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Link to Article (http://www.nbc4.tv/education/2493104/detail.html)

What do you think?  Should she be allowed to start the club?

Results of the poll so far:

Question: Should a California high school student be allowed to start a Caucasian Club?

Yes, if there are other clubs like the Black Student Union and Asian Club she should be allowed to.  87%

No. There should be no clubs targeting any ethnic group.  11%

No. Only minorities should be able to have clubs targeting an ethnic group.  2%

Way to go, 5020.   8)    Good article.  Thanks.


I looked at the results so far--130,000 polled so far!!

87% say yes, she should be able to have her club.  hehe.


Good point!   ;D

No, but not for any of the reasons give in the poll.

The reason a Caucasian club, or equivalent, would be unacceptable there (or here) as that Caucasians are have been historically and (to a reduced degree still are) those on the upside of the power inbalance.  If and when genuine equality is arrived at, and racism truly eliminated from socienty, then everyone can celebrate their racial and cultural background on an equal footing.

Until that time, it's up to those on the upside of the power inbalance to show a degree of humility towards those who have suffered in the past and present from that inbalance.

Which is (numerically) the majority and which the minority is irrelevent - see S. Africa.  It's about power.  The fact that the options in the article don't recognise that indicates that either they haven't understood the situation (pretty sad) or they were too lazy to try and word an option (also pretty sad).

The reason a Caucasian club, or equivalent, would be unacceptable there (or here) as that Caucasians are have been historically and (to a reduced degree still are) those on the upside of the power inbalance.  If and when genuine equality is arrived at, and racism truly eliminated from socienty, then everyone can celebrate their racial and cultural background on an equal footing.
Quote by Ebia
____________________________________________________

Then there never will be one; for I don't see society changing to that degree before the Lord comes again. Which is soon.

When people ask me my nationality, I just say I am caucasion-American. HeHe.  

Yours in Christ.  Roy.

It is this simple, if you want equality, you treat everyone equal. No special clubs, no special people, we are all equal.

OR...

We can label people minorities, as in not part of the population, and give them clubs and scholarships and all that fun stuff because the white men defile our lands and raped out women. White man has always had power, and the minorities couldn’t help it, right Edia? The could never fight back or anything!  It isn’t like African tribes sold their dark skinned brothers as slaves to the white man, right? Or that Native Americans commonly joined the white men of one countries, so they could team up and slaughter the Indians and white men of other countries, right? Or that the Indians outnumbered the British 10 to one, but choose not to fight for their homeland, right? Oh, wait...

I'm really not sure what you're suggesting here.  How is the extent to which different people fought back against white invasion relevent?

The point is, that in Europe, North America and Australia white people still have the effective power and have done some terrible things in the past to create and maintain that power (different in each case).

I'll talk about Australia, because I'm slightly more likely to get the detail right:
First the British arrived, and created a legal fiction that the aborigines didn't exist.  This continued until very recently - aborigines have only been counted in the census since 1967, let alone been given similar rights to the rest of the population. 30 years ago children were still being removed from their families.

Then, trying to avoid the slave situation, they set up the "White Australia" policy, where non-whites simply were not let in.
By the time immigration was opened up to non-europeans, an extreamly racist society had been created.

A lot has improved since then - Australia (particularly the big cities) is now probably the most multi-cultural country in the world, but just saying people are equal doesn't make it so.  People have to feel equal, and have equal opportunities, and that means recognising the hurt of the past and trying to do something about it.

As far as the non-white immigrants are concerned, Australians are getting there, but there is still a good deal of racism around.  As far the the aboriginal population is concerned, the increadably damage that was done will take many generations to heal.  In both situations, it behoves those with the privaleges to act sensitively to avoid causing more hurt.

I'm trying to say that if people want equality, they can't be claiming unequal treatment.

In which case they can never catch up - you just preserve the status quo.

Exactly

What exactly are you getting at here? You seem to have an understanding of American history that you gained as a child.

Black people are to blame for being enslaved? Native Americans are at fault for not slaughtering the British colonists? They had much more to contend with than the British, BTW. By the time the Mayflower landed, the Spanish had already exterminated thousands of entire tribes.

Is my sarcasm to subtle for you people to grasp? My point is, you can’t pen everything on “the man” Even if you could, those people are dead and gone. I’d like to see something documenting the thousands of tribes the Spanish killed before The Mayflower landed.

Stop making excuses, Minorities have tried to pen all the guilt on Whiteman. They blame all problems, past and present, on the whiteman. I Say, That was then, and this is now, we should leave the dead buried! BUT, if you are going to bring it up, as Edia did, then we have to give Credit where credit is due, in the interest of “equality.”

This is true....

