ChristiansUnite Forums

Hi all.

Just a little question for everyone.

I was in my dorm room with my roommate and her boyfriend the other day (her boyfriend has been harassing me CONSTANTLY about everything - he's terribly cruel) so finally I got exasperated and told him that he was obligated to be nice.  The conversation went something like this (no exaggeration, I swear):

me: ____, you HAVE to be nice to me.
him: No, I don't HAVE to be nice to you.
me: Yes you do.  It has to do with what you do every Sunday.
him: I go to church.  What does being Christian have to do with this?
me: You're a Christian - you supposed to be nice to people and be a good person.
him: Nope.  All I have to do is accept Jesus.  I can be as mean to you as I like.  I just have to account for it when I die.  
me: So when you account for it, do you get in trouble?
him: Nope.  I just account for it and go straight to heaven.  You, on the other hand, go to hell.

And my roommate just sat there and nodded!!!  They were serious!!!  They basically said that ALL they have to do is believe in Jesus and BAM - straight one-way ticket to heaven!  Regardless of your character and morals!

Now...I KNOW the whole speech about "AAAA - being a good person won't get you into heaven.  You have to accept Jesus."  But I at least thought that accepting Jesus meant that you had to at least be a nice person as well.

Is this true?  Can my roommate's boyfriend harass me daily and make my life a living hell but once he gets to heaven, he says a little "oops - sorry!" and then goes right to heaven?

~AAAA

No, you don't have to be a nice person. None of us is always nice. BUT, if a person truly has the holy Spirit in him, the Holy Spirit convicts us when our attitudes aren't in God's will. He is alos right that we are accountable for our actions when we die. I suspect that either he was resentful of you trying to control him or, he really hasn't accepted Jesus.

    AAAAmember;
    It's true that you have to belive, and accept Jesus Christ, but not all who say that they are christains are so.
    A true christains have the Holy Spirt in them and It leads them in there lives. As to your room mate, and her boy friend I would say they don't have the friuts of the Holy Spirt.

  MT 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
  MT 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
  MT 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
  MT 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Forrest -

Well if that's true, then there's no way this kid's going to heaven.  He's making my life a living hell.  

~AAAA

It sounds like you might have to be doing the converting, AAAA.   ;D

Your friend(s) there are apparently just using the Jesus thing as a license.  Certainly lots of us around doing that--"Ye shall know them by their fruits".

Sorry about his giving you a hard time.  He's mad at you about something but ain't tellin'.

Christian behaviour is very clearly laid out in the epistles and by Jesus too:  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...(somewhere in Luke...)...

Didn't you know? All you have to do is have faith to be saved. Works, sherks ;) Just ask Petro.

lol j/k

I really don't know what your idea of nice is nor how he's harrasing you.  You have claimed we harass you to be Christian.  I doubt this is what he is doing but a few things could be possible.

What are you saying to provoke it.  I am only hearing your side of things and based on your attitude in these forums I doubt you are shall we say "polite" to him.  You really don't seem to like openly Christian people so I wouldn't put it past you to make snide remarks and the like.  You could deffinately be a passive agressive.

Anyhow all that aside they could be young in faith, or quite simply not truly be saved.  If one has a new heart then they WILL NOT be the same as they were.  I only have a snipit of your conversation and know not how it has al lead to where it is.  You must've only just graduted last year, so I can't see you being in college for more than 2 months.  Getting yourself into trouble already.   ;)

I've known saved men who've left God and family to pursue their own lusts.  I've known saved women who have no problem gossiping to the point of actually tearing someone down.  I've seen pastors have to leave because of the accusations and slander of "believers."  Human beings are sinful whether saved or not.  Now, to rest in this position and behave presumptuously will have it's own consequences.  There is an account to be given for our actions on earth before our Lord some day.  That boyfriend will stand before God someday and give an account.  What he is doing is "wood, hay, and stubble."  Such things will be "burned away."  Do I mean a pergatory of sorts?  No.  But the passage is clear.  Many I've spoken with believe this to be the very gaze of God upon their sinful actions.  I even used to joke with my college roomie, that he'd be nothing more than a pile of ash before God someday!

May I ask what his harrassment is?

Galatians 5:
14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Matthew 5:
44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Luke 10:25-37 The Parable of the Good Samaritan

Well, this is true.  There is such thing as backsliding, you can be saved without doing works.

I really don't know if most people realize how much they sin everyday, including Christians. The idea that Christians are perfect is one of the most distorted notions in Christianity. None of us loves our neighbors all the time. ALL of us have lusts. The precept behind Christianity is that Christians are CONVICTED when we do such things and God slowly changes our hearts. Every time we open our mouths, we betray our humanity. That is why we need forgiveness so much. There isn't one perfect Christian among us except Christ. The biggest difference between Christians and non Christians is that Christians ADMIT they sin. If non -Christians would look at how much they sin and admit it, they wouldn't be so hard on us Christians. But instead, they are so involved with pointing their fingers at us, they don't have the time or the love from God to admit their sins. The expectation that Christians have to be perfect is a device used to keep from looking at their own sin.

Hey AAAAmember

Tell your roommate and her boyfriend to keep up the good work.

"Grace & Peace"

huh, A4C?   ???


Tibby, I think sherks is spelled scherks.


  (hehe-- 8))

Or a scher-zo, but then again its hard to know what tibby means, since his comprehension level is zero;

he swells up when informing everyone he is a college student, ...........it's hard to know if this is true...

