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Top Ten Reasons I Don’t Tithe

1.The law of tithing has been cancelled (Heb 7:5,12,18) and no one has a right to re-establish a law Christ died to abolish.
2.I don’t have any food from the Promised Land to tithe (Lev 27).
3.I can’t find a Levite (Num 18:20).
4.I’m a priest (1Pe 2:9, Rev 1:6).  Priests were tithe receivers, not givers.
5.I’m a Gentile.  By law, only Jews can tithe.
6.The Bible teaches three different tithes (Num 18:20, Lev 27:30, Deut 12:1-19, Deut 14:22-26, Deut 14:28,29 and    26:12-13). How can I just pick one?
7.The New Covenant began when Christ proclaimed, “It is finished”. I can’t add anything to that.
8.I can’t find an example in the Bible of a worker tithing money off their wages and earnings.
9.I can’t find that it’s a requirement for church leadership in the New Testament.
10.The New Testament talks plenty about giving, but never mandates the law the tithing.(Remember, the NT began at the cross, not Matt 1:1).

what is tithe?

Hi David_james,

The word tithe means tenth. It was a commandment in the Old Testament to tithe according to the law, the giving of a tenth of the gain of that year.

Some still preach that a person is required to tithe to ones church. In the New Testament we know that giving is now according to how the Lord leads us and not necessarily just a tenth. It could be more than a tenth and giving is not just to ones church but rather to where the Lord needs it to go.

When in doubt, your church is a good place to start. I try not to pay to close of attention to the amount I give......and I try to double what I give monitarily in giving time to help those that really need help........even just fixing something or moving furnature.

Phoenix,

I can understand where you are coming from.  But are you trying to say that giving to your church or ministry, money or time is not a good thing to do?  Your post leaves some openings that a young person in Christ could interpret to mean that tithing or offering of time and or money is a bad thing to do. 

Paul teaches a good bit on how churches should assist him in his journeys to spread the word and support the ministries of Jesus.  Jesus himself never demanded a tithe or anything of that nature, however He was supported by His followers as far as finances and time.

1: is in referance to priesthood and how Christ is the high priestt now........not about tithing
2 is in referance to any tithe made to God and the value set upon it if the tithe is redeemed by man. the tithe from the land is given value by the priest (which you must understand is pre Christ) so if the man takes it back he must add 1/5th to it in money.
3 Christ is now the high priest (see note 1)
4&5 your statements are contodictory to the scripture. Even Levitical priests took part of what was given as tithe to God out of their portion (the choisest I might add) and burnt,boiled and soforthe the offering to God according to the law as it was set. there were those after a while that simply kept the tithe for themselves and they were punished for it.
6 try Mal 3:10 and if you put tithe into context the people of God at the time worked to plant feilds and built things. that was there income. Grain and livestock were currancy just as gold. Now we do business with cash.......you work for cash....you tithe cash.......the scriptures say to bring the first fruits as a tithe......the fruits of your labor......cash.
7Yes it is finished. But it is also not conbtrodictory to Gods law since Christ and Gad as well as the spirit ate all one and seperate. Gods word is still living and relevant. Even the parts you don't like....like tithing
8 see note 6
9the only thing that really changed from OT to NT is blood sacrifice for sin, which was not abolished, but rather already done for us by Christ. So you are not off the hook for Tithe yet.
10 Christ said "sell all you have and give to the poor, then follow me..............Christ preached giving.......all you can.......not meerly a tenth. a tenth is a good place to start, but it is only the minimum.

Store up your treasure in heaven


Gods blessings with you and I pray that you too will pray that the spirit open your eyes to the truth.

In my thinking, tithing is not just money. It's giving your firstfruits of everything. Giving money but also your time. Just giving of yourself. Christians should give w/a cheerful heart. Not because you have to but because you want to. The more you give the more blessings you recieve.
So True!!

That is right, its not just about money. The Lord askes for the first tenth of the fruits of our labor, whatever the fruit may be. This is just thge begining. just cause you give a tenth does not let you off the hook for expanding the kingdom of heaven. We all need to dedicat as much time as we can to Gods work.

Yes it's not only about giving money but also our time. One good thing that I enjoy is going to the nursing home and visiting the ones that have no visitors.  It really brightens up their day. Another good thing would be to volunteer at a soup kitchen. I have also done this. You really apreciate life more and all of your blessings.

hey,

          I try to tithe at least three sundays a month but I agree with the majority of people who are talking about time being a way to tithe also. My yg is in a community that has so much impurity in it that we just don't know what to do. so we're spending out time just working in the community. which I think is more important than any money you could possibly give any church.

     Kyle

I believe that tithing is an obedience thing that we do for God.  I have also heard that when Jesus died on the cross that he did away with the 10 commandments.  I don't know if that is true or not, but if God gave people guidlines to follow and He thought that it was a good thing then why wouldn't I want to follow it?  If I don't have a guidline to follow and I can do anything I want, then what will show my life different from anyone elses?  I know that this is heading off in another direction but I just thought that I would bring this up too.

The love of God that is in our hearts.

Joh 15:8  Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9  As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11  These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12  This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.


Tithing can be very important but most important of all is having the love that Jesus showed us. Showing that love to others, winning those that are lost over to that love. Tithing is a very small portion of that. We must let go of our worldly ways and follow Him in love not in duty. The laws of the Old Testament were of duty. All that were under those laws failed. That is the reason for God's grace, because all have sinned and no man could keep those laws. The love of God is more powerful than any of those laws. So let us love others as God has loved us. Let us bear fruit. To bear fruit we must first plant seeds. In plainer words ... we must tell others of Christs love for us and attempt to show them the way to Him.

Amen

I am new here, I found this site by accident and I don't know if it is still active....

There always seems to be a mix of O.T. and N.T. Scripture when trying to "prove?" something, why not use N.T. Scripture when it is available?.

When the word tithe is used the person is equating it to the law.

Paul said...
2Corinthians 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Paul also said...
Galatians 1:12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

Unless we say Paul is in error we then need to believe that 2Corinthians 9:7 is from Jesus Christ and if so them Jesus did away with "tithe".

So in N.T. context there is no tithe just giving from the heart.

Jesus was raising the stake when He asked from the heart which is more than reluctantly or under compulsion by the law.

Jesus wants your heart and having that; you give freely and all of yourself, you can’t try to buy anything with 10% (the law), Jesus does not need the money He wants your heart.

The heart is the starting point not a given monetary amount, no min's or max's.

Romans 2:23 You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

James 4:16 As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God —not by works, so that no one can boast.

TGIF
RBKay

Thank you for allowing me in.

Hello RBKay,

Welcome to Christians Unite. I sincerely hope that you enjoy it here. YES, the site is quite active with over 10,000 page views per day and average posts of over 135 per day.

You made some excellent points about the differences between law and grace. The important thing now is that we do all in love and appreciation for our LORD and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST. Everything we have is a blessing from GOD, so we really could say why not 20% or 30%. We could also talk about time, work, and devotion as opposed to simply talking about money. You are quite correct that the law is no longer in effect, but it is still the tutor and schoolmaster that brought us to the knowledge of sin and the acceptance of Christ. There are many other reasons why the Old Testament will never go out of style or become less important than the New Testament. The biggest and most important event of the Bible is obviously the Perfect Sacrifice of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS and all that this sacrifice means. The Old Testament explains why the CROSS is so precious and important. The Old Testament also teaches us about GOD.

