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remember the sabbath to keep it holy

when was the sabbath changed from saterday to sunday please quote book, chapter,and verse ???

Mat 12:8  For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Act 10:36  The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

All days belong to Him as He is Lord over them all, one is not over another. Worship Him every day all day long.

AMEN

The Sabbath was held on what we would call Saturday.  Most Christians attend church on Sunday.  This is not in observance of the Sabbath or thinking that it was changed or anything of that nature.

Jesus was the ultimate end to the Sabbath.  He was the perfect lamb of the Sabbath sacrafice.  And with His end, so was the end of the Sabbath.

Hi RBKay,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

Although this thread is specifically about the Sabbath it is also in regards to the Law so in a ways it is the right place to post what you have.

In regards to the OT vs the NT. Why not use both when discussing a topic that is taught in both. Yes, I agree with you that things have changed with the first coming of Jesus and the cross. The OT has it's place though in teaching us that the law was not sufficient and therefore we have a great need for a Saviour.

I also agree that a tithe as set forth in the OT is no longer there. Although it is not a requirement, what is wrong with using it as a basic guideline, not one to be strictly adhered to or required, for as you pointed out we are to give according to our heart which may sometimes be much more than just a tenth. There are those that have a difficult time in budgeting and it may be easier for those to set a certain amount aside for the purpose of giving to the Lord's work. Again, as you have pointed out, it should be with the heart, a cheerful giver and not one that is out of obligation or feeling of being required (law).

As in all things, not just in giving, we are under the law of Grace and Love not the laws of the OT. We are also under the law of liberty. Unfortunately many take advantage of the liberties of Grace and Love that we are under.

Thank you Roger for a great post.  Blessings Jeff

In direct answer to the question - The traditional jewish sabbath is from sunset Friday evening to sunset Saturday evening with Thursday being preperation day (the cooking of food that you'll need to eat during the sabbath, etc.)

I observe the sabbath Lord every day.    ;D

AMEN

Numbers 29:35 On the eighth day you shall have a solemn assembly; you shall do no servile work.

The eighth day, sunday....... But I agree with 2T, I observe the Lord every day.

The Sabbath is on Saturday.

If you keep everyday holy, as you seem to suggest, when do you work?

The point was that every day is the Lord's day...not just one day.

And since every day is the Lord's day I too observe the Lord every day.  I do it while I work, where I work, and when I work.  I do it when I am not working or at work.  All time is for the Lord. 

Well, one of the ways I keep the Sabbath Day holy is not to work on that day. It's true that you can and should honor God on any day, but God set aside one special day for Him and for us. But I still respect the beliefs of people who worship on Sunday.

A lot of people believe that the day was changed from Saturday to Sunday. I don't believe that. One of the reasons is because it's contrary to common sense. If the day was changed, there would have had to be a specific commandment saying so. You couldn't just casually change the day of worship with no one saying a word about it. Don't believe me? Try changing the day of worship at your home church or denomination and see what happens?  ;D

Jemdude....my point was, that Jesus IS our sabbath.  We are no longer in bondage to the Law, we are in bondage to the Saviour, who is our eternal rest.  The sabbath was merely a shadow of things to come.

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

You didn't say, but If you are attempting to attain your righteousness by keeping a sabbath.....

Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You are required to keep all of the law, and do them.   EDIT TO CLARIFY: which no man is able to keep!

Does this make sense?

Blessings!

2nd Timothy, I keep the Sabbath out of obedience to God, that's all. I don't believe that Col 2:16-17 means that the Sabbath has been abolished. But since it also says not to judge a person based on the worship day, then I assume that also means that I shouldn't be judged on my Sabbath Keeping either.

If the early Church really did change the day of worship, then I really would like to know how they were able to change the day from Saturday to Sunday without a specific commandment and without any protest from within the church or from the pharisees. If the Seventh Day Adventists or the Jews decided to change their worship day, there would be big news about it and much protest. The same thing applies if the Roman Catholic Church or other major Sunday keeping denomination changed their worship day.

Can you show me in the NT where it says the CHURCH is required to keep a sabbath?



Can I ask who do feel judged you by this...

Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them

Are these my words?  And if you feel judged by Gods word, do you think you are in agreement with this word?

Blessings!

I am at Church everyday, so to me the Sabbath is everyday not just one day it is everyday.

