other two(as the "harlot", riding on the back of the beast, government). The church is intertwined with commerce. All three instinctively hate the believer, and His Lord--at least, in their ultimate expressions. They aren't finished "crucifying" our Lord yet. The only difference between now and the time of the Romans and the Sanhedrin is the size of our weapons(nuclear, as opposed to battering rams...). America, or western, representative democracies generally, are a strange amalgam of prior distinctions: We are still answerable to a government, and/or to a church. But we have a say--that is, we have "representation". This is an ever constant thorn in the side to government and, certainly, to the historical, traditional church. Government is always, and constantly, "chompiing at the bit" of the constitutions--at least in western countries--put there to contain them. I may be wrong, but I don't think you will hear very many career bureaucrats or government folk coming to the quick defense of the constitution. Interestingly, in the U.S., I've read that only three colleges require coursework in the Constitution, for graduation(the three military academies--West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force in Denver). You could argue that a "Constitution", a descendent of King John's Magna Carta, which I understand his noblemen had to force on him, is a derivative or result of a biblical world view, that is, rights of man as implied by Jesus' "Golden Rule"(...do unto others...)... and, that a "Constitution" is the only thing in the last several hundreds of years that has in any way successfully contained the truly raw "Beast", in all his glory, at least up to this day. And interestingly, the "Constitution" is just words, mere words, on a flimsy piece of paper--a "document". And that, so far, is the only thing keeping us from the jaws of all the might and military power of a literally global superpower--that could corral, imprison and consume us, if it so desired. Hitler and his Nazis tried it. Stalin was more "successful". Pol Pot in Cambodia. And world history generally comes down on the side of nations and nation-building being generally about eating their own young, ultimately. All of the ancient societies were built on slave labor. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: KiwiChristian on November 02, 2003, 02:10:32 PM I"ve always wondered though who is the "man of lawlessness" that the bible talks about?
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Raphu on November 04, 2003, 08:39:45 AM I"ve always wondered though who is the "man of lawlessness" that the bible talks about? It seems that God's truths come in layers - past, present, future, always. The beast is here, yet there may be a particular person come as a representative of satan in the end times who will be seen by all. As there are two witnesses to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in this world today - Jews and Christians - there may also come two witnesses that are slain in Jerusalem before the whole world. We watch people slain in Jerusalem nearly everday on out televisions. Which ones will be God's servants according to the scriptures? These things are happening so quickly, will we even be aware of them when they happen? Some believe in a spectacular rapture of the church where all will see and be astounded, but I think that this will not happen and things will be much more subtle and spiritually discerned - my opinion. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: nlong on November 04, 2003, 11:32:11 AM Hey Symph, now I have a riddle for you : Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? The answer is hidden in : Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. Here's an interpretation that's wacked but sounds cool: They worshiped the dragon: what flies and breathes fire? Answer: Airplanes. Now, Which gave power unto the beast: the beasts are terrorists And, "They worshipped the beast: who could make war with the beast?" Reference: :Who could make war with Iraq? And haven't we been hearing that a lot lately? How can WE be justified in eliminating terrorists they say? In other words, there could be different references to different beasts, 1) the anti christ and 2) other category (unknown) Final thought: I found it very ironic that it took exactally one hour for the 9-11 attacks to be complete. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: twobombs on November 04, 2003, 03:34:57 PM And it will take exactly one day to obliterate the rest of the east coast.
