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You may be sick or know someone who is sick and the doctors say there is no hope! I have good news for you ... there is hope for healing found in the Holy Bible.  

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A very important scripture in healing is found in the book of Isaiah, Chapter 53 (found in the Old Testament). These words were prophesied about 2,700 years ago.

Isaiah 53, verses 3 to 6 are set out below followed by meanings of some of the key words based on Young' s Analytical Concordance.

­Isa. 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

grief(s) ...choli ( Heb. ) meaning sickness, weakness, pain
sorrows ...makob (Heb. ) meaning pain
stripes... chaburah ( Heb.) meaning a bruise, bandage, scar
healed...rapha ( Heb. ) meaning to heal, be healed .
iniquity(ies)...avon ( Heb.) meaning perversity .
transgressions...pesha ( Heb.) meaning transgression, rebellion.

It is instructive to read these same verses in Young's Literal Translation, noting in particular verse 4.

4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains -- he hath carried them, And we -- we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.

Also according to a Hebrew speaking friend of mine one can write a simple mathematical expression based on verse 5:-

His stripes = our healing

Also note Matthew 8: 16,17

16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias (Isaiah) the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Moving forward in time to approximately 65 AD, over 30 years after the cross Apostle Peter wrote the following:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (­1 Peter 2:24).
The Greek word used for healed ( iaomai ( Grk. ) ) is that from which we obtain the Greek word for doctor.

Based on 1 Peter 2: 24b, the Bible says we were healed not will be. In other words, if one is saved then we are the healthy trying to stop the enemy steal our healing not the sick trying to be healed!

You may say I can see that in principle but how does it operate in practice. To answer this question one testimony may be instructive.

In 1989, one well known preacher had sugar diabetes; his sugar level was so high that the doctor was surprised that he was not in a coma. He sent his wife out to procure every healing tape in the city in which he resided. He reported that God healed him and several years later testified to God' s healing power in this regard.

You may be still sceptical but I challenge you to be a Berean (Acts 17: 11) ... Check it out in the WORD for yourself.

Personally one of my daily confessions is, " Thank you Lord that I was healed from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet according to your Word, by whose stripes ye were healed. "

"Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (II Corinthians 12:10)


Brother Love :)

To these scriptures might be added the following: "Who forgives all of thy sins and heals ALL of thy diseses." (Ps 103)

"Beloved I wish aboce all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospers." (3 John 2)

aw

Some more thoughts on healing are enclosed below!

- - Part 2

Phew, it was hot. Recently we were sitting on a train and over the PA system the announcement was made that cars outside were overheating in the high ambient temperature. The train was moving slowly, then stopping for several minutes then moving forward slowly...

At this time I remembered an illustration from the booklet called, " The Four Spiritual Laws (1) " In this publication is a simple diagram depicting a locomotive ( or engine ), a guard's van ( or caboose) and in between a passenger compartment section of the train. The locomotive represents Fact (God and His Word), the guard's van represents Feeling and the passenger compartment part of the train Faith.

The purpose of the illustration is to depict that the train is pulled by the locomotive, not by the guard's van. In the same way we are encouraged to put our trust in God and the promises He makes in the Bible. Fuel is to be put into the engine not the guard's van. The more fuel of faith (trust) that is put into the facts of God's promises, the more His power will be released. We are not to allow our faith to depend on how we feel.

With the above material in mind let us try and answer the question, " Does God heal today? " The Bible says, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. ( Heb. 13: 8 ).

Who is Jesus Christ?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
...
14 And the Word was made flesh ( Jesus Christ ), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
( John 1: 1-14). { In verse 14 I added the words "Jesus Christ. " }
... Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; ( John 20: 31)

Let's Look At Some Bible Healing Scriptures Again

And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. ( Matthew 4: 23, 24 )

Later on we read Matthew 8: 16, 17 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

In the Old Testament we see verses such as:-
Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; ( Psalm 103: 1-3)

For I am the LORD, I change not ... ( Malachi 3: 6 ).

There are many more Bible statements showing that God will heal!
If Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. ( Heb. 13: 8 ) then His power to heal ALL our diseases and infirmities is available right now.

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Only two or three days after the train journey mentioned above I was walking in the city centre. As I was taking a short cut through a side street I heard a voice shouting behind me and as I looked around there was a man standing about 25 yards away looking very joyful and waving a piece of paper up in the air. I recognised the man as a Christian and as he came up close he handed me a single sheet of paper and said, " I typed this out and my sister thought it was really good!"