Me thinks he has a swollen head..

Petro

Yes, maybe um,  scherks, like in schmuck??


    (hehe--couldn't resist, tibby.  Just kiddin'.... :))

Heidi, I agree: we all sin. I'm concerned that this guy is not really a Christian, though; so lowering the bar may not be the route to go on this, for it is written:

 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.  I John 2:9

similarly:

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?  I John 4:20

I think he needs to take a look at these, plus other verses that clearly point out that we are done with sin, that if we say we should go on sinning that grace may abound, the truth isn't in us.

 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.  Romans 6:23

 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?  Romans 6:1-2

AAAAmember, can you tell us what happened before this to make him declare this? Was it a doctrinal issue? What made him say such a thing?

I'm just as lost as y'all are about why he hates me so much - it has absolutely nothing to do with religion.  He makes fun of the way I talk (I'm from the north, this school is in the south), my intelligence, my appearance, my social skills, my relationships, my everything.  He has called me everything from a liar to a whore to a b*tch, has placed giant insects on my desk, in my face and in my hair, has messed with my cell phone while I was at class one day and changed it to spanish, has turned my posters upside down and re-hung them, and has generally made my life a living hell.  Even my roommate is confused - when she asks him why he's so cruel he can't give her a reason, and when she asks him to be nice he *cries* and accuses her of taking my side...he's told her multiple times that I'm hurting their relationship!!!

It's gotten so bad that I recently applied for a room change but unfortunately I found out today that all of the dorms are full...with waiting lists. :P So I'm stuck.  My roommate's not the problem - she's awesome, but her boyfriend is a JERK.  He's made me so miserable that I've even thought of transferring schools.  He's made me cry more times than I can count.

Sound like the model Christian to you?

A4C - nice sarcasm, but it wasn't called for.

~AAAA

It seems the key is in the fact that he feels you're getting in the way of their relationship. If your roommate has confided in you about their relationship, that may give you some clues. It's quite possible that you are having a good influence on your roommate. Maybe she's sticking to her values and her boyfriend is nonplussed with that.

One idea is to talk to him without your roommate there to add to the balance one way or another. Maybe you could let her know you're planning on talking to him, and then go knock on his door before they have any chance to discuss it; ask him why he is angry.

If you speak gently and take a spirit of compassion and concern (as hard as I know that will be) he is more likely to confide in you. Try to see how he is looking at it even though he is completely in the wrong-because then he is more likely to be honest. It's a good idea to do this after you've forgiven him so you won't feel tempted to use it against him next time he offends you.

I hope that helps; I don't know the situation etiher, so I'm just guessing. What I'm wondering is, is your roommate a Christian? Because it seems she's dating someone who is not. Maybe your roommate is your one link to this guy. If so, the problem proabably exists there, whether for good or not. Especially if you don't know why he is angry with you.

But it seems she's jumping back and forth between the two of you, agreeing with him about his social obligations, and yet he says she's siding with you.

I find the actions of this guy an embarrassment to Christianity. Just because he claims Christ it doesn’t mean he is one of His.  
We are not to judge who is or who is not saved because only God knows the heart. From what you have said the evidence of salvation is lacking in him.
Unfortunately most churches today teach a false gospel of works. As long as you do the work of accepting Christ as your savior; believe, confess, repent, whatever work your church requires, you are saved.
This is very unfortunate for so many people.

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What Matthew 7 is telling us is many people who confess Jesus is their Lord were never His people.
When God saves us He removes the love we have for sin. It is called being born again. He gives us a new heart.

Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20  That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Notice that the result of this new heart is to walk in obedience. If we are saved it is something we do with pleasure. If we are unsaved we seek our happiness in sin.
The bible tells us to test ourselves to see if we are saved.

2 Corinthians 13:5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

We can’t set up our own test so God tells us how to test.

1 John 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Romans 7:22-25 teaches us we will still sin but it doesn’t give us pleasure.
What you have said about this guy says, to me, that either he doesn’t know what he is doing is wrong, or he is not saved. If he is saved God will deal with him, in this life. He does chastise His children.

Hebrews 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Hebrews 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Hebrews 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

If some one is not saved He will deal with them in the next life. The unsaved will be cast in to outer darkness. Nothing of God will be found there. No light. No love. No companionship. Only despair.
Jesus was especially hard on the hypocrites.

Hebrews 10:26.  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

AAAA,

You question is a very valid one, and to be honest, not one anyone can answer in this board.  We don't know the whole story and the day to day interactions that go on between you two.  No matter his apparent justification, I admit that what he is doing wrong ... Christian or no Christian.  

So ... I admit he is wrong ... and I admit that I have no clue why he does what he does ... and ... I don't think anyone here can make any assumptions on his salvation.  No one here knows his heart.  I say all of this to set up an apparent explaination to his behavior, since you have asked 'why'.