Under Grace, I think that the most important truth is that anything we do for GOD begrudgingly is burned up as useless. The sole motivation for what we do for GOD must be in love and appreciation to our LORD and Saviour before it is recognized by GOD as being good. This would certainly involve much more than just money, rather everything we do and every aspect of our lives. Cheerful and from the heart is the key ingredient, and it can't be for recognition or other matters of pride. It isn't how much from the law, rather how much from the heart.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 2:6-7 NASB  Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

I agree, tithing involves much more than money.  In addition, God wants us to give of ourselves freely and not grudgingly.  There are some churches that require all of their members to tithe and go so far as to demand financial statements and W-2's as verification.  I once visited a church that collected offerings according to tithers and non-tithers in an attempt to embarrass those who weren't tithing. These tactics do not glorify God.

I have seen some of those churches also. When money becomes the center focal point in our private lives or in the churches then our spiritual wellbeing suffers and lacks in spiritual wealth.

When we give God first priority in our life He makes sure that we thrive and He provides for us to be a blessing to others and to our church. God knows our situations and when we give cheerfully without expecting anything in return, that itself is a seed sown.
Of course if we feel led to tithe we ought to do so.

Giving of ourselves for others is also a way of tithing, it may be considered ministering, but it does take time, love, effort and a cheerful heart.

Amen to that.

I know that God has blessed tremendously since my wife and buckled down and ensured that tithing came first.  I will admit at first it was a "chore" as in just feeling obligated to do so.  But God quickly showed us how much He appreciated that we did that.  Which just as quickly turned that "chore" into a labor of love and we quickly were joyous givers.  And God in turn opened the windows of Heaven and let the blessings fall down.  In one years time of that conversion we had a home.  this with a bankruptcy as well as a repo on our credit.  And our rates were as low as anyone elses.  God blessed us and we are more than joyously thankful for that.

Well, ok then, you don't tithe.....but I certainly hope you do give to the poor and any other ministries that you feel led to help.  We are so blessed in the USA and other Western countries.

In 3rd world countries especially, the people and even children live in unbelievably horrible conditions.  Some live on garbage dumps, some in Africa only get 1 meal per week, in India children as young as 4 years old work in the ore mines (hands and feet bleeding as they break the rocks with bare hands, inhaling the ore dust!!).....I could go on and on.  So you don't tithe......but I pray you will realize how blessed you are and help some of the truly poor and needy.

blackeyedpeas

“YES, the site is quite active with over 10,000 page views per day and average posts of over 135 per day.”

I used the wrong word when I said site, I probably should have used “thread”.
I have not had time to nose around through the site.

“Everything we have is a blessing from GOD, so we really could say why not 20% or 30%.”

If it was 10% under law why in the knowledge of what Christ did for us should it not be 10% or MORE.

In any case; everything should be done from the heart with love.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

The O.T. was given to the Israelites; Gods chosen people; but there is an extreme amount of the writings that we can learn from for our daily walk.

“There are many other reasons why the Old Testament will never (XXX) become less important than the New Testament”

I would not use the “out of style”

I don’t agree with that statement. The N.T. is the advent of Christ’s birth, life, death and resurrection.

In the light of that; God the Father provided a way for sinners such as I to be wash clean and have salvation and an eternal life with Him.

Without the N.T. we would still be taking sacrifices to the temple; if we were Jews. Gentiles - well lots of luck???

The O.T. the sheep died for God and the N.T. God died for the sheep.
A tremendous difference.

We can in no way compare the two as equals, yes they are both the inspired word of God. In the O.T. there is a wealth of knowledge but as Christians we need to LIVE the N.T.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

“anything we do for GOD begrudgingly is burned up as useless”

If we try that; we are not only lying to God we are also lying to ourselves and it is meaningless.

1Timothy 1:5-6 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.

“it can't be for recognition or other matters of pride”

Matthew 5:45 He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

What can we have pride over?

Obadiah 1:3 The pride of your heart has deceived you   (Yes O.T.)

Galatians 6:4-5 Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load.

James 4:16 As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God —not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 14:1  “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.

Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.



What I wrote in my first post was about tithes/offerings and only that. I did not try to get into theology.

I am sorry; we are getting off the tithe topic and there is probably another thread that this might suit better.

The heart is the starting point not a given monetary amount, no min's or max's.

TGIF
RBKay

Hello RBKay,

We might be all saying the same thing in different ways. The main point I was trying to make is we don't appreciate GOD and the New Testament without understanding the Old Testament. They are woven together in a beautiful manner, and the weaving provides proof that the Bible is Truth - GOD'S WORD.

In the Old Testament we have mandatory sacrifices and other requirements for man. In the New Testament we have the ultimate sacrifice by GOD for man - HIS ALL. SO, the matter becomes "what is our appropriate appreciation" instead of "what are our requirements". YES, it is a matter of the heart as opposed to a matter of law. A like example could involve a discussion on the Sabbath. Would a loving and dedicated Christian ignore GOD 6 days a week? Do we rest in the loving Arms of GOD 1 day a week or 7 days a week? Maybe this illustration will give you a better idea about what I was trying to say.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Proverbs 16:3 NASB  Commit your works to the LORD And your plans will be established.

Tom, your above statement says it all....

Tom...

I don't know what happened to the bottom part of my post because it is not readable, at least on my computer now.

The rest of it is...

We can in no way compare the two as equals, yes they are both the inspired word of God. In the O.T. there is a wealth of knowledge but as Christians we need to LIVE the N.T.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

“anything we do for GOD begrudgingly is burned up as useless”

If we try that; we are not only lying to God we are also lying to ourselves and it is meaningless.

1Timothy 1:5-6 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.

“it can't be for recognition or other matters of pride”

Matthew 5:45 He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

What can we have pride over?

Obadiah 1:3 The pride of your heart has deceived you   (Yes O.T.)

Galatians 6:4-5 Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load.

James 4:16 As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God —not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 14:1  “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.

Romans 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.



What I wrote in my first post was about tithes/offerings and only that. I did not try to get into theology.

I am sorry; we are getting off the tithe topic and there is probably another thread that this might suit better.

The heart is the starting point not a given monetary amount, no min's or max's.

TGIF
RBKay

Hello RBKay,

I don't see any problem at all, so it must be something wrong with your computer.

We are to be cheerful givers.  If you are a cheerful giver, it shouldn't matter whether or not tithing is a commandment, you should give to God willingly.  I am not even old enough to have a driver's liscense but I have a steady job and at least ten percent comes from my pay check EVERY week.  If you pray about it, I'm sure that God will let you know that you need to be giving money to the church and other ministries.

I'm new here too and quite frankly, I am disturbed with some of the threads here. Some seem to advocate that the law has been done away with or that the Old Testament is not important. Both are false. While a person who accepts Christ is under grace, we are still required to obey God's law. Also, much of the New Testament are quotations from the Old Testament.

A wise person once said that any religion that does not demand anything of its followers or puts those who have newly embraced it, into more or less what they were into before, is an ineffective religion. Sounds very much like James 2:20 which says, "Faith without works is dead".