On reading part of the typescript I learned that he had simply typed out some verses from the Bible ( with no analysis nor exposition ). One block of verses was from Exodus 15 and read as follows:-

22 Then Moses led Israel from the Red Sea and they went into the Desert of Shur. For three days they traveled in the desert without finding water. 23 When they came to Marah, they could not drink its water because it was bitter. (That is why the place is called Marah.) 24 So the people grumbled against Moses, saying, "What are we to drink?"
25 Then Moses cried out to the LORD, and the LORD showed him a piece of wood. He threw it into the water, and the water became sweet.
There the LORD made a decree and a law for them, and there he tested them. 26 He said, "If you listen carefully to the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you."
27 Then they came to Elim, where there were twelve springs and seventy palm trees, and they camped there near the water. ( Exodus 15: 22-27 NIV ).

As I meditated on the above scripture I thought about those in certain countries who write scripture on slips of paper to encourage each other in the faith.

The context of the above verses are as follows:-
After supernaturally delivering Israel out of Egyptian bondage, God entered into covenant of healing with Israel in the wilderness.

After travelling 3 days in the wilderness, we read the words above, " for I am the LORD, who heals you." (Exodus 15: 26b)
Later on Mount Sinai, after God had spoken and given them the ten commandments, He promised:-
"... I will take away sickness from among you, " (Exodus 23: 25)
Forty years later as they preparing to enter the promised land Moses reminded them of His covenant.
" The LORD will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you. " ( Deut. 7:15).

So Exodus 15: 26 " for I am the LORD, who heals you." is God's contract of healing. Also the blessings given to Israel come to everyone who receives Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

"This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus." ( Ephesians 3: 6 )
( see also Ephesians 2: 11-22; 2 Corin. 1: 20-22 ).

It is a well known saying that a picture is worth a 1000 words. In this message ( Part 2 ) there are two simple pictures.

The first was that of a train and the main point here is that fuel should be put into the engine not the guard's van ... meaning that we should pay much more attention to the facts of God's promises NOT our feelings!

The second was of a man standing joyful in the street waving a sheet of paper ... meaning here the contract we have. So let us check out the covenant or contract we have with the Lord to see what it says about this important subject of healing, Amen!

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1.Campus Crusade For Christ, " Have You Heard Of The Four Spiritual Laws (1965)

Also if sickness is so great why do people go to the doctor/surgeon and natural medicine to remove it?

I agree God is able to use infirmity/sickness for good but the OT says disease is a curse.

Rapha

I am not under the OT, are you?

Grace & Peace

Rapha777,
 
Sorry, I didn't read all of your second post, too much to say in reply of your first post. I'm assuming you think healing is in the atonement, fogive me if I misunderstood.(It's late, and I'm tired)

First lets look at the context.

Isaiah1:4
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

1:5
Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

1:6
From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Using physical sickness as a metaphor for spiritual sickness from sin.

Now lets read Isaiah 53 again.

Isaiah53:3
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I hope this helped. I would take more time on this but i'm sure that there is a thread on this subject. If not, I'll be bock.

God bless
4JC

Dear Friends,
Please find below 31 Healing Scriptures ( Part 1 ) to consider.
God bless,
Rapha
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31 Healing Scriptures
One for every day of the month - Part 1 OT
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Old Testament
Exod 15:26 | Exod 23:25-26 | Deut 7:15 | Ps 91:9-10 | Ps 103:1-5 | Ps 107:19-20 Prov 4:20-23 | Isa 41:10 | Isa 53:4-5 | Isa 55:9-11 | Isa 58:6-11 | Jer 30:17 | Mal 3:6 Mal 4:2-3

Exod 15:26
26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
Exod 23:25-26
25 And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee. 26 There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.
Deut 7:15
15 And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.
Ps 91:9-10
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; 10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Ps 103:1-5
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. 2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: 3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; 4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies; 5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
Ps 107:19-20
19 Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses. 20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Prov 4:20-23
20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. 21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. 22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. 23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Isa 41:10
"Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness."
Isa 53:4-5
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 55:9-11
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Isa 58:6-11
6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? 8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. 9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; 10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: 11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Jer 30:17
17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.
Mal 3:6
"For I am the Lord, I change not"
Mal 4:2-3
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
... continued

Dear Friends,
Please find below 31 Healing Scriptures ( Part 2 ) to consider.
God bless,
Rapha
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31 Healing Scriptures
One for every day of the month - Part 2 NT
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New Testament
Matt 7:7-11 | Matt 8:16-17 | Matt 9:35 | Matt 15:30-31 | Mark 11:22-24 Mark 16:17-18 | Luke 4:17-19 | Luke 9:1-2 | Luke 10:8-9 | Luke 13:16 | Acts 4:29-30 Acts 5:15-16 | Acts 10:38 | Gal 3:13 | James 5:13-16 | 1 John 5:14-15 | 3 John 2
Matt 7:7-11
7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Matt 8:16-17
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
Matt 9:35
35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Matt 15:30-31
30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them: 31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.
Mark 11:22-24
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Luke 4:17-19
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luke 9:1-2
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luke 10:8-9
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: 9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luke 13:16
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Acts 4:29-30
29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Acts 5:15-16
15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. 16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Acts 10:38
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
James 5:13-16
13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
1 John 5:14-15
"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
3 John 2
"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Physical healing has, and always will be, associated with Israel’s program. Notice:

Exodus 15:26: And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee. (referring to Israel)

Matt. 4:23: And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Acts 3:6-11: 6: Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

7: And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

8: And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

9: And all the people saw him walking and praising God:

10: And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.