The Sabbath is a weekly religious day of rest as ordained by the Ten Commandments. Since we are in the age of Grace, we do not follow the Ten Commandments. As Jesus said, John 13:34 I give you a new commandment: that you should love one another. Just as I have loved you, so you too should love one another.

Though we have a new commandment, does this mean we shouldn't try to follow the ten commandments?  Yes we should try..... Try because we as Christians should be Christ like, in as many ways as possible.

Though no one can follow the Law of Moses. John 1:17 For while the Law was given through Moses, grace ( unearned, undeserved favor and spiritual blessing) and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:39 And that through Him everyone who believes [who acknowledges Jesus as his Savior and devotes himself to Him] is absolved (cleared and freed) from every charge from which he could not be justified and freed by the Law of Moses and given right standing with God.

Galatians 2:16
Yet we know that a man is justified or reckoned righteous and in right standing with God not by works of the Law, but [only] through faith and [absolute] reliance on and adherence to and trust in Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One). [Therefore] even we [ourselves] have believed on Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law [for we cannot be justified by any observance of the ritual of the Law given by Moses], because by keeping legal rituals and by works no human being can ever be justified (declared righteous and put in right standing with God).

Agreed.  The Sabbath day is the last day of the week, Saturday.  However the Sabbath is for Jews.

Exodus 31:13 ..."Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations..."
Exodus 31:16 ..."Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath"...

Those are but a couple of many verses that emphasize that the sabbath is a holy day only unto the Jews.  And is part of their Law and not the Law of Grace under Christ.  One cannot deny that Jesus rebuked the Jews concerning working on the Sabbath.  We as Christians are not under the Law but under Grace.  And therefore do not have to follow the strict observance of the Sabbath. 

Proving that the early Church kept Saturday is easy. There is NO specific commandment to keep Sunday. If the early church was mostly composed of Jews who kept the Sabbath for thousands of years, then the Church would have to have given a specific commandment to keep Sunday. The lack of such a command would indicate that no change took place.

If such a change did take place, there would have been massive protests. Both the Messianic Jewish followers within the church and the pharisees would have massively protested such a change. The idea that the church can make a change like that without an incident is impossible. As I said, if the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jews changed their day of worship, it would be big news. If the various Catholic and Protestant churches changed their day of worship from Sunday to Saturday or another day, it would be big news as well. It's just plain impossible to make a change like that without a specific commandment, and a lot of people saying something about it.

Hi Jemdude,

Now you are talking about traditions. Yes, some people have a hard time with accepting changes in traditions. As has already been pointed out to you with scripture the Sabbath observance was a shadow of things to come. It was not necessary to have a commandment to change it. It was changed with Christ on the cross.

Joh 1:17  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

With Christ as our Saviour we are in the temple everyday. (1Co 3:16 ) We should be worshiping Him accordingly everyday. There is nothing wrong with gathering with others in true worship of Him on the Sabbath. Nor is there anything wrong with gathering together in worship of Him on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday or any other day of the week. As Christians we are not bound by the Laws of the Old Testament as the law now abides in our hearts continually, not just on the Sabbath but everyday of the week.


Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6  And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8  Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10  Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Well Pastor Roger, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I just don't believe that after thousands of years of keeping the Saturday Sabbath, that a change in the day of worship could take place without a specific commandment to do so, and without it being big news. The idea that such a change took place quietly without incident is something that simply cannot be done.

The Messianic Jews believed that circumcision was compulsory for the gentiles. The Apostle Paul had to specifically tell them that was not so.

You act as if the Sabbath is some kind of legalistic thing. Not to me. After 6 days of hard work, I look forward to the Sabbath. To me, it's the best day of the week that I look forward to.

The Sabbath was given at creation week, long before there were any Jews.

As I said to Pastor Roger, I look forward to the Sabbath. I don't know where you get this idea that it's some kind of bad burden. You can hardly call a day off a burden.

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

No one has called it a "burden". Those are your words. A person that keeps the Sabbath as a commandment must be inclined to keep all of the law. The law has been our schoolmaster. It's purpose was to show us that no man could abide by the law. No matter how hard we try we will not be able to keep all of the law and to break one thing of it means that we have broken it all. This is the reason for the law of grace.

You mentioned that it was a proven thing that the early church worshiped on the Sabbath. Yes, when preaching to the Jews they did indeed do so in the Synagogues on the Sabbath as it was the time in which the Jews gathered.