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Symphony on November 04, 2003, 07:39:50 PM Thank you for that encouraging comment, 2bombs. ::) Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: nChrist on November 04, 2003, 08:26:25 PM Oklahoma Howdy to All,
God's children can and should stand as witnesses for HIS Glory and HIS Truth regardless of whether it is the end times or not. If it is the end times, we will not be able to stop it, but HIS children can and should serve daily regardless. If you think about this, what better time could there be to witness? We labor for the lost, as the end times mean Glory for Almighty God. In Christ, Tom Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: twobombs on November 05, 2003, 04:42:43 PM Symph:
Europe somehow escaped annihaliation in the 1980's and this time arrows are pointed towards the US apparently with prophetic backing. Just looked up with google http://www.ldolphin.org/angels298.html You see: 'we' here in Europe got used to the threat of instant death by nucleair fire; all strategic scenarios took place in great parts of then called west-germany ( I've lived all my life 10-20 miles from the west german border...) My grandparents and my wife's parents always tell tales about WW2, and teach important lessons that not one nation should play boss over another,etc,etc. But I give you this: it is better to die as a free man, then to live like a slave. For another period of slavery will unfold in Europe after the attack on the USA. I wished that the USA would learn the valuable lessons of war the easy way; 9/11 as an example. But it all has gone awry; Europe is next. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: rafter on November 05, 2003, 06:45:42 PM Hi twobombs, alway thought provoking when reading your posts. I am going to go out on a limb here with at least part of your riddle. Could the dragon be religion and the beast be the politcal system that we now have in place here in America? We do act quite arrogant. It is like an attitude of I can't be beat.
Anyway please give me your take on this. I don't study this because it seems unimportant to me. My job is to serve Jesus and trust God. And come out from among her and be seperate. I can be obedient whether or not I understand. God made it pretty simple. I am sure I will enjoy your response, and feel free to correct me as this is only a possible senario that I posted. :) Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Symphony on November 05, 2003, 07:20:38 PM But I give you this: it is better to die as a free man, then to live like a slave. For another period of slavery will unfold in Europe after the attack on the USA. Yes, 2bombs, that's for sure. Better to do without, than to live fat and be a prisoner. Some good points, rafter. Yes, arrogance is certainly our achilles heel--Pearl Harbor, 911, etc., notwithstanding. I've felt your way too, about prophecy being unimportant. Still, Revelation, etc. IS there. ANd, in the Old Testament, offices between priest, king, secretary, scribe, etc., were distinct, there being also a separate office for that of "prophet". The pagans certainly had them too. But prophecy is a very distinct part of the O.T.(the Major Prophets--Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekial, Daniel, and the Minor Prophets--all the others). They make up a considerable part of the Bible, as we know. Indeed, John the B's and Jesus's message both were Repent, for Why? B/c of what "is coming". But your point is well made, about just being obedient, regardless of the details. The children's hymn, "...but to trust and obey...". Yes, I would agree that the political system is "the beast", variously. I think the Harlot, is the church, and commerce, both. One added note: The curious thing about money--it always has imprint bearing the government's mark. But, "money" is simply representing "work performed". That means your work performed bears the government's mark. But, just wait until it's required to take in, or on, your very flesh. Then, effectively, you have become the "money", or, that is, the "currency", of exchange. There will be then, no more money. Work performed will no longer be represented, as much as the person doing the work will be. Becuase people will be the "money". To be tracked, bought and sold, like money use to be. That is, "owned" by the governing body sanctioning that "money". Money will cease to exist, because people will be the money--owned by the state.... Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: rafter on November 05, 2003, 07:51:39 PM Symphony, thanks for your reply. That last part put a picture in my mind that I did not have before. People as the commodity. I bet our pre civil war slaves knew exactly how that feels..... Of course they are gone now.
The things that are before us. Whew eee. I am so glad God saved this wretched soul and set me free to worship Him. Praise His Holy Name..... Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on November 05, 2003, 08:12:15 PM Symph: Fear not! God's will be. He is in charge. Are you one of His? Then the times will be shortened and you will be safe and saved for his promise to His people.Europe somehow escaped annihaliation in the 1980's and this time arrows are pointed towards the US apparently with prophetic backing. Just looked up with google http://www.ldolphin.org/angels298.html You see: 'we' here in Europe got used to the threat of instant death by nucleair fire; all strategic scenarios took place in great parts of then called west-germany ( I've lived all my life 10-20 miles from the west german border...) My grandparents and my wife's parents always tell tales about WW2, and teach important lessons that not one nation should play boss over another,etc,etc. But I give you this: it is better to die as a free man, then to live like a slave. For another period of slavery will unfold in Europe after the attack on the USA. I wished that the USA would learn the valuable lessons of war the easy way; 9/11 as an example. But it all has gone awry; Europe is next. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: rafter on November 05, 2003, 10:20:25 PM Ollie, I fear not for myself. My salvation is sure, in Jesus. I do grieve for those who have not secured there future. I don't want my worst enemy to go to hell. But there will be those who don't make it. Who are indeed an enemy of the cross. And they are my enemy also. But I will not feel good about there demise......... Nor will God...........