11: And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.

Notice that when God healed the lame man in Acts 3 He completely healed his entire body.

Notice Paul, and see what happens to him when he prays for a healing:

II Cor. 12:7-9:

7: And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8: For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9: And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Paul asks the Lord for help three times and the Lord responded that His grace was sufficient. The passage also goes on to tell us that we are to glory in infirmities because it causes us to rely upon His strength.

Notice what Paul says about others and their sicknesses:

I Timothy 5:23: Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

II Timothy 4:20: Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

In both of these passages, Paul does the opposite of healing them physically. To Timothy he tells him to take some medicine, and then he leaves Trophimus sick.

 

The basic issue here is that the healing program of God is not in affect in the age of Grace. It belongs to the Nation of Israel and their program. Understanding how to rightly divide the word of God will help to clear up the confusion regarding healing today.

From a Study By R. Jordan

Posted By Brother Love :)

P.S. I agree 100% on the above study

Acts 10:38
" How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing ALL that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

That is the Jesus I know; everywhere He went the sick were healed.  

Also Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, and today and forever.

Rapha

Who are you Benny Hinn :)

Brother Love :)

Does the Bible say that Paul's thorn was sickness?

I base my case for healing on the Hole Bible. In healing the Christian has a choice... the Lord Jesus Christ or the doctors/ natural medicine.

The BIBLE says the following about doctors:-

Mark 5:25 f And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, 26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,

2 Chron. 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians. 13 And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

Therefore the success rating for doctors is 0.00%

Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing ALL that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

The Lord Jesus Christ has a success rating of 100.00%

It is pretty obvious who is the better doctor!

Rapha

Notice what Paul says about others and their sicknesses:

I Timothy 5:23: Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

II Timothy 4:20: Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

In both of these passages, Paul does the opposite of healing them physically. To Timothy he tells him to take some medicine, and then he leaves Trophimus sick.


Brother Love :)

... AND in the book of Acts both Peter and Paul healed people. So what do you conclude from that?

Rapha.

Here's an idea:  God is sovereign.  Sometimes He will heal you; sometimes He won't.  That's why HBO can run an hour-long documentary on Benny Hinn being the biggest fraud in the United States, because Benny thinks that he is sovereign, rather than God.

Hi Rapha777,

I see this thread kind of took off.lol

I have a little more time today so I want to talk more on the scripture you gave.

There is a sense in which physical healing took place in the atoning work of Christ, but that healingwaits to be realized in the future. The physical part of salvation (a physical wholeness) is something we look forward to, not something we possess today.

Rev. 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Now,
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The apostle Peter applies Isaiah 53:5 to salvation from sin.

Again, lets look further into the context,

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The expression healed (In 1 Peter 2:24) Means "to be forgiven." The phrase "you have returned to the sheperd" shows what Peter means by "healed" in verse 24.

The healing ministry of Jesus,

Mathew 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Now you say that means we're to claim healing in the atonement, and in a sense that is correct. Jesus healed people to illustrate the healing in the glory to come. But that's not yet realized. If the healing of the atonement were fully realized now, no Christian would ever be sick or die. the atoning work of Christ spiritually transforms us now and will physically transform us in the future.


God bless
4JC

"Who are you Benny Hinn?" Sorry Rapha, but I lost it when I read that. Now I need to clean the coffee (I spit out) off of the computer screen.

"Who are you Benny Hinn?" Sorry Rapha, but I lost it when I read that. Now I need to clean the coffee (I spit out) off of the computer screen.

ROFLOL ;D ;D ;D

Ephesians 5

 1.  Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
 2.  And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
 3.  But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
 4.  Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
 5.  For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
 6.  Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
 7.  Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
 8.  For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
 9.  (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
 10.  Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
 11.  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
 12.  For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
 13. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
 14.  Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
 15.  See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
 16.  Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
 17.  Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Oral Roberts?  :)

Brother Love :)

Your for information my favourite preacher of modern time was Smith Wigglesworth who God used to raise at least 14 people from the dead and also heal many people. However, I do not look to him or any other preacher for healing but the Lord Jesus Christ ... He was the Healer, is the Healer and will be the Healer. Consider :-

Hebrews 12:1, 2 ( KJV)

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. {author: or, beginner}

The point is when a person has a problem ...healing or whatever, Do they look at the Lord first and get His wisdom, thoughts OR panic and go for the carnal solution?