Did you know that the Apostles also traveled from place to place on the Sabbath (which was considered a sin by the law) and would preach on a different day other than the Sabbath?

Act 20:7  And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:2  Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Jemdude,

No one is saying that the day of the Sabbath has changed.  Matter of fact we are all saying that day of the Sabbath as outlined by the Law is what we would call Saturday.  What we are saying is that we do not hold that day any more holy than any other day.  To the Jews the Sabbath was the "holiest" day of the week. 

And when you have started off referring to things in proper name form "the Sabbath" you are then referring to the Jewish holy day which is Saturday.  But at times you talk as if you are just referring to keeping the sabbath or keeping the day of rest which is the 7th day.  These are the traditions which the Pharisees had fallen into.  The day of rest, or the original sabbath was not for God's purpose but to truly provide man a day of rest.  To set in motion that we are to take some time to unwind.  The legalistic Jews over the years had turned the sabbath into more than just the day of rest and had turned it into a dramatic day of reverence.  And even as Jesus pointed out that they had gone to the point of being overboard with it.  They were ready to stone Jesus and the disciples for picking veggies on the side of the road on the Sabbath.  They were confused that one professing to be from God could and would do healing miracles on the Sabbath.  They had taken 6 days of the week away from God and put them all into the last day of the week. Each day of the week is God's and we should revere Him daily.   The Sabbath is for the Jews.  The sabbath is for all, but it is again the spirit of the sabbath not the law of the sabbath.

Let me ask you this Jemdude....


Do you believe you are justified by keeping the sabbath? 

Where in the Bible did the Apostles travel from place to place on the Sabbath? I don't think they did; at least not long distances.

I know I'm sounding repetitious, but it just isn't possible to change the day of worship and have everybody quietly go along with it. A good example is the Worldwide Church of God founded by Herbert W. Armstrong. They used to be a Sabbath (Saturday) keeping church. But when they decided to change their worship day to Sunday, do away with the Jewish holidays, and a host of other doctrinal changes, it tore the church apart. It caused much controversy within their denomination. The same thing would have happened if the Apostles changed the worship day from Saturday to Sunday. I guess you will have to be honest and admit that you are not able to explain how such a quite change to a major and long-practiced teaching can take place; and that's fine. Even Christians are not going to agree on everything.

Gathering on the 1st day of the week doesn't prove that they made it their main worship day either. It only proves that they had a particular function on that particular day. I attend the Seventh Day Adventist church and we used to have a Men's Ministry program that met on the 1st day of the week every month. Does that mean that Adventists have changed their main day of worship? Of course not. 1Cor 16:2 has nothing to do with a regular church service. Paul told them to take collections. Since they regarded Sunday as a working day, it must have been something that took a lot of work to do.

The Apostles continued to observe the Sabbath, not just when they were preaching to the Jews, but to the Gentiles as well:
--"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath." "And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God." Acts 13:42, 44
--"And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Acts 18:4.

There is also talk here about being under grace. It is true that we are under grace, but we still have to obey God's law. For example, if a cop catches you speeding, you have broken the law and deserve to be punished. But if the cop forgives you and doesn't give you the ticket, then you are under grace from him. Does that mean you can continue to break the law? Of course not. It would make you put even more effort not to break that law again.
--Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15.
--"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? Certainly Not!" Romans 6:14-15

I can quote more verses, but I don't think it will do any good. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've studied this subject and I don't think I would be able to quote anything new. What I might have shown new is when I appealed to your common sense when I demonstrated that a change in worship day just couldn't happen under the conditions you claim it happened. You have probably decided to dismiss it and continue to believe that a change in worship day occurred without incident. If that is the case, and I believe it is, then we'll have to continue to agree to disagree.

I'm not sure if I understand your question. If you are asking me if I believe that I can be saved by merely obeying God's laws then the answer is no. I still have to accept the sacrifice that Jesus made for my sins. But Jesus still wants all of us to obey God's laws, for as you probably know already, grace is not a license to sin. I do believe that keep the Sabbath is one of those laws that should be obeyed. But I don't feel that it's some kind of legalistic practice. Most people find the Sabbath a day to look forward to, especially after a week of hard work.