Concerning tithing, it is very important for all Christians to tithe. The consequences of not tithing is that the church has little or no funds to do it's function. Ten percent of your income isn't a huge burden.

Hi Jemdude,

The law was not done away with. It was fulfilled by Jesus Christ on the cross.

Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Rom 13:10  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We are now under the law of grace, which is also referred to as the law of liberty, law of faith, and the law of Christ in the New Testament.

There was much done with Jesus on the cross. I suggest a good study of the book of Galatians where Paul was chastising those that wanted to subject the church to the laws of the Old Testament.

This does not mean that we can throw out the Old Testament. There is much to learn from the Old Testament. From it we can learn that man cannot obtain righteousness on his own, that without God we are nothing. It is our school master that brings us to the loving, saving grace of God through Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


 

AMEN!!!!


As for tithing, I see it this way.   Everything I have belongs to God anyways.   If I put down my own life to serve Christ, he has everything I own including my wages.   I do tithe, and sometimes give more, but its all His IMHO, and I give where I can.

Blessings!

And works will not get you into heaven either. just like faith alone will not.
you have to have three things.
Faith, Grace and Salvation.  Faith being the hearing and learning through the Gospel, and taking that and going through Gods infinate mercy Aka Grace, and recieving redemption aka Salvation by grace or Gods mercy.
Works are a by product of the process.

Sure about that??   I am disabled.  live on SSRD.  my bills exceed my income some months and i have to choose between food or medicine on some of those months.
10% would eliminate my medicine and my food.

The tithe belongs to the Lord. God commands us to tithe. Do we dare to rob God? There will be no thiefs entering into the kingdom of heaven.Thats the number one reason why you should tithe. :o

Hello SpokenWord,

I see that you are new, so WELCOME!


We have numerous discussions on the forum that you should find interesting. There was a thief being crucified on a Cross next to JESUS, and we know where that thief went. In fact, all of us are sinners. JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS are the ONLY reason why any of us are forgiven, and Faith in HIM is the only way. NO amount of good works or giving will get someone into Heaven.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Galatians 3:2-3 NASB  This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Romans 5:17-18 NASB  For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.  So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Romans 10:3-4 NASB  For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

1 Corinthians 2:2-5 NASB  For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

One thing I really believe in IS tithing.  It is the only place (in Malachi) where God says to prove Him...the rest of the time He is proving us.  I personally have experienced MANY blessings from tithing.  Try it.  "Taste and see that the LORD is good."  And, Jesus said (regarding tithing and mercy and the love of God) "These things you ought to have done (tithing) and not have left the others (mercy and the love of God) undone."

The word tithe in Hebrew, ma‛ăśêr  ma‛ăśar  ma‛aśrâh, simply means a tenth. In Mat 23:23 the Greek word was apodekatoō, meaning to pay as a debtor or to take as a creditor. We don't see the use of this word at any time after Jesus gave is all for us on the cross. Why did Jesus teach this in Matthew? It was because the written law (the Mosaic law) still pertained.

Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

If we search in the time after the cross we no longer see the word tithe pertaining to Christians. There is no commandment telling us to tithe nor specifying a certain amount. Instead we do see the word "give".

2Co 9:7  Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

We do see examples of giving to support the Apostles but we also see where the Apostles worked to earn their keep so that they would not be a burden to the people:

1 Cor 16:1-2

There are other examples of also giving to the needy.

Does this mean that we sin if we give a tithe (tenth) of our income? Only so if God has laid it on our heart to give a different amount (more or less) or if we do so with the intent that it is an obligation (grudgingly).

 

To me, tithing is the 10% that belongs to the Lord.  Giving is over the 10%.  I give as well and my experience has been that the more I give, the more I receive.

Hello Tom

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. What would you say about a cheerful giver giving 1/2 of 1% without grudging?

Pilgrim

Jesus did not debate the tithe...he gave the tithe...

He also did away with it.

Pilgrim

Why don't we all just do as we have purposed in our hearts?  :)

I am not a debator...I love to give to the Lord for it furthers the ministry of the gospel...Every pastor..missionary...one in need is encouraged by our giving to the Lord that they can be bless those to go on and to have the support of the body for the support of the gospel...That is why I tithe and would gladly tithe more...I do not think I could come up with 10 reasons not to tithe but can give every reason to reach this world that is dying with life and life is in the gospel...It is where my heart is...and my treasure is...for nothing in this world will last...and we will turn to dust...but our souls will live forever and we shall see God...

AMEN sister, AMEN

On another note, I got in the tithing sunday, fresh strawberries.  Durning the year, I normally get quite a bit of fresh fruit, and veggies.

Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's; it is holy to the Lord.

The New Testament says nothing to change God's instruction on tithing. The tithing is holy and still belongs to God.

If we do not worship God with our money, first fruits, we do not really worship God. Job, Abraham and his descendants, and others living before the giving of the Law, knew that worshiping God involved sacrificing of their substance.

1 Corinthians 9:14 [On the same principle] the Lord directed that those who publish the good news (the Gospel) should live (get their maintenance) by the Gospel.

Tithing is God's method of supporting His ministry.  First Corinthians 9:14 says those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel "even so" as the priests of the Old Testament lived from their temple service. God gave the tithe to them (Numbers 18:21). To be "even so" today requires tithing to continue.

Tithing is a continual reminder God is your source.  Tithing acknowledges in a tangible way the Lord's ownership of us and all we have. It is recognition He deserves.

Anyone who receives Christ Jesus must receive Him as He is: Lord. By definition a Christian is one who has received Jesus Christ. Since He is Lord, when we receive Him He becomes Lord of our life. As Lord of our life, Jesus has complete say about what we do with all our money.

Here is a question for y'all.............. Which do you trust more, Jesus or money??

Let us not confuse tithing with giving. The word tithing means tenth. It was a part of the Mosaic law. In the New Testament we only see the word tithe used just a few times. Primarily in regards to chastising of the Pharisees. What we do see are many different ways of giving. There was giving to the Apostles, giving to the church (body of Christ) and giving to the poor.

We are no longer under the law but under grace and as God showed His wondrous grace by giving His all we should be inclined through the love in our hearts to give all we possibly can to His wonderful work. If God lays it on our heart to give in a manner that is in excess of 10% then we should do so. As Christians all that we have should be considered God's, that He has been so gracious to supply us with. If we are poor and cannot give much in the way of cash then we can give much in the way of our time or of other things according to the gifts that He has given us.

Very well said, Pastor Roger.

dear everybody
let me put in my 2 cents' worth
i think it optional whether to tithe or not
one argument for tithing is that Abraham tithed before Mosaic law came into the picture.  On the other hand Christ scolded those who tithe and ignore weightier matters such as mercy and justice.  important thing is according to Christ to give joyfully

As for me..I love to give..to tithe that the gospel will go on..Missionaries..pastors who preach the word...those in the body who have lost a loved one and in need of finacial support can come to the body and be encouraged and needs met..To do it unto the Lord as my riches no matter how little I have are not stored up on this earth but in heaven..I know where the tithe goes and have seen it bless so many but it blesses me more that I can reach out with all that I have for all I am and all I have belong to the Lord..