I have not been to the doctor or dentist for about 15 years nor have I taken any natural medicine for ~15 years And I give ALL the glory to the Lord Jesus Christ

Rapha.

Mar 16:17  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The basic issue here is that the healing program of God is not in affect in the age of Grace. It belongs to the Nation of Israel and their program. Understanding how to rightly divide the word of God will help to clear up the confusion regarding healing today.

BL,
Is it lawful to do good in this day of grace or to do evil. You truly have a limited view of Jesus Christ our grace. The Word gives us both physical and spiritual healing. We know God is sovereign and sometimes does not heal because he knows what we need before we ask. But to make a blanket statement that He does not heal at all is not true. Surely spiritual blessings are by far the most important but to say that God changed in His basic desire to bless physically is not good. Why do you think he still give's you food and raiment. This is to give you good health. He loves you and wants to give good things to you, even physical healing. I know He has healed me. Once he healed me of a hernia. I was going to turn in for the night and prayed by my bed side for God to heal me. The next morn I awoke with a complete healing. Once i was losing hair by the handful at the age of 20. I prayed and the next day or so I began to see hundreds of new hairs sprouting up. So do not tell me that healing is not for Today. I can tell of other healings but those two are sufficient.

The Lord Bless  You,

asaph

 1 Corinthians 12:1.  Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
 2.  Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
 3.  Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
 4.  Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
 5.  And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
 6.  And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
 7.  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
 8.  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
 9.  To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
 10.  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
 11.  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1 Corinthians 12:28.  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
 29.  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
 30.  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
 31.  But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

 James 5:13.  Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
 14.  Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
 15.  And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 16.  Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Lets see

Christians have Baby - Christian dies

Heathens have Baby - Heathen dies

I believe when Christ was on earth and He healed someone they would have lived for a thousand years with Christ here.

But you all know why that never came about, Dont you???

Hello everyone,

Are we talking about the Gift of healing now?

I think we are talking about many different issues here and trying to find one answer. This is confusing the issue.

1) atonement

2) Miraculous healing through human agency (gift of healing)

3) Unilateral miracles, mighty works of God alone.

4) Providence

A miracle...."a miracle is an extraordinary work of God that involves His immediate and unmistakable intervention in the physical realm in a way that contravenes natural processes.

providence....."Providence is Gods faithful, moment-by-moment control over everything He has made to ensure that everything He has created achieves the end He has chosen."

Help me out here? Which one are we talking about?

Some things to consider;

You claim the gift of healing is active today (Smith Wigglesworth raising the dead). Why would we need the "gift of healing" if all we had to do was to claim it? Why would anyone ever need the gift of healing since the time of the Corinthian Church?

Didn't God give us medicine?

You should check out what happened to the people who taught all you had to do was claim it (your healing). They said you didn't need doctors. Most sought medical care. most of the rest died.

Check it out. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/healthyself.html

Everyone has the right to cry out to God when sick and ask for healing. He will heal you if it's within His will. Sometimes miraculously (this is rare), Mostly providentially. but his will comes first, always. The gift of healing was never intended to keep Christians healthy, It was a sign. to prove the deity of Christ, and to authenticate the Apostle's message.

God bless

4JC

Good question, Good post.

Within the Holy Bible there are several ways of getting healed. They include:-

1. Standing on the Word as explained in my first posting wrt 1 Peter 2 :24b

2. Laying Hands on the Sick according to Mark 16: 17, 18

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.  

3. Call For the elders James 5: 14 - 16
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.

4. Ask ( John 14: 13 ) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  

AND there are other methods!!!

The Holy Bible says it is God' s will to heal, for example,
see Matthew 8: 1 f  as it God' s will that everybody be saved.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2Pe 3:9 ).

How can you pray / act in faith if you are not sure of His will in this matter?

Rapha.






 

FAIT IN FAITH :)

Brother Love :)

LOL Its FAITH IN FAITH :)

Brother Love :)

Your quote on Faith is NOT found in the Bible! What the Bible says on faith and healing in the Gospel of Matthew ( for example ) is as follows:-

Mt 8:10
    When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Mt 9:2
    And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Mt 9:22
    But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Mt 9:29
    Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Mt 15:28
    Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Mt 17:20
    And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Mt 21:21
    Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith , and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

*******

Notice  Mt. 17:20 is Healing Method no. 5!

Rapha.

???

Everyone wants to go to Heaven
But no one wants to die ;)

Some Suggestions:

Dial 1-900-BEN-HINN :)

Go see Oral Roberts, and go up in his tower for prayer(maybe you will see the 600 foot Jesus. :)

Join the 700 Club. :)

Send Kenneth Copeland, Robert Tilton your prayer request (with a check).  :)

Have a Good Day

Brother Love :)

My comment on Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copleland et al is , " No comment! "

Rapha

My time out is over. LOL

Some would go as far as to say that death (Physical) is the ultimate healing. Things that make you say Hmmm...  ???