When a person becomes saved, Romans tells us that we are set free from the penalty of sin, and the power of sin (but not the precense).  This means that we are forgiven and it is not held against us.  "Released from the power" means that we now have a choice to sin or not.  Before we are saved, we do not have the power to not sin.  One, because mostly we don't know what sin is, and two ... it is inherently who we are.  Now after we are saved, we move into a "sanctification" process.  This is a big word that just means we are being convicted to change things in our life.  When I first became saved, there were a great many things in my life I started changing.  It didn't happen over night and it wasn't quick.  I use to cuss alot.  It took a while to get over that.  Part of the problem is that our bodies have formed habits (some call this bondage).  It's kind of like an addiction our minds and bodies have and it takes time to kick those habits.  This time that we are working on these habits is the "sanctification" process.  This young man is/has been dealing with hateful feelings towards a particular group of people that he is associating you with.  He may not even see this behavior as a sin.  I know there are things I see as sin today, that I did not see as sin 5 years ago.  I think that he is young, and has a lot to learn.  He is weak in his knowledge of the Bible if he can justify doing what ever he wants.  He needs to read Romans 6.  Paul ask are we to continue in our sin because we are saved?  ... "May it never be!!" Paul says.  In chapter 6 Paul addresses the people who believed they could do whatever they wanted because they are saved.

I agree that what this young man is doing is wrong.  This is his particular habit that he has to break, and deal with.  I am dealing with my own mental habits and I would guess that every single member of this board has a mental or physical bondage they are dealing with.  Yes ... I'm forgiven.  No .... it does not justify continuing doing it.

I don't know the answer for you because I don't really know your heart.  If you really don't care and you really don't want to make up with him and really don't want to forgive him and want to remain as things are (which I don't think based on your posts), then just let things remain as they are.  But ... if you want there to be peace between you and (if possible) a friendship, then I agree with a previous poster.  I say you should forgive him in your heart.  Accept that he is wrong in his justification and he has done so because of ignorance of the doctrine of Grace.  Then when you are at peace in your heart, go to him and talk with him.  No matter how irate he gets, no matter how justified you may feel ... continue to talk to him in a calm manner and explain how he makes you feel.  Explain that you want things to change.  Explain that you want to know if there is anything you two can do to change this situation.  Don't throw Christianity in his face in a negative way.  That will only put him on the defensive.  But, if you can say it lovingly, you can say something like "Do you think Jesus would want us to be friends?"   Remember ... "Blessed are the peace-makers" Jesus tells us.

I feel for you and your situation, and I hope things work out.  Keep us up to date, I'm sure many of us would love to hear if your relationship with him changes for the better in any way.

I hope you have a great day.

Do you guys have a football team there.  If you do, tell 2 of the biggest lineman you have that so-n-so is picking on you, and let them do the rest.  Don't worry.  Problem solved.   ;D

This entire reply was well written, and I agree with your presentation, however my understanding was he knew what he was doing was wrong. He just figured being 'saved' gave him license to hurt.

I’ve got an idea. If he is still moving your posters around why not print up some of these verses that some have shared with you and put them on the wall behind the poster. Like this one from OllieOr these:

James 1:12  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
1 John 4:12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
James 2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 
I am sure there are many more you could add. Hide them all over the place. Places he would only see if he was sticking his nose where it doesn’t belong.

Good idea, LC.  I like mine better though....

I agree that he probably isn't a Christian. In that case, he's probably a tortured soul, either from intense jealousy or low sel-esteem. If you can see him from the perspective of bitter unhappiness, AAAA, you will feel intense sorrow for him rather than be offended by him. I would simply try to stay away from him rather than engage in a power struggle that you're surely going to lose because he is capable of going to lower depths to hurt you than you are to hurt him. If you try to hurt him, it will backfire because he will accuse you of being no better than him.  The best way to deal with him is simply to acknowledge, not to him, but just to yourself, just how miserable he is and pray for him. If you acknowledge it to him, then it will only anger him because he will see it as you trying  to hurt him.  Then you're still playing his game which he obviously loves. Only when you ignore him will he have no reason to continue the game.

GO WITH THE FOOTBALL PLAYERS!!!
(http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/bandevil.gif)

I say he is not fully aware of what he is saying because he doesn't seem to grasp that salvation does not give him free reign to sin.  Somewhere along the line, he has gotten a wrong doctrine on what Grace means.  He may say he knows it's a sin, but his isn't grasping what this means.

I disagree with anyone who says this person is not saved.  You do not know that.  All of us Christians have done stuff that is very un-Christian.  Is there no one here who has gossiped, use sarcasm in a mean way, talked about people behind their back, looked down on certain individuals.  Is there no one on this board who has sinned and fully knew that it was wrong as they continued to do it?  If we looked long enough at each individual's actions, we could possible come to the conclusion that no one is saved.  We have all been hypocrites from time to time.  I ask you to hold your judgement (like we have any right to judge a man's salvation) and accept that this man is struggling with stuff like we all do.  Let's agree that what he is doing it un-Christian like, but to say that he is not saved is very unfair.  If you looked at my life shortly after I was saved, you might have come to that same conclusion about me.  God worked with me after my salvation and it took time to get to where I am now.  God was patient with me even when others were not.  We have no right to judge this man's salvation based on a couple of posts and based on this one trait of bad behavior.

I also do not agree that AAAA should just ignore him.  That does not solve the problem.  Normally, people don't like confrontation.  I can understand that.  If we left all the angry, mean people to their own devices, then what are we doing here on earth?  Why don't we (Christians) just kill ourselves now?  Paul hinted at this in Phillipians 1:21-25.  Because we know we have a purpose here on earth.  To show Christ to others.  To be the body of Christ here on earth.  We are not called to walk away from sinners (although I'm sure someone can pull a few verses that say we are).  If you look at Christianity as a whole, we are to love everyone.  We are to not judge anyone (especially their salvation).  Romans 8:34 - "Who is the one who condemns?"  Christianity is about relationships with people.  It is about love.  It is about being peace makers.  Luke 12:58 tells us to make peace with our opponents before we go to the judge (who is God).  My advice is to make peace with this man and through your obedience to God and peace, you will both be blessed.