I think there are many agruments presented such as this for an excuse to not be in church or to justify why one does not want to be a christian..and it is best to give no argument of any kind that would bring the lost to where they cannot see the love of god and one accord of His people for we are called to the gospel to live it and it is hard to live it when we present argument when we so need to present the gospel..and to promote it with our time..money and talents but more important..OUR LIVES A LIVING SACRIFICE..

The Lord say's,
Don't let one hand know what the other hand is doing when you give,(a secret even to you)
so that what you have given in secret, May be rewarded openly to you by your Father which is in Heaven...

Was their still 11 tribes that gave a tenth to the Levite Preist, While under Roman Rule ?

Is their a differance between Tithing and Alms?

The Lord alway's said to go and give unto  the poor & the widowed, fatherless...
I believe we should give it to worthy shepards, that will use it for that purpose.
NOT for stained glass windows & statues, ect. ect. ect.
Love Duane
P.S
Remember, when you have given unto one of those that love him,
you given unto him, Unfortuntly many will hear on that day "I Never Knew You",
Matt 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then WILL I PROFESS unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

MATT 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an HUNGRED, and ye gave me meat: I was THIRSTY, and ye gave me drink: I was a STRANGER, and ye took me in:

36 NAKED, and ye clothed me: I was SICK, and ye visited me: I was in PRISON, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, WHEN saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 WHEN saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or WHEN saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these MY BRETHERN, ye have done it unto ME.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I WAS an hungred, and ye gave me NO meat: I WAS thirsty, and ye gave me NO drink:

43 I WAS a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it NOT to one of the least of these, ye did it not to ME.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Theirs to many church's in america for their to be so many poor people here,
someone will be held accountable, God required accountability of ones own actions!
Love Duane

Amen Brother Duane!

We do have some filthy RICH preachers these days who serve as examples of "love of money". They also confuse many of their donors who are struggling just to get necessities of life. If I was one of those rich preachers taking money from the poor, I wouldn't be able to live with the guilt. BUT, the ones I'm talking about don't have any guilt and just keep taking more and more money.

We can and should be picky about how our offerings are used. The Scriptures you posted also indicate many ways that we can serve GOD. If we pray about things, GOD will help us find the best places for our offerings of money, time, and effort. Bluntly, it won't be for preachers living in multi-million dollar mansions and staying in $10,000 a night hotel rooms. GOD can give us guidance about what is and what is NOT being a good steward of offerings intended for GOD'S Work.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 3:11-13 NASB
This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him. Therefore I ask you not to lose heart at my tribulations on your behalf, for they are your glory.

dear everybody  just one more thought.  There is an argument by those who advocate tithing and that is that Abraham tithed at a time way before Mosaic law came into place.  so tithing is a concept existing before mosaic law and therefore though we are not to obey Mosaic law we still have to stick to tithing as an obedience of God's Word.

A person who has faith in Jesus Christ does not worry about whether tithing is commanded in the New Testament. A person who is transformed by Christ to be more like Christ is generous. Such a person wants to give as much as possible to support the gospel and to support needy members. Christians should give generously but, giving is a result of their relationship with God, not a way to earn it.

Some people act as if Christ liberates us from the law so that we can keep more for ourselves. That is false, he liberates us from the penalty of the law so that we can be free to serve him more, as loving children and not merely as slaves. He frees us so we can have faith instead of selfishness.

When it comes to money, the real question is, Is your heart in the gospel of Jesus Christ? Are you putting your money where your heart is? You can tell where your heart is by seeing where you are putting your money. Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Amen to that Brother Tom.  I'd never send money to a preacher on TV.  There is always my own church and my favorite homeless shelter.
Speaking of TV preachers, I heard...gosh what's his name now, Jerry Lee Lewis's cousin.... anyway he's always turning on the tears but at the same time cheating on his wife....anyway he said in his program years ago that God told him that if everyone would send money to his ministry, God would pass over America during Armageddon!
Gosh, I just can't think of his name right now.  But he made me sick!

That would be Jimmy Swaggart.

Yes!  His name just would not come to me this morning.  I haven't seen or heard of him in a long while though.  I hope he is off the air.

My sentiments Exactly Brother..

Nope, he is still on the air.

Not for long...
God promises theirs a day coming were he's not going to just keep looking away,
and bring swift destruction upon them! AMEN!

What about that guy in the late 1800's that would sell his white robes every year saying that the Lord
is returning and when the Lord did'nt show up that year, he would do the samething the next year
and people kept coming every year....OUGH BOY!!!
I take alot of comfort in knowing that God is going to deal with all this!

Hello Ludwig,

How do you feel about this, and what percentage of your income do you give to the LORD'S WORK?

Oh, I love Jimmy Swaggart and his son Donnie.

Dynamite preaching!!!! :)

If you preach 10% tithing, you might get 2%, but if you really preach the cross, and all that it entials, uo ought to get 100% of the person (the pocketbook comes with them) to the Lord. 

(2 Cor 8:5)  "And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God."

Like that of the 7th day Sabbath (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=17759.15), the absence of any reiteration of the command to tithe, except for the example of the free will offering of Abraham, is notable, especially where the Holy Spirit explicitly deals with giving in 2Cor. 8, 9), and in there we see it is to be sacrificial,  and according to what a man has, not according to what he hath not. This is more just, as Bill Gates giving 10% is not the same in God's sight as a poor man with 7 kids. And a poor soul who gives just 10% sacrificially by faith, will have more of a reward than a man who gives more, but not sacrificially in faith.

And the Bible does promote tithing - that of 10% being the minimum - in that "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Mat 5:20).  And i think Jews were to give upwards to 35% (both in money and goods) according to a study i heard by John MacArthur.

Hezekiah "rendered not again according to the benefit done unto him (2Chrn. 32:25) after getting just a 15 year extension on his physical life, and how much more shall we be deemed to be unresponsive to receiving the gift of eternal life, if our focus is on making a 10% minimum, rather than seeking to live on 10% for our temporal needs and comforts, so that we can use the rest for the more formal work of the Lord. 

Such requires surrender and consecration to the Lord on our part, to make everything a means to the end of realizing Christ's righteousness and kingdom, and thus we will seek to be good stewards of the manifold grace of God (1Pt. 4:10) in temporal things, as well as seeking His likeness and the advancement of His work.

This applies to churches and ministries who seek to meet their needs by frequently preaching on money, which they seldom give a physical account of, as if the "laity" were employees, rather really preaching the cross, and full surrender to Christ, and seeking to live  by the faith we preach, trusting God, that if He called us into ministry, then He will provide for us without they having to plead, or lean on people.  And by treating the laity as worthy to know where their(God's)  money goes, and not fostering an employer/employee type mentality, but rather being both the army and family that the early church was (and if we are not one then we are neither).  And in this i certainly come short.     

Brothers and Sisters,

I usually speak vaguely when this topic comes up because it's a matter of contention. However, I many times feel guilty when I don't speak the whole truth. This is one of those times. Please take this or leave it, and know that I won't debate it. Say whatever you wish to counter what I say and I won't answer. You will have the last word. Finally, I don't post this for hate or division.

1 - We're not under the Law, and we're not Israel if we are Christians. We live under the GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD.

2 - "GIVE" is the key word here, not "TAKE". "TAKING" is like taxes and that's what "Tithing" was. We should "GIVE" freely in joy and gladness, but "GIVE" is what it is because there is no command to Tithe by GOD in this Age of Grace.