Sorry if there was a bitter Tone in my last post, guys. This topic has a history with me, actually, with some people I knew.

Sorry ;D

God bless,

4JC

There are those that are sceptical of healing and speaking in tongues.

But consider the following:-

The book of Acts is sometimes called the Blue Print for evangelism. Salvation of souls is most important most Christians would agree!  

Notice

Acts 2 Tongues + Preaching = 3000 souls saved.

Acts 3 and 4 Healing + Preaching = 5000 men saved

Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand. Acts 4:4

It is significant to note how many times tongues and healing / deliverance is mentioned in this important book.

Take away the supernatural from The Acts and there is nothing much left.

Rapha.

I would like to reiterate what has been said on this forum and some new scriptures regarding the following point:-

Quote from: Brother Love on October 21, 2003, 06:10:57 AM
"Physical healing has, and always will be, associated with Israel' s program."

Consider what Asaph quoted:-

Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

ALSO in Romans 11 the Gentile Christian is grafted into the olive tree. Because of this one may safely conclude that what Israel had, the Gentiles may have!

How many true vines are there in John 15? Answer ONE!

There is only one body, one church, one flock and a person is in or out!

Rapha.

I BELIEVE

I believe that the entire Bible is inspired of God, is without error and is of plenary authority (II Tim. 3:16; II Peter 1:21).
We believe in one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; II Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6).
I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ was begotten by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and is true God and man (Luke 1:35; Romans 1:3,4; Phil. 2:6-9).
I believe that man is saved by grace through faith. Man is depraved, utterly sinful and his efforts, regardless of how well intended, cannot earn salvation. Salvation is a free gift made available by the complete payment for sin through Christ's death on the cross (Romans 3:9-12; 3:24-28; 4:1-8; I Cor. 1:18-31; Eph. 2:8,9).
I believe in the eternal security of the believer (Romans 8:1; 8:29-34; 8:38,39; Eph. 1:13,14; Phil. 1:6).
We believe that the church of this dispensation is the Body of Christ (Eph. 1:22, 23; 3:1-6) which is to be distinguished from the prophesied, earthly kingdom of Christ. The historical manifestation of the Body of Christ began with the Apostle Paul before he wrote his first epistle (I Thess. 2:14-16 cf. Acts 13:45,46; Phil. 1:5, 6; cf. Acts 16; I Cor. 12:13, 27 cf. Acts 18).
I believe the mission and commission of the Body of Christ is to proclaim the message of reconciliation (II Cor. 5:14-21) and to preach Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery (Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:8,9). The "gospel of the grace of God" is referred to as "my gospel" by the Apostle to the Gentiles (Rom. 2:16; 16:25). It is this gospel with which we are entrusted today (I Thess. 2:4).
I acknowledge that the above articles of faith do not exhaust the content of our faith which is the entire Word of God. However, I believe this list distinguishes some basic truths which are commonly disregarded today.

Brother Love :)

Brother Love, why are you scared of physical healing?
You said that following which has no backing of scripture:

The basic issue here is that the healing program of God is not in affect in the age of Grace. It belongs to the Nation of Israel and their program. Understanding how to rightly divide the word of God will help to clear up the confusion regarding healing today.

God is at work continually in peoples lives and many times miracles happen to bring Him glory. Your doctrine fails the compassion test. Sometime God chooses not to heal because He knows what's best. Instead of being rigid in your doctrine, as the pharisees were in theirs, please show a little compassion and bend on this matter.  

8   Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

asaph

Another point to consider is the significance of names in the Bible. In the Bible there is great significance in many names - many have a prophetic significance while others reflect peoples faith and gratitude to GOD.

Regarding The Names of God some include:-
El Shadai means Almighty God
YHVH Rapha means The LORD your healer
Adonai Ro'ee meansThe Lord my Shepherd

The term "Old Testament" tends to suggest that these scriptures were superceded by the New Testament and are therefore of secondary, or merely historical importance. Jesus did not come to do away with the scriptures, or replace them, but to fulfill and complete them.

They tell us so much about Messiah that we should not undervalue them. The Jews call these scriptures the Tanakh. This is an acronym made from the names of the sections of the scriptures. The Torah (Law), The Nevi'im (the prophets) and the Khotavim (the writings).

Rapha,

You said,
"Take away the supernatural from The Acts and there is nothing much left."  
WOW!, I hope you don't mean that. Actually, every word in the book of Acts is supernatural, so I guess your right.  ;D

You said,
"The book of Acts is sometimes called the Blue Print for evangelism. ......."
I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone say that. In fact, most would say it is a historic book and nothing in it should be considered normal for the Church unless confirmed in the Epistles because of the unique nature of what was happening at that time.

