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Title: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on January 31, 2007, 01:56:06 PM Apostasy And Prosperity
“And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work” (II Corinthians 9:8). One of the most tragic movements in Christendom today teaches that God promises to make each Christian prosper in material wealth. Suffice it to say, the Bible teaches no such thing, as seen in our text and elsewhere, but this false teaching is not new, and is associated with apostasy. Consider Chapters 17 and 18 of the Book of Judges, which describes a period of rampant apostasy and confusion. The chapters provide character sketches of an itinerant Levite, the tribe of Dan, and a man named Micah. First we see that Micah steals 1100 shekels of silver from his mother, who then places a curse on the unknown thief. Micah, fearing the curse, confesses the crime. His mother tries to lessen the curse by dedicating all the money to the Lord, and converts 200 shekels into an idol. Micah places the idol with his others, and consecrates his son as priest, even though they are of the tribe of Ephraim. Later, he hires the Levite to be his priest and exclaims, “Now know I that the LORD will do me good, seeing I have a Levite to my priest” (Judges 17:13). In the next chapter, spies of the Danites go to the priest for God’s blessing on their efforts to find land that they can conquer. When the marauders return, they recruit the Levite to a more prosperous position. He joins them, having stolen Micah’s idols, and establishes the tribal priesthood. Each one in this story was confident that God would bless them materially because they had the trappings of religion. The common denominator was greed. Their desire for personal prosperity led them to a prostitution of the true worship of God. But whenever religion is “used” to justify the “love of money,” it suffers degradation. “Ye cannot serve God and mammon” (Matthew 6:24). Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: EndTimeEvangelist on February 12, 2007, 12:38:00 PM Apostasy And Prosperity “And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work” (II Corinthians 9:8). One of the most tragic movements in Christendom today teaches that God promises to make each Christian prosper in material wealth. Suffice it to say, the Bible teaches no such thing, as seen in our text and elsewhere, but this false teaching is not new, and is associated with apostasy. Consider Chapters 17 and 18 of the Book of Judges, which describes a period of rampant apostasy and confusion. The chapters provide character sketches of an itinerant Levite, the tribe of Dan, and a man named Micah. First we see that Micah steals 1100 shekels of silver from his mother, who then places a curse on the unknown thief. Micah, fearing the curse, confesses the crime. His mother tries to lessen the curse by dedicating all the money to the Lord, and converts 200 shekels into an idol. Micah places the idol with his others, and consecrates his son as priest, even though they are of the tribe of Ephraim. Later, he hires the Levite to be his priest and exclaims, “Now know I that the LORD will do me good, seeing I have a Levite to my priest” (Judges 17:13). In the next chapter, spies of the Danites go to the priest for God’s blessing on their efforts to find land that they can conquer. When the marauders return, they recruit the Levite to a more prosperous position. He joins them, having stolen Micah’s idols, and establishes the tribal priesthood. Each one in this story was confident that God would bless them materially because they had the trappings of religion. The common denominator was greed. Their desire for personal prosperity led them to a prostitution of the true worship of God. But whenever religion is “used” to justify the “love of money,” it suffers degradation. “Ye cannot serve God and mammon” (Matthew 6:24). If the Prosperity teaching is an apostasy doctrine, why did God say: Beloved I wish above all things that you would prosper and be in health, even as your souls prosper in 3rd John verse 2? And why did he urge David to say: Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. in Psalm 35 verse 27? It would seem to me that IF the doctrine ogf prosperity was a doctrine of apostasy, then certainly God wou;ld never delight in the prosperity of his servants, neither would he ever wish above all things that his servants prosper! Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Brother Jerry on February 12, 2007, 01:51:46 PM End Time
The verse that PR quoted as well as those that you cited. You have to always remember their context and a couple of other items as well. In the II Cor 9 that PR cited. There is a word in there that is very very important, sufficiency. God will bring His full grace upon us so that we will have all sufficiency in all things. What we have to remember is what is sufficient. God knows what is sufficient for us, God will provide that which is sufficient for us. Even the verses you sited, we have to remember what is prosperous for us. And who designates what is prosperous. It is not us that determines that we are prosperous, or that anyone else is for that matter. It is only up to God to determine that. It is when we interject our own definitions of these things in that we come to problems. When we say that "God needs $5 million dollars to do blah blah blah" that we have problems...God does not NEED anything we have. That is sin interjecting and man saying that God needs something. There are examples after examples of how the Isrealites were prospering in their own terms, wealth, health, and power. And they grew apostic. When they truly prospered is when they were doing the will of God and prospered in their faith. That is the true prosperity gospel we should be preaching. It is not about money, cars, houses, positions, or anything else. It is only about our prospering faith. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: EndTimeEvangelist on February 12, 2007, 02:01:09 PM End Time The verse that PR quoted as well as those that you cited. You have to always remember their context and a couple of other items as well. In the II Cor 9 that PR cited. There is a word in there that is very very important, sufficiency. God will bring His full grace upon us so that we will have all sufficiency in all things. What we have to remember is what is sufficient. God knows what is sufficient for us, God will provide that which is sufficient for us. Even the verses you sited, we have to remember what is prosperous for us. And who designates what is prosperous. It is not us that determines that we are prosperous, or that anyone else is for that matter. It is only up to God to determine that. It is when we interject our own definitions of these things in that we come to problems. When we say that "God needs $5 million dollars to do blah blah blah" that we have problems...God does not NEED anything we have. That is sin interjecting and man saying that God needs something. There are examples after examples of how the Isrealites were prospering in their own terms, wealth, health, and power. And they grew apostic. When they truly prospered is when they were doing the will of God and prospered in their faith. That is the true prosperity gospel we should be preaching. It is not about money, cars, houses, positions, or anything else. It is only about our prospering faith. The statement was made that prosperity is apostasy. That would insinuate that any person who prospers, in any area of their life, has no other hope other than that of being labeled by god as an apsotate. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on February 12, 2007, 02:22:32 PM If you notice in that verse (3 John 2 ) it says "I wish". There is no promise of wealth or health. In fact it is not clear in this verse whether it is speaking of worldly riches or spiritual riches. If you look at the entire chapter of Psalm 35 you will see that David is talking of his emotional health and wealth, his inner hurting.
Being healthy and wealthy in and of itself is not an apostasy but those that say you are sick and poor because you don't have enough faith ... that is the apostasy. The only riches or health that God has promised us is not of this world. In fact He said that it was hard for a rich man to enter into heaven. Not that they can't but that it is hard. Why? Because they put their main interest into those riches and not into God. 1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. In a world that has so many poor and needy people in it how many of these health and wealth teachers do you see buying homes that are much bigger than they actually have need for yet do nothing to help their poorer brothers and sisters? Most of them will do nothing except to say I will pray for that you will have greater faith. How many truly Godly people do you see that are worldly poor or in bad physical health? I can tell you there are many in the latter group. Who is of the greater faith, the rich man that has everything easy or the poor man that trusts in God to provide for the next meal when none is in sight? How many of those that are rich and fall on bad times will immediately blame God and go by the wayside? Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on February 12, 2007, 02:26:44 PM The statement was made that prosperity is apostasy. That would insinuate that any person who prospers, in any area of their life, has no other hope other than that of being labeled by god as an apsotate. No where did I say that "prosperity is apostasy". Those are your words. It is when worldly prosperity and physical health above what is sufficient becomes the main focal point above the spiritual health and wealth of people that it becomes apostasy. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on February 12, 2007, 02:30:39 PM There are examples after examples of how the Isrealites were prospering in their own terms, wealth, health, and power. And they grew apostic. When they truly prospered is when they were doing the will of God and prospered in their faith. That is the true prosperity gospel we should be preaching. It is not about money, cars, houses, positions, or anything else. It is only about our prospering faith. AMEN! Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: EndTimeEvangelist on February 12, 2007, 02:55:37 PM No where did I say that "prosperity is apostasy". Those are your words. It is when worldly prosperity and physical health above what is sufficient becomes the main focal point above the spiritual health and wealth of people that it becomes apostasy. According to 3rd John 2, it is Gods perfect desire, intent, and will that we prosper and be in health. Any teaching contrary to Gods perfect will, IS apostasy. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on February 12, 2007, 04:19:37 PM As I already said in accordance to 3 John 2 the word is "wish" not will. The original Greek word is "euchomai", meaning wish, by implication to pray to God: - pray. So it is not necessarily "Gods perfect desire, intent, and will that we prosper and be in health" as you portend.
Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: EndTimeEvangelist on February 12, 2007, 05:07:19 PM As I already said in accordance to 3 John 2 the word is "wish" not will. The original Greek word is "euchomai", meaning wish, by implication to pray to God: - pray. So it is not necessarily "Gods perfect desire, intent, and will that we prosper and be in health" as you portend. The primary motive for every argumrent against prosperity, and health, is jeaolousy, plain and simple. Prosperity defined is having every need, Spiritual, Physical, and financial, met, adequately, and on time every time. Look that up in your Greek Dictionary, I did.... Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Brother Jerry on February 12, 2007, 05:36:42 PM No one is arguing the definition of prosperity.
But what you have to realize is that God is the ultimate definer of what is prosperity for each and every person. What happens is that when we decide that how prosperous we are is supposed to represent how faithful we are or how blessed we are by God is when we are not following the teachings of the Bible. This is what the Jews had fallen into. They were very big on financial wealth being a sign of God's blessings. We are to turn our entire lives over to God. And thus in doing so it is up to Him to decide what is prosperous for us. If God says that for me prosperity is living in a cardboard box under a bridge, then you can bet I will be thankful for what He has given me. If God says that prosperity for me is living in a $500,000 home then I will be thankful for what He has given me. It is not what I say or you say is prosperous. The Bible lets us know it is what God says is prosperous. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: EndTimeEvangelist on February 12, 2007, 05:57:04 PM No one is arguing the definition of prosperity. But what you have to realize is that God is the ultimate definer of what is prosperity for each and every person. What happens is that when we decide that how prosperous we are is supposed to represent how faithful we are or how blessed we are by God is when we are not following the teachings of the Bible. This is what the Jews had fallen into. They were very big on financial wealth being a sign of God's blessings. We are to turn our entire lives over to God. And thus in doing so it is up to Him to decide what is prosperous for us. If God says that for me prosperity is living in a cardboard box under a bridge, then you can bet I will be thankful for what He has given me. If God says that prosperity for me is living in a $500,000 home then I will be thankful for what He has given me. It is not what I say or you say is prosperous. The Bible lets us know it is what God says is prosperous. Did I ever say the definition of prosperity was being wealthy? No I did not. I said Prosperity defined is having every need, Spiritually, Physically, and Financially fully met, on time, everytime. God promises he will do this, the subject of the thread is that having Prosperity is evidence of apostasy. THAT is what the author of the thread has implied, that any person who seeks God for prosperity is an apostate..... Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Brother Jerry on February 12, 2007, 06:10:59 PM No the subject of the thread is Apostasy and Prosperity
And PR's post was about seeking prosperity to the point of greed. He cites some examples of folks that we see often in the Bible. They seek for more and more and lay claim to it because they feel they deserve it from God, because they lay claim to being Godly. He even used the term "personal prosperity" in the context of them defining for themselves what would be prosperous. PR was not implying nor stating that someone who was prosperous in material things such as money could not be a Christian, nor did he state that that persons money or good health could not or did not come from God. It is a matter of who is defining the prosperity and that was the message of PR's post. Those people were greedy and using the trappings of religion (they brought in a Levite so that God would be happy), not that God told them to, but just so they would have it. And thinking that once they did that then God would have to bless them with more money. What is wrong is to think or preach that unless you are wealthy and healthy then you are faithful to God. And that the poorer you are the sicker you are physically means that you are not walking with God. That is placing our own ideas of prosperity of that which God deems. And that is wrong. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Faithin1 on March 09, 2007, 12:28:59 PM I always find it interesting that two people can read the same information and have totally different perceptions of the content. I did not interpret Pastor Roger's thread as being anti-prosperity or that he considers prosperity to be synonymous with apostasy. My interpretation is that today there is a prosperity movement in many Christian churches that emphasizes wealth, with the contention that those who are lacking wealth are somehow less faithful than those who aren't. I personally have encountered such ministries. Generally, the pastor exudes worldly prosperity, ie. luxury cars, expensive home, etc. Don't misunderstand me, I am not opposed to a pastor having money or living well. However, I do have a problem with ministries that emphasize material wealth as prosperity. Such ministries often have sermon after sermon on nothing other than prosperity, quoting scripture out of context to legitimize their extravagant lifestyles. Another theme that tends to be prevalent in prosperity ministries is the notion that the more money one gives to the church, the greater the return will be from God. We cannot "buy" blessings.