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on November 06, 2003, 06:21:21 AM Ollie, I fear not for myself. My salvation is sure, in Jesus. I do grieve for those who have not secured there future. I don't want my worst enemy to go to hell. But there will be those who don't make it. Who are indeed an enemy of the cross. And they are my enemy also. But I will not feel good about there demise......... Nor will God........... Very true in this tabernacle, but not in the next. No tears, no sadness. This is why God's love should be expressed and given even more so while in this body.Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: twobombs on November 06, 2003, 04:15:39 PM Hi twobombs, alway thought provoking when reading your posts. I am going to go out on a limb here with at least part of your riddle. Could the dragon be religion and the beast be the political system that we now have in place here in America? We do act quite arrogant. It is like an attitude of I can't be beat. I want to be careful not to judge too much, but what I've found "Unison on the Net" since the invasion of the USA in Iraq is that there is finally an answer to your question via Daniel into Revelation: Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns. Rev 13:4 [...] and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? When you want to place this scripture in these days then you would have to look for the most powerfull military machinery in the world to date; the ones currently fighting it military are the terrorists, politically I believe the World/UN-US relationship has changed since the Iraq crises, and will sustain even more damage when up-and-coming military actions in Iraq and Israel continue. In other words: the political force fighting Israel and the US are the powers-that-be in the UN. Now unto the Beast- Babylon connection : In the book of Revelation sits on this beast a woman : Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. More info on this babylon thing : http://members.surfeu.fi/archives5/BABYLON%20FOUR.htm This 'harlot' as she is called will suffer greatly : Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. So for a while the US will dictate the world, but at some point in time that will end.... The $1M dollar question right now is what are the events that precede/cause this, what will happen during and even after this event.... Fact is that : Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore , and shall make her desolate and naked , and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. Well, everyone and their aunt has heard that the 10 kings have time-and-again been identified as re-unified "Europe" , I do not fully agree with that, yet the identification of the whore as the USA sheds new light into the World-US relationship of the end of the end-time.... Anyway: the reason that "the 10" hate the whore should be caused by great conflicts in and around Israel, as the bible is talks about that on several places. Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Even unto the end the USA will apparently support the Israeli cause in some shape or form.... The sign of that day will be there when the whole world will turn against Israel and the USA. So when some nations plan a covert, yet destructive attack, the USA is also a major target instead of Israel only. Isa 47:8 Therefore hear now this, [thou that art] given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I [am], and none else beside me; I shall not sit [as] a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children: North Korea is now able to launch a missile that can reach the west-coast of the US; Terrorists that do drug transports can still reach the ports of mayor USA cities with quantities of drugs measured in tonnes; and not one suitcase nuke among them yet ? The current situation with Israel only needs to escalate, run out of time, and BANG the US is gone At that time the 70th week of Daniel will start, the Rapture occurs and the most difficult time the Jews ever had will have started. Only one third of those who are in the Land at the start of those days will survive it to see the Lord come back to rule this planet, and defeat the AC. Hope this clearifies some of the nomenclature in this subject. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: rafter on November 06, 2003, 07:24:41 PM Thanks for your response twobombs. It all seems quite feasible to me. These times that are coming will be quite interesting will it not?
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: 2nd Timothy on November 18, 2003, 02:15:32 PM Rev 17:3 is clearly explained in verse 7-11. This is not literal Babylon, its the "Mystery" Babylon.