I missed something from your first few posts, maybe this will help give you a different perspective.

"Hebrews 13:8 has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of whether the Charismatic gifts have ceased; it's a statement about the unchanging character of Christ. In fact, that verse is one of the great proof texts of the deity of Christ, because it shows that He is immutable, and He is unchanging in His character and His attributes. But it does not teach that all of God's dealings with His people are always the same in every era. It doesn't teach that. .......We know, for example, that some important things have changed from the Old Testament era to the New, in fact, the whole point of the Book of Hebrews, the very Book that contains this verse, is that the ceremonial law of the Old Testament is no longer binding on believers in the New Testament era. The priesthood, the Tabernacle, the whole sacrificial system, are no longer part of God's relationship with His people."

Rapha
I know your argument better than you do. I don't disagree with the scripture you are using, only the way you are using it. ;D

God bless
4JC

Further to the comment that The Book Of Acts is The Blue Print For Evangelism   one can go through these scriptures and find the common correlation :-

Signs & Wonders( SW) Plus Preaching(P) = Church Growth(CG)

Have mentioned already:-

SW                            P                             CG
2:4                                2:14                         2:41
3:1                                3:12                         4:4

And there several others in Acts, eg.
8:6                                8:6                           8:12

Acts 8:6 f And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. 8 And there was great joy in that city. ... 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Rapha.

Below is a testimony of a lady who I know has a testimony in which there is an interplay of divine healing and medical science.  Rapha
------------------------------------------------------------

HEALING TESTIMONY

By Val Jones *

In February, 2003 I was tested for a tumour under my left arm; it was found to be a malignant Melanoma. It was a secondary cancer from a similar tumour I had on my back 16 years before. This new tumour was in the lymph gland under the left arm.

A malignant Melanoma is the most vigorous and fast growing of cancer tumours because this was a secondary tumour it is very difficult to treat and usually travels to other parts of the body quite quickly.

At this time my relationship with God was not good, I had become fed up with life and had lost the will to live due to so many things had gone wrong for me and my family in recent years, therefore my chances of beating this cancer were pretty slim. However I still knew God and His goodness and faithfulness to us so I asked my church, Revival Fires and many other brothers and sisters to pray for me. God had saved my life and healed me 16 years ago but I was not sure that he would do it this time.

continued at:-

http://www.angelfire.com/md3/pafn777/healtest.html

From: Two Minutes With The Bible

Nov 2

HEALING, THEN AND NOW

"And there came a leper to Him, beseeching Him, and kneeling down to Him, and saying unto Him, If Thou wilt, Thou canst make me clean" (Mark 1:40).

It is interesting to observe exactly what the leper did and
did not say to our Lord in the above passage. He did not
say: "If You could, You would," even though more and
greater miracles would unquestionably have enhanced our
Lord’s fame. He rather said: "If You will, You can" -— "If
Thou wilt, Thou canst make me clean."
       
The people of our Lord’s day did not question the gen-
uineness of His miracles. No one suggested that the in-
firmities He dealt with might be psychosomatic in nature,
that they were probably either real healings of imaginary
infirmities or imaginary healings of real infirmities. They
could not raise these objections, for the evidences of the
supernatural character of His healings were too over-
whelming to admit of this. Everywhere He went healing
the sick or casting out demons, the people "wondered and
were amazed," and spread "His fame" abroad from city to
city. At Capernaum:

"All they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto Him, and He laid His hands on every one of them and healed them" (Luke 4:40).
       
How different it is with the "healers" of our day and with
their claims! Entirely apart from the objections of those
who question these "healings" on Scriptural grounds, it is a
simple fact that great numbers of people among the general
populace question the validity of both the "healers" and
their "healing miracles."

Meantime, as one has said, the death rate remains "one
apiece." There always comes that last time, when the "heal-
ing" doesn’t work and the patient dies. This is why all mod-
ern "healers" leave behind them a long, sad trail of disil-
lusionment and shaken faith.

Written by Pastor Stam

Subscribe at:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/twominut.html
Two Minutes With The Bible By Pastor Stam

Mailing Address:
Berean Bible Society
N112 W17761 Mequon Road
P.O. Box 756
Germantown, WI 53022

Web Site:
http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/
Gospel Books, Materials, & Free Mailings

Email:
berean@execpc.com

Telephone:  262-255-4750

John Wesley

John Wesley ( the founder of the Methodists ) described numerous miracles of healing through his own prayers. He even tells of a story of how he prayed for his horse who had become lame on the way to a preaching engagement. He placed his hand on the horses leg and prayed that it might become well. A little later the horse revived and together they were able to journey to their destination.


Rapha

I prayed for my dog and it lived 2 more years.