Well, one thing we can agree on is that the Pharisees made the Sabbath far more burdensome than God intended. They believed that practicing medicine was forbidden on the Sabbath so they accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath when he healed people on that day. They were wrong of course. Even today, the Orthodox Jews have much restrictions on what can be done on the Sabbath. For example, they don't believe in turning their lights on the Sabbath because of a Bible verse saying not to light fires on the Sabbath. It's for this same reason why they don't drive vehicles on the Sabbath since the engine generates sparks. There are even "Sabbath elevators" that stop on every floor because pressing the number is "lighting a fire". All of this is not of God's doing but man's doing and I'm glad that Jesus set the record straight on the subject.


I think there is a misunderstanding here. It is true that we are to honor God on every day of the week. However, we are not able to give God full attention on the working days of the week because of the distractions of work. When Sabbath comes (or Sunday in your case), we are able to give full attention to God.

I think the mud is starting to clear.  There really is a difference between the sabbath and The Sabbath.  The Pharisees had made the sabbath into The Sabbath.  And there was one each week.  The sabbath was instituted by God as a day of rest for man, a day we can sit back and reflect upon Him and what He has done and will do. 

And in keeping the sabbath I do not disagree.  I believe that God wants us to ensure that we keep at least one day free from the worldly things around us and focus on Him as well as self reflection (as in a time to focus on our relationship with Him and listen to what He has to say). 

Do I believe it has to be Saturday, or even Sunday?  No I do not.  I also do not believe that keeping the sabbath or not keeping it has anything to do with our salvation.  There are people in this world who unfortunately work on Sunday, or work on Saturday and Sunday, or whatever.  As long as they can take one day out of the 7 and dedicate it to focusing on God and not the world I believe they are keeping the sabbath.

When we start to mandate that the sabbath HAS to be on a certain day, then we are traveling the road the Pharisees took and will shortly also be dictating what to say and pray on those days as well.  And I do not believe that was the intent God had for that.

The sabbath travel law allowed for travel of a distance less than a mile. One that is pointed out is in John 9:1-9 Where both Jesus healed the blind man with clay and spittle. In this example though it does not state how far they traveled on that sabbath.

If we look to Paul's travels though we see many times where traveled long distances that would have required traveling on the sabbath in order to arrive in the time it says he did. Acts 16 (the scripture that I mentioned above) is just one of these examples.



AMEN!

With the many changes that man has implemented in the calendars from the original to the one we follow today it is difficult to tell what day of the week is actually the Sabbath. There has been many lengthy studies done on this and as of yet there is no definitive answer.

I don't see the Acts 16 scripture that you say you quoted. Besides, I don't think that Paul would have traveled long distances on the Sabbath. I think he got to those places by traveling on Sunday and the other working days.

As for calendar changes, I've been taught that they did not alter the weekly cycle. I've heard of one change where the calendar days were "fast forwarded" (1, 2, 3, 4, 15, 16, 17, 18. . . ), but such a change did not alter the weekly cycle. I don't think that God, who wanted people to keep the Sabbath (or even Sunday if you believe that is the day of Christian worship) would allow man to "loose track" of the day of worship.

How do you think the Word was spread, on the Sabbath?  How do you think that Paul could travel those distances of 36 miles in one day?

Acts 16:2 to be precise but read the rest of the adjoining verses.


Many of his travels were even longer than that and would have taken more than a week to get there.

Actually Jemdude the calender has changed many times over the years.  What we run off of now is the Julian Calendar, named after Julius Ceasar.  Before then the Roman Calendar was a mess and chaotic.  Days were added here and there for various reasons.  We honestly at this point cannot be certain what happened to the calendar or what sort of mess it looked like over the years.  That is why Julius felt he had to come in and clean it up.

Until then the Jews followed the spirit of the Sabbath in that they would work 6 days and then take a day of rest.  No one knows what day that would have fallen on.  Tradition puts it on what we would call Saturday.  But no one is for certain, even many Jewish historians do not know for certain.  They only accept that their ancestors kept up with the traditions.  They did not follow a specific day but they followed the work 6 off 1 structure.

And I would agree that God wants us to keep the sabbath, for our own benefits.  I believe that we are not under the OT Sabbath Laws however.  We are free to travel or whatever, however I do believe that God wants us to not work 7 days a week because that would burn us out, and we would lose our focus.  I believe that God wants us to take that 7th day and get our focus back. 

Studying the changes in the calendars down through the years is a long and arduous study. It has changed many times by many different nations, including the Hebrews. The days have changed from start time to end time and weeks have changed varying from 4 days to 8 days with months also varying in number sometimes being 13 months to a year.