Yes, God does want us to prosper and live an abundant life. I do no profess to be a Bible scholar, I simply rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall God exclusively equating prosperity or an abundant life with material wealth. Quite the contrary. In addition, prosperity is a relative term that differs with each individual. Whatever the case may be, our prosperity should be to glorify God, not ourselves. Matthew (19:24), Mark (10:25) and Luke (18:25) are clear indications of God's view of self-centered wealth. Caution must be used to avoid confusing material wealth with prosperity in God's eyes. There are many wealthy atheists, and there are many wealthy people who consider themselves Christian simply because they regularly attend church. Many of these "good" Christians have never considered using their wealth to help the less fortunate, other than for public accolades or as a tax deduction. Nor would they consider volunteering their time to help feed the hungry, or spend time holding an abandoned baby in a hospital ward, or run errands for the elderly. Scripture taken out of context has been used for centuries to further the agenda of those who are not operating in the true will of God. Mat 7:21-23 Not every one that saith Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on March 09, 2007, 01:03:32 PM Amen.
Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Brother Jerry on March 09, 2007, 04:26:20 PM Amen.
I mean what was it that Christ sent the Apostles out with. Their sandals, their robe, and a walking stick. He did not say to take their money. He did not say that they should gather lots of money. He said to spread the Word. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on March 09, 2007, 05:01:01 PM AMEN!
Luk 3:11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. 1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. 1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. It doesn't appear to me that Jesus called for all of to be rich in worldly possessions at all. Again and again He spoke of the need for Heavenly riches and giving all of our excess to the poor. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Brother Jerry on March 11, 2007, 03:59:11 AM Amen
There is so much in the Bible that is plainly written that God is not interested in worldly riches. And that Jesus Himself did not preach the "prosperity gospel", so if you find yourself at a church service and the preacher is preaching a sermon that says that to show that you are right with God you have to have a Cadillac and a 2Karat diamond, then I say get out now cause that is a road to deception. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 11, 2007, 05:21:55 AM Brothers and Sisters,
It does make me angry to hear preachers tell their congregations that they aren't right with the LORD if they are poor or ill. Some of the strongest Christians I know are either very poor or ill. As Christians, we are NOT to love the things of this world. Our riches during this life are in CHRIST and we await our real citizenship in Heaven. We also weren't promised health during this life. In fact, we were promised the opposite. The Apostle Paul said that the entire creation groaneth together in pain, and Paul suffered from a thorn in the flesh for many years of his ministry. Paul prayed that God would remove it, but that obviously wasn't GOD'S Will. We will all get sick and eventually die unless JESUS comes first and takes us home. The last time I heard an entire sermon about illness being a sure sign that the person wasn't right with GOD was like a side show at the circus. The preacher was wearing glasses, so I wonder how many shortcomings he had with GOD. In my opinion, many preachers make GOD a cheap dog and pony show for personal gain. They go to doctors and hospitals just like everyone else, and they are the worst kind of hypocrites. PLEASE - don't think that I even hint about limiting the power of GOD to do as HE Will in Heaven and or Earth. I am positive that GOD does whatever HE wants to for HIS Children, and all of us have been recipients of HIS Blessings many times. ALMIGHTY GOD is still ALMIGHTY, but no man commands HIM, and GOD isn't for sale. I'm also not limiting the power of PRAYER. BUT, I would tell every Christian that we have no need of a priest or a go-between. Christians can have an immediate audience with GOD 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The HOLY SPIRIT of GOD lives in our hearts, and we can have minute by minute fellowship with JESUS CHRIST, our LORD and Saviour. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF is our Mediator, and the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD helps us to pray when we don't know how. We don't need some snake-oil salesman to contact GOD for us. As Christians, we are sons and daughters of the KING OF KINGS and have full access to the THRONE OF GRACE 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. PLEASE: I also don't make any hint that the prayers of others for us are not important. GOD loves to hear our prayers for each other. This is a part of our love for each other and our recognition of GOD as MASTER OVER ALL THINGS! Many of the preachers who commercialize GOD and actually have GOD for sale are little more than circus clowns and con men. Many of them aren't even saved and simply put on a show for money. This is simply the ugly truth and many people are in NEED OF THE TRUTH. WORSE YET - many of these circus clowns and con men are actually agents of the devil. Please remember that the devil CAN quote Scripture, but it is through the powers of darkness - NOT LIGHT! I realize that I might have stepped on some toes, and that's fine! I would rather that some people be upset at me than the TRUTH to be withheld from them. TEST the SPIRITS, as many of them are NOT from GOD. Love In Christ, Tom John 10:8-10 NASB "All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Faithin1 on March 11, 2007, 04:58:26 PM Amen! The number of churches being infiltrated by Satan is astonishing. Those who are ignorant to the Word, are easily manipulated by charlatans who attach a monetary requirement to blessings from God and prey on those with serious illnesses. I watched a program where a couple with a seriously ill child had been told by a TV evangelist that God had "told him" that if they sent him $250 per month, their child would be healed. This poor couple sent him money for several months. Sadly, their child died. I was so appalled I sent a scathing letter to this devil. Of course, I never received a response, but I felt compelled to voice my opinion. And yes, he is still on the air.
Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 11, 2007, 05:44:16 PM Hello Faithin1,
The stewardship of money is many times a good way to initially look at a ministry. As an example, I know of television evangelists who own several multi-million dollar mansions, drive $100,000 cars, and live in $10,000 a night hotels. The same is true for their clothing, jewelry, and all kinds of other worldly goods they surround themselves with. YET, they will be happy to take more money from people living on fixed incomes who might have to go without prescribed medications to make their offerings. Nobody can convince me that GOD intended HIS pastors, ministers, evangelists, missionaries, and other servants to live in such lavish, extravagant ways. How could a servant of GOD live in such a manner and know at the same time that many are without the basic necessities of life? I'm not hinting that it's wrong for a servant of GOD to live at a reasonable level of comfort. I would simply ask, "How could a real servant of GOD live an outrageously lavish life and know that many were starving to death?" These things should give us a hint. Love In Christ, Tom Galatians 2:20 NASB "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Faithin1 on March 13, 2007, 11:55:03 AM Amen! Amen! Amen!
Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: kerrylou1 on March 13, 2007, 11:38:53 PM Isn't it interesting how the talk of certain subjects can get our ire up. When I was 17 I learned Psalm 1 off by heart - because the Lord was speaking to me by it. I shared it with my friend Gary quoting verse 3 where it says, "Whatever he does will prosper." He quietly warned me that people would think I was a "prosperity preacher". I had never heard of them. I like Paul's lesson the best: "I have learned both to abound and to be abased". Can we learn that lesson too?
Lightening destroyed the computer I had given our small church. My pastor is on the local community radio and depended on the computer I had set up for him to prepare his program. I said to my wife, "I will have to buy another one." "we can't afford it," she argued, "Look, I might be losing my money soon." I told her I could not leave the house of God in disrepair and I must make sure that there is "meat in the house of God". Not physical meat, but spiritual. This is a gospel arm of the church and to neglect it may condemn many to hell. I told her I believed God would cover the cost of the computer and we shouldn't worry about the future and her income. I bought the computer on hire purchase because I don't have money lying about like that. God has increased my business to cover the cost of the computer and more. Am I prosperous? You bet! I am prospering in the love and grace of God and I ask for no more. Love, Kerry Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Soldier4Christ on March 13, 2007, 11:56:50 PM Amen! Your focal point was not in lining your pockets with silver and gold but rather to lay up riches in heaven, the riches of many lost souls. We are told that God will provide and He most assuredly does do that.
Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 14, 2007, 12:45:38 AM Brothers and Sisters,
Many of the richest people I've met in my life didn't have two pennies to rub together. Reading this thread has brought back many pleasant memories, and I'm thinking about many sweet Christians right now who never experienced any of the world's wealth in this short life. BUT, they will have mansions in Heaven for eternity with JESUS. Love In Christ, Tom Psalms 111:2 NASB Great are the works of the LORD; They are studied by all who delight in them. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: kerrylou1 on March 15, 2007, 10:21:06 PM Brothers and Sisters, BUT, they will have mansions in Heaven for eternity with JESUS. Dear Tom, I just beamed when I read your emphasis. I once told a group of people I was speaking to that I am a real estate agent of heaven, and that I'm here to offer them a prestigious mansion in the best city one could ever hope to live in (and they'll live for all eternity!). I am even happy to give them the best I have - the ones closest to Jesus and the river of His blessing - and will content myself to live on the edges of the outer suburbs of the Heavenly Jerusalem because I know that the humblest abode up there will outshine the best palace this world could offer. As you probably realise I then went on to share the Gospel and how, by faith and because of God's abundant grace they might avail themselves of one. "It's a gift," I told them, "But it will cost you everything. You cannot purchase it but, neither can you bring your worldly baggage with you. You must surrender all for Christ and you will receive all He has for you." One thing we all can be sure of: we'll miss nothing for Christ is everything. Thanks for the happy memory, Kerry Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 15, 2007, 10:47:03 PM Hello Brother Kerry,
I have a couple of posts that I've posted before, but they are incredibly beautiful portions of the Holy Bible and I don't think that anyone will get upset with me for posting them again. We can read these precious portions of Scripture and only imagine what it will really be like. _____________________________ (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i160/tlr10/relig/relig039.gif) Revelation 21:1 NASB Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. Revelation 21:2 NASB And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:3 NASB And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i160/tlr10/relig/relig150.gif) KEEP LOOKING UP! THE RAPTURE WILL BE A REALITY! 1 Thessalonians 4:13 NASB But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 NASB For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:15 NASB For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:18 NASB Therefore comfort one another with these words. ____________________________ 1 Corinthians 15:50 NASB Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:51 NASB Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52 NASB in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:53 NASB For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:54 NASB But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 1 Corinthians 15:55 NASB "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" 1 Corinthians 15:56 NASB The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 1 Corinthians 15:57 NASB but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:58 NASB Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord. He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, Revelation 21:4 NASB and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." Revelation 21:5 NASB And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." Revelation 21:6 NASB Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. Revelation 21:7 NASB "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. Revelation 21:8 NASB "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:9 NASB Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." Revelation 21:10 NASB And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, Revelation 21:11 NASB having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. Revelation 21:12 NASB It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. Revelation 21:13 NASB There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. Revelation 21:14 NASB And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:15 NASB The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall. Revelation 21:16 NASB The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal. Revelation 21:17 NASB And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements. Revelation 21:18 NASB The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. Revelation 21:19 NASB The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; Revelation 21:20 NASB the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst. Revelation 21:21 NASB And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. Revelation 21:22 NASB I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Revelation 21:23 NASB And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. Revelation 21:24 NASB The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. Revelation 21:25 NASB In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; Revelation 21:26 NASB and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; Revelation 21:27 NASB and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 15, 2007, 10:50:22 PM (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i160/tlr10/relig/relig041.gif) Revelation 22:1 NASB Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, Revelation 22:2 NASB in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:3 NASB There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; Revelation 22:4 NASB they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. Revelation 22:5 NASB And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever. Revelation 22:6 NASB And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:7 NASB "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:8 NASB I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 15, 2007, 10:56:42 PM Brothers and Sisters, the Scriptures speak for themselves and the previous portions of Scripture are most beautiful. I've also posted the below before, but it's been a long time. There is a bad side to the story also for those who died in their sins without JESUS CHRIST. I mourn for them, but all we can do is keep sharing and praying that they accept the Perfect GIFT of JESUS before it's too late.