Brother Love :)

KOOL ;D

As someone else mentioned beforehand, this topic has a bit of history for me, actually a lot of history and I have yet to understand it. As a precursor: my parents were pastors of a Penticostal church for over 40 years, until my mom became blind due to glaucoma. My father passed away a few years ago after suffering through a few strokes, a couple of heart attacks, and lung cancer. I am considered borderline deaf due to the lack of ear drums and partial eardrums, the result of my parents not taking me to doctors when I was young while I suffered through multiple ear infections. Their belief in faith healing superseded their belief in doctors.

So, with that said, here are some of my questions: If God heals today, what is required for the healing to take place?

Is it faith and only faith?

Is it faith combined with God's will?

Is it faith combined with God's will combined with a sinless life?

What is it?

If it's only faith then we must assume my parents had no faith.

If it's faith with God's will then it really doesn't matter if you have faith or not, God's will determines the outcome.

If it's faith with God's will with a sinless life then forget it, I'll never be healed. Will I? Will my mom?

-Samson

Good message smartinez1984

Brother Love :)

Now that is some truth

Amen

Hi Samson,

Sorry to hear about the all the sickness in your family, and your Father passing on. I would say the answer to your question is faith in Gods will. I hope that you would never give up on asking in prayer though. God has many reasons that we should ask Him in prayer, but more importantly, that we trust in Him, whatever His will is for us (see Psalm 13). I don't want to get into my own personal sicknesses, or my families, but the other people I was talking about was a couple that I knew. We were all attending a Pentecostal Church at the time. I was new there, and they were there for twenty years. The husband became terminally ill with cancer. For a year and a half they prayed believing if they only had enough faith God would heal him. When he passed on, the wife walked away from everything and everyone, basically, she's an apostate. It was a very sad thing to see happen and it really makes you think, I mean, this is not essential doctrine, healing that is, but the effects of this teaching when taken out of its Biblical context can be very damaging, as your testimony confirms.

I can tell you this much though, I have never been miraculously healed directly from God, or at least not that I am aware of, as I have said before, and maybe I didn't stress it enough, this is really, really, really rare. And I don't believe the gift of healing is for today, and it was never for the purpose of keeping Christians healthy. But, having said that, there have been times when my back has been so bad that I could barely move, and I prayed to God for healing, and most of the pain disappeared, not 100%, and only for a time. This happens all the time for me (not every time). This took me by surprise because I thought God only healed with miracles, but these healings were not miracles. This opened my eyes to Gods providence. I believe this is where all the confusion comes into play. I think some of the time (not always), in the middle of all this hocus pocus stuff going on, someone actually drops to their knees and prays and God, through His providence relieves some of the pain or heals people through normal means, maybe even speeding it up a bit. Then right away everyone is calling it a miracle, when it's not, it's God's providence. God is active in every aspect of our lives and not just the events that appear dramatic or spectacular. You honor God most when you see that, when you see God working in your life in every detail of it. We don't always understand God's will in every detail, and it doesn't always seam fair to us, but there is a greater purpose involved. I am almost positive I would have never accepted Jesus into my heart or even considered doing so had it not been for my illness(Depression/anxiety). He used this to draw me to Him. Providence.

Eph.1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Proverbs 16:33
The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

And so on.

Again, I'm sorry to hear about you and your families hardships.

God bless
4JC

Hello 4JC,

Thanks for your kind words. You bring up an interesting point, one that extends beyond the topic of healing. That is the point of God's sovereignty, or providence. I have never seen a healing (other than some skeptical "evidence" on TV) that I would constitute a miracle. I had this discussion with another gentleman a few days back about the definition of a miracle. For example, we know a gospel singer who's been suffering all his life from degenerative kidneys. He recently received a transplant which he testifies as a miracle. I told my friend that I didn't consider it a miracle, maybe a blessing from God, but not a miracle. He disagreed. I told him a miracle would have been for his ailing kidneys to be completely restored without human intervention. He is now confused ... :)

Anyway, I digress...

If God's providence is in play in miracles then does that mean it's also in play everywhere else, like salvation? In other words, does that mean that even if I have faith that I am saved I could actually NOT be saved because it depends on his will? Or does that only apply to everything else like healing, spiritual gifts, etc.

God Bless,

-Samson

Hi Samson,


Amen. That's the problem. To say something is not a miracle is not to say that God didn't do it. I think some people refuse to come to terms with that. It's important to note, that miracles from above are usually acts of judgment. So if someone asked "can God heal with a miracle today?", I would say that He can do whatever He wants to do, but He will not do anything that goes against what His word says. So I wouldn't close that door on that, I would just keep in mind that this was never His pattern.
 

Good question Samson. Once saved, always saved, so if you have faith and you are saved, this "is" God's will for you. The Bible tells us of many indicators that give evidence of true faith. The lady I mentioned in my last post who walked away was never saved to begin with; she showed that by turning her back on God, if in fact, that's what she did. Only she knows that for sure. Election is something to be grasped; I don't know that anyone can fully understand it. I'm sure there is another thread on this subject (Election) somewhere in this forum. If not, we'll have to start one. But I think what you are talking about is election.
 