No tibby you're special, really.  You even get a super star sticker.   :)

BTW you do know that her name is eBia right?  You've speeled it wrong several times now and the keys are nowhere near each other.  If you are having a problem distinguishing between a B and a D that would explain a lot to me.  All joking aside.

First of all anyone who knows humans knows there will NEVER be a time when everyone "feels" equal.  There's a good reason for that.  Everyone is not equal, never have been and never will be.  The 6' 5" will always be able to reach things the 5' guy can't thus making them not equal.  Just to put it in it's most basic terms.

I really don't see why because someone's relatives were picked on by my relatives that I should sit in the corner with a dunce cap while they have a little "group" that complains about me.  It's stupid through and through.  The idea of people celebrating there individual backround keeps them seperate.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?  What's the point of democracy if the minority ends up having the biggest voice?

If people want to be equal then stop yammering about things most people have no real part in.  Case in point, if americans want to be "equal" they need to drop they're bogus titles like "african-american", "asian-american" etc etc.  I'm white your black both americans.  It's that simple.  I don't run around claiming to be a greek-american (which I have every right to according to everyone else) because it's STUPID.  I have little to NO affiliation to Greece other than blood.

I am an american, I celebrate american holidays.  If I want to celebrate something from my blood heritage I don't need to make sure everyone else knows about it.  If I were to live in a town where there was a high population of greeks who wanted to celebrate something, whatever.  It doesn't need to become some stupid political thing.  Really the whole PC business is so stupid it makes me sick.  I refuse to use terms like african american because it's dumb and last I checked segregation was considered wrong.  Now everyone wants to use terms and such that segregate them.  People are so stupid.

<end rant>

Hmmm.  My question is:  'are we starting these clubs 'just because' or what?  So much seperation.  Maybe we shouldn't focus on a secondary analysis about the flesh.  The world will always be the world, but as Christians...we are of spirit and race should not matter.  Well this race is doing this and that, so let's all do it because if they can, we should have the same rights and on and on if not let's get a lawyer...?  Well, if someone wants to start a club for the sake of the best interests of that club, go for it.  If someone is starting a club just to purposely 'test' people or play the 'we have a right' game, well...what do you peeps think?  I don't see color or races, I just see a bunch of humans that the Lord wants to love...honestly.  Coming from and Asian background and tourmented in school with racial slurs, 'rocks'...yes...ROCKS THROWN AT ME, and people driving by trying to emulate the Asian language and make fun of me and African Americans calling me 'chink'...it's hard to forget...but it's easy to forgive.  I'm only 'renting' here...my real home is in heaven, no biggy...

Maybe it's not the issue that the American indians could've have done this and that and the Africans sold this and that.  Maybe the point is, if there was never some sort of conflict...maybe the a situation of 'well, the American Indians could have fought back'...well, they never would've had to fight...would they?  It's almost like saying 'well, that's too bad if you can't defend yourselves.'...sounds like a dictatorship ya think?  So, if America was invaded by non caucasians ans took over the land..let's just say IF...that means:  "Well, that's too bad if the caucasians couldn't defend themselves."  Strange thing, a situation like THAT would be treated as 'an invasion'...yet in the past...oh, wait a minute...

I love all races, even if they don't love me<---WWJD...:)

I used Native American to talk about Native American's. When I said Indians, I'm talking about Indian's. Hindu's, holy Cows, Elephants, The Kind and I, THAT India. Even Gandhi suggested his country really need to stand up and fight! He said they greatly outnumber the English, they can take them easy. But, they didn't. Stop trying to shift the blame.

No, it shouldn't have happen. But guess what, it did. There is no point blaming the White English descendants of America for what an empire did many years ago. The Blacks today, that are NOT the ones is slavery. They never where. The Native Americans today, that had NO land taken from them! Why should the young generations have to be forced to put up with the problems of the older?

GO TIBBY!  GO TIBBY!

(http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/banana.gif)

I love that darn banana ;D

I always want to sing "It’s Peanut butter Jelly time!" when I see it... long story... ;)

  They shouldn't have to, it's stupid.  At the same time, other's shouldn't have to have the mentality like 'well, if they can do this and that, I can too'...that just causes more division, ya think?

  Sometimes we tend to mix patriotism with Christianity...some don't know the differance.  Some think that Christianity is an American 'thing' when indeed it's a world thing.  Some people feel that things should center around particular countires...and it shouldn't.  Christianity is seperation from the worldly. Well, i'll let you have the last word tabby...not looking for a racial issue here.  If I was, i'd say something like 'Jesus isn't caucasian'.  The fact of that is TRUE, but Jesus came to save the gentiles and everyone..so race doesn't matter.  God Bless.  