It's gotten so bad that I recently applied for a room change but unfortunately I found out today that all of the dorms are full...with waiting lists.  So I'm stuck.   ;D ;D ;D

Sound like the model Christian to you? I think he is doing a GRRREAT Job ;D

A4C - nice sarcasm, but it wasn't called for. "sarcasm"???

 ;D

Romans, it's great that you want to see him saved and I love that you're willing to be concerned for his eternal state.

But I'm thinking it isn't just the behavior that is making people question this guy's salvation-it's the doctrine. And it's true we don't know everything, but here is someone who says that he can do whatever he wants and then God will save him. This is not at all the spirit behind Revelation chapters 1-3, or those verses above. God saves us through faith, but there's a tremedous difference between faith and presumption.

The question is, can he be saved by this doctrine he's carrying? It's a valid thing to question. Because if he doesn't have the right doctrine, he may miss the boat unless someone points out to him that this kind of faith cannot save.

I share your concern for his salvation, and for AAAA's wellbeing in all of this, too. She's saying his behavior is causing her grief.  :-[

Well, the first thing here, in any conflict, is to desperately pray about it.  Believe me, I'm in one myself and yes, it takes even a "seasoned" Christian time or muscle to once again come around to praying about some things--we are so desparate to figure things out on our own.  

Anyway, maybe Whitehorse's above in Post #18, might come closest for me:

It seems the key is in the fact that he feels you're getting in the way of their relationship. If your roommate has confided in you about their relationship, that may give you some clues. It's quite possible that you are having a good influence on your roommate. Maybe she's sticking to her values and her boyfriend is nonplussed with that.

One idea is to talk to him without your roommate there to add to the balance one way or another. Maybe you could let her know you're planning on talking to him, and then go knock on his door before they have any chance to discuss it; ask him why he is angry.

If you speak gently and take a spirit of compassion and concern (as hard as I know that will be) he is more likely to confide in you. Try to see how he is looking at it even though he is completely in the wrong-because then he is more likely to be honest. It's a good idea to do this after you've forgiven him so you won't feel tempted to use it against him next time he offends you.

I hope that helps; I don't know the situation etiher, so I'm just guessing. What I'm wondering is, is your roommate a Christian? Because it seems she's dating someone who is not. Maybe your roommate is your one link to this guy. If so, the problem proabably exists there, whether for good or not. Especially if you don't know why he is angry with you.

But it seems she's jumping back and forth between the two of you, agreeing with him about his social obligations, and yet he says she's siding with you.

WH has hit on a number of points accurate to me here; just one, possibly, that he's jealous of you or, perhaps more to the point, AAAA, he's jealous of his girlfriend confiding in you about him(if that is the case).  Some guys may be laidback about that.  Others not so well.  Possibly, through no fault of your own, he may still see you even as a meddler.  If any of this is the case, hmmm, well, he needs to grow up and relax a little bit.  From your despription, he sounds uptight. or highstrung.  

WH seems to be giving some helpful advice there.

Primo, tho, prayer works many wonders.  I've prayed about a number of mine, and they've worked out very well.  Thank you Jesus.

heheheh, I think he likes you as odd as that sounds.

I understand what you are saying and I think we are all of the agreement that his doctrine is incorrect.  Romans 6 address people who are 'saved' who continue sinning because they think it is alright.  Paul corrects them in this doctrine, but does not say they are not saved.  He says why would you want to live that way?  Don't you know who you are?  But he never says "You are not saved."  This guy falls into the category of believers in Chapter 6.  Also, we don't know if he actually believes what he said to AAAA.  It could be that when she confronted him with the truth of how he should act, he defensively rebutted with this statement, but in his heart he really knows she is right and he really doesn't believe he can just do anything.  We don't know the battles that are going on in his heart.  All I'm saying is that we don't have enough information, and we definately don't have the right ... to judge this man's salvation.  If he was here, we'd lovingly and gently correct him.  In lue of that, we have tried to give AAAA some advice in how to handle it and through her, he may see how he should have acted.  I just get concerned when people judge other's salvation based on a few peices of information.  We all agree that their is only one thing that saves you "faith in Christ."  If he confesses that, then it's end of discussion regarding his salvation.  Now... we can discuss his behavior, and his beliefs regarding Christianity.  But if he has truly accepted Christ, then who are we to say he is not saved?  The last time I check, God didn't give me that power.  

I will gently and lovingly instruct.  I will give advice as God lays it on my heart.  I will tell my story of what happened to me and how God has changed my life.  And I will leave the judging up to God.  Too many times people accuse Christians of being judgemental.  The unfortunate truth is we have earned many of the labels put on us.  I wish us to change that and to get back to the root of Love that Christ taught us.  I wrote a post over in "You name it" in regards to how Christians should act.  I just get concerned when we do not exhibit the love Christ calls us to show.  

This may be a point where we just disagree.  But I just don't see the  how we can judge this man's salvation based on one doctrine that Paul addresses to saved people that hold this.  Paul says it is wrong, but not that they are not saved.  More than this one isolated incident with this man, on a larger issue, we should refrain from judging anyone's salvation.  If we are going to get to the point of looking at doctrine belief as the litmus test for Christianity, then we will get to the point of arguing how much water it takes in a baptism in order for one to be saved.  Let's not part fellowship over these types of doctrines.  Let's gently correct one another, pray for one another, and have "faith" that God is sanctifing all His saints in His time.  I thank God for the patience he took with me.  Can we have that same patience for fellow saints?