OK Jemdude, lets dispense with all the wrangling.


In your view, is it necessary to observe the sabbath 'as you have described', to be saved?   Yes or no will do.

I will disagree. Sunday used to be the last day of the week. The Sabath or seventh. I think it was one of the Ceasars who changed the days on the calandar to make Sunday the first day of the week. This was along about the time they were renaming months afte themselves.

This is a real good example of giving unto Ceasar that which is his, so don't worry about the calander saying Sunday is first. Keep, it and every other day Holy, and you are also giving God that which is his. 8)

I enjoyed this thread very much.  My wife is a former Seventh Day Adventist with only good things to say about the Adventists and particularly the fellowship within the church.  We keep a Sunday sabbath. Since I am not sure it is a commandment that still applies, we sometimes fall away from it, and I feel the loss when we do.  One of the benefits of the sabbath for me is the other 6 days, and particularly Saturday, since I know the sabbath is coming I can keep going and keep working, since they are not the day of rest.  I tend to get more done when keeping the sabbath and I tend to feel closer to God.  I look at the sabbath as a gift and a reminder.

I am ashamed to say that once, when I was a very new Christian and didn't even really understand the basics of it, a neighbor asked for help on the sabbath, an older lady whose husband was ill, and she wanted her car washed . . . I was washing mine . . . and the sun was going down and sabbath as we keep it was approaching.  I said "Can I do it tommorrow" or some such.  Tommorrow came and they were out and it just fell away and I didn't help.  This was before I had read the whole Bible, but even then I should have known that we can to a certainty do good works on the sabbath.  Was very ashamed when I figured it out.

I am glad for this thread because I've always found Matthew 19 interesting, when the rich man approaches Jesus: 

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"  "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

"Which ones?" the man inquired.

 Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth."

What I have found interesting about this is that Christ named only certain of the commandments and they did not include the sabbath.  All the others that he left out seem to me to fall within "love your neighbor as yourself" or the young man selling his possessions and following Christ (which is basically, to me, giving the 1st commandment to place God first and worship no other Gods).  So . . . we are left, I think, with Christ naming every commandment EXCEPT the sabbath.

I am curious as to your opinions on this.

In refence to (b) the 8th day is part of the seventh month Numbers 29:17 - 40.  The 8th day is not Sunday. 

Numbers 29 is speaking of the Feast of Tabernacles or Sukkot. This was a celebration held in the month of Tisri (seventh month) starting on the 15th of that month. The first day was to be a Sabbath (a day of rest) and so was the 8th day. Either day may have been on any day of the week depending on where the 15th of the month fell in any given year. If a regular Sabbath fell in between it was not observed as such but was recognized instead on the first and eighth day of the feast.

Lev 23:39  Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

We see from this that a day of rest was not always on the same day of the week.

Sabbath (in Hebrew shābath and in Greek sabbaton) means "to rest".

What is the Christians "rest". It is today, not a specified day of the week but today, right now, that we must enter into His rest. In Him we rest daily.

Mat 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Heb 4:3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Gal 3:2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Amen PR

Hi,
     late in the discussion here I read through most of the responses and first wanted to say, Sabbath on Sat or Sabbath on Sun shouldn't"t divide believers. What ever day you choice to keep holy or worship, the seventh or the first day it is a simple fact that we are directed by the word to keep it. Does it say any where in the scriptures that we aren't to worship on Sunday?

What I have always been taught is early Christians worshiped on Sunday because they wanted to separate from the Jewish believers. It makes perfect horse sense to believe this since a major population of the Jews  DID not believe Jesus was the son of God, and were persecuting Christians. Being followers of Christ kinda branded the early christians but all this was in God plan as well, we scattered and the word spread, God is so smart ;D. The early Christians didn't have a "place" to worship and ended up having home churches such as Paul describes in Rom. 16:5
Greet also the church that meets at their house. speaking about Priscilla and Aquila.

Paul is having troulbe with the Jewish believes in Act 18:5-7. Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6) But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads!" I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles. 7) Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God....
Again in Acts 20:20 Paul says... taught you publicly and house to house.

I guess I don't truly understand what the debate is about? Is worshipping on the Sunday going to send anyone to hell? So anyway that is my two cents worth. 

blessings,
musicllover

Amen to you.  I choose to worship on Saturday.  It is my belief. It is my stand and if it is meant to be a mystery then we will all know about in the end.  For me it matters a lot and for any of you Sunday matters a lot.  I tell people that I witness to that I am not trying to bring them into my church I am helping them to know Jesus.