Rev 17:7-9 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (KJV) This hardly sounds like its speaking of America to me. Seven mountains? Sounds more like Rome to me. Acient Babylon as we all know was a city In Iraq. But mystery Babylon is seven mountains that the women or whore sits on in Revelation. IMO these are two different Babylons and neither appear to be America. As for Daniel 7. It also is explained a few verses later. Dan 7:16-24 16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. 19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; 20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. (KJV) The first kingdom was Babylon which became world empire in 606 BC. when it conquered Egypt. Nebuchadnezzar took over the empire from his father and made it a world kingdom. Second kingdom was Media-Persian Empire. The Babylonian empire was conquered by the Medes and the Persians about 530 BC. A few hundred years later, the Greeks became the third empire, when Alexander the Great conquered the Persians. Rome became the greatest Empire around 68 BC. Note this kingdom was not given a name of an animal, but was described as dreadful terrible and exeedingly strong (Dan 7:7). This kingdom gained world power then disapeard. (note: this information was taken from Hal Lindsey's Planet Earth 2000AD.) I believe this Empire will be revived just before the return of Jesus Christ as described in Revelation 17:8 ;behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. I do agree that American will have to somehow be diminished for a Revived Roman Empire to happen, but thats not really hard to imagine the way things are going in America today. Here's a few actual news links that point in this direction Survey shows EU Citizens favour globalisation - http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&doc=IP/03/1553|0|RAPID&lg=EN This ones a bit old, but interesting non-the-less. Chicago Tribune, 6 January 2002 EU in position to be world’s next superpower - http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/europe/2002-0106-Chicago%20Tribune-European%20superpower.html An Emerging EU Superpower & the U.S Cold-War Clash http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0306/S00144.htm Just a few, but enough to make the point. I expect the EU will soon drop its extra members down to 10 as predicted by Daniel and force America under her control through economics. Either that, or America will either fall, or be destroyed. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: ollie on November 18, 2003, 02:50:42 PM Rev 17:3 is clearly explained in verse 7-11. This is not literal Babylon, its the "Mystery" Babylon. Isn't Babylon in Revelation used as a symbol for an entity that will lead into captivity just as the literal Babylon led into captivity?Rev 17:7-9 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. (KJV) This hardly sounds like its speaking of America to me. Seven mountains? Sounds more like Rome to me. Acient Babylon as we all know was a city In Iraq. But mystery Babylon is seven mountains that the women or whore sits on in Revelation. IMO these are two different Babylons and neither appear to be America. As for Daniel 7. It also is explained a few verses later. Dan 7:16-24 16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. 19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; 20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. (KJV) The first kingdom was Babylon which became world empire in 606 BC. when it conquered Egypt. Nebuchadnezzar took over the empire from his father and made it a world kingdom. Second kingdom was Media-Persian Empire. The Babylonian empire was conquered by the Medes and the Persians about 530 BC. A few hundred years later, the Greeks became the third empire, when Alexander the Great conquered the Persians. Rome became the greatest Empire around 68 BC. Note this kingdom was not given a name of an animal, but was described as dreadful terrible and exeedingly strong (Dan 7:7). This kingdom gained world power then disapeard. (note: this information was taken from Hal Lindsey's Planet Earth 2000AD.) I believe this Empire will be revived just before the return of Jesus Christ as described in Revelation 17:8 ;behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. I do agree that American will have to somehow be diminished for a Revived Roman Empire to happen, but thats not really hard to imagine the way things are going in America today. Here's a few actual news links that point in this direction Survey shows EU Citizens favour globalisation - http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&doc=IP/03/1553|0|RAPID&lg=EN This ones a bit old, but interesting non-the-less. Chicago Tribune, 6 January 2002 EU in position to be world’s next superpower - http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/europe/2002-0106-Chicago%20Tribune-European%20superpower.html An Emerging EU Superpower & the U.S Cold-War Clash http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0306/S00144.htm Just a few, but enough to make the point. I expect the EU will soon drop its extra members down to 10 as predicted by Daniel and force America under her control through economics. Either that, or America will either fall, or be destroyed. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: 2nd Timothy on November 18, 2003, 05:52:02 PM If you read through chapter 17 and 18, Babylon is described fairly well. Ch17:18 says the women is a great city which reineth over the Kings of the earth (waters were defined as peoples nations of all tongues). Which city reigns over earth? In Johns time that would be Rome. In the endtime, could it be a revived Rome? It is obviously very wealthy, having fine linens, gold, silver, ivory, etc etc Great economic power......and the whole world is made rich and corrupt by fornicating with her wealth and sorcery. She is also drunk with the blood of the saints and prophets. Is she also a religious system? I think Babylon is both a literal place and religious system in the endtime. Ch18:23 says for by sorceries were all the nations decieved. Babylon of old is known for its astrology and magic. The Babylon in Revelation will also deceive the nations with sorceries. America does not reign over the nations with sorcery. IMO this Babylon is something that is not known yet, but will come together when the old Roman Empire will be rebuilt, including the practise of sorcery, astrology as it was in the old days. And will obviously persecute and kill the saints as she is drunk with the blood of the saints.