3 - Our GIFTS to GOD'S WORK are the same as our good works. They won't be recognized by GOD if they are done as a duty, begrudgingly, for recognition, for rewards, for bragging, or for any other reason than love and gratitude to GOD.

4 - Matthew 22:36-40  NASB  "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."   -   This was spoken by JESUS CHRIST before the CROSS. It's important to note that CHRIST was born under the Law, lived under the Law, and died on the CROSS to fulfill the LAW that no man was ever able to fulfill. HE fulfilled it perfectly and "GAVE" HIS life freely. It had to be freely because no man was able to take it from HIM. JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS was and is the greatest GIFT GOD has ever given to mankind. It is a GIFT, and GOD doesn't force any man to take it.

5 - Colossians 2:13-17 NASB  When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.   -   This was written after the CROSS and pertains to the Age of GRACE - not LAW.

6 - Our "GIVING" is not just to the local church we attend. It would include the poor, missions, charity, the sick, etc. "Mat 6:2-4  "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. "But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

7 - Our giving and gifts are just that in the Age of Grace. There is a tremendous contrast between Grace Giving and Law Taking. If we want to see this contrast most accurately, we will go to the writing of the Apostle Paul. Why do I say this? The others were Apostles to the Jews and they lived under the confusion of the LAW. The Apostles to the Jews didn't know about the mysteries of CHRIST'S CHURCH until the Apostle Paul taught them.

7a - Philippians 4:15-18 NASB  You yourselves also know, Philippians, that at the first preaching of the gospel, after I left Macedonia, no church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving but you alone; for even in Thessalonica you sent a gift more than once for my needs. Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit which increases to your account. But I have received everything in full and have an abundance; I am amply supplied, having received from Epaphroditus what you have sent, a fragrant aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well-pleasing to God.   -   It's rare for the Apostle Paul to mention anything about giving to him. Instead, the Apostle Paul spends nearly all his time in talking about giving thanks to GOD and the GIFTS from GOD.
 
Brothers and sisters, there is no tithe and no command to give any percentage of our income to GOD'S Work. There is "GIVING", and we are most certainly to do that as part of our love of GOD and others. However, it is "FREE WILL GIVING" because we want to give, not because we're told to, must, or commanded to do so. GIVING is part of our love and joy. Our joy will be more full when we give as GOD has enabled us, remembering that it will only be acceptable to GOD if it is given in love and gratitude to HIM with joy and gladness.

The most important thing for us to know about GIVING in this Age of Grace is love, joy, and gratitude to GOD. Otherwise, it isn't GIVING and GOD isn't pleased with it. There is NO TITHE, NO TAX, and NO COMMANDED PERCENTAGE to give. What we GIVE is a matter of love and joy between us and GOD. This is part of our personal relationship with GOD. It's no man's business what we make and what percentage we give to GOD'S WORK. That's GOD'S Business and a highly personal part of our relationship with HIM. Above all, our giving should never be a matter of bragging or to receive personal recognition. It isn't LOVE GIFTS if we have other motives for giving.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Top 10 Reasons Why Tithing is Not Required

1. The Holy Spirit is our new teacher, not the Mosaic law (Romans 12:8; Galatians 5:18-25)

2. There is no command for the New Covenant Church to tithe (Genesis - Revelation)

3. Tithing was used for the temple storehouse & ceremonial system (Nehemiah 10:37; Deuteronomy 12:17,18)

4. 10% giving is not an eternal principle nor a character trait of God (Romans 8:32)

5. The church is not commanded to follow the ordinances of Abraham and Moses (John 7:21-24)

6. A tithe only consisted of agricultural increase (Leviticus 27:30)

7. Tithing is not the minimum amount mentioned in scripture (Romans 12:1; Matthew 25:24-28)

8. An OT ceremony paralleled the future Church with a freewill offering (Deuteronomy 16:10)

9. We have new commands of giving (1 Corinthians 16:2; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Galatians 5:18-25)

10. I will leave out #10 and see what many of you come up with

Steward,

Let me start by welcoming you to the forums. 

And you are correct in what you said that tithing is not required.

However the feel of your post is that you believe that we as Christians should not be giving our time and money to the church, and that the principle of tithing, or giving is wrong. 

Now let me first clear up a couple of things which you have stated that you are incorrect on.  Tithing is not, was not something that came about with the Law that was given to Moses.  Tithing was something that happened even before that.
Gen 14:20,21 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
In vs 20 we see Abram giving a tenth of all to Melchizedek who was the priest of the most high God.  This was before any of the other kings were to claim their lot, or even before Abram could lay claim to any of the spoils of war.
This is reinforced and the story retold in Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

As another example of tithing before the Law.  Look at Jacob in Gen 28:22
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Paul lets us know a great deal about it throughout...but let us start in 1 Corinthians 16:2
"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."
Paul lets us know that there were collections made on a regular basis.  And gives us a hint of giving each week and storing that up for the missionary when he came buy, that way there would not be a burden to collect offerings on the day he came buy.  If we want to be able to give $1000 dollars to a missionary in a year it is alot easier to give it to him $10 at a time than to come up with $1000 all at once on the day he comes.  So Paul gives us good financial advice in that we should try to tackle it a little a time, and as God has blessed us.

We could go on and on and on about how the Bible teaches us to give...especially in the NT. 

The short of this Steward is that you are correct in that we are not commanded to tithe.  However there was a tithe before it was a commandment to do so, and there is that tithe even now, Abram did not give a tenth because he had too, he did it because he loved the Lord.  And Jesus told us to not give a tenth simply because we had too, but because we want to and because we love the Lord.  We have to realize that ALL that we have is not ours, it is His.  And He can allow it to be taken from us at any time.  The Lord loves a joyous giver.



let us take a look also at Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Here we see that Jesus rebukes the Pharisees for simply giving of their tithe of material goods, and forget the love part of it.  Jesus himself states "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other (the tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs) undone."  So we see that even Jesus states that tithing is something that should be done.

I feel whole heartedly that sacrificial, spirit-led giving is important and very much right. I don't believe that the minimum should be dictated by the actions of Abraham, Jacob, Moses or Israel. God left us His Spirit to guide, train, and direct us in how much, when, and where we should give. There are principles that establish a base for us, like take care of the poor and needy, provide for your ministers, support foreign and local missions, and give to your local body.

Let's face it. Abraham was a very rich man. But he gave only 10% to the priest. Let's not forget that he gave the majority of it back to the pagan king. Abraham's example is not to be carved out as universal principle. I'm sure a majority of us believe that we are 100% stewards.

First fruit offerings were given by cain and able before there was officially a command. Clean and unclean animals were separated by Noah before there was ever a command. I know you said "Jesus told us to give a tenth because we love the Lord", but in Matthew 23/Luke 11 Jesus wasn't talking to the Church, nor was he talking to anyone under the new covenant. By no means am I throwing out everything Jesus said under the Old Covenant, but in context he was praising the Pharisees for following the law, and criticizing for not following Spiritual principles.