I worship every day, as our Saviour is worthy of worship all the time.

Amen to that !

Another AMEN!

I receive a lot of email in regards to an article on my site by the title “Truth” http://www.nlbchapel.org/truth.htm  Many like what is said but then ask why we worship on Sunday rather than the Sabbath. After numerous response by email I decided to post a reply at the end of the article titled “Why Sunday Worship?” which I think may help some here.

http://www.nlbchapel.org/truthreply1.htm

Comments from reader:

"Steve, good article about the catholic church mass and Christmas. Why do you still worship on the catholics non biblical Sunday?


Hello Reader,

    Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am happy that we both agree to the evils of christmass. Christmass season is a time of the year when many who call themselves children of God rebel against Him. Some do it in ignorance and some do it with full knowledge of what this season is all about. Some day I believe many religious leaders will stand in shame when they have to give an account for their spiritual malpractice concerning their involvement in this wicked celebration of a false christ.

    We worship on Sunday because like the early church we follow the Word of God. An honest student of the Scripture will easily see that the saints of the early Church met on Sunday (the first day of the week) for worship. Below are a few verses pertaining to this.

Act 2:42 “And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.”

Act 20:7 “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.”

1Co 16:1 “Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2  Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.”

     We know that Jesus arose the first day of the week.

Luk 24:1 “Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.”

Joh 20:19 “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Joh 20:26 “And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.”

    Matthew Henry’s Comentary

“Joh 20:26-31 -We have here an account of another appearance of Christ to his disciples, after his resurrection, when Thomas was now with them. And concerning this we may observe, I. When it was that Christ repeated his visit to his disciples: After eight days, that day seven-night after he rose, which must therefore be, as that was, the first day of the week.”

    As you can see we meet on the first day of the week just like the early Church did. It was Jesus Christ Himself who established this by raising from the dead on Sunday, and meeting on consecutive Sundays with the saints of the early Church. We choose to follow the pattern set forth by Jesus Himself. Seeing that Jesus established Sunday worship it makes no difference that some pagans or Catholics may have met on Sunday as well for their worship. Some Pagans also meet on Saturday for their worship but only in ignorance would someone claim that the Sabbath of the “Ten Commandments” was tied to paganism.

    We have to be careful when we come to conclusions based upon similarities of events or things. There are many things in pagan and Catholic rituals that are close to things ordained by God in the Scriptures. Yet we do not throw out the things that God commands because pagans or Catholics may do likewise. Christmass was never ordained by God and it is rooted in paganism and Catholicism therefore we reject it. Sunday worship and gatherings of the saints on the other hand, is found in the Word of God and instituted by Jesus Himself therefore we continue to follow the pattern regardless of what pagans and Catholics practice.

    Also, we need to be careful and not confuse laws that belong to Israel alone with laws that belong to the Church alone. A classic example of this would be groups like the “Seventh Day Adventist” who try to say that the “Ten Commandments” apply to the saints in this age. The Word of God teaches differently. In fact, the Word of God clearly teaches that the “Ten Commandments" was only for Israel and not for the gentile.

If interested you may read the rest of the reply here http://www.nlbchapel.org/truthreply1.htm

Pilgrim

I posted this in a thread of it's own but it is a fitting subject for this thread also.


WORSHIP

What does it mean to worship God. We hear it said all the time, "I go to worship on (Saturday or Sunday) at (such and such church). It is debated all of the time on what day we should worship. The word "worship" has taken a change in the meaning of the word. Today we see the use of this word as meaning a church service. In the original Hebrew and Greek it meant to do reverence, adore, to prostrate oneself in homage, to bow down to.

Jesus taught us about worship in John 4:20-24 with the woman from Samaria at the well. Here He tells of how the Jews went to a specified place for worship. He also tells us that the time will come that true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth. What is He saying here? True worship is not just going to church, although that is a great and honorable thing to do. Going to church we can have fellowship with other brothers and sisters, be built up spiritually, strengthening us for the week ahead, we can learn more of Christ and His will for us. True worship is of the spirit. It is an ongoing, daily occurence and with the love for God in our hearts (Col 3:17), that is what truly worshipping God means. Not a show to be put on once or twice a week but living for Him daily all the day long.