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Justanotherfollowe on December 20, 2003, 08:19:09 PM ;D IM not sure if I am in the same ranch as the question with this answer, but the Beast and the antichrist, are two sperate things, Through wisdom, or as my mother calls it, common sense. Most religious communities that preach a tribulation, agree that the "Beast" is the one world government. Most further agree that this one world government is represented by the United Nations. If the beast is the United Nations and this "mark" is a count or vote of the beast then we should be looking at UN Resolution 666. This is the voice vote of the UN.
Resolution 666 was adopted on September 13, 1990, and concerns IRAQ. Now, there is nothing unusual about an embargo on any particular country. What is unusual about the embargo on IRAQ is that for the first time, the UN is actually regulating imports and exports (buy and sell) to IRAQ? Reference the language in paragraphs 7 of the resolution: Requests the Secretary-general to use his good offices to facilitate the delivery and distribution of foodstuffs to Kuwait and Iraq in accordance with the provisions of the present resolution and other relevant resolutions; What are the other relevant resolutions: 661 is the most relevant other resolution. Paragraph 3 parts a, b, and c. The text follows: Decides that all states shall prevent 1>The import into their territories of all commodities and products originating in Iraq or Kuwait exported therefrom after the date of the present resolution 2>Any activities by their nationals or in their territories which would promote or are calculated to promote the export or transshipment of any commodities or products from Iraq or Kuwait; and any dealings by their nationals or their flag vessels or in their territories in any commodities or products originating in Iraq or Kuwait and exported therefrom after the date of the present resolution, including in particular any transfer of funds to Iraq or Kuwait for the purposes of such activities or dealings 3>The sale or supply by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels of any commodities or products, including weapons or any other military equipment, whether or not originating in their territories but not including supplies intended strictly for medical purposes, and, in humanitarian circumstances, foodstuffs, to any person or body for the purposes of any business carried on in or operated from Iraq or Kuwait, and any activities by their nationals or in their territories which promote or are calculated to promote such sale or supply of such commodities or products Most in the church assume, ASSUME, that all prophecies are dealing with worldwide events. They forget that SATAN is the subtlest beast of the field. His way is not via bold, highly visible changes. But subtle, slow moving changes. The mechanisms set in place with resolution 666 made it possible for the UN to take part in financial and regulatory affairs of member states in a more engaging manner. Now, when an American Pop Star has a dispute with regard to their website or other matters, they don't take the matter to a US Court of law under US Constitutional rules, they take the matter to the UN Court of law. How strange is the embargo against IRAQ. Consider the embargo against CUBA. The UN does not actively control the sale or purchase of goods sold to CUBA. Yet, they do with IRAQ under resolution 666. And the antichrist will be of gentile decent, and both things will accure after the coming of Christ. Look at Romans 8:1 <1>If you belong to Christ Jesus, you won't be punished.<2> The Holy Spirit will give you life that comes from Christ Jesus and will set you free from sin and death. Meaning that if you are saved and walk the way of the world you will not have to go through the tribulation period or the thing's there of. So be full of faith worship he that is worthy of our praise for there is but one savior and one king and that is the lord in all his majesty, and with him you will be set free from this world and its pain Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: charlie on December 20, 2003, 09:53:35 PM Hello justanotherfollower. Your handle for what ever reason sounds somewhat sad and and dejected to me, am I misreading it?