_________________________________ THE DAY OF THE LORD 2 Peter 3:3 NASB Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 2 Peter 3:4 NASB and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." 2 Peter 3:5 NASB For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 2 Peter 3:6 NASB through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 2 Peter 3:7 NASB But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:8 NASB But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 2 Peter 3:9 NASB The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:10 NASB But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:11 NASB Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 2 Peter 3:12 NASB looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 2 Peter 3:13 NASB But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 15, 2007, 10:59:50 PM THE LAST DAYS 2 Joel 3:1 NASB "For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, Joel 3:2 NASB I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land. Joel 3:3 NASB "They have also cast lots for My people, Traded a boy for a harlot And sold a girl for wine that they may drink. Joel 3:4 NASB "Moreover, what are you to Me, O Tyre, Sidon and all the regions of Philistia? Are you rendering Me a recompense? But if you do recompense Me, swiftly and speedily I will return your recompense on your head. Joel 3:5 NASB "Since you have taken My silver and My gold, brought My precious treasures to your temples, Joel 3:6 NASB and sold the sons of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks in order to remove them far from their territory, Joel 3:7 NASB behold, I am going to arouse them from the place where you have sold them, and return your recompense on your head. Joel 3:8 NASB "Also I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the sons of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, to a distant nation," for the LORD has spoken. Joel 3:9 NASB Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare a war; rouse the mighty men! Let all the soldiers draw near, let them come up! Joel 3:10 NASB Beat your plowshares into swords And your pruning hooks into spears; Let the weak say, "I am a mighty man." Joel 3:11 NASB Hasten and come, all you surrounding nations, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones. Joel 3:12 NASB Let the nations be aroused And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, For there I will sit to judge All the surrounding nations. Joel 3:13 NASB Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, tread, for the wine press is full; The vats overflow, for their wickedness is great. Joel 3:14 NASB Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Joel 3:15 NASB The sun and moon grow dark And the stars lose their brightness. Joel 3:16 NASB The LORD roars from Zion And utters His voice from Jerusalem, And the heavens and the earth tremble. But the LORD is a refuge for His people And a stronghold to the sons of Israel. Joel 3:17 NASB Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain. So Jerusalem will be holy, And strangers will pass through it no more. Joel 3:18 NASB And in that day The mountains will drip with sweet wine, And the hills will flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah will flow with water; And a spring will go out from the house of the LORD To water the valley of gotcha2tim. Joel 3:19 NASB Egypt will become a waste, And Edom will become a desolate wilderness, Because of the violence done to the sons of Judah, In whose land they have shed innocent blood. Joel 3:20 NASB But Judah will be inhabited forever And Jerusalem for all generations. Joel 3:21 NASB And I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged, For the LORD dwells in Zion. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 15, 2007, 11:03:27 PM THE LAST DAYS 3 Zechariah 14:1 NASB Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. Zechariah 14:2 NASB For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Zechariah 14:3 NASB Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. Zechariah 14:4 NASB In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. Zechariah 14:5 NASB You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him! Zechariah 14:6 NASB In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. Zechariah 14:7 NASB For it will be a unique day which is known to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light. Zechariah 14:8 NASB And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter. Zechariah 14:9 NASB And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one. Zechariah 14:10 NASB All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses. Zechariah 14:11 NASB People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security. Zechariah 14:12 NASB Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. Zechariah 14:13 NASB It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another's hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another. Zechariah 14:14 NASB Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. Zechariah 14:15 NASB So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps. Zechariah 14:16 NASB Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. Zechariah 14:17 NASB And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. Zechariah 14:18 NASB If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. Zechariah 14:19 NASB This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. Zechariah 14:20 NASB In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, "HOLY TO THE LORD." And the cooking pots in the LORD'S house will be like the bowls before the altar. Zechariah 14:21 NASB Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day. Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 15, 2007, 11:05:26 PM THE LAST DAYS 4 Isaiah 2:1 NASB The word which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:2 NASB Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. Isaiah 2:3 NASB And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:4 NASB And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. Isaiah 2:5 NASB Come, house of Jacob, and let us walk in the light of the LORD. Isaiah 2:6 NASB For You have abandoned Your people, the house of Jacob, Because they are filled with influences from the east, And they are soothsayers like the Philistines, And they strike bargains with the children of foreigners. Isaiah 2:7 NASB Their land has also been filled with silver and gold And there is no end to their treasures; Their land has also been filled with horses And there is no end to their chariots. Isaiah 2:8 NASB Their land has also been filled with idols; They worship the work of their hands, That which their fingers have made. Isaiah 2:9 NASB So the common man has been humbled And the man of importance has been abased, But do not forgive them. Isaiah 2:10 NASB Enter the rock and hide in the dust From the terror of the LORD and from the splendor of His majesty. Isaiah 2:11 NASB The proud look of man will be abased And the loftiness of man will be humbled, And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:12 NASB For the LORD of hosts will have a day of reckoning Against everyone who is proud and lofty And against everyone who is lifted up, That he may be abased. Isaiah 2:13 NASB And it will be against all the cedars of Lebanon that are lofty and lifted up, Against all the oaks of Bashan, Isaiah 2:14 NASB Against all the lofty mountains, Against all the hills that are lifted up, Isaiah 2:15 NASB Against every high tower, Against every fortified wall, Isaiah 2:16 NASB Against all the ships of Tarshish And against all the beautiful craft. Isaiah 2:17 NASB The pride of man will be humbled And the loftiness of men will be abased; And the LORD alone will be exalted in that day, Isaiah 2:18 NASB But the idols will completely vanish. Isaiah 2:19 NASB Men will go into caves of the rocks And into holes of the ground Before the terror of the LORD And the splendor of His majesty, When He arises to make the earth tremble. Isaiah 2:20 NASB In that day men will cast away to the moles and the bats Their idols of silver and their idols of gold, Which they made for themselves to worship, Isaiah 2:21 NASB In order to go into the caverns of the rocks and the clefts of the cliffs Before the terror of the LORD and the splendor of His majesty, When He arises to make the earth tremble. Isaiah 2:22 NASB Stop regarding man, whose breath of life is in his nostrils; For why should he be esteemed? Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: nChrist on March 15, 2007, 11:17:21 PM THE LAST DAYS 5 Isaiah 13:1 NASB The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw. Isaiah 13:2 NASB Lift up a standard on the bare hill, Raise your voice to them, Wave the hand that they may enter the doors of the nobles. Isaiah 13:3 NASB I have commanded My consecrated ones, I have even called My mighty warriors, My proudly exulting ones, To execute My anger. Isaiah 13:4 NASB A sound of tumult on the mountains, Like that of many people! A sound of the uproar of kingdoms, Of nations gathered together! The LORD of hosts is mustering the army for battle. Isaiah 13:5 NASB They are coming from a far country, From the farthest horizons, The LORD and His instruments of indignation, To destroy the whole land. Isaiah 13:6 NASB Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty. Isaiah 13:7 NASB Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt. Isaiah 13:8 NASB They will be terrified, Pains and anguish will take hold of them; They will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, Their faces aflame. Isaiah 13:9 NASB Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. Isaiah 13:10 NASB For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light. Isaiah 13:11 NASB Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. Isaiah 13:12 NASB I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir. Isaiah 13:13 NASB Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger. Isaiah 13:14 NASB And it will be that like a hunted gazelle, Or like sheep with none to gather them, They will each turn to his own people, And each one flee to his own land. Isaiah 13:15 NASB Anyone who is found will be thrust through, And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Isaiah 13:16 NASB Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces Before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished. Isaiah 13:17 NASB Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold. Isaiah 13:18 NASB And their bows will mow down the young men, They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, Nor will their eye pity children. Isaiah 13:19 NASB And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. Isaiah 13:20 NASB It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, Nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there. Isaiah 13:21 NASB But desert creatures will lie down there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches also will live there, and shaggy goats will frolic there. Isaiah 13:22 NASB Hyenas will howl in their fortified towers And jackals in their luxurious palaces. Her fateful time also will soon come And her days will not be prolonged. Brothers and Sisters, those who mock will cease. Our CREATOR - ALMIGHTY GOD promised these things will take place, and THEY WILL! These days might be soon. STOP! and consider whether you will accept JESUS before it's too late! DO IT NOW! and please feel free to ask questions on the forum. JESUS does love you and HE died on a CROSS for you. JESUS holds HIS arms out to you now, and HE wants to forgive you of your sins, regardless of how bad they might be. HIS Blood from the CROSS will wash your sins away. Won't you accept JESUS CHRIST as your LORD and Saviour today? Love In Christ, Tom John 1:1-4 NASB In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. John 11:25 NASB Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, John 14:6-7 NASB Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Galatians 2:20 NASB "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 1 John 1:1-4 NASB What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life -- and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us -- what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete. (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i160/tlr10/reli2/Reli2036.gif) Title: Re: Apostasy And Prosperity Post by: Faithin1 on March 16, 2007, 03:39:02 PM Amen, brother Tom! Thank you for posting.
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