What's your roommate doing about all of this? Does she stand back and watch it? The fact that she "loves" a man who treats her roommate the way this guy apparently treats you sounds like she has a few screws loose....especially if this guy is doing it to get your attention. I know i would lose tremendous respect for my husband if he acted like this around ANYBODY, mych less someone i cared about. Does she justify it?

We can’t judge either way as to whether someone IS or IS NOT saved, only God knows the heart.
But it is possible to see if the evidence of salvation is there. I have failed the test more than once. If someone really knew me they could feel that I was not saved, sometimes I wonder myself. But then God chastises me and through the hurt I have comfort.
This is the test God gives us.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

We will not keep His commandments perfectly, we have a physical body that has strong sinful habits built in.
We can’t set up our own test and claim we are saved because we have done the necessary work, faith is a work. Salvation is by grace and not by works.

1 Thessalonians 1:3  Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

I do not agree with your statement: Not only is faith a work but believing and confessing is because of Gods work on us.

Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Proverbs 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We do not keep Gods commandments entirely by our effort. If we are saved then it is because God has changed our heart, we are born again. This heart change gives us the desire to keep Gods commandments.

Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20  That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Hebrews 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

We can’t change our hearts, just as we can’t contribute to our birth. Has this guy been changed? I don’t know. But if we go by what AAAA says we can see that this “christian”  does not show any desire to keep Gods commandments.
What is the second of the commandments?

Matthew 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38  This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 3:24  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Such an important commandment to break.

Left Coast,

We agree that we can't judge this man's salvation.  We agree that there will be fruits and evidence of salvation.  I disagree that we can judge his fruits based on this one un-Christian like behavior.  Would you say that most Christians have someone in their life that they cannot stand?  Someone that they have negative feelings for?  I know of MANY Christians who profess to having someone they can't stand.  And the ones that don't profess it, probably have those feelings and just don't admit it.  If we use this as the litmus test, then we could say that no one on the face of the planet is saved.  I'm just concerned that we find it so easy to judge someone else when we ourselves practice the same behavior.

In regards to keeping the Commandments ... this verse is often misunderstood.  The key is in the word "keep".  John is not saying that if we break one of the commandments, then we do not know God.  If you take this literally, I can see where you might draw this conclusion.  The only way I can explain this passage is to draw an analogy.  In the old days, sailors sailed the sea by the stars.  They picked a star and sailed to it.  The star guided their ship.  Often, they would stray off course and then they would re-line up with the star and keep going.  This is the context of "keeping" the commandments.  It's not that we fullfill and never break a commandment, but if we guide our lives by the commandments and if we stray, then we re-line back up to them.  This is what was meant by "keeping" the commandments.  The work "keep" was meant like the guiding star in our life.  I don't know if I explained this correctly, but this is the true context of this verse.

As far as faith being a work ... we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Your statements seem to imply you are a bit of a Calvinist.  I'm Ok with that if you are.  I happen to believe in free will.

As far as his incorrect belief that he can do whatever he wants.  I fully agree that this is an incorrect doctrine.  But this does not negate his salvation.  Again ... Paul addressed this in Chapter 6 of Romans and he never says that they are not saved.  He chastises them for holding this belief, but he never says they are not saved.  Unless we are willing to tear chapter 6 out of our Bibles, we should take this to heart.  What I say is one of 3 things.  Either 1) he has recieved some false teaching somewhere or 2) he really does not believe it and was just lashing out at AAAA in a defensive mode or 3) he does believe it and this is just one of the things God will convict him of during his sanctification process.

My main point to make is this ... who are we to say a man is not saved based on some negative behavior.  We all have people that we are not fond of.  Can any man really say that they love every person as themselves?  If you say yes, then let me give you an scenerio.  If you had cancer and the only way you could cure yourself was to sell your house in order to pay for it.  Would you do it?  Of course you would.  Now there are people all around us every day that in dire need of financial support.  If we love them as ourselves, wouldn't we sell everything that is not a necessity to us (at the very least).  For those that are pointing fingers that he is breaking the commandment of loving thy neighbor as thy self ... Be warned.  We are ALL guilty of this to an extent.  Who are we to say that he is worse than us?  I guess it's easier to point a finger in order to take the focus off ourselves.

My friends.  Let's show love and compassion and patience with our neighbors.  Let's not judge another's salvation.  If we see something we disagree with, then gently correct and leave the judging to God.  Here is a most dangerous thing to pray .... "Lord, will You please forgive me based on how I have forgiven everyone else around me."  Think about it.

Romans, I see what you're saying about loving instruction and I support that wholeheartedly. I think part of what makes encouragement an effective tool in Christian growth is in discernment, in seeing the heart of the person. What worked for you may not work for this guy. At any rate, he cannot be saved if he thinks he can presume upon grace, because the Bible actually does say that if we continue willingly in sin, there is now no more sacrifice for sin.

A lot of good verses were posted, and I think Ollie pointed out this one:
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,  Hebrews 10:26. 

Then there is the parable of the wedding garment. The man who did not have one was cast from the wedding.

 22:1And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

22:2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

22:3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

22:4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

22:5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

22:6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

22:7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

22:8Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

22:9Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

22:10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

22:11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

22:12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

22:13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

22:14For many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 22:1-11

The man in this parable was willing to come. But he did not have the righteousness.