As for the beast, you're right about them being two things. You will find them only in one place - ROME. The Roman Empire has never gone away all they did, blasphemies of blasphemies, is stick the word holy in front of it. Watch Europe, all those bickering nations are waiting for is the new Napoleon or Hitler to weld them into a united force, then watch out. It will be the time of Jacob's Trouble. The thing is, do you know who Jacob is? For Jeremiah prophesied a future captivity for the Houses of Israel and Judah. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: 2nd Timothy on December 21, 2003, 10:37:17 AM I tend to agree with you Charlie,
The EU deffinately has all the earmarks of Daniel's fourth beast, and feet of the statue. If the EU is not what Daniel saw, it must be its evil twin. The EU has much strength and yet division now seen among its 10 permanant members, which deffinately fit the Iron mixed with clay discription (strong yet brittle) Daniel speaks of in the statue's 2 feet. For a little history behind the 2 founding members....Germany and France, I believe back in the 50's, decided to combine their 2 resources together to unite Europe. Could this be the 2 feet of the statue? Maybe, maybe not, but it sure seems odd that they are leading the rest or dragging the other members around, not to mention their defiance of the US lead coalition at the UN. Recent news shows the EU members are in disarray now that they cannot agree on a constitution. Germany and France (again these 2) are welcoming any group of EU nations that wish to join them in pushing ahead of the rest which they refer to as a 2 speed Europe. Again many member nations do not agree with this strategy. IF the EU is the 4th beast Daniel saw, we could very well be setting up for the 10 horns, and the little horn (the Antichrist) that comes up and pulls 3 of the 10 horns, giving their power to himself. I also find it interesting that Israel's newly anounced peace accord is being forced down Israel's throat at the same time as all this confusion going on in the EU right now. Again, this could all be nothing, but it sure looks like the shadow of Daniels prophecy could be looming on the horizon. Grace and Peace! Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: chris_carman on February 10, 2004, 02:20:46 PM The Beast is here. That you can no longer speak out against it, tells you that it is here. Yes the beast is here hwoever it only recently arrived ,but his mark has been around for decades "forces all men great small rich poor free slave to except a mark in his right hand or forhead (brain) and you can't buy or sell unless you have this mark" That Mark is money and the beast is G-Unit I know this sounds crazy, but look at thier names YOUNG BUCK 50 CENT LLOYD BANKS Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Symphony on February 10, 2004, 08:11:34 PM Huh?? Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: chris_carman on February 13, 2004, 01:38:05 PM Huh?? Let clear this up for you the mark is money which has been around for decades and the beast is the G-unit which has arrived only recently All of their names have to do with currency and you can not buy or sell anything unless you have $$$ Thank you N' GOD bless Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Sapphire W34P0N on February 13, 2004, 04:41:00 PM That Mark is money and the beast is G-Unit
I know this sounds crazy, but look at thier names YOUNG BUCK 50 CENT LLOYD BANKS Ok, I lied, I DO want to know what you have to say on the topic, and...honestly, just shut up. G-Unit is a rap group, and apparently, they're the Beast. Really. That goes far and beyond some really, really ridiculous things I've heard before. You know that those aren't their REAL names, don't you? Ok, I'm done now. Sorry for the interruption. Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Tibby on February 13, 2004, 04:43:40 PM Well, carman, that is a new way of looking at it, I'll give you that... ::)
Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: chris_carman on February 19, 2004, 01:35:06 PM You know that those aren't their REAL names, don't you? OK maybe not 50 or young buck, but LLoyd banks uses his actual name it is Lloyd Banks so he is most likely the beast Title: Re:The Beast is Here. Post by: Sapphire W34P0N on February 19, 2004, 04:22:19 PM I don't like to judge, but...your theory is stupid.
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