Your right, race doesn't matter. That is my point. Race shouldn't matter. But the people who seem to say race shouldn't matter the most are the same people who make the biggest deal out of races. Everything is a race issue. If a Blackman gets a speeding ticket for going 55 in a school zone, during school hours, and it becomes a race issue. I know race doesn't matter, tell that to guys like the not-so-reverend Jesse Jackson! Tell that to OJ. You have all these influential people who can’t do what they need to because they might offend someone! It is crazy. In America, at least, the oppressed ones are only bringing it upon them selves.

I agree with you, like the KKK as well and those who dislike imigrants who are not caucasian but mostly like the one's that are more caucasian.  I spoke to some people concerning 'immigrants' being Latino and having 1,000,000 kids and being on welfare.  When I mentioned a Russian family coming to America 'immigrant'...they were more accepting them as opposed to the non-caucasian immigrants.  Strange, even if there are a bunch of Russian immigrants living on welfare...it seems to be 'ok'?  It's everyone who complains, not just the non caucasian folks and it should stop especially in the Christian communities.  At the same time, I should be able to walk down the street without someone driving by yelling racial comments or mere strangers asking me 'what I am' AND the same goes for a caucasian walking down a street as well and some 'non caucasian' yells out some racial slangs...that's just not right.  Heheh, I had a situation like that from this guy I never met before.  We were over at a friends house and he said, 'I thought you were Hawaiian.  What are you anyway?'  I said to him...'does it matter?'.  He gave me dirty look.  Hahahah, you dont' see me walking around pondering if someone is part French or maybe a bit of Irish or some Italian influence, lol.  I guess it goes both ways, lol.  This is my actual experience..not something I saw on TV...this stuff actually happens and has happened to me.  And there really shouldn't be any finger pointing towards and 'race'...it's everyone.  Doesn't bother me, I grew up with it and i'm not in gradeschool anymore.

Wow, OJ and Jesse Jackson...where did that come from?  How about Martin Luther King who loved everyone and was more towards true equality not racial favoritism?  He didn't want rebellion, he just wanted peace..and he was murdered for those beliefs.  It seems that you've targeted OJ and Jesse Jackson..why?  Curious...
You know who Ted Bundy was?  Jack the Ripper?  John Wayne Gacy?  Napolian?  Adolf Hitler?  There are alot of people put in places of power who are 'bad'...not all of them are Black, lol.  :)  

I'm gonna start a club, it's called the Human Race club...and all are welcome...:)

I remimber when having the lastword meant you actually had the last word ;D


And this has what do to with anything? Again, you are tryin to pin it on white people. We arn't even talking about evil vs. good here. We are talking about people in minority groups who are only making things more unequal, all the while saying they want equality. I never called Jesse or OJ evil. They are pushing the race issue mroe then most racists are! I wasn't saying they are examples of "evil non-whites." Stop trying to twist things around.

The KKK first started as a group that attacked all non-baptist, non-white, and/or non-southern. Not just Blacks. Those after school specials leave that part out, don't they? They forget to talk about the "carpitbagger" who were cruelly brutalized in the streets, or the Catholic Churches that were burned to the ground. They just make it into a race issue, leading to more equality. The KKK is much more then that. They are a wacked out version of Fundamentalism that gives even the Fundies a bad name! They are an evil bunch of men, but why should all white Fundamentalism be made to pay for the actions of a few mislead nutjobs? They shouldn't, that is the point!

Then why should all minority groups be made to pay for actions of a few mislead nutjobs who use race as an excuse?  That's also the point.  For example, i'm...i guess you can call it that...a 'minority', yet I dont' indulge in favoritsm among minority groups for jobs, school, financial, etc.  Yet, people feel that i'm may abuse the system due to my 'race'.  Again, as I've already said...i'm not like that.  Unfortunately, due to propaganda and television, i'm also made to pay for what other minority groups do as well.  Is this right?  I don't think so.  This is called 'stereotype'.  So, automatically, i'm placed in this stereotype that you mentioned that you, if you're caucasian, are placed in because of what the past whites have done and so on.  So, as these minority groups perpetuate their own stereotype and others are quick to welcome the propaganda...i'm put into the mix and so are you.  We're in the same boat, lol.  It's not right.  I'm not twisting anything, lol.  I don't even know you.  If I did, i'd invite you over to my house for dinner no matter what your views are on anything, no biggy.  Peace...    
 

What are you having?  ;D

No, you should not be forced to suffer for what minority groups do. That is the point. They need to stop waving the eqaulity flag and start treating everyone, even the white, male, heterosexual, native born Amercians, like equals! They need to stop saying white America owns them for Hitler and the KKK and slavery, and start behaving like we are in the same boat, like we are all one nation. Melting pots are where we combine things, not devide them.