And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. Revelation 19:8

So it isn't so much a matter of being judgmental or impatient, it's a matter of truth. If he doesn't know the truth, how can he ever be sanctified? I realize in your situation you're referring to sanctification, and that's true of every Christian. We all go through sanctification. But how can this guy be sanctified if he thinks he can be a Christian without it? That error, if he reamins in it, will cost him his soul.

I realize your situation is different. But with him, what seems loving and what is loving are two different things, I'm afraid.  :-\

But I agree with you that people should be encouraged into the kingdom, not barred from the kingdom by a misguided notion that the rest of us are without sin, because that isn't the case. You made some great points.

Whitehorse,

Nice post.  A point I was also trying to point out is that everyone of us has willfully sinned. We all have sinned and knew full well that we were sinning.  We cannot use that as a litmus test.  I don't mean to sound like I am fully disagreeing with everyone here.  I am in full agreement that these actions are wrong and that he is holding an incorrect doctrine.  But if he is seeking Christ (and we don't know), then I believe with every once of my being that God will show him the correct doctrines and convict his heart.  

The thing that concerned me was when I started hearing people say he was not saved.  I have heard way to many Christians in my day judge other people's salvation when they were guilty of doing things just as bad.  I just wanted to say that we should take out the planks in our eyes before we jump on the judging bandwagon and look at the splinter in our neighbor's eyes.

I agree completely that we can not know who is and who is not saved.
However we can determine whether the evidence points to one who is most likely saved or most likely not saved. We are only dealing with a hypothetical anyway, all we have is AAAA’s testimony.
On the other hand we can judge ourselves.
I am a divorced man. As long as my ex-wife lives I can’t remarry.
While I comforted an old friend whose husband walked out we found ourselves attracted to each other. I loved the companionship, and the intimacy, I hated the sin.
Our sin didn’t hurt anybody, it was against God only. It ate at me, and ate at me. Finally I had to break it off.
I found when in the relationship I couldn’t read Gods word, I didn’t pray, my relationship with God deteriorated. I couldn’t look at God without feeling shame.
I had to question my own salvation. I just don’t believe a child of God can continue in sin. It goes against our born again nature. The scripture seems to support that.

Romans 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans:
I used to believe in the freewill gospel, fortunately God didn’t allow me to shut my mind. I am a seeker of the truth. It was hard for me to see that salvation was entirely Gods work, Now I wonder how I could have ever believed in freewill.
Think about the paralyzed man in Mark. His friends lowered him through the roof so Jesus could heal his body. Instead Jesus forgave him his sins, He saved the man. No freewill choice. Boom! saved.

Mark 2:5  When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Do you consider yourself born again? I am sure you do, you seem to be. God chose that term very deliberately. What can we contribute to our birth. Can we decide not to be born?

 Sounds like  'saved' is correct in post 32.

In reading this thread i couldnt help but think of  young boys pulling pranks on girls  cuz they  'liked'  em.

 Why is youth waisted on the young :P sheesh

I have read through all of your posts - wow, such a huge response! - and it would take me forever to respond to all of them, so I'll try to reply in general.

Whitehorse, thanks for your concern.  I am also a little concerned for my roommate...she has tried to talk to him multiple times regarding this issue but he just cries and says that she's "taking my side".  This weekend he even gave her an ultimatium - either she sides with him, or sides with me.  He got QUITE angry because after our 8am classes, she eats breakfast with me (he's welcome to join our table, which has usually been the case) instead of leaving me to go sit a table alone with him.  He told her that I should've either left the table and gone somewhere else once he arrived, or she should've left the table to go sit with him.  And the worst part - I didn't even say anything to him!!!  I ate my breakfast in silence and didn't even look at him - I only talked with my roommate asked me a question.  

So yes, it concerns me that he feels so threatened by me that he gave his girlfriend an ultimatum.  To me, that's abuse.  Your boyfriend (or significant other) should NEVER dictate who your friends are, who you can talk to, etc. etc.  That is mental abuse.  I'm also a little confused...I know that I could never be in love with someone who treated me nicely but was so bitterly cruel to another person (who has done nothing).  A good quote - "A guy who is sweet to you but rude to the waitress is NOT a good guy."  It's so true.

Yes, my roommate is a Christian as well.  She seems to have a better grasp of the basic idea of Christianity but she still sat there and nodded her head when her boyfriend said that "You don't have to be nice just because you're a Christian.  ALL you have to do is believe in Jesus."

It still confuses me as to how someone like him could, on a technicality, get into heaven.  It also irritates me that he is getting FULL tuition on a special scholarship for all 4 years...and the scholarship is based on academics, leadership, and *CHARACTER*.  

As for those of you who advised me to go to his room when my roommate wasn't there and talk to him...no way.  I would be physically afraid to go in there by myself, especially if HIS roommate was there.  He's free to come and go into our room as he d*mn well pleases (my attempts to make him leave are useless - he totally ignores me), but it's well understood that should I ever set foot in his room, I'd be sorry.  I've been yelled at to get out before (despite my roommate's protests to let me stay because I wasn't doing anything!), and when I didn't leave immediately, I was dragged roughly off the couch by my ankles and shoved out, with the door slammed behind me.  Doesn't matter that my ROOMMATE was the one who invited me to come over - I didn't just invite myself in.  Not something I care to repeat.  