What i see here is #1 Jesus confirming that the pharisees were correct to tithe. #2 i see that Jesus confirms that agricultural products are still the only acceptable gift of the tithe. Only the fruit of the land and animals were allowed to be given under the tithing law. So if we want to use Luke 11/Matthew 23 as support for a 10% minimum then you also have to concede that Jesus was confirming that money and goods were still not acceptable gifts.

Amen, Brother Jerry. Giving when done appropriately is not about making a few rich, lining just their pockets. It is not about having a church with gold and crystal decorations. Giving is about love. Love for God, love for all of mankind. The desire that all will come to know the hope that is in us. To know the loving, saving grace of God. Whether it is just a meager two mites, an exact tenth, or what greater amount it might be we are to "do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him" through the love that we have within us.

All to often we get embroiled in certain things, getting stuck on one subject, forgetting what our main objective should be  ... The winning of souls for Christ.

AMEN!

GOD'S Love for us and our Love for GOD determines many things in our hearts, and it must be all about Love.


1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

The subject o tithe is so simple..When a life is surrendered to the Lord..all belongs to Him..The early church sold all their possessions and gave accordingly to those in need..They rallied around eachother..They gave joyously..We have come so far from the early church..Social standing is more important...It reminds me of the rich ruler who could not part with His wealth..not even a 10th of it..

I examine what you have said and I can say that I disagree.  I will agree that there is no mandated 11th Commandment that says "Thou Shalt give 10%" however throughout the Bible, both new and old a standard is set.  Yes a guideline more than anything, but what it comes down to is that if you can afford to give 10% and don't, then you are not giving what you can.  And there is plenty of evidence to show that giving was quite often directed towards the church and the church to delegate it out.  Look at the formation of Deacons and how they were to help with the chores around the church and serving the congregation.  This obviously would cost the church some money, so how would it have received money if not for the giving of the congregation?  Paul writes to many of the churches, not individuals, and thanks them for their support while he is on the road.  No there is evidence a plenty that tithes went to the church.


Now wait a minute here.  You have that completely wrong.  Abram did not give the rest to the king, he did not take it from the king.
vs 21 "And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself." - Here we see the king of Sodom stepping up as if the spoils of war were his to distribute as he saw fit.
vs 22-23 "And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifte up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heave and earth, THat I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take anything that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:" - Here we see Abram letting the king lay claim to it.  But also stating he wants nothing to do with it.  He lets the king know that he did what he did because it brougth glory to God, not to him. 

Those that do are one of two things, liars or boasters.  I believe that many of use hear would like to think that we give 100% effort to being good stewards, but realize we are a wretched bunch and still sin, and still fall short. 

I would concede nothing of the sort.  There is a multitude of examples upon which we are shown that God has all and asks for little.  We are to give of our first fruits, if that is crops, or land, or money earned from selling crops, land, livestock, or anything else.  You would make it sound as though merchants who bought and sold goods was exempt from tithing, and that simply is not true.  Even 2000 years ago there were people who bought and sold goods and made their money from that.  Their first fruits would simply be the money they made and of that they were to give to the Lord. 

I am sorry to say but I truly believe that you are misled in the beliefs that you have when it comes to tithing.  The Bible clearly shows as Maryjane even mentioned that if we have turned our lives over to God then we should truly understand that all we have is His.  And if He asks for all of it then we should be joyous in giving it all to him.  It is a true blessing that God let's us keep 90% of it as a standard, but remember it is simply a standard and He could ask for more or less at any time. 

Often we find that God will set us benchmarks to follow.  We see that throughout the Old Testament.  That is what the Law was for to begin with.  "Here is the standard upon which I, your Lord God, want you to live by."  God knew we could not live by that standard, but wanted to see how faithful we would be to that standard.  God put out there 10% as a standard and it is one of the few that quite honestly most people can achieve.  And if our faith is in keeping that standard or doing the best we can to get there, then God will as promised reward our faith. 

This is what i go by when i give,
Let not your right hand know what your left hand is doing when giving unto our Father...
A true man/woman of God gives all he can, weather it be 10% or some other number,
God knows who the Cheerful givers are.(the old woman that gave all she had)
Not once did the Lord tell people to go and sell all that they have & give a tenth(tithe) to the Jewish Synagoge
& their was no Christian Churchs at that point in time to give to.
Neither did he tell them to go & Build Beautiful Churchs filled with Gold & statues & Stained glass windows,
My Brother(Jesus)says when i Feed, Clothe & give unto the poor, I have done it unto Him, So my money goes to them/Him...
I refuse to pay for stained glass windows, ect. ect. ect. And be made merchandise of so preachers can become Fat & broaden the hims of their Garments...
I do give to Churchs that I KNOW ARE DOING GODS WILL!
YLBD
Do you remember when all the christians sold all that they had and gave it to Paul to divide equally amongst them so that none did lack anything
Just as the Jews did when they gathered Manna in the wilderness, No matter how much you gathered everyone was given the same amount,
But a couple, a man & a woman sought to hold some of their money from the rest and God snuffed them out in front of everyone, 1st. the Husband
then his lying wife, God Knows the Cheerful Givers...

Phoenix,tithing is part of the law that was giving in the old testament,and Jesus himself alluded to that in the new testament.
So read Matthew 23:23. Hope that helps.

         Now let's analyze the truth of the matter. We all know that the Word Of God. And we believe the word of God by faith. And the Word of God tells us to walk by faith and not by sight. ( Am I correct so far?) So an the matter of tithing, it was not just for those in the O.T. but in the new as well. I read that someone said that they don't tithe because thet're not a Jew and only the Jewish people were the one's who had to tithe. So let me feed you the Word. And we'll see what God has to say about it.        Ephesians 2:

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

So now you see, we gentiles are one in the same with the Jews. Are you one who steals from God? lets see.

Malachi 3:8 “ Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me!But you say,‘ In what way have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings.

  Is the picture getting a little clearer for you that all are called to give an offering. And If you don't think it was important to Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour, lets just see what the WORD OF GOD has to say about it.

             Mark 12:41-44
41 Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. 42 Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites,[a] which make a quadrans. 43 So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; 44 for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”

    And the church says, AMEN.  Don't look at others and how they give. But when you give, give unto the Lord. And do it with your whole heart.   AMEN AMEN and AMEN


 

Hello armorbearer,

Welcome to Christians Unite forums.

I see a strong twist of scriptures with your logic that places men back under the law instead of our being under grace. If we look at some of the scripture that you have given we can clearly see the point being made that God did in fact abolish the old form of tithing:

"having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances"

This is clearly telling us that those ordinances do not pertain to us. As has already been said in this thread many times tithing, which is a tenth, is not a requirement and is supported by the many verses given. Giving to the Lord's work is something that God wants us to do and may very well in some cases be much more than just the tenth spoken of in the OT. It is to be from the heart, not from any duty.

Armorbearer

Welcome to the CU forums.  I do hope that you enjoy your time here and are able to partake of the fellowship and wisdom for time to come.

I understand where you are heading but I also caught the possible slant like PR mentioned above.  However I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to clarify your stance on that up just a bit.

I do pray that it is just a simple misunderstanding or lack of communications.

     Hello pastor Roger and Bother Jerry and all who read this. Thank God that I have a chance to fellowship with those who are baptised into the body of Christ.