I really feel as if if someone is white and didn't own slaves, and doesn't treat other races differently, then why should he have to answer for something that happened so long ago? Is there never going to be a day when the white man is forgiven? I thought equality was about being the same as others, not trying to drive a wedge between us. This post may not be eloquent, but read what my message is, ignore the semantics involved....For a Christian forum I am very surprised at how critical some of you are...

Oklahoma Howdy to moira3,

I think that most of what you are seeing here is sarcastic wit between friends.

I'm Scotch Irish Cherokee short ugly Christian American Okie. I couldn't find a club for us, so I'll settle with my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and be done with it.   :D

Love in Christ,
Tom

Here's something interesting...try to start a Christian club in a public school...I know that is somewhat off-topic, but I think that would start even more controversy than any other club would...am I right???

 :D  You're right. After all, somebody might see a Holy Bible or hear a prayer. It would cause a horrible stir, even though there is a lengthy history of using public buildings for church services.

In Christ,
Tom

Sweet Moira, just because are seem arguementative and mean in this thread doesn't meen we feel that way about it eachother, only the issue. We do not take this personally. We are agresive about this one issue, it doesn't mean 5020 or Saved or Myself dislikes shugotenshi or ebia, we just disagree. Please, do not confuse our zealous debate with hatred. We are brothers and sisters in Christ, and though we disagree, we do not forget that.

I know at least one government school close to here that does have a Christian club.  (It has an Islamic one as well, I believe.)

I think you will find that today there are very few Christian clubs in public schools. I'm surprised people don't try to get the US currency changed, or the oath the President utter, "So help me God." Maybe I'm uninformed, but it seems like in the past two years there has been a great secular movement to remove all traces of God from public places....

Why Not????

Brother Love :)

  I guess the thing is that 'caucasian' is kind of vague (Russian, Franch, Irish, German, Italian, etc.)  I remember in Highschool, we had the French club, German club and so on.  Each club studied the particular culture.  Don't quote me on this, but weren't there initially 3 'races' (Japheth, Ham and Shem).  From there, they mixed and formed influences of the 3 initial races...like I said, please don't quote me on this, lol.  Someone who is pure Spanish is somewhat caucasian in appearance and somone who is Mexican is somewhat darker.  They speak the same language, aside from suttle differances and slangs.  I know a lot of Asians, and there are quite a few who have very light colored skin but others from the Philipines are darker.  Both being Asians, but there are migration issues here.  Even in some Philipino's I know, I see some darker and some lighter.  Is having a caucasian club in relation to skin color or a club of a certain culture?  An American caucasian is differant than an English caucasian.  The English culture is quite a bit defferant from the American culture.  So, what would those in this caucasian club do?  If it was an American caucasian club, that's fine...but what would they do in this club?  I'm thinking maybe the study of American history and achievements and so forth.  Well, that's one of things I would do if I was in charge of a caucasian club.  

America allows us the right to form 'clubs', and I have to abide with that...no biggy.  I'm for it, GO FOR IT!!!  But, are these students actually going to study something in this club or are they just forming a club 'just to form a club'?  Even if you put 'food' in the mix, there really isn't any traditional, original caucasian food.  The French (caucasians) would probably eat French food...am I right?  In America, caucasians don't have their own food...they and we all eat what we like which is mixed of many cultures.  maybe the club would be an American caucasian club, that would make more sense.  But again, what would the Amrican caucasian club study or do to make it  a club of it's own?  There are minorites who do, have, earn, work in similar situations as caucasians and there are also poverty stricken caucasians and minorities and criminal minorities and caucasians and so on.  I'm not trying to start a flame, so relax everyone, lol.  I'm just curious what the caucasian club would do?  Like I said, i'm for it, let em do it...but what would they do?  Any insight?

I guess if I were to form the Philipino club, we would talk about and stufy that various food, clothing, martial arts (yes, the Filipino's have their own martial arts, lol) and so on.  All would be invited...not only Filipino's.  We'd also study the language and the different variations that differ from each 'city' (there are sooooo many variations of the Filipino language).  Hence...the Filipino club.  The 'Filipino' club is NOT studying or brought together by skin color, it's a study of culture.  I wouldn't call it the 'yellow' club or the 'brownish' club.  I guess that's why i'm kind of puzzled by the caucasian club thing.  Does anyone here feel that 'caucasian' is a culture of it's own?  I'm confused.

Sorry about the long post, and please...i'm not trying to point fingers or anything i'm just curious about other people's insight...'conversation'.  Peace...

I read the article more in depth and it actually sounds pretty cool.  going to museums adn doing fundraisers, sounds like a worth while and assertive club.  Two thumbs up...:)

I agree

Brother Love :)