Bottom line - I don't want to get him angry.  I refuse to confront him out of the subject because if I did...I don't want to know what would happen.  I often lock the door to my room during the day so he won't just come in, looking for my roommate.  I don't like him being here when I'm alone.

For those of you who think that he "likes me" - think again.  Calling someone a slut, whore, b*tch, liar...harassing them constantly, calling them a "psycho", messing with their stuff while they're not there, talking badly about them behind their backs, saying that they "hate my presence", and spreading lies about a person...that's not "liking someone".  There's a difference between a guy joking around with a girl because he likes her, and a guy making a girl's life a living hell...to the point where she considers transferring college or applies for a room change.  

Thanks for all of your help. :)

~AAAA

I pray that God, I know that is not your thing, gives you wisdom.
It won't hurt to ask for His wisdom, even if you don't believe in Him.
By what you have said this guy has a serious power issue.
I hope your roomate and friend sees the light.

Yes, he does seem to have a power, or control, issue.

Maybe this, AAAA... It also irritates me that he is getting FULL tuition on a special scholarship for all 4 years...and the scholarship is based on academics, leadership, and *CHARACTER*....

...has become a problem for him, and he doesn't realize it.  It's gone to his head maybe...

I'm sorry it's like this for you.  Believe me, I KNOW the roomate problems; not very pleasant.  Mine were Phi Beta Kappas, tops in the class, aggressive, studious and contempuous of me "the Christian".  Two months b4 graduation, one of them, whose thin stature I noticed belied a rather distending abdomen, came to the apartment reported doctor diagnosed leukemia--his spleen twice its normal size.  A pre-med double major, straight A's all the way--med schools were asking him to come to their school.   *sigh*

Two months later we were all graduated, but we never saw each other again.  But I had had the chance to explain the Garden of Eden's "freedom" of choice, and the free gift of God.

As difficult as these moments are, best always to treat them thoughtfully, carefully, as best you can, and with prayer in Jesus' Name...

You just might be surprised at what some people will do when they like someone.  You see you may be a threat to his relationship BECAUSE he likes you.  The thing you've done wrong is nothing except that he probably likes you.  I doubt he can handle that.

I have seen so many different types of people and how they act.  I still think he likes you but doesn't want to because his world would be all messed up.  He may have control issues as well but still.  His defence against his feelings are to mock, make fun of you ,and be just plain rude.

I think you need to work on some thigns a well.  If someone pestering you is enough for you to change schools I'd hate to see what happens to you in the real world.  I have had PLENTY of people in the owrk place that drive you nuts.  Sometimes (most of the time) it's even your boss.  You can't just go running away everytime someone ticks you off.  It's something you will need to learn to deal with.  You mind as well do it now.

Your best deffense against him is to simply ignore him.  If he makes threats, or physically confronts you, you do have RA's and other such peoples at school to help you out.

I'm also curious as to why you would ever go to his room regardless of who invited you.  You know he can be quite a pain in the butt, and your roomate has no say in inviting you there either.

mmmm, to be young again.

Sorry.  Ol' boy grabs a girl for any reason and throws her out of a room and I'm poundin' him!  I like Mr. 5020's idea!  GET THE WHOLE DEFENSIVE LINE TO POUND HIM!!! Unless of course, he's on the football team...

I still think that the boy can be saved.  And AAAA, he's right.  If saved, he's still saved.  He's also terribly wrong to think that just because he gets into heaven someday, that there will be no punishment for his sinning against you.  He's saved, not by what he does, but by what Christ did.   :)

what goes around comes around,i beleive that.I feel we have the right,the obligation to protect ourselfs and those who can not protect themselves.I always tell my son the same thing,to protect others.Hes 12 and doesnt let others pick on him or anyone else.I dont mean in a bully fasion,you can imagine how 12 year olds can treat others.

wow, terribly sorry to hear about that.  first of all, i agree with you.  while the bible does say if you accept Jesus, you basically do get a one-way-ticket to heaven, theres more to it.  Heres a similar story (i only remember bits and peices) that was told to me on a missions trip:
my leader was at a cd store, chatting with his friends about new cds, when they got on the topic of christian albums.  as the convo got deeper, a lady who worked at the store walked in (from her lunch break).  As she set down her bags behind the counter, she happened to overhear her friends conversation.  She came over to join them, asking about who they were talking about, and my youth leader said "oh yeah, Steven Curtis Chapman, a christian singer.  Are you a christian?" She shrugged and replied, "oh yeah, I did that."  my youth leader was kind of taken aback by this.  "how can you do God?  I mean, you can DO your homework, or DO the dew, but you can't DO christianity.  It isn't like a home ec course"  As their conversation increaced, he discovered that she had not been living a christian life at all, and only used God when it had a benifit (example: buying crosses for easter, haning an angel on the Christmas tree, joining the bible study that all of your friends are in).  God isn't a credit card, you can't just burn out your card, then return the clothes the next day.  Let me put it this way.  If you're going to med school, and you say "I'm a med school student, I'm going to be a doctor." you arn't a doctor yet.  You can't stroll into the ER the next day and be like, OK Dr. Ross, who are we slicing open today???  When you make that bond with God (aka accept Jesus into your heart) you're making the same promise that you made for med school, you ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN YET, but you are considered a begining(amateur) one in the eyes of God.  When you accept Christ, you officially begin your journey down the path towards God.  It's not right to say, you can go to heaven if you jsut say this prayer.  If you die tomarrow, then its true.  But if you die in 30 years, and you have not picked up a bible since that one day you made that promise, then you are not a christian in the eyes of God.  On that one day you were, but not 30 years.  When we become a christian, we assume a responsibility that we will try to live a christian life, consulting God in ALL OF OUR DECISIONS and praying that we will make the right ones.  the parable of the sower would work here.  The soil that fell on the rocky terrain grew beautifully at first, but when the sun came up, the became withered and dried out.  While its not the same concept, this shows that if we do not continue to grow our roots deeper into the soil of the Lord, we will wither up before him.  Once again, I repeat, if you have accepted Christ into your heart, and DO NOT TRY TO LIVE A CHRISTIAN LIFE, DO NOT TREAT YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOU WANT TO BE TREATED, AND DO NOT TRY TO OBEY THE 10 COMANDMENTS THEN YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN.  Because we are humans, we will always fail at these goals, but then there is forgiveness, and the body and blood of Christ comes into business.  I am Baptist-Presbeteryan, but most of all just Christian.  I know the Bible gets into technicalities, but this is the truth.  Its not a catholic thing, where if you miss a Sunday School you go to Hell, but what the Bible says.  You have to respect God.  You both make a promise, one he'll never brake but one mankind will brake millions of times a day.  This is what I believe, and I hope you can persuade your roomate to consider it.  ps-sorry for the length!!!