     Now let see. In studying the Bible, and dealing with certain topics, you must analyze all the facts so that you don't see what you wanna see, and get out of the word what you wanna get. we need to look carefully so that we see the truth and do as James said which is to be a doer and not just a hearer. In Eph 2: 11-16,I was trying to make a point as to the person who said that tithing was just for the Jews. And because of Christ, we are now one in the same.  Before Christ, salvation had not yet been made available to the gentiles or non Jews. Hence the scripture that I gave brought out a few questions to you so I must clear them up.

    We must realize that there are more than 4,113 laws and ordinances in the O.T. that the nation of Israel had to follow. And we know that the Law was not meant to justify anyone. And we know that the main purpose of the law was to give us a knowledge of sin. Sin, deeds done in the flesh.  ( Romans 3:20). Now lets see what Paul said:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

   The Law gave us a knowledge of sin that sin might appear exceedingly sinful. What then did Chrst abolish in His flesh. Do we have to go to chuch and bring an ox or bull or lamb to be burned on an altar as a sacrifce for our sins? Do we have to bring two turtle doves to the high priest after our first son is born 8 days after his birth as a sacrifice to God and have our children circumsized. No it is by faith that we obey God because the law was established upon works. Not to get off the subject of tithing for I know that Christ is the end of the law ( Romans 10:4)

   So let me ask you this, if tithing was not important then why was He at the temple watching how people gave?
Mark 12:41-44.  And why does Malachi tell those that they rob God because of there tithes and offerings?

  And what if everyone in the body of Christ, were to consider your opinion that we don't need to tithe to the church? What do you think would happen to all of the thousand upon thousands of churches that have outreach ministries and food pantries to help those in need? The church doors would be shut. Why? Because just as you have gas & electric, water bills and money you spend on the up keep of you house, so does the house of God. Tithing is something we do by faith. If you're keeping your fist closed tight so that you don't give, then God can't put nothing in your hand so you can receive. The just shall live by faith. So in order for you to get the importance on tithing i'll give you some N.T. scriptures on this matter

1 Timothy 6:17-19                 17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8       6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

And THE WORDS OF THE LORD HIMSELF.

Luke 6:38                  Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

No. He didn't make it a commandment. Just as He won't make you come to church every Sunday, and on Biblestudy night and praise and worship services. Why? Because He wants you to do it by faith and with love.

Hello Armorbearer,

I see that you're new, so WELCOME!


We're happy to have you with us, and I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite.

I think that I've said more than two cents worth on this topic already, but I would like to point out some basics Under GRACE, as opposed to the LAW.

1 - JESUS CHRIST was born under the LAW, lived under the LAW, and died under the LAW. JESUS CHRIST finished the Perfect Work of Salvation on the CROSS and changed the entire world in the most important and precious event in the history of mankind. JESUS CHRIST didn't disclose what the CROSS meant during HIS Life, and the impact of the CROSS wasn't revealed until GOD revealed it to the Apostle Paul.

2 - A tithe was a Jewish tax, and it wasn't voluntary. It was a forced DUTY.

3 - Good works by Christians are judged by GOD for "REWARDS" that are over and above Salvation, but good works are burned up as useless if they are done as a duty, for personal recognition, or for any reason other than LOVE.

4 - Giving should be cheerful, completely voluntary, not a duty, and out of nothing but LOVE. Otherwise, GOD burns it up as useless and doesn't consider it good.

5 - Many Christians give 30% or more of their income to the LORD'S WORK, the poor, and various charities. If they give to get their name on a building or in the newspaper, GOD burns it up. If they gave only 10% of their income because they thought that they had to, GOD would burn it up as useless. It must be only out of LOVE before GOD will recognize it as good.

6 - We are not under the Law. We are under Grace. GOD loves a cheerful giver who gives in LOVE, and that's all HE will accept as being good. Everything else is burned up. All "GOOD WORKS" must be under the same conditions. If you think about this, it all makes sense. GOD wants us to LOVE HIM because we want to LOVE HIM. GOD wants us to GIVE and do GOOD WORKS because we LOVE HIM and want to. THIS IS GRACE! - NOT LAW!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

HELLO Blackeyedpeas
 
     http://My new friend in Christ.  Grace and peace unto you.

    It sound like we agree on this matter. The only thing I failed to express is your motives for giving. People can do the right thing for the wrong reason. Yes I agree, Love, must be the center of why all good deeds should be manifested.

     But just to make sure we're clear, are you saying that tithing is important or not? Should we give when it comes time to that part of the service? I'm my eyes, and I believe it is somewhere in the scriptures that, when I give, it is a part of worship to God.
I'm not getting into deeds that are done outside of the church. And things that you do for someone in need. I'm just talking about tithing. Nothing else. Tithing by faith. Not out of obligation.

Amen!

Brother, I don't mean to upset anyone with this, but many will anyway because of what they've been taught all of their lives. BUT, here goes anyway:

1 - Tithing is NOT important at all, mainly because it doesn't apply and it doesn't exist.

2 - Tithing was a Jewish mandatory tax under the Law of Moses. There was NOTHING voluntary or cheerful about it at all.

3 - What's important under the GRACE of GOD is cheerful, voluntary giving out of LOVE for GOD and others. The amount and percentage is really a moot issue that's between the giver and GOD. It's not good and acceptable to GOD unless it is given cheerfully out of LOVE. It's not ironic that when giving is cheerful, out of LOVE, and as GOD has enabled - it's many times much more than 10%. BUT, we must remember that it's burned up if it's done for bragging, personal recognition, or for the wrong reasons. The wrong reasons would include "AS A DUTY".

4 - Reference your comments about tithing being a part of your worship of GOD, it's not. If you think about this - would it be worship if it was forced and mandatory? Worship, THANKS, and PRAISE are out of LOVE for GOD and no other reason. If these things were forced or mandatory, they would be something else and need to be renamed to maybe something like homage and toll.

5 - JESUS CHRIST made many statements under the LAW to the JEWS. One needs to remember that JESUS CHRIST was and is the MESSIAH and the ANOINTED KING OF THE JEWS. HIS own rejected HIM, but HE will not be denied HIS RIGHTFUL THRONE. HE will take it at HIS appointed time and rule and reign over the earth from the Throne of David in Jerusalem for 1,000 years. Israel will accept HIM at HIS SECOND COMING, and HE will also restore Israel. Regarding giving outside the church, JESUS CHRIST said that giving food, drink, clothing, etc. to the poor was as giving directly to HIM. Many of the things that JESUS CHRIST said during HIS FIRST COMING were to and for the Jews, and many more things pertained to the KINGDOM that the Jews are still waiting for. Christians aren't waiting for an Earthly KINGDOM because we already belong to a HEAVENLY KINGDOM and are MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. Christians recognize and firmly believe in the perfect Sacrifice that's already been made and the Finished Work of Salvation on the CROSS by JESUS CHRIST.

Brother, my intent was certainly not to make anyone angry with this, rather to simply tell the truth. Many of the things that JESUS CHRIST said during HIS FIRST COMING was also to all of us. The same is true for the entire BIBLE being profitable for us. As Christians, our hopes and Promises from GOD are much greater than the hopes and Promises of the Jews who rejected CHRIST. I'd like to mention just a couple more things for thought. JESUS CHRIST rescued us from the curse of sin and death, so do we love HIM by percentages? Is our giving just in Church, and is it only with money? How about our time, effort, and labor - are they acceptable to GOD? Bluntly, many churches want us to believe that tithing still applies, and giving only counts in church. Many of them are poor stewards of the money that's given, and they use the money for things that GOD would not approve of. The truth is that tithing does NOT apply, and giving DOES apply outside the church.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

I think we are all in agreement here but missing each other.