Joh 4:20  Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Col 3:17  And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


Psa 145:2  Every day will I bless thee; and I will praise thy name for ever and ever.


Heb 13:15  By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Hello Daniel,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. The division of the Mosaic Law is a man made idea that is foreign to the Scriptures. You will find no such division divinely laid out. Many say that it was the so-called ceremonial and dietary laws the was nailed to the cross not the so-called moral parts. They say that the so-called moral parts are still in force. Think about how silly this is. If you hold to this view then Christ sacrifice on the cross would only avail for what was nailed to the cross. That would mean that there is no sacrifice for the so-called moral parts which would then mean man kind is still in huge trouble with God. In the end you wind up having a works based salvation based on keeping the so-called moral part of the law of Moses.

Within the Church I can’t think of to many doctrines that people are more confused on than that of law and grace. This is sad because it is one of the most important doctrines and greatly influences one’s view on salvation. I invite you to prayerfully and carefully read the following articles.

“Which Law are You Under?” http://www.nlbchapel.org/which%20law.htm

“Subverters of Souls”  http://www.nlbchapel.org/Subverters.htm

“Comparing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.”   http://www.nlbchapel.org/covenant.htm

In Christ,
pilgrim

One should not be judged on setting aside a day of worship. 

To set aside the Sabbath to proudly say I keep the Sabbath would be a personal problem.


There is much more to keeping  Sabbath than going to church.


Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


Who is the stranger within your gates?   
    The guy who mans the sewer plant on Saturday?
     How about the phone workers?
     The folks who keep the internet up?
     Maybe the people who work for the electric company?
     Ever take a drive on the Sabbath?  We have cops on the roads...
     Surly a Sabbath keeper would never 'eatout' and cause a stranger to labour.

Sabbath doesn't mean don't do work, it means don't do more than need.
Example:
Make food day before
Clean house day before

Also nurses need to work

Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


Gods Word says what is says show me the scripture that says  what you posted ...

When we dilute the scripture we loose the meaning    The Law clearly states   "shalt not do any work"  God had/has His reasons for stating the law this way..
 To my understanding this discussion really points out just how much Jesus is our Sabbath and how much man can not obey the law...

Hello Sister Reba,

They should be easy enough for anyone to find and probably even remember without looking. He's talking about the answers JESUS gave when JESUS was accused of violating the Sabbath in healing people. Thus, Brother David is talking about caring for the ill or dying, but JESUS took the examples all the way down to rescuing livestock in trouble. You should easily find accounts in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

Regardless, we aren't under the Law anyway, so it's a moot issue.

Love In Christ,
Tom

   

I think that was exactly Reba's point. 
We are under Grace and that Jesus is our Sabbath.  IF you are going to hold onto the Sabbath then do so as God intended it... Otherwise you are just picking and choosing what laws and regulations best suit you. 

 No it is not, as where Scripture specifically details laws that are abrogated as commands for righteous living, it names a certain form of laws, not purely moral laws (which are not typical in nature) but laws that were ceremonial shadows, such as "meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath," "meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation" (Col. 2:16; Heb. 9:10).

Not being under the law (Rm. 6:14) obviously does not mean that all purely moral laws are abrogated as commands for holy living, which is the error of the antinomians, for the N.T. constant affirms we are to keep the law in it's holy intent,  as revealed under the New Covenant, as we live out the faith by which we are justified by the imputed righteousness of Christ.  And only because we have as a gift that which the law demands for salvation can we be rightly motivated and enabled to fulfl  the righteousness of the law (Rm. 8:4).  But in contrast to the multiplicity of moral laws that are reiterated under the New covenant, nowhere are we commanded to keep dietary laws, nor those actions which pertained to the Temple sacrifices or outward signs such as circumcision, which were typological in nature.  But as the New Covenant enjoins keeping the moral laws of God (thus no fornicators, etc. shall inherit the kingdom of God: 1Cor. 6:9, 10),  it is manifest that it is in the sense that the law as a system of salvation, and the condemnation of it according to the O.T. salvific  requirement (Gal. 3:10), is what is done away with. As well as letter obedience where it would conflict with it's holy intent, or to obey it "according to the letter" in supposing that a legal fulfillment fulfilled the law of love, which calls us to obey it's holy purpose in it's fullest extent (don't be satisfied with a 10% tithe, but forsake all to follow Christ).  Judicial and civil laws such usually find their application under the New covenant in the spiritual sense, though the law of love in Christ Jesus may also require us to put a fence on our roof (Dt. 22:8 ), if the same danger applied that originally necessitated it 