There a few of things that bother me about the foorball team idea:

1. It would damage your testimony if you are a Christian.
2. It would inspire revenge.
3. Because it would inspire revenge, if you use the football team to protect you this time, you'll need them thereafter.
4. You never know who this guy is friends with.

Just an update...

A few days ago, my roommate's boyfriend and his friends were in my room (I had locked the door but my roommate let them in, against my wishes) and harassing me.  After dragging me around the room for a while by my ankles (not fun), I kept insisting that they leave.  One of them dragged me outside and smashed an ice cream cone in my face.  Yup.

I went to my RA, who called her RD, who called the campus police, who questioned me and filed a report, and then gave the three of them campus appearance tickets (court, kind of) for simple assault on a female, tresspassing, secondary tresspassing, disorderly conduct, harassment, sexual harassment, and burglary.  I spent the night in the RD's room and was moved to a new dorm the next morning.  My information is not going to be made available on the public registry, so they can't come and find me.  I had the option to have the one who assaulted me arrested by the city police (he would've spent the night in jail and had a criminal record) but I decided to be kind (my friends say I should've had him arrested).

And these three boys are Christians who go to church.  

These are dangerous people - and now I have to remember that whenever I step outside my dorm.

Just thought I'd let everyone know.

I am glad you have gotten out of that situation.
I also think he should have spent the night in jail.
Claiming to be a Christian is not being a Christian.

Matthew 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Matthew 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I am sorry if you haven't understood what a Christian is.
I can claim to be John Wayne, but I am not.
Don't believe everything you hear from people.

     AAAA;
   I am glad you have been tranfered to a new room.
      Please remember that not all claming to be Christians, or Church goers are true Christians.

I'm really sorry to hear that. That needs to be dealt with. At least now we have a better idea what kind of link your roommate had with the situation. Looks like she was talking to him you behind your back. I'm really sorry, and it seems like they need to do more than that. Can they suspend these boys?

Prediction: within a year they won't be seeing each other anymore.

me: ____, you HAVE to be nice to me.
him: No, I don't HAVE to be nice to you.
me: Yes you do.  It has to do with what you do every Sunday.
him: I go to church.  What does being Christian have to do with this?
me: You're a Christian - you supposed to be nice to people and be a good person.
him: Nope.  All I have to do is accept Jesus.  I can be as mean to you as I like.  I just have to account for it when I die.  
me: So when you account for it, do you get in trouble?
him: Nope.  I just account for it and go straight to heaven.  You, on the other hand, go to hell.
---------------

AAAA, this guy is a liar!  ;) "They will know we are Christians by our love". "You [we] have the aroma of Christ." "They went out of us - but they were not from us."

I can't say for sure that this guy is not saved, but if he is, he definately has some wrong ideas, and there's something ugly in his heart. A man asked Christ what the greatest commandment was, and this is the answer: Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength; and love your neighbor as yourself. We are told to be "servants", to "care for one another". Nowhere does God say (Old Testament, New, etc.) that we can be as nasty as we please, and still be counted as a saint. (Someone may have an argument for this, but...) Over and over, He tells us that He wants our hearts, our love, our kindness to others.

Whoever your roommates boyfriend is, I have a feeling he's deluded.  :'(

AAA,,,   I am glad that you got out of this situation...!
But, please remember, being in a Church every Sunday doesn't make them Christians like being in a garage doesn't make me a car!
      Many people call themselves Christians who haven't the foggiest idea what the word means.... as for accepting Christ... I feel that they have no idea whatsoever what that means.... Accepting Him as Lord of your life means you do your darndest to follow His example... being mean, harrassing people and accosting people is not among Christ's traits!
    It is true, you will know Christians by their love... and they bear good fruit... they have to answer to this Christ they say they accept!  and I fear that when they do see Him face to face they are in for the biggest shock in the world... they won't have to be told how wrong they were, but it will be too late for them to do anything about it.. Once you are gone from this earth, whatever your life was, whether accepting what Christ wanted you to follow or if you followed your own path all of your life , it is too late!  Judgement day is just that!  No second chances after death!!!
     Hope everything is all right with you now....
God bless,,,, Joy ;D ;D