Armorbearer.  We all agree that tithing is not important when looking at the grand scheme of salvation and our soul.  I think we will also agree that tithing is important for the "operation" of our local churches.

BEP.  One thing to note is that yes you were correct that tithing was a "mandate" in the OT.  However God never intended it to be a burden.  There were two different sorts of laws that God created, those that honor Him and we should follow lovingly and He intended us to follow lovingly, and those He created because of sins that man created, ie slavery.  Before the Laws of Moses there was tithing and God did not have any rules upon it.  So obviously man was having problems and God came down and dictated that a tithe of 10%...which is what was given joyfully before the Law so that was acceptable to man and to God. 

And as to Armorbearer's comment of tithing being a part of his worship to God, it is part of mine too.  I gladly give 10%+ to God as part of my worship to God, just as Abel was joyfulling going to give the "first fruit" as part of worship to God I too give joyfully of what God has given me.  Just because there is a law to mandate something does not mean that it can no longer be a part of worship, if it is a burden then I agree it is not part of worship, but if it no longer a burden and you look upon it as a joy and way to show your love and thanks to God then how can one say it is not part of worship?  Law regulating it or not?

Again personally I think we are all on the same page, just sorta talking past each other.

Good Morning Everyone!

In that GIVING IS IMPORTANT for the right reasons, we are all on the same sheet of music. There's one thing we haven't added to the discussion that I want to mention for thought. Your local building you call church that is made with human hands IS NOT THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. This is why appropriate GIVING out of LOVE that GOD appreciates exists outside of that building.

THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is ancient and ETERNAL. It exists wherever there are born-again believers trying to serve GOD. The building they are members of is ALIVE, and CHRIST HIMSELF is the HEAD. The work of this LIVING CHURCH is wherever GOD leads throughout the world. This CHURCH whoever is NOT of this world. GOD leads the members of HIS CHURCH to do a huge variety of work, and there is work that pleases GOD for everyone - rich, poor, young, old, healthy, ill, and all. The places where the work takes place is everywhere. We gather in various kinds of assemblies in man-made structures for worship, Bible Study, encouragement, fellowship, and strengthening each other in CHRIST. Should you cheerfully give to this local assembly? YES - MOST CERTAINLY!

We were "QUICKENED" (Translated) into this living and Eternal BODY at the moment our our Salvation. This is an incredibly beautiful fact and Promise of GOD. This beautiful TRUTH should color our thoughts about every portion of our lives.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Amen on all accounts :D

I Corinthians 16:2 says, "Upon the first day of the week, let every man lay by him in store as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."  II Corinthians 9:7 says, "Every man according as he purposeth in his heartm si ket gun give; not grudgingly nor of necessity; for God loveth a cheerful giver."

Those two verses explain  the New Testament principle of giving; therefore, the motive of the heart in God's sight is the most important factor in His sight concerning giving.  You can give all your money to Him, but it will profit you nothing unless you want to give it to Him out of a heart of love!  There is no minimum or maximum amount of money to give to the Lord, for He cares about the motives of your heart more than He does about the amount you give!  Love for Him and His Word is the most important thing in His sight!

I believe that Phoenix means , that tithing is a requirement under the Law and that if   you didn't tithe , you were stealing from God. Paul does tell us about grace giving in his letters, and believe that the Law didn't end until Acts 28 , because they were still keeping the Law in Acts 20: 21.

Tithing has being on my heart for sometime and you folks here might have answer a few questions for me. Tell me if I am wrong, of course I have being praying about this as well. I am looking at taking my tithing and put it back into my ministry in which I am an Evangelist. I travel preach the word as well sing, some church's give me an love offered but not all, therefor I have to pay it all out of my pocket in which God bless me with that. So would I be wrong if I was to use my tithing in my own ministry? The last two church's that I was involved in I feel like have missed used the tithing and not put it were it should have being going to. I am looking at doing a lot more for my ministry but in doing so I have to have the funds, and there is only two ways to get it: 1 Ask, Seek, Knock.  2. Tithing

You would not be alone in putting your own money back into your ministry. I have known many a pastor and evangelist that has done just that. As has been said tithing as the Bible truly describes it is no longer tithing in the New Testament. It is now simply giving according to that which God places it in our hearts to give. It is not necessarily just 10 per cent as many want to think. Sometimes it may be less and many times it may be a whole lot more.

Thank You Pastor Rogers. As I sit here tonite at 10:46pm I hear a lot of people partying it up  I Thank God that I can sit here tonite and party with the one who got me all away from the world of partying, I like being drunk on Jesus any old day. May God Bless you all in the new year of 2009.

Many churches and groups of Christians have a different kind of party tonight. Coffee will be the strongest beverage available at these parties. The music will be Hymns of Worship and Praise. The subject matter will be GOD'S WORD AND JESUS CHRIST! There is a BETTER HOPE than this world has, and Christians already have THIS HOPE IN THEIR HEARTS!

Love In Christ,
Tom


Romans 5:20-21 NASB  The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

preachervern.

I do not feel you would be wrong in putting your tithe into your own ministry.  However always becareful in that you do not get complacent in your tithe...which would be easy to do if your tithe was going back into your "paycheck".  Continue to write the check and put it in.  You may also say that you are taking your tithe and then from your ministry do something specific with it.  If your tithe for a month was only $100 then instead of putting it into your ministry to pay for the next revival, or whatever, take that $100 and do something specific with it from your ministry, like buy a needy family a holiday meal, or give it to a specific mission field.  That way you are still giving your tithe, and it is going to your ministry, but then from your ministry you are doing something specific with it.  That way you will continue to feel that obligation to tithe to your ministry.

Either way you would not be wrong in tithing to your own minstry.

God bless you brother.

It's been my finding that handing one's so-called tithe over to organized religion is, in most cases, a robbery of God given that most church organizations consume the largest portion of what's handed over to them into their facilities, lawn care, staff salaries, etc., etc., and only the leftovers used for benevolent outreaches to meet the needs of fellow believers.

SwJr

What do you consider "organized religion"? Would that include any group of people that organize together into a local assembly and serve God through one structure that they built for that purpose? Do you think that your meetings should be within your own home instead where you can completely control all that is said and done? Can you fit 100 to 300 people inside of your home?

I do realize that many times way to much money is wasted on making such a building to be far more elaborate than is necessary. Yet there are many still that do not spend more than is necessary and make them fitting a space to hold their respective numbers and do in fact do God's work from that building.

Your finding would mean nothing to me. You can earmark your offerings in how they will be spent or give directly to the charity of your choice. If you don't like the way your local assembly spends money, go to a different local assembly. It appears that all you want to do is make a blanket condemnation. I might not approve of the way that you spend your own money, but that wouldn't be any of my business. The same would be true in reverse. You determine how you will spend your money and I'll do the same. So, there isn't a problem.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 1:1 ASV  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.