The New covenant is not a lower standard, but calls and enables a higher one, In obeying the O.T law as interpreted under the New Covenant, we see that the  law against the sin of adultery is reiterated in the N.T. but  extends to the heart as well.  But no one can say that since the law against the sin of bestiality is not reiterated in the N.T. then we need not obey it.  And to mystically propose that since we are under the law of love then we need no more obey (as under the New Covenant) the moral law (as a category) of Moses is contrary to love, for the Mosaic law reveals what love for God and man entails. And though we obey it as understood under the New Covenant, most of the time it requires keeping it in letter as well as in spirit. It is still a sin to literally disobey nine of the ten of the 10 commandments, though we not saved by keeping them.  Nor was it the moral laws of the O.T. that Peter labeled as a burden (Acts 15:10), but the entire law, which included the multitude of abrogated typological laws (such as circumcision), as a means of salvation (Acts 15:1). That the requirements given them were only the bare essentials for redeemed souls is evident inn the epistles, and thus the value of Moses being read in the synagogues (v. 21).   

In short, we are not under the law (as an entire  unit) as a means for salvation. The law gains it's power to condemn when perfect obedience to it is made the requirement for salvation (because we fall short of that), and we are not under the law in that sense, nor bound to literal obedience to every precept of the law as a whole, but as souls justified by faith and made "accepted the the Beloved," we seek to keep the intent of law, which usually requires obedience to the letter, insofar as the moral law is concerned, yet "not according to t he letter" as if that is where it stops, but according to it's full intent.  The letter of the law offers a theoretical limit, but love is open ended.

It is in this fulfilling of the righteousness of the law - which is holy, just and good and which a righteous man loves  -  that constitutes charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.  It's lawful use according to the letter is as a means of deterring the wickedness of man's sinful heart and convicting man of sin, but for those who have come to salvation thereby and walk in newness of life, the spirit of the law is their delight,  whose obedience does not stop at the letter, where that is applicable, but in all that love for such righteousness would entail (1Tim. 1:18-21).

And in this i certainly have a very long way to go. "Brethren, pray for us." .

Brothers and Sisters,

Everything here can be boiled down to something extremely simple and easy to understand.

"The Law of Faith in JESUS CHRIST has set us free from the curse of sin and death".

JESUS CHRIST is our SABBATH 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. EVERY day belongs to HIM, so "This is another wonderful day that the LORD has made, Let us be glad and rejoice in it."

Matthew 22:36-40  NASB  "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Love In Christ,
Tom

Amen Brother BEP, couldn't say it better myself. No really I never have the words but they are in my heart.

Isn't it wonderful that we as Gentiles have been given everyday to keep Holy for the Lord our God is Holy...We do not have to go through a priest to make attonemant for our sins once a year for Jesus Christ  has paid for our sin with precious blood...everyday is to praise the Lord for what He has done and the highest praise we can give Him everyday is to give our lives to Him..

I too truly believe my rest is in Christ. For Jesus Himself told how it is written in the law that the priest PROFANED the Sabbath and are blameless. To study the OT is to know the priest WORKED ALL SEVEN DAYS doing sacrifice for themselves and the people, they never recognized a day of rest. From this scripture we know the priest themselves did not keep all the commandments. That is why the commandments were given to show us how helpless we are without a Savior and Redeemer, to show we can't keep them, to show us how much we need Christ in our lives..
As for those who claim they need to keep the whole law try to do it through their own righteousness and works, and they fail everytime. They deny Christ by laying claim that we need to keep the Law. Matt 9:12" They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick" This is why He is the Great Physician, all are sick NONE can keep all the law.
Oh I just get all worked up when I think of all He has done for me PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME he saved me from being under a law I can't keep, none of us ever where expected to keep.
And REV 1:6 .."and has made US kings and priests" speaking of what Christ has done for us. 1 Peter 2:5 Ye are, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."
If the priest in the OT profaned the Sabbath and are blameless, then I believe we, as priest who continually offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ( our Sabbath) then how could we also not be held blameless ???

Hebrews 9:1-28

AMEN JIMACKI!

CHRIST gave us HIS ALL, and HE is my ALL in ALL.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Amen, Praise God for His wonderful mercies!