God bless
4JC

P.S. One of my sisters just walked though the door and the first thing out of her mouth was about hospital studies being done about "healing rooms" in Churches. Iye yie yie. (Shaking my head side to side with my hand over my face).

Recently, I have been meditating on the healing testimony in Luke 13 : 10 - 17.

10 And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. 11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. 12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. 13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. 14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. 15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? 16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? 17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.

Several questions come to mind. In particular they are :-

1. This woman was afflicted with a spirit of infirmity which is an evil spirit. If someone went to the normal doctors today could they cure this condtion with drugs and normal medical practice?

For example, last Saturday, while street preaching, I met a man who was hearing voices on a continual  basis ( and it wasn't the Holy Spirit! ).  In my opinion, he needs Christian deliverance .

2. Who are the sons and daughters of Abraham today? Answer - see for example, Galatians 3, verses 7 and 29.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Any Comments?

Rapha

Yes, comments:

1. No. Doctors today, tomorrow, or yesterday could not cure this woman. Doctors today, tomorrow, or yesterday could not cause new kidneys to appear, cannot replace my middle ear to the same condition that God created it.

That's why it's called a miracle. The nature of the need doesn't matter, it's what man can do as opposed to what God can do. It doesn't matter who the daughters and sons of Abraham are. Can they get miracles today is the question, not WHO can get the miracles. Or is it?

Again, no one is questioning who can cure who of what. Neither is the question "CAN God cure anyone of anything". The answer to that question is yes. The questions are, again:

1. What is required for the healing to take place?

Is it faith and only faith?

Is it faith combined with God's will?

Is it faith combined with God's will combined with a sinless life?

What is it?

If it's only faith then we must assume my parents had no faith.

If it's faith with God's will then it really doesn't matter if you have faith or not, God's will determines the outcome.

If it's faith with God's will with a sinless life then forget it, I'll never be healed. Will I? Will my mom?

Comments?

Generally speaking, if you cannot heal yourself and the doctors cann't do it, it leaves only the Lord Jesus Christ / God as your option.

Because certain people believe that healing is only for Israel, I mentioned the seed of Abraham above to show that healing is for Christians ( Jew or Gentile ).

Also came across the following healing miracle which is well worth reading / listening to!

The Story of Betty Baxter is True. She was a dying cripple but she had faith that Jesus Christ would heal her. After revealing the exact day and hour that He would, (Sunday August 24th, 1941 at 3:00 PM) Jesus did heal her completely. She has since taken up the call of God to go and tell her story all over the world.

The URL link is @

http://www.geocities.com/bettybaxterstory/index2.html

Shalom,

Rapha

EVERYONE WANTS TO GO TO HEAVEN, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO DIE :)

Brother Love :)

Saw an interesting Non-hyped (what a change!) program on healing on TBN called A Night of Miracles.  It played Thanksgiving Day.  Man, that was something to be thankful for!  It had two great testimonies that really moved me -- a lady healed of environmental illness (allergic to everything) and a British rocker with a bad heart healed at a church service.   The ministry, Pleasant Valley Church, teaches about sanctification's role in healing.  Strong meat.  The Pastor is Henry Wright (do a Google search) and his book, "A More Excellent Way" really changed my theology on healing.  We have a part too.  I guess it answers the question of what we do when prayer alone isn't working.  true, God hears us.  But, will he heal us if we have unforginess or fear or bitterness?????

Also caughtPastor Wright on Sid Roth's website too.  Mr. Roth has many healing testimonies on his shows.

Anyone else catch this TBN special????

Many thanks for your post.

Also MAY BE some are not healed because they have "flabby faith ".( NOTE I DID NOT SAY ALL! )

see very good testimony about this @ : - http://www.christcorner.com/testimonies/testimonies1-8.html

Shalom,

Rapha.

EVERYONE WANTS TO GO TO HEAVEN, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO DIE

Brother Love  :)

When Timothy suffered an infirmity in the flesh, Paul
recommended medicine.
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. I Timothy 5:23
When Trophimus, one of Paul's ministry partners, was sick, no anointing or prayer for healing was ordered. Paul was forced to go on without him.
Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick. II Timothy 4:20
God gives no promise of physical healing for the Body of Christ through Paul as He did for Israel through James. In fact, Paul tells us that we must wait for the redemption of our bodies. (See Romans 8:22-25)

Grace & Peace

---------------

This is one direction of the apostle:-

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16  Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. ( James 5 )

As I explained several times previously in this thread there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in the body of Christ.

Shalom,

Rapha.

Then you need to read with your own eyes not your false teachers.

Grace & Peace